Thank you jason, not really, I am going to loose my house now.I must pay 65 000 quickly.I have lost all my flowers and plants due to bad people, the politic still.

The human nature is very bizare.I fight but it is difficult.

I have a bad health, and I have not a job furthermore.

I am tired. But I am continuing even with people against me.I fight alone.

Best to both of you .

Hi jcns,

I'm glad that you find Daryl's essay as interesting as I do. I have added a comment to the exchange that you and Daryl had on his thread. I reproduce that comment here in my own thread so that I can keep the idea 'close at hand':

Dear Daryl and jcns,

A very interesting exchange. JCN says, "humans have come to refer to the changing configurations of the universe as 'the flow of time.' It is ... crucial to recognize ... however, that the changes ... are *not caused by,* and are not in any way a consequence of, the flow of time. Rather, the changes ...*are* the flow of time."

That has sort of been the way I have been thinking, but your very phraseology has caused me to see it in a different perspective. As you know energy and time are conjugate variables, and in the view you [jcns] just espoused, it would be *energy* (or more correctly, "the flow of energy") that is real and time that is emergent. But in the "present as real" perspective, obviously energy is everywhere local, whereas time is global and universal. Therefore there would seem to be a universal 'reality' to time as opposed to merely a handy way of tagging sequential events.

Daryl, I too am working through your wonderfully written dissertation. Wow!

Edwin Eugene Klingman

Dear Edwin Eugene Klingman,

Well done! This is an excellent essay. Your argument is clear and well-written, and you've given me much to think about. I too think there must be something classical happening at the heart of quantum mechanics, and I think your essay describes a logically consistent way of accounting for the wave equation in that respect, although I'm not an expert and my ability to judge your derivation critically is limited. However, I really do agree with your approach, which I think meets the purpose of this contest right on the mark, and I find your results very intriguing, so I'll definitely be following up on the advice you've given in the final paragraph.

I was particularly interested in the way you've described superposition, although it's something that hasn't bothered me as much. In itself, I don't have an issue with the idea of a cat (one particle) that's both alive and dead while it's in the box. There is a problem, though, when it comes to looking in the box, because then the cat can only be alive or dead, and I'm not a fan of the act of measurement being something that causes the wave function to collapse. So, although I'm not immediately opposed to the idea of one particle that's also a superposition of multiple possibilities, I don't like the implication that the result of looking into the box should be probabilistic. This backs me into a small-ish corner, where I think my best option is along these lines: maybe the particle really is one such thing (the cat's either alive or dead), and the whether of that is the thing that's probabilistic, e.g. depending on a radioactive half-life; but more than that, the physical description of the thing that actually exists is also mathematically something like one root of a polynomial, although the root is more accurately a `superposition' of numbers. If that superposition is consistent with the probabilistic nature of what the particle actually is, then I think you'd have quantum mechanics. I think this is right in line with what you've written in `The Source of the Error', second paragraph, and therefore with your interesting result, that `Each possible solution has a probability yet only one physical solution occurs'.

Anyway, I have a result written up which I think you'd find interesting, and it would explain (more concisely than it does in my dissertation) where I'm coming from in mentioning polynomials here. The result is a long, long way from quantum theory, but I'd be happy to email you the paper that's in review if you thought you'd have time to read it.

Again, excellent work, and I truly wish you success in this contest!

Sincerely,

Daryl

P.S. I only noticed the comment you left about my essay and dissertation on J. C. N. Smith's blog a couple of days ago, which I see you've reproduced above. I can't begin to express the profound gratitude I continue to feel for the enthusiasm and support you've shown for my work.

    Dear Daryl Janzen,

    Thank you for the above comments.

    You and I agree about "going to the source". In your thesis you, "...try to understand the assumptions and presumptions behind the reasonings of those who have played important roles in its philosophical development, with the idea that if we can truly understand what they were thinking and why, we might better understand where they went wrong." I've tried to do the same.

    I would be happy to read your paper on polynomial solutions. [My email address is in my essay.] Having finished reading your dissertation last night, I have a guess about what your approach is, and look forward to seeing if I'm right. You could have copied my last essay paragraph and ended your thesis with it. Far too much to fully absorb at one reading, and I hope to find time to make notes and summarize my main impressions and review it again. [I used up three yellow liners on your words.]

    This contest is shaping up well. I think some important essays have been submitted, and very likely more will be. I recommend Normal Cook's "Nucleodynamics" for more insight into particles, and I would be interested in your take on Ernst Fischer's essay.

    I have no problem with 'superposition' of numbers, either roots of polynomials or Fourier series, but I strongly believe that material particles are not 'super-imposable'. For reasons of lack of space, I simply assume the existence of the particles and deal only with the induced wave (function) in my essay. It is definitely not for lack of theory about particles. All of the known particles (except the Higgs) fall out of my theory, i.e., neutrinos, electrons, up and down quarks, and all three families (but no 'super-partners'). I suspect that an understanding of the material particles (and why they are NOT super-imposable) makes my wave function more credible, but such was far outside the 9 page contraints.

    Thanks again for your comments, but mostly I thank you for your essay and your thesis.

    Edwin Eugene Klingman

    Dear Edwin

    Great essay, thank you. You make a good point about physics confounding physical waves and probability waves. That is a long-standing area where science has been unable to come up with physical explanations. It's a worthwhile premise to question.

    Good luck with the competition.

    Dirk

      Dear Dirk Pons,

      Thanks for the above observation. In nine pages packed with information about one of the most complicated and contentious fields of physics, you clearly and succinctly extracted one of the key points in the essay in just seven words, "physics confounding physical waves and probability waves". Congratulations.

      I also admire both your imagination in the design approach laid out in your essay and the fact that you managed it as a family project. Congratulations again.

      Edwin Eugene Klingman

      Edwin

      There are so many important truisms in your essay and so densely packed it's hard to pick one out. Waves certainly real fluctuations not metaphysical. Particles key actors in propagation, QM real and local (and deriving relativity). The list goes on.

      Do you think 'probability' may just be the incomputability of complex interactions between real waves beyond our comprehension? If Heisenberg considered diffraction related to uncertainty it may be so, and again be just interpretation that's nonsense. If you consider a dozen particles driving along a motorway at different speeds emitting different real waves, could we compute how they interact at any point? But given certain information we can at least arrive at a most 'likely' value at any point and moment. For 'likely' then perhaps read 'probable.' This would fit with my derivation of observed SR effects from a QM. How else would the waves interact in a complex scenario?

      Best wishes

      Peter

        Hi Peter,

        Thanks for the comment and questions. You're right-- the essay is packed with info (some are truisms, but in QM even that is debatable.) To deal with a century of confusion requires covering a lot of ground in 9 pages. You ask whether I think 'probability' may be just the incomputability of complex interactions beyond our capabilities. In the essay, I use the 'partition function' of statistical mechanics as the basis of probability for energy states and then show how this links to the physical wave (length) to allow the calculation of probability amplitudes. The partition function, which is typically based on huge numbers of combinatorial events, probably meets your specification as to the nature of probability. What I focus on is the generally-not-understood connection of the physical wave to probability wave (as Dirk Pons noted above).

        I have not focused on Heisenberg and diffraction (I count on you for that!) but I generally view Heisenberg in two compatible ways. The finite wavelength lends itself a certain Fourier-based limitation that can be considered 'uncertainty'. Also, in previous essays, I have derived a quantum flow condition that generalizes his relations. In any case, the existence of a quantum of action strongly limits what can be measured without disturbing the system. I reference recent Aharonov-based 'weak measurements' that get around this limitation, but only statistically.

        Your question about a dozen particles on a motorway is good. In my opinion the wave 'phase' associated with each particle is inherently unknown (unmeasurable) so exact calculations are impossible, leaving us with a distribution of 'most likely' values as you desire for your "derivation of SR from a QM."

        My essay shows how one can understand quantum mechanical probability amplitudes from physical waves. Lack of information on individual phases means that probability is the best we can hope for, but this does not imply the mystical consequences that follow from belief in the pure 'probability wave' that has characterized most quantum interpretations for a century.

        Thanks as always for your insightful questions.

        Edwin Eugene Klingman

        5 days later

        Dear Edwin,

        You do seem to have given a clear and well presented argument, though I lack the expertise to comment on its validity. It is relevant as you clearly point out an error in understanding of a physical phenomenon. Your diagrams are nice too.

        I found the beginning bit about the evidence for a real wave rather than wave packet very interesting. Also the part about vortices and the aircraft.

        I have appreciated your feedback on my various ideas and essay in this contest. I hope you get lots of readers who are able to appreciate what you have written and give it the score it deserves. Good luck in the competition.

          Dear Edwin,

          you are kind to me. I wish I had the ability to really appreciate what you have written and say something so nice in return. I have read some of the other very complementary comments on this thread, which show that it is my shortcoming and not your essay that is at fault. Good luck.

          Hi Edwin,

          I really enjoyed this paper -- I could overlook every nit which I question, and come away only with the argument that the wave function is not probabilistic -- and still be satisified.

          So I offer the following as commentary, not criticism.

          You write: "We can safely ignore wave functions of infinite extent, but all treatments of atomic orbits are based upon the assumption of an integral number of wavelengths--the link that connects wavefunction to both energy and probability."

          Measured experimental outcomes are always integral (no such thing as half an event). I was both puzzled and impressed in first being exposed to Joy's framework, that he was addressing a quantum experiment and there was no probability function in it. None at all. It was only after some time that I was able to work out that the absence of a probability function implies absence of boundary conditions at every scale, which implies absence of reference coordinate frame, which can be explained only by a continuous function in a topological model. Eureka, as our friend from Belgium would say.

          We also reach Joy's derivation of -a.b by different paths. To me, it's clear in his one-page paper that the result is the reduction to an input argument for a function continuous from a topological initial condition. That's not saying that it can't be derived another way.

          Just one more comment, concerning dialogue here with Daryl, and the characterization of solutions to polynomial equations as analagous to superposition -- just shows how differently physicists and mathematicians think. The number of solutions corresponding to polynomial degree are *all* real solutions, not in superposition. That's the fundamental theorem of algebra! LOL!

          Anyway -- thanks for a good read, and best wishes in the competition.

          Tom

            Hi Tom,

            Thanks for reading my essay and for your gracious comments. I read your essay and plan to comment. All I remember at the moment is that I very much liked your last paragraph.

            Based on all of the "Disproof" blogs, I knew that you would have some trouble with this paper, but I'm glad you worked through it and found it interesting. From our many previous exchanges we both know that our views are quite different despite our mutual desire for an essentially classical (i.e., continuum-based) approach to reality. As the Zen Buddhists say, once you go too far down the path, you have trouble getting off. This applies to us as well -- once we have made things fit together in our minds such that we think we have the truth, it is very hard to see other's truths. I think you and I have things that fit together very well in our own minds but do not overlap to a great extent. I'm sure we share some truth.

            I meet with a local group and one of the group has pushed me on how my theory relates to Joy (which he has studied) and I have recently understood both what Joy has done and what I have done in his framework much better than I express it in my essay. I'm writing up the overview now. I think you would enjoy it.

            As you remark about Daryl, and about your understanding of Joy's results, physicists and mathematicians do see things quite differently.

            Anyway, thanks again Tom.

            Edwin Eugene Klingman

            Yo, E.E.K., you asked me, back on the thread of G.F.R. Ellis, F.R.S., to say something here.

            I'm afraid I'm far from sure that the mathematics of the QM formalism refers to anything apart from the probability of observing certain quantum events under defined experimental conditions. "Wave function" may be simply an attempt (of precisely the kind Bohr -- yes, I know: hiss the villain -- warned against) to picture that which cannot meaningfully be pictured or diagrammed. Bohr blamed complex numbers and noted that the trend had already surfaced in relativity ... first Minkowski's imaginary time axis, then later the Friedmann universe model adopted by Einstein. QM soon picked up the ball and ran with it.

            Micro-wise you first diverge from classical physics with half-integer spin and right off the bat there's a choice: you either accept that a realm of reality exists in which a sphere has the properties of a Moebius strip or else face the possibility that the math you're employing so productively doesn't refer to anything you can concretely envision: its terms are purely symbolic. (Feynman never claimed his diagrams were literal pictures of reality either: they're high-class equivalents of the cheat-notes Sarah Palin jots on her left palm.) Ditto the thing we call Wave Function, this Cosa Nostra.

            (Exits hurriedly)

              Oh, Bell ...

              I know for a fact that BT is NOT violated in macroworld experiments using sets of separable physical objects. It's solid classical mathematical logic, as Venn-diagramming it conclusively proves. So it's sound stuff.

              Since it's obviously violated in quantum experiments I accept that quantum ontology is significantly different from classical ontology. I also buy into the idea that we're coarse-grained measuring instruments up here and that's probably why we don't perceive violations.

                Hi nmann, thanks for the comments. Of course you may be right, along with Bohr (hiss) but I think you're not. I don't know how much attention you've been paying to Geometric Algebra, but I'm much more comfortable with complex numbers now that I understand their interpretation in that formalism.

                As for spin one-half, I too spent many years worrying about that puppy, but it now falls out of my theory in a way that makes more sense than the Mobius strip. This essay is devoted to quantum mechanics, but there is a particle physics aspect of this theory, and spin makes physical sense there in a way that I envision.

                So you and Bohr may be right, but I'm increasingly convinced that you're wrong.

                The good thing is, we'll probably know before too long (at least if you're wrong.)

                Thanks again,

                Edwin Eugene Klingman

                nmann: This is a harder comment to respond to. I'm finding that others have different ideas about Bell's theorem, and some of those ideas I don't quite understand. But I am more convinced now than when I wrote the essay that Joy's framework is appropriate, and that my theory fits into that framework very well. The no-go theorems that I reference in the essay (PBR especially) argue for the reality of the wave function, versus just information. This too should become clearer before long (I hope).

                Edwin Eugene Klingman

                Hi nmann,

                You wrote: "BT is NOT violated in macroworld experiments using sets of separable physical objects."

                How on earth do you know that? There has never been a single experiment carried out to check what you are claiming. In fact I put my last penny on my claim that Bell-CHSH inequality would be violated as strongly in the macroworld as it is in the microworld, provided an appropriate experiment in the macroscopic domain is carried out. Below I am attaching a proposal for just such a macro-experiment. This proposal also appears as Chapter 3 of my book.

                I categorically claim that if my proposed experiment is carried out, then the violation of Bell-CHSH inequality would be confirmed in the macroworld and Bell's theorem would be finally put in its rightful place---i.e., in the graveyard.

                Joy ChristianAttachment #1: 32_0806.3078v2.pdf

                Joy Christian:

                Material similar to this has been around for decades. We used to try violating BT as a game. We'd use letters in words in blocks of text. Bunches of coins or keys, or coins and keys together. Food containers pulled at random from kitchen shelves. All you do is define your set, select three characteristics applicable to the set members that can be answered Yes or No (longer than, shorter than, lighter than, heavier than, boxed or not, tinned or not, picture of product on container (or not) ... use your imagination. Set up your truth table and go for it.

                http://www.upscale.utoronto.ca/GeneralInterest/Harrison/BellsTheorem/BellsTheorem.html

                I'm too lazy to follow the proper link protocol. Now ... BT can be "violated" macroscopically by simulating entanglement, the probably most notable example of that trick being Dirk Aerts' two-vessels-connected-by-a-tube gedanken. (By the way, he says he contacted you once re: algebra but you were too busy fighting off the attacks on one of your early papers to be of help.) It's not the same thing as a genuine violation, however.