Michel,

I reread your paper again this last Sunday. The desin d'enfant leads at the end to Mermin's pentagons. These are of course an aspect of the Kochen-Specker theorem. This is of course the main theorem on contextuality in QM. In my paper I discuss the quantum homotopies of associators at various dimensions, which are pentagonal systems. I copy this post on my essay blog page, so you can respond to this there as well.

I notice you have considerable interest in the G_2 group, which is the automorphism of the E8 group. The F_4 group is a centralizer in E8, whereby G_2 action keep it fixed; the elements of F_4 and G_2 commute.

The Kochen-Specker theorem is connected with the F_4 group, or the 24 cell. The 117 projectors with the original KS theorem in 3-dim Hilbert space is simplified by considering a four dimensional Hilbert space, or a system of 4 qubits. This involves only 18 projector operators. The space 24-cells is a system of root vectors for the F_4 group. Each root vector is paired with its negative to define a line through the origin in 4d space. These 24 lines are the 24 rays of Peres. The root vectors are

1 (2,0,0,0) 2 (0,2,0,0) 3 (0,0,2,0) 4 (0,0,0,2)

5 (1,1,1,1) 6 (1,1,-1,-1) 7 (1,-1,1,-1) 8 (1,-1,-1,1)

9 (-1,1,1,1) 10 (1,-1,1,1) 11 (1,1,-1,1) 12 (1,1,1,-1)

13 (1,1,0,0) 14 (1,-1,0,0) 15 (0,0,1,1) 16 (0,0,1,-1)

17 (0,1,0,1) 18 (0,1,0,-1) 19 (1,0,1,0) 20 (1,0,-1,0)

21 (1,0,0,-1) 22 (1,0,0,1) 23 (0,1,-1,0) 24 (0,1,1,0)

(I hope this table works out here) Consider these as 24 quantum states |ψ_i>, properly normalized, in a 4 dimensionl Hilbert Space e.g. it might be a system of two qubits. For each state we can define a projection operator

P_i = |ψ_i)(ψ_i| --- I have to use parentheses because carrot signs fail in this blog.

P_i are are Hermitian operators with three eigenvlaues of 0 and one of 1. They can be considered as observables and we could set up an experimental system where we prepare states and measure these observables to check that they comply with the rules of quantum mechanics. There are sets of 4 operators which commute because the 4 rays they are based on are mutually orthogonal. An example would be the four operators P_1, P_2, P_3, P4.

Quantum mechanics tells us if we measure these commuting observables in any order we will end up with a state which is a common eigenvector i.e. one of the first four rays. The values of the observables will always be given by 1,0,0,0 in some order. This can be checked experimentally. There exist 36 sets of 4 different rays that are mutually orthogonal, but we just need 9 of them as follows:

{P2, P4, P19, P20}

{P10, P11, P21, P24}

{P7, P8, P13, P15}

{P2, P3, P21, P22}

{P6, P8, P17, P19}

{P11, P12, P14, P15}

{P6, P7, P22, P24}

{P3, P4, P13, P14}

{P10, P12, P17, P20}

At this point you need to check two things, firstly that each of these sets of 4 observables are mutually commuting because the rays are othogonal, secondly that there are 18 observables each of which appears in exactly two sets.

Now assume there is some hidden variable theory which explains this system and which reproduces all the predictions of quantum mechanics. At any given moment the system is in a definite state, and values for each of the 18 operators are determined. The values must be 0 or 1. with the rules they are equal to 1 for exactly one observable in each of the 9 sets, the other three values in each set will be 0. Consequently, there must be nine values set to one overall. This leads to a contradiction, for each observable appears twice so which ever observables have the value of 1 there will always be an even number of ones in total, and 9 is not even.

To add another ingredient into this mix I reference , which illustrates how the Kochen-Specker result is an aspect of the 24-cell. The 24-cell has a number of representations. The full representation is the F_4 group with 1154 Hurwitz quaternions. The other is the B_4, which is the 16 cell Plus an 8-cell, and the other is D_4 which is three 8-cells. The more general automorphism is then F_4. The quotient between the 52 dimensional F_4 and the 36 dimensional so(9) ~ B_4 defines the short exact sequence

F_4/B_4:1 --> spin(9) --> F_{52\16} --> {\cal O}P^2 --> 1,

where F_{52\16} means F_4 restricted to 36 dimensions, which are the kernel of the map to the 16 dimensional Moufang or Cayley plane OP^2. The occurrence of 36 and 9 is no accident, and this is equivalent to the structure used to prove the KS theorem.

F_4 is the isometry group of the projective plane over the octonions. There are extensions to this where the bi-ocotonions CxO have the isometry group E_6, HxO has E_7 and OxO has E_8. This forms the basis of the "magic square." F_4 plays a prominent role in the bi-octonions, which is J^3(O) or the Jordan algebra as the automorphism which preserves the determinant of the Jordan matrix

The exceptional group G_2 is the automorphism on O, or equivalently that F_4xG_2 defines a centralizer on E_8. The fibration G_2 --> S^7 is completed with SO(8), where the three O's satisfy the triality condition in SO(8). The G_2 fixes a vector basis in S^7 according to the triality condition on vectors V \in J^3(O) and spinors θ in O, t:Vxθ_1xθ_2 --> R. The triality group is spin(8) and a subgroup spin(7) will fix a vector in V and a spinor in θ_1. To fix a vector in spin(7) the transitive action of spin(7) on the 7-sphere with spin(7)/G_2 = S^7 with dimensions

dim(G_2) = dim(spin(7)) - dim(S^7) = 21 - 7 = 14.

The G_2 group in a sense fixes a frame on the octonions, and has features similar to a gauge group. The double covering so(O) ~= so(8) and the inclusion g_2 \subset spin(8) determines the homomorphism g_2 hook--> spin(8) --> so(O). The 1-1 inclusion of g_2 in so(O) maps a 14 dimensional group into a 28 dimensional group. This construction is remarkably similar to the moduli space construction of Duff et al. .

Cheers LC

    Dear Lawrence,

    Thank you for these scholarly remarks.

    About the 18-9 proof and the 24-cell, there is the interesting work of Waegell and Aravind http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/1103.6058. I like to see the 9 bases and 18 rays as the vertices and edges of the Mermin square, as explained in equation (6) of http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/1204.4275. Now there is the dessin d'enfant of Fig. 3 of my essay that adds the algebraic curve/Riemmann surface view to this building block of two-qubit contextuality.

    As you emphasize well, the next step is about the building blocks of three-qubit contextuality, they are related to G2 and E8. I already met the Weyl group of E8 for three qubits and see it as just one step of a higher order hierachy leadind to the Leech lattice, as in http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/1002.4287.

    For sure you would also have something to say about this.

    All the best,

    Michel

    Michel,

    I don't have as much time this morning to expand on this, so I will just make this rather brief for now. I will try to expand on this later today or tomorrow.

    The three-qubit entanglement corresponds to a BPS black hole. The four qubit entanglement is the case of an extremal black hole. I think there is an underlying relationship between functions of the form (ψ|ψ) = F(ψψψ), an elliptic curve with the cubic form corresponding to the 3-qubit, and the "bounding" Jacobian curve that defines a quartic for G(ψψψψ). This I think is some sort of cohomology.

    The G2 I think defines a frame bundle on the E8 which defines the F4 condition for 18 rays in the spacetime version of Kochen-Specker.

    As I said I should have more time later to discuss this in greater depth.

    Cheers LC

    5 days later

    Torsten,

    I finally got a little bit of time to write more on what I had mused about a couple of weeks ago. This all seems to center in a way around a type of cobordism with respect to these replacements of handles or Casson handles. The replacement of a circle with a knot suggests a type of theory that involves Hopf links. The trefoil for instance is by the Jones polynomial such that a left - right trefoil equals a Hopf link.

    The manifold constructed from the knot K is

    M_k = ((M^3\D^2xS^1)xS^1)∪_T^3 ((S^3\(D^2xK))xS^1).

    On the left the R^1 in M^4 = M^3xR is replaced by S^1, and we can think of the S^1 as a periodic cycle with a real number line as a covering. Think of a wheel rolling on the real number line, or a spiral covering of a circle. In this setting the crux of the matter involves replacing a circle S^1 with a knot K. Physically this avoids topologies with circular time or closed timelike loops such as the Godel universe. The S^1 to the right of each expression is the embedding "time cycle" and the three manifolds of interest are (M^3\D^2xS^1) and S^3\(D^2xK). In a thin sandwich, a narrow section of spacetime separated by two spatial surfaces, we may think of the bottom spatial surface or bread slice as (M^3\D^2xS^1) and the second one as S^3\(D^2xK). We might further be so bold as to say the bottom surface is a left handed trefoil and there is a superposition of two surfaces, one with a right handed trefoil and the other with two S^1s in a link. There is then a type of cobordism between the bottom slice of bread and the top, which in this case might be a map from (M^3\D^2xS^1) ∪_T^3 S^3\(D^2xLT), for LT = left refoil to (M^3\D^2xS^1★S^1)∪_T^3 S^3\(D^2xRT). There the star means linking.

    This is a theory of topology change in spacetime, or of some underlying topological change in topology which still maintains an "overall smooth" structure. This is then a type of topological quantum field theory (TQFT). A TQFT just means a theory that is a quantum field theory up to homotopy. This is a way of looking at fields (eg the knots as Wilson loops of fields) according to the underlying space they exist on. This approach amounts to cutting up the space into pieces, examining the fields there and then looking at the entire ensemble (pieces up back). This then has an underlying locality to it this way. However, the connection between knot polynomials and quantum groups indicates there is also something nonlocal as well.

    This conjecture means that TQFT assigns data to all possible geometric element to a space, from a 0-dim point to the full manifold in an n-dim cobordism. For a space of n-dimensions there is a functor F

    F:bord_n^f --- > A

    For A an algebra. The algebra is the generator of the group G = quantum group. Physically the algebra corresponds to the connection coefficients A which form the Wilson loops ∮A•dx = ∫∫∇•Ada (to express this according to basic physics). This is a sort of Grothendieck topos or category system, which relates a knot group with a cobordism. I conjecture that a complete understanding of this system is a TQFT.

    I will write in greater detail later on this, for I have sketched out some of this. Physically (or philosophically if you will) the description of spacetime this way is I think equivalent to a description of TQFT in general. In fact one result of the AdS/CFT correspondence is that a 4-spacetime as the boundary of an AdS_5 is equivalent to 10-dim supergravity. The exotic structure of 4-dim manifolds may then be a manifestation of 10-dim supergravity.

    I copied this on my essay blog site, so if you respond to this there I get an email alert.

    Cheers LC

      Lawrence,

      thanks for the reply. Yes, I know TQFT like the Chern-Simons theory with Wilson lines leading to the knot polynomial.

      The Seiberg-Witten invariant for this exotic 4-manifold is the Alexcander polynomial, i.e. a knot polynomial but with a complicated TQFT. The Alexander polynomial is rather a classical then a quantum invariant.

      I will think about your ideas more carefully.

      Torsten

      Torsten,

      I have more of this sketched out. I wanted to write further today, but I got busy reviewing a paper. As for a classical invariant, check out Agung Budiyono's paper. It is the sort of idea of quantum mechanics that sends most quantum physicists screaming in horror. This is a stochastic approach to QM which along with the Bohm QM is weak, but these ideas I think can have their place.

      Cheers LC

      Dear

      Thank you for presenting your nice essay. I saw the abstract and will post my comments soon.

      So you can produce material from your thinking. . . .

      I am requesting you to go through my essay also. And I take this opportunity to say, to come to reality and base your arguments on experimental results.

      I failed mainly because I worked against the main stream. The main stream community people want magic from science instead of realty especially in the subject of cosmology. We all know well that cosmology is a subject where speculations rule.

      Hope to get your comments even directly to my mail ID also. . . .

      Best

      =snp

      snp.gupta@gmail.com

      http://vaksdynamicuniversemodel.blogspot.com/

      Pdf download:

      http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/essay-download/1607/__details/Gupta_Vak_FQXi_TABLE_REF_Fi.pdf

      Part of abstract:

      - -Material objects are more fundamental- - is being proposed in this paper; It is well known that there is no mental experiment, which produced material. . . Similarly creation of matter from empty space as required in Steady State theory or in Bigbang is another such problem in the Cosmological counterpart. . . . In this paper we will see about CMB, how it is generated from stars and Galaxies around us. And here we show that NO Microwave background radiation was detected till now after excluding radiation from Stars and Galaxies. . . .

      Some complements from FQXi community. . . . .

      A

      Anton Lorenz Vrba wrote on May. 4, 2013 @ 13:43 GMT

      ....... I do love your last two sentences - that is why I am coming back.

      Author Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta replied on May. 6, 2013 @ 09:24 GMT

      . . . . We should use our minds to down to earth realistic thinking. There is no point in wasting our brains in total imagination which are never realities. It is something like showing, mixing of cartoon characters with normal people in movies or people entering into Game-space in virtual reality games or Firing antimatter into a black hole!!!. It is sheer a madness of such concepts going on in many fields like science, mathematics, computer IT etc. . . .

      B.

      Francis V wrote on May. 11, 2013 @ 02:05 GMT

      Well-presented argument about the absence of any explosion for a relic frequency to occur and the detail on collection of temperature data......

      C

      Robert Bennett wrote on May. 14, 2013 @ 18:26 GMT

      "Material objects are more fundamental"..... in other words "IT from Bit" is true.

      Author Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta replied on May. 14, 2013 @ 22:53 GMT

      1. It is well known that there is no mental experiment, which produced material.

      2. John Wheeler did not produce material from information.

      3. Information describes material properties. But a mere description of material properties does not produce material.

      4. There are Gods, Wizards, and Magicians, allegedly produced material from nowhere. But will that be a scientific experiment?

      D

      Hoang cao Hai wrote on Jun. 16, 2013 @ 16:22 GMT

      It from bit - where are bit come from?

      Author Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta replied on Jun. 17, 2013 @ 06:10 GMT

      ....And your question is like asking, -- which is first? Egg or Hen?-- in other words Matter is first or Information is first? Is that so? In reality there is no way that Matter comes from information.

      Matter is another form of Energy. Matter cannot be created from nothing. Any type of vacuum cannot produce matter. Matter is another form of energy. Energy is having many forms: Mechanical, Electrical, Heat, Magnetic and so on..

      E

      Antony Ryan wrote on Jun. 23, 2013 @ 22:08 GMT

      .....Either way your abstract argument based empirical evidence is strong given that "a mere description of material properties does not produce material". While of course materials do give information.

      I think you deserve a place in the final based on this alone. Concise - simple - but undeniable.

        My mention of consciousness at the end, in connection with top-down physical or causal theories, was a bit conjectural. In a way I put that in there because I know a lot of people want to hear about consciousness and physics. Call it a bit of self-promotion.

        To be honest I don't know what role consciousness has with physcs or the universe. A lot of people think it is a quantum process. I don't know about that honestly. I think it could be argued that consciousness is the ultimate classical or macroscopic non-quantum system. Consciousness at least generates an epiphenonenon of wave function collapse.

        Cheers LC

        Dear S.Gupta,

        I will take a look at your paper soon. I have fallen behind in reading these papers because I have had to review or referee a paper for a journal. Thanks for the interest in my paper.

        Cheers LC

        This mathematics is involved with kissing numbers. The big sourcebook on this is Conway and SLoane, "Sphere Packing, Lattices and Codes." These spheres in the 4-dim case are connected to Planck units of volume. The packing system is the 24-cell or equivalently the F4 group.

        These systems are error correction codes. In the case of sporadic groups the quantum error correction is meromorphic which preserves quantum information. In the simple case there is no pole this recovers unitarity. In the study of this it is important to keep the connection to Jacobi theta functions. This also connects up with the Ramanujan Mock theta function and the partition function for the integers. This partition function is related to the density of states of a bosonic string as well as the thermal partition function of a black hole.

        There are deep relationships involved with this. My essay here is an attempt to lay down some physical arguments for this.

        Cheers LC

        Dear Lawrence,

        Congratulations on a well written essay dense with impressive references to many relevant issues raised by the fqxi contest question. The technical aspects of your discussion went over my head (and probably for many others here), particularly in the section about logic and in the applicability of the Incompleteness Theorem to the issues at hand.

        That said I could confidently say that I agree with several of your points: 1- The need for a 'philosophy' to approach questions of Reality in physics. 2- The undecidability of It/Bit 3- That a density matrix allows the expression of quantum states as qubits (which was my conclusion). In my Theory (see below) GR is reduced to a density gradient. 4- That "in theoretical physics there may exist assumptions that act as excess baggage that prevent workers from addressing fundamental problems" which was a major argument in my paper, although your saying it sounded much less presumptuous than when I did. Not only in this contest, but in my last year's "Fix Physics!" essay - since most of my ideas are qualitative. 5- The relevance of causality sets which in my Beautiful Universe Theory also found here are simply the Hamiltonians of qubit-like (spherical degree of freedom at every point) transfer of angular momentum locally, causally and linearly in a Universal lattice.

        On a personal note I visited Purdue around 1965 to visit my brother-in-law who did his PhD in physics there. One is wont to believe in a Flat Universe in that locale!

        With best wishes for your success

        Vladimir