The Conciousness Connection by Wilhelmus de Wilde

Why complicate the matter when the contrast between tetrahedrons and spheres can define equivalent actions of energy and mass? Composed of both by a tiny particle, the electron, it mediates contacts with all particles, atoms, molecules, bacteria, etc. around that suffer "feelings", i.e. panpsychism. Are they slaves to me or am I to them?

Dear Wilhelmus,

I have read your essay. It is well written and enjoyable. I really do grasp your spheres of simultaneity explanation as I can fit it quite easily with my own way of thinking. About 2/3 of the way through I think, (it was some time ago that I read it) you began to loose me and it got complicated for me. Partly, I think, because of my own (unhelpful) resistance to what you were saying or how you were saying it.

It seems that you are talking about the equivalent of observer interaction with the data pool, in my way of talking. You wrote:"Free will makes the choice of an infinity of alpha-Ps in TS." That seems to tie in with what I have been saying to Tom and others on Julian Barbour's blog thread about the whole set of possible transformations of an object existing as data in the environment:I might interpret your "an infinity of alpha-Ps in TS" as all of the potential data, co existing simultaneously in the environment, from which an observer will select an incomplete set; from which his personal fabrication of external reality will be constructed.

It is a fascinating essay, though I do perhaps have to read your essay again to get used to how you are using the language to describe various concepts in order to thoroughly understand it.I hope you get lots of helpful feedback.Good luck.

Hi Wilhelmus,

I don't have a mathematical background. My degree is in biological sciences. I passed a course in statistics but there was not much mathematics other than that involved.

Yes I agree that the brain is processing information it has received ahead of awareness as a present, so using the normal temporal language that processing must be happening in the future compared to the observer's present experience. (There is experimental evidence to support that, some of which was shared at the last FQXi conference.) I do not regard that future to be somewhere else in time though, it is all happening simultaneously. The next present is being fabricated simultaneously with the experience of the current present, which is all happening in uni-temporal space (I mean by that space that has no time dimension but is fully simultaneous, which I think you call TS)

Yes when I talk about the external environment I am not talking about the space-time fabrication of the observer which he is experiencing as a sequence of presents but the space and arrangement of objects that exists unobserved.IE. Not the sequence of "patchwork" outputs from receipt of incomplete information and its processing but the source of the data. They are shown on different levels on my diagram 1. to show their apparent separateness even though they can only be within the same uni-temporal space. I have likened it to the whole fantasy realm inside a book. I also talk about the data that has the potential to become an observer's present experience but has not yet been received as pre-written futures, (Potential presents).

Wilhelmus, you are right that your essay is different from the rest in explaining that -very- important temporal peculiarity of reality. There are just a small number of people who really understand it and the consequences of it. I really feel privileged to have met someone here who does understand it and who will be able to empathise with the difficulty of clearly conveying to other people the concept, and its importance.

What are the theological implications of this discussion?

I am but a simple layman. Although I got straight As in physics, this stuff you guys write about is off my comprehension charts.

I ask the question because I wish to explore whether or not 21st century science and 21st century theological thinking are - perhaps - on the same path of exploration.

For example: I believe (but can not prove) that the implications of quantum physics and e = mc2 open the door to a radical new interpretation of our Cosmos (all that there is) and universe (all that we can observe). This could lead to a more credible explanation of how (and why) we humans have a sense of the spiritual (however expressed in various religions).

I was delighted to read Stephen M. Barr's dissertation "Does Quantum Physics Make it Easier to Believe in God" because it opens up the possibility of a thoughtful (science based) discussion.

Very thoughtful.

I need to study the QM / consciousness concepts more closely.

Yes. I am the one.

I would be humbly gratified if you would read it and let me know if my physics is badly out of step with current knowledge.

You may also find the theology interesting.

Ron

Dear Wil,

I am glad to have been entagling with you through the inner "i" in us.

Wonderfully explained the true meaning and functioning of consciousness. As always my deepest regards and wishes are with you.

Love,

Sridattadev.

Hi Wilhelmus,

You wrote:

"2. Existence is mathematically complete, consistent and closed, because it is itself and it generates itself from itself". Here I cannot agree, first : existaence is not something that can be difined as "mathematical" (my perception), it is not consistent and closed because it changes every Planck time. "It is itself and generates itself" here you are contradicting yourself, mathematics cannot generate itself, it is a produst of our thinking. I agree with you that "existenc" generates itself but then via the "non causal part" of our consciousness in Total Simultaneity, for that pleas read "THE CONSCIOUSNESS CONNECTION3 where I explain all the details."

My definition of 'mathematics' is just far broader than ZFC, or any mathematics you are likely to be familiar with. For me, any system that can represent things in terms of how they relate to each other is a 'mathematical system'. From that perspective, how mathematics is represented, or who or what defines it or who or what does the computation is irrelevant to the fundamental purpose of mathematics.

Why should we complicate mathematics by coupling it to observation and making it depend on observation and an observer when that is not necessary for it to fulfill its primary purpose? That is only necessary for mathematics we observers define, and use for our computations.

Since existence has to be able to represent things and the relations between them, it has to be a kind of mathematical system (using my terms).

I have discovered a way in which the universe can generate its own formal (non-fixed symbolic) 'mathematical system' starting from nothing but the grand unified field. In effect, it creates its own 'complex number system' and writes its own 'equations' directly in terms of the transfinite recursive composition of symmetric potential differences in the grand unified field. This is very similar to the way ZFC is defined, except my system simulates the generation of itself from the transfinite recursive composition of symmetric differences in an energy field instead of requiring an observer to generate it from the transfinite recursive composition of empty sets. The problem with empty sets is they represent nonexistence, and nonexistence is incompatible with existence. There is no such thing as nonexistence because it is impossible to destroy any energy, let alone all of it. Because energy always exists, non-existence is a physical impossibility. Hence, relative to existence, mathematicians erred in one of their most foundational assumptions -the existence of nonexistence.

My approach is far superior to current mathematics because it can generate itself, write its own equations, and execute those equations, all without the apriori need for observers, observation, or consciousness. What's more, it can do all of this without the need for any starting assumptions, beyond the inability to destroy the infinite singularity aka, the grand unified field.

The infinite singularity is infinite precisely because there are no differences in the energy it contains. That means no potential differences, no differences in phase angle, no differences in spin, no dimensions, no mass, no gravity, no properties, and no boundary. Since no differences can exist in the singularity, there is no way to distinguish between any state x and its logical complement. In turn, that means it can't have any state, or any dimension, or any boundary or property. It can still have a potential, but that potential can only be defined by something finite relative to something finite (like the gravitational field that compresses the energy in the singularity into singularity and contains it).

Existence must be complete becuase existence is the universe and the universe is everything that exists. Everything that exists (as individuals, in any combination of individuals, and the totality of all individuals) is identical to itself. This cannot be denied, without denying the most fundamental foundation of logic itself.

Since everything in existence is itself, and is identical to itself, it must be consistent.

Since existence is all that exists, it can only be mathematically closed. Note that mathematical closure has nothing to do with whether something is static or dynamic, or has a fixed definition or one that changes. It just means that every operation it performs computes a result that is included in the set that defines its closure (its domain and range). For example, addition is closed under the addition of integers because no matter what integers we add, we get another integer. Direct mathematics is mathematically closed because it generates all its mathematical operators and every possible result using the transfinite recursive composition of symmetric differences - which is a closed operation under transfinite induction. In fact, closure under direct mathematics is much stronger than that in current mathematics, because direct mathematics generates all of itself and everything it generates is itself. By definition its domain, range, and codomain is, and can only be the entire universe. Furthermore, by strict mathematical induction and construction, it can only represent that which exists directly. It generates the representation of everything that exists in terms of direct representation. Lest you worry about indirect representation, it is an extension of direct representation and can be represented by direct representation, whereas the converse is not true. Direct representation cannot be consistently represented by indirect representation. In fact, indirect representation can't represent anything directly.

Direct representation is the logical converse of indirect representation. While mathematics based on indirect representation is incomplete and/or inconsistent, mathematics based on direct representation is both complete and consistent. In fact the cause of incompleteness and inconsistency in current mathematics is its reliance on indirect representation. It is its dependence on observation and indirect symbolic representation. Direct representation is the ONLY way to avoid incompleteness and inconsistency. In indirect representation, nothing represents itself. In other words the symbols that represents a thing are never the same thing as the thing they represent. Conversely, in direct representation, the process that represents direct representation can only represent itself. In turn that process generates new higher order processes, that can only represent themselves. Physically, the way this works is that all differences are finite. All differences in the grand unified field are a difference in its potential. That difference is the energy that composes it. That potential difference also is the force that creates the changes required to execute the process it represents. Thus the process, its representation, and its execution are all represented by the SAME thing. Therefore, nothing in the universe can ever be inconsistent, because everything that exists can only represent its own existence. Therefore, the representation is self-limiting and it can ONLY generate that which exists. Instead of the uncertainty of indirect representation and information, there is only the certainty of direct representation.

Please note that certainty does not preclude the existence of randomness, provided that randomness is consistently represented and consistently generated, just like the non-random components of existence.

In direct mathematics, consciousness, observers and observation are not apriori assumptions. They are generated by existence as part of existence in the due course of time, after the complexity their existence depends on has been generated.

I'll try to address your other points separately.

Kind regards,

Barry

Hi Wilhelmus

"Our five senses ask for the reference of reference, which cannot be found in our causal material reality."

I have solved the semantic grounding problem, or as you call it the source of the "reference of reference". It definitely exists as part of causal material reality. Please see the attachment below for details. I have actually reduced semantic grounding to the level of mathematical equations. Alas, the spatiotemporal relations between the flow of ions inside the neurons dendritic trees is a fundamental part of their knowledge representation. This cannot be simulated without also simulating the solid geometry of the neural network and all its synaptic connections.

"We all have a subjective reality that is presented as a simultaneity sphere around our consciousness. Consciousness not being a material entity with length or volume, can be treated as a singularity."

Wow. Thats quite a leap. I agree that all conscious observers have a subjective reality, but there is no need to place subjectivity or consciousness outside causality.

Part of your statement seems to be a category error. Consciousness is not an entity or a thing like an atom or molecule or a box of rocks. It is the result of an electrochemical ionic exchange process that operates over a biological neural network. That process changes neural connection patterns via neural and synaptic plasticity. It also changes the "weight" or synaptic efficicy of synaptic connections, and most importantly, it represents meaning via the dynamic interactions in the flow of electrotonic potentials through the neurons dendritic trees. The dynamic interactions between electrotonic potential flows directly represent the higher order composition of abstract relations between higher order abstractions. It can be thought of as dynamically generating a system of higher order equations where those equations are represented by abstractions. An abstraction is a partial representation of a concept or thing or a relation between things or a process in some context. Abstractions are represented by systems of higher order functors, i.e., systems of functions that can take functions or higher order compositions of functions as arguments and return a function or higher order composition of functions as a result. The execution of those abstract equations is represented by the spatiotemporal integration of electrotonic potentials as they flow through the neurons dendritic trees. In essence, these are functions of abstractions, functions of space and functions of time. Thus, in addition to representing how things relate to each other functionally, they can represent how those functions relate to each other in space and time, as well as how they vary over space and time. In a sense the neuron operates like a combination lock that has many different combinations. The systems of equations it represents are satisfied if the resulting dendritic integration of its electrotonic potentials exceeds the neurons action potential activation threshold. When that happens, the neuron fires its axon, thereby signalling the detection of whatever abstraction the neuron represents in the current context of thought. The firing of the axon is an all or nothing event. It does not encode any information. There is no neural code. The firing of the axon only signals the detection of an instance of the abstraction represented by the neuron in the current context of thought. The timing of that signal is important relative to the timing of that neurons synaptic inputs, and electrotonic potential conduction times and distances, but it does not carry or encode any information in and of itself. In fact, neurons are more like signal processors than information processors. They exchange signals with each other, but those signals don't carry information and they do not represent any kind of message. It is a simple all or nothing signal, like turning on a light switch. The meaning is conveyed via the spatio temporal relationships between the firing of dendritic synapses and the subsequent spatiotemporal integration of the resulting electrotonic potentials. Its a kind of spacetime computer. It computes everything in four dimensions. The neuron doesn't have to 'know' what it represents in any abstract sense, it just needs to represent the fact that if a particular combination of synapses is fired with a specific set of relative firing times, then one of the abstractions represented by one of the spatiotemporal abstract equations it represents was satisfied, thereby directly causing it to fire its axon. The invariant is the neural connection patterns. Those are relatively stable after they occur enough times to be learned via the adjustment of synaptic 'weights'. In other words, the neuron simply represents whatever is represented by the relations it represents between the abstractions in its input. That process is inductive, and constructive, functionally composing higher order abstractions and their relations starting from the activation of sensory neurons from one or more of our senses.

Consciousness is definitely a material entity because it is created by neurons, and those are all composed of matter and energy, no different than the matter and energy that compose the rest of existence. The brain exists in spacetime and operates according to the known laws of physics. Conventional physics and electrochemistry already contain everything needed to understand its components. The problem is science understands what the brain is composed of and how the parts work, but it doesn't understand how those parts work together to represent knowledge or compute meaning or consciousness. it doesn't understand what is significant to knowledge representation, computation and consciousness and what is there only because it is needed to implement neural computation in a biological substrate. Currently, its like trying to understand how a computer program works by studying it at the level of the individual transistors in a microprocessor. A lot of fundamental detail about neurotransmitters and synapses and ion channels, and electrochemistry and physics exists, but there is little understanding of how neurons use all of that to represent knowledge, meaning, thought, and consciousness. What is missing isn't new physics or electrochemistry, it is an understanding of the brains' neural knowledge representation and neural computational model. I discovered those several years ago and provided a high level summary in the attachment below. Much more detail is available should you desire it.Attachment #1: 1_Reply_to_I_as_observer.pdf

Hi Barry, Your interpretation of consciousness is the one of someone who thinks he is able to "construct" it himself. In your approach it is just the reductionist one, go back and back and back untill you arrive at zero or at onother infinty. I enjoy very much your thinking because also learn a lot from it, surely about the mechanism of thinking. However I "think" taht thinking is one of processes that lead to the "emergence" of consciousness, like the bits in a computer forming a line of information, the real content or better "meaning" of this information can be interpreted by the observer and each observer can have a different interpretation of the data, this cannot be taken bach with reductionism.

As far as I know you are the one who "invented" a new form of intelligence, and the word "intelligence" already covers the load. We need intelligence to "understand", without intelligence no understanding. But when you understand the processes of the brain like you do (now I also can understand it thanks to your explanations) this does not mean that the logical result will be consciousness (my interpretation,does not mean that it is the truth), I just think that our causal universe is not complete, it is only a part of a greater system (Total Simultaneity). In my earlier essay " REALITIES OUT OF TOTAL SIMULTANEITY" I proposed the devellopment of a quantum computer being the origin of new "consciousness", this form of consciousness could have other senses to explore the TS but also could communicate with our own form of consciousness so that we could also contact paralel universes and so on, it is because of the fact that this quantum computer had almost infinite probable solutions that were already available even when he was not yet under "power" that I could generate this new form of consciousness. So my reductionism in this approach is in principle also materialistic, but the consciousness is still "emerging".

I just thougt of a new thought experiment: If we have the double slit experiment then when an observer is aware of the photon(s) emitted the photon is staying particle, if not observed by an intelligent creature : wave. So if your "intelligence" is observing the experiment the result will be particle if it is "aware", if not : particle. The problem in this experiment is that we are also observing the intelligence so we are influencing the result. But perhaps you can think of a solution.

Kind regards

Wilhelmus