Killing Time

Vladimir Rogozhin

Eckard,

In "Time Reborn" Lee Smolin raises the question of "meta-law." Problem of the nature of the "laws of nature" and the nature of "fundamental physical constants" - it is a problem of understanding "meta-law" or "grasping" primordial ontological structure of the Universum, the structure of "meta-process" of nature ("process - in - themselves"). This is a question which has put Heraclitus - idea of the construction "the Beginning" and the "logos" as language and "meta-law" of nature. "Grasping" the construction of "perpetual process" of the Universum in the spirit of Heraclitus we can understand the nature of time. The fundamental error in the physicists that they have deprived Nature of its the ontological (structural) memory , and therefore the problem of understanding the nature of time.

Sincerely,

Vladimir

Eckard Blumschein

Vladimir,

FQXi article "Real-Time Physics" is more easily available than Smolin's book and podcast. I quote: "he [Einstein] argued that no two events are truly simultaneous unless they are causally related."

This seemingly plausible guess caused speculative physicists to intend killing time or at least find out the nature of nature of nature.

Eckard

Vladimir Rogozhin

Eckard.

The question of causal connection time with geometrical and physical laws of the Universum still remains open. Necessary again, more deeply consider the concept of "SPACE"and its ontological (generating) STRUCTURE. A new vision of space is the key to understanding the nature of the phenomenon of "time". Method: The total ontological unification of matter at all levels of the Universum. . The Information age requires a more in-depth - the ontological time, a new vision of "logos", "eidos" and "topos" of the Universum for our mind, which will open a new heuristic.

Sincerely,

Vladimir

DURGA DATTA.

What exactly is time? Can it dilate or we are observing dilation due to measurement by atomic clock. Even no relativistic effects as change of position may give changed time in atomic clocks. Then what is non relativistic time dilation or is it measurement dilation? We say gravity is fundamental force having potential and infinite field. All such assumptions from standard model as also mass less graviton may be wrong . Gravity is emergent from action/reaction of graviton at molecular level--we call classical gravity . Again when gravitons reacts at quark level inside protons and neutrons,---we call quantum gravity. This theory replaces strong and weak nuclear forces with quantum gravity , predicting massive graviton as force carrier replacing gluon. We have to be careful in dealing gravity, dark matter etc etc and all unnecessary assumptions in standard model. READ MY THEORY OF EMERGENT GRAVITY AND A NEW PICTURE OF OUR UNIVERSE IN THIS ATTACHED PAPER AND WRITE ME PERSONNALY ...DURGADAS.DDATTA@GMAIL.COM. Do not criticize openly as the theory largely speculative and waiting for confirmation from LHC experiments.Attachment #1: New_Physics_with_Emergent_Gravity_Mechanism..doc

Steve Agnew

Time is simply a property of each object. Just like color or mass or spin, objects also tell different atomic times. Atomic time emerges from the actions of objects just as space emerges from those same actions and so relativity means time is different for each frame of reference.

However there is one object that tells a unique time from an unchanging frame of reference and that is the universe. The action of the universe tells a very slow and unique time since the action of the universe is very slow and the universe has a fixed frame of reference...the CMB. That universe time is a second time dimension that is in some sense orthogonal to the frame-dependent atomic times of all of its objects.

Thus time is really no mystery...the mysteries are with matter and action...

Georgina Woodward

Hi Steve, you have written "Time is simply a property of each object." I don't think that alone is sufficient as time is not merely one concept. As you then go on to talk about atomic time I think you may be thinking about atomic vibration used in timekeeping. You have space and time emergent from action, which I think maybe another concept. Then you conclude with relativity, which is due to yet another concept of time and as I see it not just a product of the material change due to individual actions. I've written individual actions as that is how you are describing time. I ( and J.C.N. Smith) regard it as change of whole configurations and I think that is important because it is the relations within the configurations that provide the forces for ongoing change. Not explicable with individual object times. Mater and action are not the whole story another ontological layer, the distribution of EM radiation. is required for Einstein's relativity.

Georgina Woodward

Durga, there are two different classes of phenomena occurring both attributed to time dilation. One class of phenomenon is the difference to the derived output reality, seen as difference in the rates of change by comparison because of the way in which EM information is received in different reference frames. The second class is alteration of timekeeping due to an effect upon the substantial timepiece or timepieces. The need to have precise frequency matching to generate an accurate event together with sensitivity to disturbance could tie together a lesser number of events and greater instability of the clock on the anti-rotation journey. The higher frequency for the plane with the greatest velocity, exceeding the Earth rotation, in the Earth rotation direction, also needs mentioning. It could be due to the increase in mass of the atomic nuclei used for time event generation, due to additional inertia (resistance to change of motion ) at that higher velocity. That might have a dampening effect on the

noise causing imprecise frequency matching. Giving a cleaner faster matched frequency generation and consequent faster rate of the clock.

Georgina Woodward

Should have previewed the text: There shouldn't be a gap, nothing is missing there. I don't have an edit tab today to put it right.

Georgina Woodward

In plain English: atomic clocks do not work by tracking the vibration of a single atom or by tracking the vibration of many atoms with synchronized vibration but a population of un-synchronised atoms. The premise of my argument is that the vibrations within that population are not just due to an inherent property but are affected by what those atoms experience. Meaning that differences in time keeping are not necessarily due to differences in passage of time.

Georgina Woodward

To be clear when I said 'experience' I did not mean thinking and feeling. I meant the effect due to the relation between the atom and the environmental conditions to which the atoms are exposed.

Steve Agnew

To be clear...there is an atomic time and practitioners measure atomic time with much precision, but only for a given frame of reference.

Relativity is a very useful way to relate different frames of reference, but relativity does not deal with the universe as an absolute frame of reference. This is unfortunate because the universe time is a completely different time dimension. Science will eventually figure this out and stop blaming measurement error when science really measures universe time.

Matter and action are the pillars of our universe from which all else emerges...

Georgina Woodward

Steve, it isn't about what is happening to matter unobserved. Therefore there has to be another explanation for the apparent relativity of atomic clock function- that I have tried to provide..I'm not disagreeing that there are atomic clocks that are precise timekeepers under controlled laboratory conditions.

I like your last sentence. Not sure just matter and action is enough, Configuration is also important (as previously explained) because of its influence on change that can or can not occur.

Georgina Woodward

An atom of carbon in a carbon dioxide molecule is likely to be more mobile and more likely to be exposed to new interactions with other elements than an atom of carbon inside a diamond crystal. The difference is not due to inherent differences in the carbon atoms themselves but in the configuration of atoms within which they are situated.

Steve Agnew

What you call configuration is what I call the chemical composition or matter spectrum of an object. An object is a superposition of actions of matter and those actions involve the elements and chemical compounds as well.

You are correct when you say there is more than just matter and action. There must be another axiom to close the universe of matter and action and the emergence of time and space from matter and action are exactly what close the universe. In fact, just matter, action, and time are sufficient to predict the actions of all objects.

How actions create an object of matter is certainly part of the story and a matter spectrum in principle completely describes each object, what you call a configuration. In fact, our consciousness measures a kind of crude matter spectrum for each object that we perceive and that is how we predict action. Science has even more elaborate matter spectrometers and therefore science has even more precise predictions.

Georgina Woodward

Hi Steve, configuration, as I am thinking about it, is all kinds of arrangement.I started out using "arrangement" but J.C.N.Smith was using the term "configuration" for the same meaning. I think it is a better term. Chemical composition is one kind of configuration another is an arrangement of objects, or the different components within an object eg. an animal or watch.I'm not convinced that past trajectory without regard for current local conditions necessarily gives a fully accurate prediction. I have recently been arguing that the (underlying ontological) environment produces effects and not all outcomes can be thought of as the products of inherent properties of the particles (or bodies) under consideration.

Is matter spectrum the way you refer to the chemical composition within the non material superposition? It sounds like you are talking about emitted light rather than the objects.

Eckard Blumschein

May I hope for hints to authors of truly foundational work on basics of mathematics? I recently communicated mature literature by Thomas Bedürftig, Wolfgang Mückenheim, and Detlef Spalt among these authors who did not quote each other. They even admitted being unaware of the communicated literature of the other ones. By chance I realized that Knobloch was mentioned by Spalt and also by Katz.

Katz has been using the term A-(Archimedes) continuum in contrast to a B-(Johann Bernoulli)continuum. For my feeling, Archimedes should not be associated with Zenon's ill-conceptualized continuum of indivisibles (points) but with the endless (Archimedean) possibilities of addition and division.

A plurality of infinities corresponds to the more obviously unjustified plurality of zeros. Given Mückenheim is correct in that there is strictly speaking no absolute infinity, should this not imply that there in no absolute zero and also not any absolute singular number except for the primary unit one? By the way, I agree with Katz on rigor.

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Steve Dufourny

(--)(--)(--)(--) Hello Eckard.

I agree also about the finite or infinite series.That said the physicality is finite in its series of uniqueness ,and infinite by add or X.That said we have this wall separating the physicality and the infinite entropy above this physicalit.It is always how we utilise our domains ,laws,math Tools.....Regards :)

Eckard Blumschein

When I mentioned Katz, I mainly referred to M. Katz and to Notices of the ASM Vol. 60, No. 7 (Aug. 2013) p. 886-904 giving 110 refs. including Lawvere, J. Bell and many others.

I wonder if I will be able to benefit from anything offered by Steve D.

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Steve Dufourny

Hi Jedi (--)(--)(--)(--) Well ,If you want Eckard, I can offer you chocolates and beers from belgium.It will permit you toopen your mind for the creativity.Because it is well to repeat the story of sciences or some works with namesofpeople.But you know the most important is to play with maths and create new Tools with a pure imagination and intuition and also the sortings is essential.That is why it exists persons who creates équations and others who study them.It is the same in all humility with thee generality.It is a reality, a few number unfortunally of persons on this earth understands really what is the relativity and gravitation.Is it due to a lack of studies in all centers of interests?Is it due to a lack of studies of philosophies?The entropical principle it is the same.When people wants to speak about generalities, so they must understand these generalities or they must learn simply.The vanity is probably a main parameter, and these the maths have no explainations.The maths aremy passion and physics and sciences.Are you able to benefit of this reality Eckard my dear jedi friend of the sphere.Now we are going to speak about Bohm ,how do you consider his works ?a simple question of a simple nursery man.To you ....

Steve Dufourny

Let's begin with the manathan project and the works of debroglie bohm about the order and the inveloped, the implicate or the hidden order .Explain me in the dialog in a bohmain philosophy why the dualism is a reality and how saw Aharanov in all this?

After your development and DIALOG,you are going to explain where the determinism is a reality comparated to the interpretationof Copenagehn.You can utilise several Tools to develop the dialog about the pure universal determinism.The classment and categorification of orders can be extrapolated in this dialog about thedeterminism.Show me the subtil difference between the points of vue of Borh and Heisenberg and them of Bohm in a pure imaginative intuition.After like conclusion I d like that you interpret the uncertainty principle for both of these interprétations in explaining the philosophical meaning of the entropy and the codes, gravitational.The hidden variables so are ?Good work Eckard my jedi friend.

Akinbo Ojo

Eckard,

If your view is that infinity should be banished from theoretical physics, a view I share along with others then if we extend this to time, it means something that exists and is measurable cannot have infinite duration of existence. It cannot have infinite time. If this is so, it means that something will eventually cease to exist and whatever be the value of it that you are measuring will become absolute zero.

Therefore, it may not be correct to say that if there is no infinity, there cannot be absolute zero.

Regards,

Akinbo

Steve Dufourny

Hi Mr Ojo ,Eckard,

I discussed in private with Ms Yu Sandstrom ,she works about the zero.The zero is indeed intriguing like the zero aboslute.The walls appear.The infinity is a tool which must interpreted with relativity.If now deterministically speaking how is this infinity.The most important is to differenciate the serries Inside the physicality.They are finite.The infinity is above this finite system and others infinities appear with adds or X ...Let's take the constant pi or this or that ,it is a infinite serie,but it is not the infinity above.It is always how we interpret the series and mathematical Tools in fact,the philosophy is relevant to insert.We can discuss during an infinite time, that will not change the reality of this physicality.The constants ......

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