• [deleted]

No Joy. Gravity and inertia are more fundamental to physics than quantum theory. Here's why: Fundamental gravitational and inertial equivalency and balancing (both at half strength/force) fundamentally demonstrates F=ma. (Acceleration is fundamentally balanced and averaged in keeping therewith as well.) My essay clearly demonstates/proves this. Real/true quantum gravity requires fundamental inertial and gravitational equivalency and balancing in conjunction with balanced and equivalent attraction and repulsion, the fact that gravity cannot be shielded, and instantaneity. A larger space must be made smaller, and a smaller space must be made larger.

Giovanni -- Einstein's GR never fundamentally and truly combined, balanced, and included inertia and gravity, and it never fundamentally demonstrated F=ma.

Accordingly, GR never accounted for stabilized (and fundamental) distance in/of space in and with time.

Time requires gravity -- another flaw of GR. The ultimate understanding of physics combines, balances, and includes opposites. MATHEMATICS CANNOT COMBINE, BALANCE, AND INCLUDE OPPOSITES.

Fundamental gravitational and inertial equivalency and balancing (both at half strength/force) fundamentally and truly involves balanced and equivalent attraction and repulsion. Gravity must be reduced proportionate to the extent that inertia is increased. Only our growth and development can fundamentally, theoretically, and generally unify physics. My essay proves all of this, in fact and in detail.

Indeed, the self represents, forms, and experiences a comprehensive approximztion of experience in general by combining conscious and unconscious experience.

I have fundamentally and generally unified physics. Can you review and rate my essay Giovanni?

Dear Giovanni,

Quantum mechanics says: if something cannot be measured, this does not exist. Your answer to me show on this property (nonexistence) for interior of a black hole. Admittedly, it is not absolutely clear, if your examples really means nonexistence of measurement.

The second is my argument in my essay that this interior is a similar "almost impossible thing" as tahions.

The third argument is what you hinted in your essay.

The fourth argument is that this is not contradictory supposition.

etc..

It is also interesting your use of imaginary numbers in physics. My article gives a simple argument for nonexistence of space-time, but besides, it here is also one example for use of imaginary numbers. Imaginary distance between two events in space-time of Minkowski means that signaling between these two events is not possible. Your imaginary speed at tunneling can give a similar pedagogical conclusion ...

One essay with this idea of emergent space-time is also of Dribus. I suspect it we are not the only one here.

I am very sure that space-time is emergent. It is not problem to me to bet with someone. Do you also? :)

P.S.

Do you know Italian form of name Janko. The answer is hidden in this post. :)

If you do not understand why your rating dropped down. As I found ratings in the contest are calculated in the next way. Suppose your rating is [math]R_1 [/math] and [math]N_1 [/math] was the quantity of people which gave you ratings. Then you have [math]S_1=R_1 N_1 [/math] of points. After it anyone give you [math]dS [/math] of points so you have [math]S_2=S_1+ dS [/math] of points and [math]N_2=N_1+1 [/math] is the common quantity of the people which gave you ratings. At the same time you will have [math]S_2=R_2 N_2 [/math] of points. From here, if you want to be R2 > R1 there must be: [math]S_2/ N_2>S_1/ N_1 [/math] or [math] (S_1+ dS) / (N_1+1) >S_1/ N_1 [/math] or [math] dS >S_1/ N_1 =R_1[/math] In other words if you want to increase rating of anyone you must give him more points [math]dS [/math] then the participant`s rating [math]R_1 [/math] was at the moment you rated him. From here it is seen that in the contest are special rules for ratings. And from here there are misunderstanding of some participants what is happened with their ratings. Moreover since community ratings are hided some participants do not sure how increase ratings of others and gives them maximum 10 points. But in the case the scale from 1 to 10 of points do not work, and some essays are overestimated and some essays are drop down. In my opinion it is a bad problem with this Contest rating process. I hope the FQXI community will change the rating process.

Sergey Fedosin

Dear Giovanni,

As I said in my first post I have read your essay with great interest.

After reading your essay again I thought that you might like to read something that was once intended to be my diploma thesis (in a quiet longer and more complicated version). : About the length of world lines ... (my essay)

My abstract could be like this:

There is a way to test if the metric (based on the notion of distance, given by the Minkowski norm) tying space and time to space-time really exists.

By using an assumption that is (WLOG) weaker then the assumption that has been used to derive Minkowski norm, we can see that reversed triangle inequality (one of the three conditions that have to be met for space and time to be a four-dimensional metric space) is violated. Thus space and time can not be seen as a four-dimensional metric space.

Kind regards,

Frank

  • [deleted]

Giovanni, General Relativity is lacking: instantaneity, fundamental inertial and gravitational equivalency and balancing, gravity cannot be shielded, fundamental F=ma, fundamentally balanced and equivalent attraction and repulsion, invisible and visible space in fundamental equilibrium and balance, fundamentally stabilized and balanced distance in/of space in and with time.

(Physics happens in AND with time.) Physics cannot fundamentally step outside of time.

It is amazing that GR falls is so highly regarded given that it clearly falls far short of demonstrating the above. The above fundamentally and generally exposes the deficiencies and failings of GR.

The Equivalence Principle does not fundamentally and truly demonstrate inertial and gravitational equivalency and balancing OR F=ma.

You ignored my prior post and essay. My essay proves everything in the first paragraph, and it fundamentally and generally reveals the limits of physical understanding and description.

  • [deleted]

You mainstreamsians controle science for over 50 years. You mainstream and Hawking failed. The bad science is because of the Top-Down controle of the people like you. Why do you need money and fame from FQXI where the authors are mostly jobless, are mostly independent researchers, are mostly viXra.org authers? Do you need money and fame by controling jobless???

I want to rate you 0!

  • [deleted]

You mainstreamsians controle science for over 50 years. You mainstream and Hawking failed. The bad science is because of the Top-Down controle of the people like you. Why do you need money and fame from FQXI where the authors are mostly jobless, are mostly independent researchers, are mostly viXra.org authers? Do you need money and fame by controling jobless???

I want to rate you 0!

Giovanni

Jin He's comment is badly targeted here, but he does have a point. There is far too much complacency and arrogance among your colleagues. Please never lower your own approach to their standards. Open minds and fresh ides rule.

Good essay, and good score. I'd love your views on our logical Copenhagen.

Matt

Hi everyone

the last few days were remarkably busy for me. A combination of strange italian-style rules make the first week of october at Sapienza University the time when most students must finalize their undegraduate, master or PhD theses. The fact I like to follow and work with students has the little downside of creating this challenge for me every first week of october.

I postpone commenting on other recent posts until I have had time to recover, over the weekend. But I felt compelled to offer some comments immediately in relation to Matt's post

I would say that Jim He's post is prototypical of why the "report post as inappropriate" button exists. But I will not reports it as inappropriate for at least two reasons:

1. I want it to be visible that someone on the planet thinks I am mainstream. That was one label I was missing, probably for good reasons. But it is cool to have that label at least once.

2. Jim opted to be simply unpolite/rude, but implicit in his rude comments is a point that one could legitimately raise (I think the point is actually wrong, but I still think it could be legitimately raised)

Concerning arrogance: I do find that some of my colleagues are pretty arrogant (and maybe others feel that I am arrogant), but it seems to me that FQXi tends to attract an anomalously large proportion of non-arrogant scientists. And this is partly related to the spirit of FQXi which essentially allows Jim to express his thoughts in the way he expressed them. In this I see a paradox.

regards

Giovanni

    7 days later
    • [deleted]

    I don't understand why used word "nonnegligible"?

    I can not found this word in many English vocabularIes

    Why double "no"?

    • [deleted]

    I totally agree admit a quantum gravity problem as a pseudoproblem

    12 days later

    Dear Giovanni Amelino-Camelia,

    As time emerges with the dynamics of the peripheral end of an eigen-rotational string-segment in Coherently-cyclic cluster-matter paradigm of universe, space-time is expressional as discrete closed loops in holarchy, in that discrete cyclic-times is descriptive. Thus the implication of this scenario of space-time abstraction in quantum tunnelling differs, in that string-matter continuum is expressional.

    With best wishes

    Jayakar

    • [deleted]

    Peter, re.your reply to Giovanni

    I disagree with the quoted statement."observers in relative motion do not share the same time." The observers must occupy (and thus share) the same and only 'foundational' time but observe different times (so not sharing the same) due to the way in which data is received and processed into their individual experiences. That might sound pedantic or unnecessarily complicating matters but I think it is very important to make the distinction between the foundational reality and the emergent reality. It is necessary to overcome the temporal paradoxes and unite QM and GR.

    I suppose there was a touch of calling you 'mainstream' in my post to you, if so I'm sorry! I found your essay to be one of the very best anyway.

    Best wishes, Jonathan

    Georgina

    Considering the statement in context I think Giovani meant what I mean and make clear in my essay, which is I am sure also what you mean; This is that there are TWO cases, where current science considers only the fundamental absolute case.

    So we are here considering OBSERVERS or OBSERVED rate of passage of time as the second case, which then varies between all observers in different states of motion.

    But the far more important implication of this is hidden in the definition of motion. i.e. 'motion' wrt what? We assume we know but in fact we only assume, and assume wrongly! We need a consistent background frame, but also one that is NOT 'absolute'! i.e. always a LOCAL background frame! Think hard about that for a moment. We yet have no consistent intuitive formalism for that in physics.

    To help, perhaps envisage this; 3 giant room sized balloons of clear plastic, each with a clock suspended at its centre. If you are at rest with a clock in your own balloon, as the others move around you you will see the apparent rate of time of each is subject to their motion wrt you. OK?

    But now, in turn, enter each of the other balloons and float at rest within each (requiring a different acceleration each time). In each case you will then see the rate of time from the clock co-ordinated with your own. Yet all the other clocks will appear to run at different speeds each time.

    This is because you can only use, and find, 'Proper Time' when IN the frame ('state of motion') of the clock you are observing. This means that if, back in your OWN balloon, you move on the same vector as another balloon, you see the rate of time from that balloons clock as matching your own. But again if your balloon then accelerates, that will cease to be the case! If the emitting balloon is also moving wrt the background between the balloons, then the light propagating outside the balloons does c wrt the background NOT any of the balloons, i.e. c = dt.

    This means logically that the time signals move at c through the skin and within the medium in your balloon with respect to the local state of motion of your balloon, (as always found experimentally, and as the SR postulates).

    Now think very carefully about the implications of that. If each balloon with a different state of motion represents an inertial frame, with the skin as the physical boundary, (light is absorbed and scattered to c/n at the skin as we know) each balloon and it's contents represents a 'local frame' within which light does c.

    Now we consider that the background within which they all float may be the space within a giant balloon, which moves within it's own background. The same rules all apply. Suddenly now we have the precise structure of truth propositional logic (TPL)! hierarchically nested 'entities' which can only have a relevant 'speed' with respect to the 'next largest' or LOCAL BACKGROUND entity. This structure is relevant for balloons the size of electrons to those the size of universes. Applying that structure, all the anomalies and paradoxes disappear.

    That's also the basis of propositional dynamic logic (PDL), which I discuss in my essay. It was difficult to assimilate that kinetic structure in one reading of the essay. Many glimpsed it but few grasped it as it's unfamiliar. Can you do so now?

    Best wishes

    Peter

    Dear Giovanni,

    I don't think that spacetime is redundant (at least not in a fully relativistic theory) for reasons explained in my essay , so I have been silent on the interesting and bold questions raised in your well written and well argued piece. I did chuckle, though, at the irony of protesting "mainstreamian" participation in the contest. It isn't the first time I have heard the message that "you insiders don't need the money or recogniition, so why don't you leave the competition to the amateurs and the unknowns?"

    Jin, it isn't all about money and recognition. By definition, the mainstream dominates every professional field. FQXi's noble and inclusive mission is to allow minority and amateur ideas to openly compete on the main stage of cutting edge physics -- and I, for one, think that it's doing an outstanding job. Only "mainstreamian" participation makes that goal even possible. I wish more of the mainstream would come out and play.

    Tom

    • [deleted]

    Peter,

    I absolutely get that each observer experiences their own time whether sitting inside a balloon or not. The first half of the reply is just talking about relativity as we know it and that's all perfectly clear so a big OK. Then you start to talk about the speed of 'time signals'.I hope we can agree that there is a difference between a signal carrying potential data and the time in the universe outside of the 'information' carried by the signal.

    Scale is interesting,important and somewhat neglected. Though its an interesting , different and potentially useful way of thinking about what is being observed on astronomical scales, does bringing scale into relativity theory really answer "all of the anomalies and paradoxes"?

    I think it is important to remember that objects that are treated as static by relativity are not static at larger scales of consideration and neglecting that unobserved total motion over all scales has caused problems -such as- mis-attributing the cause of gravity. The big problem IMHO is always taking how it appears, to be how it is. An abstract description of what is being observed while fitting the observations does not necessarily account for them at a foundational level. That's not dismissing what you have said as irrelevant, uninteresting or unimportant but questioning how foundational the analysis.

    Common understanding in physics is that with clocks we measure time as a 4th dimension of space-time in which material change run. This understanding is contradictory to the experimental measurement of time where we measure with clocks a numerical order of material changes which run in a 3D space. Measurement of numerical order of material changes with clocks confirms time is exclusively a mathematical quantity dependent on the run of material changes. Material changes, i.e. motion run in a 3D space and time is their numerical order. Mass of elementary particles has origin in a diminished energy density of a 3D space.

    2 months later
    • [deleted]

    hallo there, I came across this paper during these Christmas holydays, through FB.

    I've got a point or two about the issue, which I'd like to discuss - at best, perhaps, with the author himself, Giovanni.

    ( BTW: I'm italian, so if he should come across this comment he may, of course, reply in italian )

    Not knowing if a comment, written 2 months from the last one published, will even be read, I'm a little reluctant to write extensively my point of view, but I'll take myself some time to present some keywords and basic ideas. I hope I'm not doing this for nothing... for once that I encounter a VERY interesting article, it HAD to be on a page that no-one probably ever visits any more! ;-))

    ======================

    COMMENT to the paper:

    ======================

    Firstly, I find the space-time inference absurd: to postulate an universe giving itself the hard work of building en entire 4D (or more!!) continuum with highly complex mathematical properties, is insane to the least; that's why I completely agree with the historical/operational explanation of our "space-time-way-of-thinking" given in the paper. Also, a scheme of the type "emitter-detector" can be helpful to investigate some aspects of the entire problem, reducing it down to its essentials. Thus: reductionism, approved ;-)

    (THE BEEF): My understanding is that 'space-time' is a complex construct, most probably EMERGING as an average reference frame for classical objects with no underlying reality of its own. A continuous, local (as opposed to "non local" in Bell's sense) classical-relativistic reality, though, holds for EVENTS in space-time, and cannot be eluded.

    But EVENTS are classical phenomena, they are described by 'macro-states'. A macro-states consists of an incredibly numerous collection of micro(or quantum) states; it is a portion in the configurations' space, that ends up coherently describing a shared overall picture.

    This "shared overall picture", we call 'classical world' and it obeys relativity, causality, and locality (in the sense of Bell).

    In my picture, however, the shared overall is only a kind of "average", consisting of a huge number of micro-states, all of them describing alternate "little" stories about the numerous constituents of the macro-system, à la "sum over stories" (Feynman).

    The expansion of one portion of the configurations' space, necessary to produce a "new" (or, better: "different") macro-state generally happens in a measuring device; the coherent description of a defined macrostate with its classical properties (position, time, momentum, energy, etc..) we call the "outcome", is classical, and could be highly non-linear

    As a matter of fact, a micro-state (describing a single quantum object, or phenomenon) isn't observable, and if this is to become observable, the microstate must necessarily undergo an amplification through a measuring device, of the type "avalanche expansion" (snowball amplification).

    The measure process will then eventually produce an outcome, which is a classical one.

    No quantum microstates can ever be observed, only their amplifications.

    More than that: my idea is that only certain amplifications can be observed, and so can be christened "real": in those observable configurations a large enough number of microstates coherently describes a classical, physically self-consistent picture (*), that most other microstates in the universe will share form that very point onwards.

    On one side, the measuring device is clearly entangled with the totality of all of the microstates involved in the measure process in the laboratory, but, on the other side, it also communicates the classical results with the rest of the classical world.

    Once we rename the term "communicate the classical result" with the periphrasis "is a coherent description via a very large number of microstates, which differ only by a tiny quantity, but give the same overall picture, all entangled with observers across the rest of the universe" we get that the measuring system is quantum mechanically entangled with everything else, also on the other side, but mainly via macro-states.

    ==========================

    [1] Some curiosities tend to enforce this sight, in my opinion: in certain carefully prepared experiments, e.g., a particle is observed in two locations at the same time, or other "oddities" can be produced (super-conductivity, super-fluidity, Bose-Einstein condensates, etc...).

    But these "oddities" are achievable only in conditions special enough that they only can happen through special arrangements of detectors in which particular attention is given to the segregation of the experiment from the rest of the universe.

    In this case, it seems that oddities can be sustained as long as little or virtually no communication happens with the world outside the laboratory, thus via segregation from the rest of the universe.

    Outside of a laboratory environment, "oddities" generally do not survive for an enough long time to be observed by passers-by, before degenerating to dull defined 'classical' states.

    ==========================

    During the measure process, a number of "stories" can theoretically be connected with the microstate examined, that will eventually produce alternate outcomes. Rarely (see [1]) these outcomes can both exist at the same time.

    But why is so ? in my picture, it is conceivable, that different outcomes are related to different portions of the configurations' space of the system (microstate to analyze + "antenna" microstates in the measuring device) and perhaps the amplification process favours one groups of stories more than another, and the entire universe is then entangled with the option (group of micro-stories) that has more "offspring" outnumbering other possible outcomes.

    This - and only this group of stories, or macrostate

    [[ apart from exceptions in which an equilibrium can be maintained (with significant effort) between more possible outcomes, in the sense of [1] ]]

    becomes "real" in the sense that we can observe it, and every physical system relying upon the measuring result will be entangled with all the microstates produced by the amplification, via an incredibly large number of quantum interactions.

    We are talking astronomic numbers, here, as a single detection generally involves a number, N, of the order or 10^20 particles, with a configurations' space portion that can expand of a number in the order of magnitude of N, but factorial !!

    The collection of micro-states that is comprised in a group of stories that only differ by a tiny little bit (ħ, fro example ?!?!) from one another describe the very same picture, but slightly different. It is a fundamental property of microstates' statistics in a snowball expansion, that the outcomes will concentrate around a bell-shaped curve, of the Gaussian type

    These outcomes relate to one another creating, in my picture, a network of ever-growing degrees of freedom, where some properties can be interpreted as localizations in space, and in time.

    Lastly: I have indirect proof that this approach could be the right one for a better model of QM, and some of these concern the nature of space-.time on large scale. This line of thinking goes so far, as to account for galaxy stability without dark matter, or even to change significantly our understanding of the universe's dynamics at very large scale (structure of the order of magnitude of the "great wall", filaments, or even the cosmic expansion rate, the dark energy problem and the like).

    For the next times, however, my goal would be to show that in a so constructed space.-time, a limit would emerge: an insuperable velocity only for macro-states transporting information, whereas everything else could be thought of as non local in space and timeless (or: "non local" in time sense).

    My aim is to make a specially relativistic space-time of EVENTS just out of nothing thought of as being local. Is it crazy enough? Any comments?

    Kind regards, just in case... ;-)

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