Nature Has No Faithful Mathematical Representation by Roger Schlafly

Roger Schlafly

Joy Christian, your so-called disproof has been rebutted by Moldoveanu, Gill, and Grangier.

Roger Schlafly

Yes, Manin is a smart guy with many interesting things to say. Did you see anything to lead you to believe that he would agree or disagree with my essay?

Joy Christian

Roger Schlafly,

The mistakes, misconceptions, and straw-man arguments in all of the so-called rebuttals of my Disproof you have linked, have been systematically exposed and debunked, not only by me, but also by several other people, here, here, here, and in the attached pdf document. In essence, all arguments against my disproof so far have only been arguments from prejudice and ignorance, not science.

Nevertheless, if you point out to me just a single valid argument from any of these so-called rebuttals, I will reconsider my opinion that your assertion above is based on a prevalent but unjustified belief system, not on a rational and unbiased scientific investigation.Attachment #1: 27_Richard_said.pdf

pjackson

Roger

I thought Joy had quite convincingly disproved Gill (bivector error etc.) and previous attempts at falsification. http://arxiv.org/pdf/1203.2529.pdf Are there any later attempts not refuted?

I'm also interested in your views on Tom's excellent essay (and if you have time, mine too of course!) There are also some other excellent papers with disproof's or Bells theorem here which I haven't yet noticed you comment on, i.e. Sycamore and McEachern etc, including from information theory. Your response to those would be interesting.

I didn't recall your own proposition relied at all on Bell. Do advise if that's incorrect.

Peter

[deleted]

Roger. Your reply to my prior post please. Also, the objective is to have a seamless and undivided whole, as ultimate unification in physics combines, balances, and includes opposites. MATHEMATICS CANNOT COMBINE, BALANCE, AND INCLUDE OPPOSITES.

Time is ultimately dependent upon the integrated and interactive extensiveness of being, thought, and experience (and space). Time requires gravity. In the absence of gravity, we are literally out of touch with reality. Another physical fact that mathematics fails at.

The key here is to describe thought [fundamentally and generally] in conjunction with/relation to physics, force/energy, and sensory experience (in general). My essay does this. Mathematics cannot do this.

The reductionist and mathematical approaches are ultimately doomed in conjunction with the following:

The self represents, forms, and experiences a comprehensive approximation of experience in general by combining conscious and unconscious experience. (A great fact of physics too.)

Can you review and rate my essay please Roger?

Fred Diether

"All such experiments have disproved the hidden variable theories."

No. All such experiments (being quantum experiments) indicate that the predictions of QM are probably correct. Those experiments do not disprove hidden variable theories. It is false science to say that they do. It is also false science to say that the quantum experiments prove that QM is complete. They do not prove that.

Best,

Fred

Edwin Klingman

Dear Roger,

I agree with Fred that the experiments simply prove that quantum mechanics makes the correct predictions. They do *NOT* prove that Bell is correct or that quantum mechanics is complete. It is much more complicated than that.

I very much like your essay and hope to comment on it soon.

I also invite you to read my essay: The Nature of the Wave Function.

Best,

Edwin Eugene Klingman

[deleted]

1.I agree with Manin that physicists more inquisitive to mathematics than mahematicians to physics.

2. I agree with Wittgenstein:

6.21 Mathematical propositions express no thoughts.

6.211 In life it is never a mathematical proposition which we need,

but we use mathematical propositions only in order to infer

from propositions which do not belong to mathematics to others

which equally do not belong to mathematics.

(In philosophy the question "Why do we really use that word,

that proposition?" constantly leads to valuable results.)

6.22 The logic of the world which the propositions of logic show in

tautologies, mathematics shows in equations.

6.23 If two expressions are connected by the sign of equality, this

means that they can be substituted for one another. But

whether this is the case must show itself in the two expressions

themselves.

It characterizes the logical form of two expressions, that they

can be substituted for one another.

6.234 Mathematics is a method of logic.

6.2341 The essential of mathematical method is working with equations.

On this method depends the fact that every proposition

of mathematics must be self-intelligible.

6.24 The method by which mathematics arrives at its equations is

the method of substitution.

For equations express the substitutability of two expressions,

and we proceed from a number of equations to new equations,

replacing expressions by others in accordance with the equations

3.Roger, i am agree with you naturally.

Please don't forget please impartially evaluate my essay

Sincerely

Yuri

[deleted]

How are you Roger?

[deleted]

Roger,

Sorry, some refinements :

Physically speaking,John Bell showed that it was indeed possible to realize the EPR-experiment, when the two particles are emitted with definite spin directions, which are locally fixed at the decay. These directions, according to Bell,however, might be unknown to the experimentalist. He then showed that if we measure the spin of particle 1(natural number,sorry)along one direction, and the spin of particle 2 along another direction, the results will be correlated. For instance, if we measure the spin of both particles along the same direction, particle 2 will always have the spin down when particle 1 has the spin up.

Thus, they are correlated (or rather, anti-correlated).But if the spins are measured along different directions, the correlation will decrease.(Since Bell's discovery, a number of experimental tests have been performed successfully [by J Clauser and S Freedman (1972), A Aspect, J. Dalibard, and G Roger (1982), and G Weihs, Ch Simon, T Jennewein, H Weinfurter, and A Zeilinger (1998)],etc )...

Mathematically speaking, however, Bell' Nature has faithful mathematical representations in the form of complex numbers which can exist only in Hilbert complex vector space. Thus, iff somebody has alternative more advanced mathematics as well as he knows better Nature's own mathematical taste,it is naturally to ask to prove such sort of claim.Technically and experimentally.

Sergey Fedosin

If you do not understand why your rating dropped down. As I found ratings in the contest are calculated in the next way. Suppose your rating is [math]R_1 [/math] and [math]N_1 [/math] was the quantity of people which gave you ratings. Then you have [math]S_1=R_1 N_1 [/math] of points. After it anyone give you [math]dS [/math] of points so you have [math]S_2=S_1+ dS [/math] of points and [math]N_2=N_1+1 [/math] is the common quantity of the people which gave you ratings. At the same time you will have [math]S_2=R_2 N_2 [/math] of points. From here, if you want to be R2 > R1 there must be: [math]S_2/ N_2>S_1/ N_1 [/math] or [math] (S_1+ dS) / (N_1+1) >S_1/ N_1 [/math] or [math] dS >S_1/ N_1 =R_1[/math] In other words if you want to increase rating of anyone you must give him more points [math]dS [/math] then the participant`s rating [math]R_1 [/math] was at the moment you rated him. From here it is seen that in the contest are special rules for ratings. And from here there are misunderstanding of some participants what is happened with their ratings. Moreover since community ratings are hided some participants do not sure how increase ratings of others and gives them maximum 10 points. But in the case the scale from 1 to 10 of points do not work, and some essays are overestimated and some essays are drop down. In my opinion it is a bad problem with this Contest rating process. I hope the FQXI community will change the rating process.

Sergey Fedosin

Lorraine Ford

Roger,

I really like your essay even though I don't necessarily agree with all you say. To me, these are the important and interesting issues: what reality do the mathematical equations of physics represent; and what reality do the numbers found in nature represent.

Cheers,

Lorraine

[deleted]

Sergey G Fedosin is bombing entrants' boards with the same "Why your rating has dropped" message. They are all dated Oct. 4... same message.

WTH? I've seen one fine essay drop 89 (eighty-nine) positions, in "Community Rating" in the past 24 hours, and "Sergey's note" came BEFORE it plummeted. Hmm.

The vote/scaling of this contest is quite nebulous.

"Hackers Rule!", I suppose!

Well??? What else is one to think? The General Public is... Watching...

Zbigniew Modrzejewski

Roger,

It is important that your conclusion, Nature Has No Faithful Mathematical Representation, comes from a matematician.

My intuition had always told me that Reality (Nature) is not limited to being mathematical. It is beyond being either digital or analog.

It is neither digital nor analog. "digital" and "analog" we just project with our limited minds onto reality, as our "perception". We mentally project our mental limitations onto reality we experience. See: the problem of perception, in philosophy.

Instead of mathematics, New Physics should start using empirical testing of consciousness. Instead of mathematical quantities, New Physics should concentrate on qualities of mental experience.

Hope you will win one of the prizes.

Zbiggy www.worldsci.org/people/Zbigniew_Modrzejewski

Roger Schlafly

Thanks. Well put.

Zbigniew Modrzejewski

Thank you, Roger.

And I forgot to add.

Yes! I agree with you. You are so right --

Einstein Ruined Physics:

http://darkbuzz.com/herp/index.htm

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