You do have to read Susskind's book on the holographic principle. He does say at the end there is a bit of a problem with resolving the issue of the singularity and what happens there. I think there is a duality between the data on a stretched horizon and the singularity. I think this might have to do with the conformal symmetry flow of how symmetries on certain scales are buried on other scales. This is an aspect os Zamalodichov's renormaliaztion group flow.
LC
Hi Lawrence,
I did read it, and I think in the closing comments he doesn't mention the issue of singularities, but the issue that the BH entropy is each time calculated by a trick, and we don't have the understanding of the connection between entropy and area. This is in conformity with the point I expressed earlier. Susskind defines the stretched horizon as "a fictitious membrane at Planckian distance from the horizon", which does something strange to information: records and re-radiates it, and in the same time allows it to pass. I have to disagree with this, because it leads to contradictions (even if they are "unobservable contradictions"), and because violates the equivalence principle.
But, like I said, I agree with you that there is a connection between singularities and entropy. I think that this connection is direct, rather than via a "stretched horizon". Unless instead of the stretched horizon we consider an equivalence class, something like a homology class. I hope I will return in a few months with a more precise description of what I said.
Best regards,
Cristi Stoica
The last paragraph Susskind talks about the infalling observer who crosses the horizon as a "big hole." So he is talking about the interior in general, but of course that includes the singularity.
Your insight on a homology I think is right on. I attach a paper I got published a couple of months ago. This involves the counting of states on a black hole horizon. I have been working on how these states are dual to interior states according to elliptic curve cohomology.
Cheers LCAttachment #1: Crowell_EJTP_counting_states_in_ST.pdf
Lawrence, thanks for the attachment. Now I think it is more clear to me what you meant.
Cristi
The literature in black holes is open to many objections.
In section 8 of Non-redundant and natural variables definition of heat valid for open systems bogus claims done in black hole 'thermodynamics' are corrected. It is not true that black holes violate the second law of thermodynamics. The so-named generalized second law is unneeded, apart from confounding the production term (proportional to volume) with a flow term (proportional to area)!
It is not true that "black holes also destroy information as they munch on matter, violating the laws of quantum mechanics". In the first place, as shown recently in General relativity as geometrical approximation to a field theory of gravity the metric formulation associated to general relativity is valid only when one avoids higher order corrections due to gravitons. This is somewhat similar to geometrical optics arising as an approximation to physical optics.
The spacetime singularities associated to general relativity are only apparent and results from applying general relativity beyond its field of validity. General relativity is obtained when (i) one ignores the contribution of gravitons to the source of the gravitational field and approximates it by Tab (the right-hand-side of Einstein equations) and (ii) one approximates the field-theoretic effective metric by the general-relativistic metric.
In the second place, it can be shown that the correct field theory of gravity can be quantized as other ordinary field theory.
Hello Juan,
I agree totally about your words. Indeed we cannot violate our second law. It is the same for the QM and the relativity, they are rational those extrapolations. Indeed we cannot destroy a BH and still less the informations, ultim. Now it exists a lot of informations, and thus a pure classment of these informations become an universal essential. The encodings, the synchronizations, the sortings are very complexs and this taxonomy can be correlated witht the volumes of the pure serie of uniqueness.
The continuous metric and the finite groups also are essential at my humble opinion.
The bosonic fields can be axiomatized with the fermions and their encoding of evolution respecting the sortings and the synchro.
My equations help when we consider a different sense of rot.for the bosons and the fermions. So we can correlate the fields, the entropy and the mass.
mcosV=Constant and E=(c³o³s³)m.with a serie of uniquenss and with m mass,c linear velocity,o orbital speed,s spinal speed,V Volume of a physical 3D sphere.The generality can be analyzed for a number of spheres with the same universal logic. For the respect of all proportions, we must accept the 3D and this scales in meter.
Regards
But Giddings has identified a key, and debatable, assumption in those locality arguments: "All of that assumes that there is some pre-existing spacetime that defines what it means for things to travel faster than the speed of light or not."
While people are being open minded about reexamining fundamental assumptions, I'd like to suggest that a reexamination of key assumptions about the fundamental nature of time is in order, and in fact long overdue. Some hopefully cogent thoughts on the topic will be found in a recent essay titled 'Toward a Helpful Paradigm for the Nature of Time,' which will be found here.
www.CIGTheory.com
a new interpretation
singularities explained: pure Matter (black hole)
pure Space (100% Dark Chocolate Energy)
One Equation: MTS
Duality resolved. more... see www.CIGTheory.com
Experimentally verifiable.
nothing more to offer - out of my thinking stage / please take it from here
website may have to come down soon .... tired.... confused....
THX - doug
Christi,
I forgot this thread.
Well , about the BH ? I must insist on the fact that it is a sphere with a mass, a volume, rotations, rules, propoerties....if they are black, they are reasons considering the relativity and the light and its 3D perception. Like a person who has studied a lot about the sigularities and this entropy.I suppose that you insert limits in your domains. The duality is rational. Not need of paradoxal extrapolation loosing their foundamentals.
These BH have emissions and absorptions. They sort and synchronize like all spheres.If you say that nothing can escape, you are false.Perhaps the Hawking Radiations can help when we insert relativistic domains. The aim is not to add the ideas but to understand the generality Christi.
If people wants to understand what is the entropy and its distribution by the singularities and its codes. So the roads, deterministic must be inserted !!!
The rest is vain after all.
spherically yours and in 3D !!!
Christi,Lawrence, I become completely crazzy you know.My paranoia and my headackes are numerous. I have meds but I become crazzy.
ps I ask me if the spheres of a galaxy at the cosmological scale are correlated with the quantum spheres of this cosmological system.The singularities and the entropy are correlated also with the planck walls.
Probably that each galaxy possesses each own quantum entanglement. It is relevant considering the volumes and the rotations, if the number of the serie of uniquity is considered with the biggest rationalism. The proprotions can be analyzed.
The volumes and mainly the main central spheres, are at the wall and possesses the entropy by combinations mass/light. If each galaxy possesses its own spherical volumes. So the quantum entanglement in its pure finite serie is correlated inside the specific galaxy and its own entanglement also.
The claculation of the central volumes and the central main universal volume can be made with relevance. The princimple of equivalence.....
Regards
The time is a constant of evolution, a duration implied by the rotating spheres. The time is the time after all. Is it important to see if this time is reversible? No of course because the time is purely irreversible in its pure generality.The time space evolution is linked but we cannot return in the past ! Perhaps that we can decrease the duration, so our internal clocks, so we can go in the future, but the probelm is that we cannot return at home !It is essential considering the spherization of the spacetime. The time is not a real dimension. But a pure duration implied by the motions, here the rotations of spheres, quantical and cosmological. The time is not reversible. It is a constant of evolution.
I beleive that the bosons cannot pass c, the fermions perhaps considering that they turn in the other sense....
Regards
OK - let's have a vote
Raise your hand if you believe in CIG Theory.
OK - hands down
Now, those that don't believe. Higher, I can't see you.
Well, there you have have, Scientific proof!
doug
Good morning Steve,
It is an interesting composition. The statement about black hole, 'The laws we use to describe the rest of space-time no longer apply inside black holes' may not be correct. Some rule of thumb or empirical laws of physics may not be applicable, but universal laws are applicable every where, even inside the black hole or for that mater inside elementary particles. Please advice, if mainstream physicists think otherwise.
May I request your evaluation on my essay on 5-dimensional universe at
http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/1326
I look forward to your comments and evaluation of the essay.
Thanks & Best Regards,
Vijay Gupta
Well generally speaking no "man's" comprehensibility of thermodynamics and physics don't necessarily apply inside the event horizon.
But we do know that the singularity within a black is so great that EVEN LIGHT cannot escape.
But here is my view and beliefs, for every black hole that exist there is a white hole that exist.
Black holes and white holes are two sides of the same coin In "man's comprehension" a black hole you fall into would actually be a white hole you escaped from in the past.
But WE MUST REALIZE that time is a mere concept and nothing more, time is a measurement system that we use to measure the order in which events and occurrences happen in existence, a mere manmade concept.
So, disregarding time, when your looking at an event horizon you are actually looking at a black hole through a white hole the "event horizon" your seeing is actually light escaping from the white hole.
So if you were to go beyond the "event horizon" and look back you'd see a white hole.
Quantum dynamics approaches Classical dynamics as the rate of matter (of traveling particles) approaches stillness (velocity = zero). At zero velocity, the two (quantum & classical theory) are indistinguishable. At velocity = c, matter becomes Space.
www.CIGTheory.com
Final Statement - CIG Theory -
Quantum dynamics approaches Classical dynamics as the rate of matter (of traveling particles) approaches pure stillness (velocity = zero). At zero velocity, the two (quantum & classical theory) are indistinguishable. At velocity = c, Matter becomes Space. In between is everything else [Dark Matter & Dark Energy & other variations of the "dark entities" (that term which represents all that inclusive of and in between Dark Matter & Dark Energy), Standard Model]. Further, the Quantum Gravity conundrum is resolved as the spacetime continuum [the various fields of gravitational matter (Dark Matter/Dark Energy/The gravities/Mass)] becomes the quantum particle [or at zero velocity, the classical black hole particle]. MTS being the equation, where M = Matter(s)(the extreme being a Black Hole), T = % "c" travel [forward vector (increasing rate) for Space / reverse vector (slowing) for Black Hole), and S = Space]. And, the Fourth Law, not herein repeated (but worth a read). This is CIG Theory. And, things are explained as a result of this interpretation of nature (double slit, horizon problem, red shift anomalies, expanding Universe among other things).
My Latest Thoughts: Why do large things move slower than small things?
Answer:
Larger things (i.e. planets) move slower than smaller things because unlike small faster things (i.e. electrons that turn into a more spatialy manifested entity), larger things can accumulate in a more massive matter form & remain large, since they, as a slow entity, do not manifest their spatial charachteristic as much as faster particles do. Slower things can accumulate into larger thing. Faster things can't, because they remain more spatial. This is why large things are slow, and small things are fast.
But even the largest thing is comprised of fast & small things! Go figure!
[Which came first, the fast or the small?]
www.CIGTheory.com (final answer)(Where does yor space come from?)
Farmers Almanac Predicts CIG Theory !
THX & Happy New Year !!!