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  • Post #31

Israel,

Thank you for the reply and advice. Given the enormity of the situation, I have to stick with making predictions of what will be discovered, rather than experiment. Some of the recent observations of distant galaxies and galaxy clusters ,which push the boundaries of current theory: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5

As for the idea of cosmic rays condensing into interstellar gases, resulting in a gravitational contraction, while they haven't been able to find dark matter, there is an excess of cosmic rays on the perimeter of this galaxy.

"motion is a fundamental quantity, above space and time. Motion makes us believe that things occupy a place. The problem is that no one understands motion or change. This is one of the most difficult things in physics."

Actually I think I offer a clue to this in my essay. By deconstructing our misperception of time, I place motion within the equilibrium of space, with time as emergent effect.

Sorry for all the links, but they are generally interesting, if you haven't already seen them.

Thanks for those. I've already read 19 (once). Any other references on this topic would be very welcome. Thanks again.

Hi Isreal,

I haven't read your essay yet, but I am responding to the comment you made above. This is the the comment you made that I have issues with; "With respect to the one-way measurement of the speed of neutrinos or light, I have reservations. My investigations have shown that no experiment can measure one-way speeds of any physical entity unless you have an adequate clock synchronization (which implies the knowledge of the one-way speed of some physical entity, and thus this is a dead end)."

One of the first indications that the velocity of light was finite was observations of the moons of Jupiter. It can be determined relativily precisely when the moons of Jupiter will eclipse each other, or pass in front of Jupiter, or behind it. In the 19th century they were using this fact to determine a universal time relative to London, or Paris, or what have you. The issue that arose that called this into question was that when the earth was on the oposite side of the Sun from Jupiter, the eclipses of the moons of Jupiter arrived 16 minutes later then when the earth was closest to Jupiter. That is a one way measure of the velocity of light without "adequate clock synchronization". I'm sure there are others.

Jim Akerlund

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  • Post #34

Israel, if in a gravitational field the speed of light varies in accordance with Einstein's 1911 equation c'=c(1+gh/c^2), which is in fact a prediction of Newton's emission theory of light, then in gravitation-free space the speed of light varies with v, the speed of the observer relative to the light source, in accordance with the equation c'=c+v. See this:

http://galileo.phys.virginia.edu/classes/252/general_relativity.html

Michael Fowler, University of Virginia: "What happens if we shine the pulse of light vertically down inside a freely falling elevator, from a laser in the center of the ceiling to a point in the center of the floor? Let us suppose the flash of light leaves the ceiling at the instant the elevator is released into free fall. If the elevator has height h, it takes time h/c to reach the floor. This means the floor is moving downwards at speed gh/c when the light hits. Question: Will an observer on the floor of the elevator see the light as Doppler shifted? The answer has to be no, because inside the elevator, by the Equivalence Principle, conditions are identical to those in an inertial frame with no fields present. There is nothing to change the frequency of the light. This implies, however, that to an outside observer, stationary in the earth's gravitational field, the frequency of the light will change. This is because he will agree with the elevator observer on what was the initial frequency f of the light as it left the laser in the ceiling (the elevator was at rest relative to the earth at that moment) so if the elevator operator maintains the light had the same frequency f as it hit the elevator floor, which is moving at gh/c relative to the earth at that instant, the earth observer will say the light has frequency f(1 + v/c) = f(1+gh/c^2), using the Doppler formula for very low speeds."

That is, the earth observer will measure the speed of light to be c'=f'(lambda)=cf'/f=c(1+gh/c^2), as predicted by Newton's emission theory of light. Equivalently, an observer in gravitation-free space accelerating against the flash of light with acceleration g will measure the speed of light to be c'=f'(lambda)=cf'/f=c+v. Needless to say, this is again a prediction of Newton's emission theory of light.

Pentcho Valev pvalev@yahoo.com

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  • Post #35

Hi Israel,

I agree without reservation with Popper's view of science. It's a mathematician's view, after all -- that some premises are better suited to some problems than others. That a mathematical model is independent of physics, and only realized as useful to physics in the correspondence of the mathematics to the results of a physical experiment (Popper adapted this position from Tarski's correspondence theory of truth).

Your well argued hypothesis of a one-way measurement has the earmarks of a seminal idea. A few months ago when the faster-than-light neutrino controversy was in full swing, I argued that unless a two-way measurement could confirm that putative result, we could never be sure of its physical reality. That is impossible in principle, however. So I get your point that such an hypothesis might be deemed superfluous without actually being superfluous. I.e., it would meet Popper's criteria of metaphysical realism.

That's why I think that topology is the most useful mathematical framework to address foundational questions. We need the property of orientability to deal with one-way phenomena. I hope you get a chance to visit my essay site ("The perfect first question") to see why.

Best wishes in the competition.

Tom

    Dear Vladimir

    Definitely Einstein was very smart, there is no doubt about it.

    I am not objecting what you said. I just meant that maybe there is no need to unify Relativity and quantum mechanics as many physicists believe today. Both theories have been very useful as a mathematical tools, but, particularly, I think that relativity is not the only theory to account for the observations. I have seen a couple of other theories that do the same work as relativity.

    Israel

    Dear John

    I found very interesting the links you sent me. Thanks for the information. As I mentioned before change and motion are very difficult concepts to grasp. I will take a look at your essay ASAP.

    Israel

    Hi Tom

    Thanks for you comments, they are very welcomed. You have summarized my view very well. I consider that Popper's view is highly influential for scientific work. He is still one of the basic references in a epistemological paper. It is unquestionable.

    You touch an relevant topic, the topic of truth. Actually, I have been studying the criterion of truth. I mean how can we know that something is true or false. This topic is interesting to me for several reasons.

    As to the speed of neutrinos, I agree. A comprehensive understanding of the speed of any physical entity cannot be attained without the acceptance of absolute velocity. My reference 17 shows that if in a measurement, carried out in an inertial system in motion relative to the preferred system, the absolute one-way speed of the entity is close to the speed of light, the observer in motion will measure a value slightly higher than c, say 300 100. This effect is only a problem of the geometry of your experimental setup. If you change the geometry you will get a slightly different value. The reason for this is because of the length contraction that undergoes the apparatus. Another reason is the orientation of the setup relative to the motion of the inertial system. Please take a look at my reference 17 for further details. Of course, there are some many other factors that could affect the measurement like gravitational, temperature, etc. So, the task of measuring with high precision, as it is required for the case of neutrinos, becomes really challenging.

    Indeed, topology gives a different view of the universe. Though one should be reserved about the physical meaning that can be extracted from topological approaches. I appreciate your comments which have been very inspiring.

    It would be nice reading your essay. As you can see there are so many. I'll check it ASAP.

    Good luck in the contest

    Israel

    Hi Georgina

    Just to thank you for your clarification.

    Israel

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    • Post #41

    Hi James

    Thanks for your comment. In my investigations, I have considered most experimental techniques. Roemer approach is well known to me. And it is very controversial due to the fact that people assumed a system of reference at rest with respect to the sun, but time measurements are realized on Earth. So they are presupposing a clock synchronization a la Newton. The same time on Earth and the same on the sun, Jupiter, etc. Most authors who claim that this is a one-way method do not show convincing arguments against this and no detailed calculations. The Roemer approach is ambivalent. You can judge it from different perspectives. You can see Io moon as a mirror reflecting the sun light. In this sense it is clear that light goes towards the moon and then backwards to the earth (this resembles Fizea-Focault approach). The other way of seeing this experiment is based only on the variations of delay times in the moon positions (determined by the orbital period) and the difference of the distance between the Earht and Jupiter at different positions of the Earth's orbit. But like I said they assumed the Sun as the reference frame and not ther Earth. If you have any references where the calculations are explicitcly shown please send them to me, I will be glad if you can convince me that Roemer approach is a one-way measurement.

    Best Regards

    Israel

    Hi Israel,

    You seem to have missed my point. The light of the moons of Jupiter eclipsing each other was expected to arrive at a certain time on the Earth and it didn't. You could make this very same setup on a table top, where the (one way) light is expected to arrive at certain times due to the very geometry and math of your setup. No need to deal with whether we are using the Sun as a reference frame, or Earth, or Centari Proxima. My point was that the example I cited did not use clock synchronization. And I now add that this can be scaled down to table top.

    Jim Akerlund

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    • Post #43

    Israel,

    You're welcome. Good luck in the contest.

    Hi Pentcho

    I think you're confused and you're mixing several things and several interpretations.

    Please take a look at this web site you will find the complete and correct expression for the speed of light in a gravitational field.

    You: if in a gravitational field the speed of light varies in accordance with Einstein's 1911 equation c'=c(1+gh/c^2)...

    Me: Recall that this expression is an APPROXIMATION derived by Einstein from a relativistic treatment in the limit when v is very small compared to c. And when v is small compare to c the equation coincides with the Newtonian result. Also, the expression that you use for the frequency f' is an approximation. The fact that they are approximations means that the result is INCOMPLETE, not correct at all.

    Now, consider that a ship is moving with velocity v relative to the water. Then assume that the ship is producing waves that move with velocity u and consider that v is less than c. I ask you. is the speed of the waves dependent on the speed of the ship for an observer at rest relative to the water? Then, does the addition of velocities v plus u apply in this case? No, the speed of the waves will be the same no matter the speed of the ship.

    The case is similar to the case of light waves, if you assume that they travel relative to the homogeneous aether ("free" space). No inertial system can move faster than c. Thus an observer at rest relative to the aether will see c and not c plus v. Thus, the emission theory of light does not apply for light waves.

    On the other hand, when we are under the influence of a gravitational field. The speed of light waves will vary according to the expression: c'=c(1+2Q/c^2), where Q is the gravitational potential, i.e. the instantaneous velocity of light will vary from point to point within the gravitational field. This can be reinterpreted in terms of frequency and this is the cause of the redshift or the blueshift. The real phenomenon is that the absolute speed of light is really changing within the aether because the aether is inhomogeneous due the gravitational potential.

    The question now is: If the speed of light changes from point to point why nobdy has measured these differences? Well take a look at my reference 17, there you will see that the experimental techniques play an important rol.

    I hope I have answered your doubts.

    Israel

    Hi James

    Well, I have my reservations. I would appreciate very much if you have any reference available. In my investigations I analyze classical table top experiments. Particularly, those using only one clock without need of synchronization. I showed that what the experimentalist thinks to be a one-way measurement is in fact a two-way measurement.

    Israel

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    • Post #46

    Hi Israel,

    Don't you declare Einstein a moron if you object to his Leyden lecture as if he simply overlooked what you now found out? I didn't find any hint to an insight or even an experimental result that was not yet known to him.

    What about Akerlund's Roemer argument, I recall that it was treated in detail by Gift.

    Good luck

    Eckard

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      • Post #47

      Israel, the site you referred me to is fatal for relativity:

      http://www.speed-light.info/speed_of_light_variable.htm

      I have quoted this site countless times in my discussions but it always acts like the face of Medusa the Gorgon: on seeing it, clever Einsteinians get petrified and never reply.

      Pentcho Valev pvalev@yahoo.com

      Dear Israel

      I completely agree with you that there is no need to unify Relativity and QM as they are now...the title of my fqxi essay implies that: "Fix Physics!- Reverse Engineer Relativity, Quantum Mechanics and the Standard Model, Get Rid of Outdated Assumptions, Consolidate, and Reconstruct on New First Principles". I think if this program is ever accomplished successfully both Relativity and QM will look unrecognizable!

      I would be thankful if you provide reference to the alternative relativity theories you mentioned to.

      Vladimir

      Edwin

      With reference to warping of spacetime being interpreted as density, I have adopted Eddington's 1920 density idea in my 2003 United Dipole Field and incorporated it into my Beautiful Universe theory see Fig. 27 here captioned: A Schwarzschild metric for the gravity of a particle at the center, is interpreted in (BU) in terms of local density variations without invoking spacetime distortions.

      Life goes on! Vladimir

      Hi Petncho

      I understand what you said about relativists. But I think there is a misconception from their part. Most of them are taught that the speed of light is always c, even if they do not have an intuitive picture of why this is true. The explanation they have is only mathematical. And since no experiment has contradicted this postulate they usually hold their position.

      The problem of why no experiment shows a value higher c arises from two factors: the experimental techniques and the fact that the speed of light is maximum in a given region of the gravitational field. To understand this you should keep in mind the following. If we consider the speed of light as our basic unit of motion, we will always get the same value independent of the place where we carry out our measurement. But here there is a conceptual difficulty, because traditionally, the speed is defined as the ratio of distance to time. So, when you compute the speed of something you define a length and you measure the time it takes for the physical entity (PE) to move from one place to another.

      To understand my view, we can also assume motion as a fundamental quantity. And consider the speed of light (SL) as our basic unit of motion. If we adopt this convention we can refer any other motion of any PE, say a particle (P), relative to the SL. So, if we would like to measure the speed of P we have to define an arbitrary distance L and let a ray of light to travel L, when the ray arrives to the opposite endpoint we record the time t_l it takes. The value of L is for this experiment irrelevant but it has to be the same for both the ray and the P. Then, you let the P to travel the distance and again measure the time t_p it takes. As you can see the experiment resembles a race. What we want to know is what PE is faster than the other but considering the SL as the unit of motion, as a unit of "rapidity". So, the speed of P in these new units of motion can be defined as: v=t_l/t_p.

      Likewise we can adopt the equivalent convention. We can define an arbitrary interval of time, say 1 second. During this interval we let the ray of light to travel and when the interval is complete we determine the last position of the ray of light, so we can obtain the corresponding distance d_l. Then, we do the same for the P and we will obtain the distance d_p. The speed of the particle will be v=d_p/d_l. If we assume that the SL is a limiting speed v will always be less than 1. If you have understood this measurement procedure then now you can understand why the SL is always the same in a gravitaional field. If we try to measure the SL at different regions of the gravitational field we will find that, despite that the fact that the speed of light is c'=c(1+2Q/c^2), the value will be 1 (or c in traditional units), because in that region of space the SL is maximum. If we go to another region, the speed of light is also maximum and we will obtain 1 again (or c).

      I hope you have understood these ideas

      Israel