Essay Abstract

According to the second law of thermodynamics the entropy inside a closed system like the universe only can increase in time. Though a low entropy may correspond to a system far out of equilibrium, it only can be out of equilibrium if there is an equilibrium state, if there are physical laws operational by means of which the inequilibrium can, must convert into an equilibrium state. If an inequilibrium only is created, becomes an inequilibrium as soon as such laws kick in, as it actually starts to transform into another state so one state doesn't causally precede the other, then can the entropy of the universe change at all? Moreover, if an inequilibrium only can emerge when such laws become operative, laws which specify the nature of both the initial and end state, then shouldn't they prevent the emergence of the inequilibrium in the first place, prevent an event like the big bang to happen at all?

Author Bio

As physics has yet to discover why, that causality is a metaphysical rather than a scientific concept, my educational pedigree is hardly relevant.

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I see that the pdf text as it appears when you click it open it is not legible very well: it's much better legible when you download it.

    Mr. Biermans welcome to the contest,

    In your opinion, how does the concept of dark matter impacts thermodynamics laws?

      Respectfully Mr. Biermans

      I found this to be a very well written essay. If I may, I would like to make a comment about your contention in the Abstract "Moreover, if an inequilibrium only can emerge when such laws become operative, laws which specify the nature of both the initial and end state, then shouldn't they prevent the emergence of the inequilibrium in the first place, prevent an event like the big bang to happen at all?"

      As I have pointed out in my essay BITTERS, one real unique Universe can only do one real thing once. Abstract equilibrium and abstract inequilibrium are identified by you as being possibly chronologically sequential events and therefore they cannot be unique. The big bang never took place because the Universe is eternal.

        Hi Koorosh,

        Though I do have some suspicions about the nature of dark matter, I don't know enough details about its distribution so I'm not sure what to make of it, I have really no idea how, whether it affects the entropy in some area.

        That said, if a higher energy is a less indefinite energy (since in blackbody radiation there are more energy levels per unit energy interval at higher energies, so the energy gap becomes smaller and smaller at higher and higher energies so we need more decimals to express the energy difference between subsequent energies), and a less indefinite energy corresponds to a lower entropy, then the effect of the presence of dark matter on the entropy would depend on the energy of the dark matter particles, if it consists of particles, which I have reason to assume.

        As to whether it affects the laws of thermodynamic, I don't think so.

        An important point to emphasize, however, is that unlike in a BBU, in a SCU properties of particles, and hence their effect on the entropy somewhere is not an observer-independent quantity.

        Unlike a Big Bang Universe (BBU) the creation of which constitutes a huge violation of the law of conservation of energy, as a universe which creates itself out of nothing by definition obeys the 'Nix' which says that what comes out of nothing has to add to nothing, here it doesn't even make sense to ask what the total entropy of the universe is.

        Big Bang Cosmology (BBC), in imagining to look from outside the universe in, as if looking over God's shoulders at His creation, so to say, asserts that the universe lives in a time realm not of its own making, as opposed to a Self-Creating Universe (SCU) which contains and producers all time within.

        The quiet fatal flaw of BBC is that it considers the universe as an ordinary object which has particular properties as a whole, properties which change in time, so in this, outdated view, the entropy of the universe changes in time.

        In contrast, as it obeys the Nix law according to which everything inside the universe, including space and time somehow have to cancel, a SCU has no physical reality as a whole so is that unique 'thing' which only exists as seen from within.

        This is not unlike the fact that the sum of all debts and credits on Earth by definition is zero doesn't mean that there exists no money: it only exists, has reality to the inside debtors and creditors.

        Since money is only defined on Earth, that is, since the meter, second, joule and gram aren't defined outside the universe, it can have no particular properties nor entropy as a whole.

        Regards, Anton

        Dear Sir,

        You have started off very well - asking the right questions. That is the sign of a seeker for truth. But somehow, you have mixed up many things into a knot that need to be untangled. We begin with your egg example, as it reflects the universal creation mechanism for massive structures.

        We had actually seen an egg being delivered by a hen from about 5 feet up on a wall which fell on a concrete platform below. It was a rose colored spongy blob that sprang a little on hitting the floor, rolled some distance and turned white and egg shaped with the exterior cover hardening. Thus, its creation does not "comes down to un-breaking the egg", but a combination of fluid (without fixed dimensions - we call it "anasthaa") to transforming a fixed structure (we call it "asthanwaa"). If you look at the creation of Earth and life form of Earth, you will find that entire creation process followed this route. But your gas example is not appropriate, because, though all gases have radiative dimension, the relatively low dense gases like hydrogen spread out more than relatively more dense gases like carbon dioxide - thus un-breaking.

        Entropy is the inertia that makes a thermodynamic process more likely to occur. Inertia of motion is always accompanied by inertia of restoration (elasticity) in the medium, which restores the equilibrium of the medium. Thus, low entropy, which describes the natural tendency of the universe to fall apart into disorder, is always accompanied by an opposite effect. This turns the times arrow to cycles making time cyclic. To that extent you are right in questioning the SLT.

        Entropy is very hard to directly measure as it is a value that can be seen to embody several quantities such as kinetic and potential energy, temperature, work and force. So it can be seen as a derived value that relies on all these values. It can mean the tendency of the cosmos to fall into disorder, be a measurement of thermodynamic process or reaction, or simply a measure of the energy available for work or becomes heat. Heat is associated with hot energy like those associated with elementary particles. Once that becomes unavailable, the opposite effect takes over and the structures dissolve into equilibrium led by the inertia of restoration. Slowly it revives its conjugate inertia of motion, which brings in inherent instability to the system in different localities. This starts the creation process again. Thus, all along there is the cause and effect chain operational.

        You say: "particle properties are defined to be independent from their behavior". This is true only for the physical properties. You cannot directly define the some properties of a particle (such as charge) without interaction with other objects. And that behavior is not random. Further, you cannot separate particle properties from particles. The egg-shape comes with the egg.

        Gravity is not a force that contracts like magnetism. It stabilizes the two bodies to orbit around each other with the barycenter as the center to induce equilibrium.

        A "clock inside a gravitational field is observed to run slower" has to be treated with caution. Even light travels slower in denser mediums. A strong gravitational field means more mass over a smaller field leading to high average density. But this affects the entire field and not the clock alone. Thus, there will be no net effect like the passenger of the train did not find length contraction. In any case, clock readings are not relativistic, as even Einstein has used the clock at A as a privileged frame of reference to synchronize the clocks at B and C (though later he claimed the opposite). In any case, to define the very concept of second, we use a privileged frame of reference - the motion of Earth around Sun. Even the atomic clock uses a large number of readings to match with this unit. The GPS uses the average readings of a number of atomic clocks to do just that.

        There is much misconception regarding Higg's particle. It does not provide mass to all particles. Many particles acquire mass via strong interaction. Secondly, why should these particles require such a massive particle - as much as 134 protons - to hammer in the mass? In fact it raises many questions on the electro-weak theory itself. The W boson is said to be the mediator in beta decay by facilitating the flavor change or reversal of a quark from being a down quark to being an up quark: d → u W-. The mass of a quark is said to be about 4MeV and that of a W boson, about 80GeV - almost the size of an iron atom. Thus, the mediating particle outweighs the mediated particle by a ratio of 20,000 to 1. Since Nature is extremely economical in all operations, why should it require such a heavy boson to flip a quark over? There is no satisfactory explanation for this. The W- boson then decays into an electron and an antineutrino: W- → e v. Since the neutrinos and anti-neutrinos are said to be mass-less and the electron weighs about 0.5MeV, there is a great imbalance. Though the decay is not intended to be an equation, a huge amount of energy magically appearing from nowhere at the required time and then disappearing into nothing, needs explanation.

        Messers Glashow, Weinberg, and Salam "predicted" the W and Z bosons using an SU (2) gauge theory. But the bosons in a gauge theory must be mass-less. Hence one must assume that the masses of the W and Z bosons were "predicted" by some other mechanism to give the bosons its mass. It is said that the mass is acquired through Higgs mechanism - a form of spontaneous symmetry breaking. But it is an oxymoron. Spontaneous symmetry breaking is symmetry that is broken spontaneously. Something that happens spontaneously requires no mechanism or mediating agent. Hence the Higgs mechanism has to be spontaneous action and not a mechanism. This does not require a mediating agent - at least not the Higg's boson. Apparently, the SU (2) problem has been sought to be solved by first arbitrarily calling it a symmetry, then pointing to the spontaneous breaking of this symmetry without any mechanism, and finally calling that breaking the Higgs mechanism! Thus, the whole exercise produces only a name!

        A parity violation means that beta decay works only on left-handed particles or right handed anti-particles. Messers Glashow, Weinberg, and Salam provided a theory to explain this using a lot of complicated renormalized mathematics, which showed both a parity loss and a charge conjugation loss. However, at low energies, one of the Higgs fields acquires a vacuum expectation value and the gauge symmetry is spontaneously broken down to the symmetry of electromagnetism. This symmetry breaking would produce three mass-less Goldstone bosons but they are said to be "eaten" by three of the photon-like fields through the Higgs mechanism, giving them mass. These three fields become the W-, W, and Z bosons of the weak interaction, while the fourth gauge field which remains mass-less is the photon of electromagnetism.

        All the evidence in support of the Higgs mechanism turns out to be evidence that, huge energy packets near the predicted W and Z masses exist. In that case, why should we accept that because big particles equal to W and Z masses exist for very short times, the SU (2) gauge theory can't be correct in predicting zero masses. And that the gauge symmetry must be broken, so that the Higgs mechanism must be proved correct without any mechanical reason for such breaking? There are other explanations for this phenomenon. If the gauge theory requires to be bypassed with a symmetry breaking, it is not a good theory to begin with. Normally, if equations yield false predictions - like these zero boson masses - the "mathematics" must be wrong. Because mathematics is done at "here-now" and zero is the absence of something at "here-now". One can't use some correction to it in the form of a non-mechanical "field mechanism". Thus, Higgs mechanism is not a mechanism at all. It is a spontaneous symmetry breaking, and there is no evidence for any mechanism in something that is spontaneous.

        Since charge is perceived through a mechanism, a broken symmetry that is gauged may mean that the vacuum is charged. But charge is not treated as mechanical in QED. Even before the Higgs field was postulated, charge was thought to be mediated by virtual photons. Virtual photons are non-mechanical ghostly particles. They are supposed to mediate forces spontaneously, with no energy transfer. This is mathematically and physically not valid. Charge cannot be assigned to the vacuum, since that amounts to assigning characteristics to the void. One of the first postulates of physics is that extensions of force, motion, or acceleration cannot be assigned to "nothing". For charge to be mechanical, it would have to have extension or motion. All virtual particles and fields are imaginary assumptions. Higgs' field, like Dirac's field, is a "mathematical" imagery.

        The proof for the mechanism is said to have been obtained in the experiment at the Gargamelle bubble chamber, which photographed the tracks of a few electrons suddenly starting to move - seemingly of their own accord. This is interpreted as a neutrino interacting with the electron by the exchange of an unseen Z boson. The neutrino is otherwise undetectable. Hence the only observable effect is the momentum imparted to the electron by the interaction. No neutrino or Z boson is detected. Why should it be interpreted to validate the imaginary postulate? The electron could have moved due to many other reasons.

        It is said that the W and Z bosons were detected in 1983 by Carlo Rubbia. This experiment only detected huge energy packets that left a track that was interpreted to be a particle. It did not tell that it was a boson or that it was taking part in any weak mediation. Since large mesons can be predicted by other simpler methods (e.g., stacked spins; as proposed by some, etc), this particle detection is not proof of weak interaction or of the Higgs mechanism. It is only indication of a large particle or two.

        In section 19.2, of his book "The Quantum Theory of Fields", Weinberg says: "We do not have to look far for examples of spontaneous symmetry breaking. Consider a chair. The equations governing the atoms of the chair are rotationally symmetric, but a solution of these equations, the actual chair, has a definite orientation in space". Classically, it was thought that parity was conserved because spin is an energy state. To conserve energy, there must be an equal number of left-handed and right-handed spins. Every left-handed spin cancels a right-handed spin of the same size, so that the sum is zero. If they were created from nothing - as in the Big Bang - they must also sum up to nothing. Thus, it is assumed that an equal number of left-handed and right-handed spins, at the quantum level.

        It was also expected that interactions conserve parity, i.e., anything that can be done from left to right, can also be done from right to left. Observations like beta decay showed that parity is not conserved in some quantum interactions, because some interactions showed a preference for one spin over the other. The electroweak theory supplied a mystical and non-mechanical reason for it. But it is known that parity is not conserved always. Weinberg seems to imply that because there is a chair facing west, and not one facing east, there is a parity imbalance: that one chair has literally lopsided the entire universe! This, he explains as a spontaneously broken symmetry!

        A spontaneously broken symmetry in field theory is always associated with a degeneracy of vacuum states. For the vacuum the expectation value of (a set of scalar fields) must be at a minimum of the vacuum energy. It is not certain that in such cases the symmetry is broken, because there is the possibility that the true vacuum is a linear superposition of vacuum states in which the summed scalar fields have various expectation values, which would respect the assumed symmetry. So, a degeneracy of vacuum states is the fall of these expectation values into a non-zero minimum. This minimum corresponds to a state of broken symmetry.

        Since true vacuum is non-perceptible; hence nothingness; with only one possible state - zero - logically it would have no expectation values above zero. However, Mr. Weinberg assumed that the vacuum can have a range of non-zero states, giving both it and his fields a non-zero energy. Based on this wrong assumption, Mr. Weinberg manipulated these possible ranges of energies, assigning a possible quantum effective action to the field. Then he started looking at various ways it might create parity or subvert parity. Since any expectation value above zero for the vacuum is wholly arbitrary and only imaginary, he could have chosen either parity or non-parity. In view of Yang and Lee's finding, Mr. Weinberg choose non-parity. This implied that his non-zero vacuum degenerates to the minimum. Then he applied this to the chair! Spontaneous symmetry breaking actually occurs only for idealized systems that are infinitely large. So does Mr. Weinberg claim that a chair is an idealized system that is infinitely large!

        According to Mr. Weinberg, the appearance of broken symmetry for a chair arises because it has a macroscopic moment of inertia I, so that its ground state is part of a tower of rotationally excited states whose energies are separated by only tiny amounts, of the order h2/I. This gives the state vector of the chair an exquisite sensitivity to external perturbations, so that even very weak external fields will shift the energy by much more than the energy difference of these rotational levels. As a result, any rotationally asymmetrical external field will cause the ground state or any other state of the chair with definite angular momentum numbers to rapidly develop components with other angular momentum quantum numbers. The states of the chair that are relatively stable with respect to small external perturbations are not those with definite angular momentum quantum numbers, but rather those with a definite orientation, in which the rotational symmetry of the underlying theory is broken.

        Mr. Weinberg declares that he is talking about symmetry, but actually he is talking about decoherence. He is trying to explain why the chair is not a probability or an expectation value and why its wave function has collapsed into a definite state. Quantum mathematics works by proposing a range of states. This range is determined by the uncertainty principle. Mr. Weinberg assigned a range of states to the vacuum and then extended that range based on the non-parity knowledge of Messers Yang and Lee. But the chair is not a range of states: it is a state - the ground state. To degenerate or collapse into this ground state, or decohere from the probability cloud into the definite chair we see and experience, the chair has to interact with its surroundings. The chair is most stable when the surroundings are stable (having "a definite orientation"); so the chair aligns itself to this definite orientation. Mr. Weinberg argues that in doing so, it breaks the underlying symmetry. Thus, Mr. Weinberg does not know what he is talking about!

        Mr. Weinberg believes that the chair is not just probabilistic as a matter of definite position. Apparently, he believes it is probabilistic in spin orientation also. He even talks about the macroscopic moment of inertia. This is extremely weird, because the chair has no macroscopic angular motion. The chair may be facing east or west, but there is no indication that it is spinning, either clockwise or counter clockwise. Even if it were spinning, there is no physical reason to believe that a chair spinning clockwise should have a preponderance of quanta in it spinning clockwise. QED has never shown that it is impossible to propose a macro-object spinning clockwise, with all constituent quanta spinning counterclockwise. However, evidently Weinberg is making this assumption without any supporting logic, evidence or mechanism. Spin parity was never thought to apply to macro-objects. A chair facing or spinning in one direction is not a fundamental energy state of the universe, and the Big Bang doesn't care if there are five chairs spinning left and four spinning right. The Big Bang didn't create chairs directly out of the void, so we don't have to conserve chairs!

        Electroweak theory, like all quantum theories, is built on gauge fields. These gauge fields have built-in symmetries that have nothing to do with the various conservation laws. What physicists tried to do was to choose gauge fields that matched the symmetries they had found or hoped to find in their physical fields. QED began with the simplest field U (1), but the strong force and weak force had more symmetries and therefore required SU (2) and SU (3). Because these gauge fields were supposed to be mathematical fields (which is an abstraction) and not real physical fields, and because they contained symmetries of their own, physicists soon got tangled up in the gauge fields. Later experiments showed that the symmetries in the so-called mathematical fields didn't match the symmetries in nature. However, the quantum theory could be saved if the gauge field could be somehow broken - either by adding ghost fields or by subtracting symmetries by "breaking" them. This way, the physicists landed up with 12 gauge bosons, only three of which are known to exist, and only one of which has been well-linked to the theory. Of these, the eight gluons are completely theoretical and only fill slots in the gauge theory. The three weak bosons apparently exist, but no experiment has tied them to beta decay. The photon is the only boson known to exist as a mediating "particle", and it was known long before gauge theory entered the picture.

        Quantum theory has got even the only verified boson - the photon - wrong, since the boson of quantum theory is not a real photon: it is a virtual photon! QED couldn't conserve energy with a real photon, so the virtual photon mediates charge without any transfer of energy. The virtual photon creates a zero-energy field and a zero-energy mediation. The photon does not bump the electron, it just whispers a message in its ear. So, from a theoretical standpoint, the gauge groups are not the solution, they are part of the problem. We should be fitting the mathematics to the particles, not the particles to the mathematics. Quantum physicists claim repeatedly that their field is mainly experimental, but any cursory study of the history of the field shows that this claim is not true. Quantum physics has always been primarily "mathematical". A large part of 20th century experiment was the search for particles to fill out the gauge groups, and the search continues, because they are searching blind folded in a dark room for a black cat that does not exist. When US Congress wanted to curtail funding research in this vain exercise; they named the hypothetical Higg's boson (which is non-existent), as the "God particle" and tried to sway public opinion. Now they claim that they are "tantalizingly close" not to discover the "God particle", but to "the possibility of getting a glimpse of it". How long the scientists continue to fool the public!

        Regards,

        basudeba

          Hi Joe,

          Like the sum of all debts and credits on Earth by definition is nil (which doesn't mean that there exists no money), in a universe which creates itself out of nothing, conservation laws say that everything inside of it has to add to nil, then such universe has no physical reality as a whole, as 'seen' from without, so to say, so it makes no sense at all to ask what its entropy is, nor ask how old it is.

          In contrast, the creation of a big bang universe does constitutes a violation of conservation laws: Big Bang Cosmology (BBC), in regarding the universe as an ordinary object which has properties and evolves as a whole in time, asserts that it lives in a time realm not of its own making, so can be ascribed a (finite) age, so a big bang universe is not eternal.

          The quite fatal flaw of BBC is that as it is impossible to look at it from the outside, to imagine looking at it from without, as if looking over God's shoulders at His creation, is scientifically illegitimate: BBC represents an essentially religious view of our world and is just a present-day version of the Genesis tale, for a tale it is.

          If as seen from within, according to the uncertainty principle, a particle with an infinitesimal rest energy (greater than zero) has an infinite lifetime, then in this sense the particle and hence its universe is eternal, not if you regard it as something which has a physical reality as a whole, as seen from the outside.

          As to ''chronologically sequential events'', I argue that the observed sequence of events doesn't necessarily mean that the first is the cause of the second.

          Regards, Anton

          Hi Basudeba,

          1) With the creation of the egg I mean the entire evolution of the hen/egg and it actually laying the egg; as to gasses, their particles must similarly have evolved.

          2) ''Entropy is the inertia that'' sorry, you've lost me

          3) ''making time cyclic''

          Never mind whether your statement makes sense or not, you can only say such a thing from an imaginary observation post outside the universe: if it is an ordinary object you can inspect from without: if it lives in a time realm not of its own making, that is, if the universe has been created by some outside interference, which I insist it has not.

          4) As I argue in my answer (of 9 June) to the post of Joe Fisher, if doesn't makes no sense to ask, from the outside, what the entropy of the universe is, then we also cannot ask that question from within.

          5) '' you cannot separate particle properties from particles'' Well, if particles, particle properties are both cause and effect of their interactions, then a property is not a privately owned quantity (which is what I presume you think it is), something which can be observed objectively.

          6) ''Even light travels slower in denser mediums''

          Well, I am speaking about a gravitational field in empty space: according to the photon itself, to a local clock and ruler, its 'velocity' is the same everywhere.

          That is, if the 'speed' of light c would refer to the motion of light instead of just being the property of spacetime it actually is: it is because c is a property of spacetime, a number which says how many kilometers space distance correspond to on second time distance why all observers, no matter their own motion, measure the same value for c. (See for the distinction between c as a (finite) velocity of light and c as a property of spacetime ''Einstein's Error'', my 2012 FQXi essay http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/1328.)

          7) ''Many particles acquire mass via strong interaction''

          Well, yes, but to acquire mass requires the particles, before they start to interact and acquire mass, to already have some property which enables them to interact, so unless we explain the origin of that property (color, flavor) we still don't know why there is a strong interaction and hence the mass one assumes originates in that interaction.

          My point is that to explain mass, or any property, causally is a hopeless enterprise as a primordial cause cannot be explained by definition: this is why I insist that particle properties are both cause and effect of their interactions.

          8) A breaking of symmetry would make the universe have some particular property as a whole -which is impossible in a self-creating universe.

          9) As to the need for virtual photons in QED, the problem is that they are thought of as particles moving at a finite (light) speed: the contradictions disappear when we finally acknowledge that the 'speed' of light doesn't refer to a velocity of light (though it obviously is a limit for the motion of massive particles) but to a property of spacetime.

          Unlike a big bang universe where, as it lives in a time realm not of its own making, it is the same cosmic time everywhere so here the 'speed' of light is a (finite) velocity, as a self-creating does not live in a time continuum not of its own making, it contains and produces all time within, here clocks must be observed to run slower as they are more distant, the consequence of which is that in such universe it is not the same time everywhere: in such universe a photon bridges any spacetime distance in no time at all, agreeing with relativity theory according to which to traveler moving at the 'speed' of light, there passes no time at all.

          As I argue in my 2012 essay, a particle cannot emit a photon, energy, without the cooperation of the particle which is to absorb it: indeed, the absorbing particle is as much the cause of the transmission as the emitting particle, so here we have no contradictions, no need for spooky photons which, as you say, cannot carry real energy.

          The problem is that we regard the properties and behavior of the source particles to be independent from that of and absorbing particles because we interpret the 'speed' as a (finite) velocity and vice versa: as if the source particles only can affect the absorbing particles but not the other way around, which is nonsense.

          As to the Higgs particle/field: though we can posit the existence of fields and attribute them any property to our hearts content, as to explain their origin ad infinitum requires the invention of another kind of field, this approach leads nowhere.

          However fruitful and valuable this has been in the past, like in QED, the time has come for a different, a non-causal approach.

          Regards, Anton

          Hello Anton,

          You make a couple of thought provoking statements in your essay. These should help unravel a couple of physical truths. Since you dwell on the second law, which more or less is usually stated: dS = dU/T. By which is implied that if you drop a hot object (energy) say in a glass of water at temperature T, the entropy increases (dS) according to this equation.

          I have often wondered whether if this equation is universally correct, what happens if the temperature is Absolute zero. Could this have a cosmological implication? Supposing a Creator (I am just assuming this to avoid chicken and egg question) dropped a tiny amount of energy in a "nothing" which of course must be of absolute zero temperature, what can happen?

          All the best in the contest?

          Akinbo

          *You may also want to read my entry. It may or may not have something in it that may enhance your theory.

            Respectfully Mr. Biermans,

            I am afraid I did not understand your answer. As I have pointed out in my essay BITTERS, the real Universe only deals with real unique absolutes. The real absolute of real duration is real eternal. Although I have not mentioned it in my essay, the humanly contrived abstract absolute of duration is abstract now. We can only ever know what we know now. Now there is living and non-living material clearly existing simultaneously. Why do we take it for granted that by Godly imperative, or by comprehensive explosion, all of the inanimate stuff had to come first?

            Though I wouldn't of conceived of the pathways you did to arrive at your conclusions I must say I agree w/ the following rather emphatically:

            Though their behavior may seem random if the underlying mechanism is unknown, it's unlikely that nature doesn't know what it does, that there is no mechanism: though it may not know randomness, it does know uncertainty--an indefiniteness we mistake for randomness."

            -And-

            The idea of a 'Closed' System in nature is somewhat erroneous/in error.

            Brave hypothesis; so how do such thoughts influence your thinking on the 'Beginning of the Universe' (sorry if I simply missed this)?

              Dear Sir,

              Thank you for devoting so much thought to our post.

              Reg. your reply to: 3) ''making time cyclic'': Our observation applies equally to an imaginary observation post outside the Universe as well as ALL observation posts inside the Universe. The concept of time arises out of the ordered sequential arrangement of events; i.e., evolutionary changes in objects. How does the disorder spread in a system? It is due to inertia only (after the first action that is the creation event) that starts the chain reaction, which redistributes the density leading to equilibrium. But then what? And how did the first action start? The only answer is it must be cyclic.

              Regarding 4), a fish swimming in water does not know its density. But we can certainly know by comparing it with waters of different density.

              Regarding 5), certainly we do not think property as a privately owned quantity, but a universal concept that reveals itself in varying degrees in all objects acquiring different nomenclature based on the constituents of the object and its interaction with other objects.

              Regarding 6), gravitational field in empty space is an oxymoron. If it is empty, there cannot be mass. If there is no mass, there cannot be gravity or gravitational field. We agree that c is a property of spacetime.

              Regarding 7), we agree that particle properties are both cause and effect of their interactions, as only that can explain evolution. But causally is not a hopeless enterprise as a primordial cause can be explained. Already LQG simulations are showing a "Big Bounce", which has been interpreted as colliding galaxies. We posit that like everything in the Universe, inertia of motion also has a complement - inertia of restoration (elasticity). Till the condition of maximum entropy is reached, inertia of motion dominates, after which the inertia of restoration starts the reverse process leading to singularity. However, there must be an inherent instability that brings back inertia of motion to start the Big Bang. The bang propels energy resisted by the inertia of restoration at every point losing energy like a bow-shock effect when a boat moves in a river. Thus, after some huge distance, it becomes zero and reverts back slowly cutting of a big chunk which we call our Universe. This process repeats, but slower and slower every time, so that if we calculate at the present rate of so-called expansion, there will be a mismatch (Inflation). These reactions compress the primordial substance at some localities forming huge structures that gives rise to the present evolutionary state of the Universe. Thus, it is all cause and effect.

              Regarding 8), the Universe has some particular properties as a whole - conservation and inertia. Only these are enough to explain everything. Have you ever wondered the difference between force and energy? Free on-line dictionary defines force as "The capacity to do work or cause physical change; energy, strength, or active power" in the general category, but changes to "A vector quantity that tends to produce an acceleration of a body in the direction of its application" in the physics category. The same dictionary defines energy as "The capacity for work or vigorous activity; vigor; power" and "The capacity of a physical system to do work" in general and physics category respectively. The word "capacity to cause" physical change means, energy in its stored or potential state is force. In its kinetic state (vigorous activity), it is interaction and after it ceases to act, it is action. Though the three are only evolutionary states of the same thing, they are physically different.

              Gravity has two functions: structure formation that makes particles interact and its complement displacement that makes particles separates. Gravity as a "force" stabilizes orbits between interacting bodies, when both bodies circle around a point called barycenter. If you take the distance from this point to the centers of each body, draw a square of that length and distribute the mass of the two bodies in the reverse field, you will find some interesting results. We leave it to you for working it out so that you can draw your own conclusions. For this reason, gravity is closer to magnetism. Bodies with strong magnetic fields exhibit high gravitational potential also.

              On the other hand, gravity as "energy" in its structure formation function; makes particles interact in four different combinations of proximity-distance variables (proximity-proximity, proximity-distance, distance-proximity and distance-distance) between the two bodies involved in interaction. These four are expressed as strong, weak nuclear, electromagnetic interaction and radioactive disintegration respectively.

              Regards,

              basudeba

              Hi Basudeba,

              Your seem not to be able to wrap your brains (plural?) around the idea that a universe which creates itself out of nothing has no physical reality as a whole, as 'seen' from without, so to say.

              Whereas the creation of energy at the big bang universe either constitutes a violation of conservation laws or means that it has been created by some outside intervention (or both), as a universe which creates itself out of nothing obeys the mother of all conservation laws, the Nix law which says that what comes out of nothing must add to nothing, a Self-Creating Universe (SCU) is not something which can have properties as whole, so unlike big bang cosmologist naively want to believe, it doesn't make any sense to ask, to make statements about how large or old the universe is, what entropy it has etcetera.

              As according to the Nix law it has no 'external' physical reality as a whole, it obviously can have no beginning as 'seen' from without, so in this universe there is no such thing as a ''first action''.

              It only exists as seen from within, so if according to the uncertainty principle a particle of infinitesimal energy (i.e. greater than zero) has an infinite lifetime, then we can say that it takes the particle an infinite time to evolve from a zero energy (non-existence) to a non-zero energy so in this sense it has always existed and will always exist, though the lower its energy is, the weaker its interactions are, the less its existence makes a difference from its non-existence, the less defined its properties are.

              Agreeing with the cosmological principle according to which no point in space is more unique than any other, in a SCU every particle can consider itself to be (at) the center of its own interaction horizon, the origin and cause of its own universe, so according to the particle its universe starts to exist as it starts to exist itself, unlike the fictitious Big Bang Universe (BBU) where all particles have the same 'birth date', which does have a beginning in time.

              So another difference between these universes is that whereas a BBU lives in a time realm not of its own making, a SCU contains and produces all time within, the consequence of which is that it at all times contains objects in all possible phases of their evolution, and hence all 'entropies' which are associated with these phases, so here it makes no sense to ask what the entropy of the universe as a whole is.

              As to your question ''How does the disorder spread in a system?'', I think the answer can be found in the question where the order comes from in the first pace -which is the subject of my essay.

              My objection to conceive of a particle property as a ''universal concept'' is that it refers to an imaginary observation post outside the universe -which makes no sense in a SCU.

              As to a ''gravitational field in empty space'': if the mass of particles is both the cause and effect of their interactions, then a particle has no surface which separates some content (mass) from its (effects on its) environment, no border between where its mass ends and where its environment, its gravitational field begins.

              So if according to relativity theory a yardstick shrinks in the gravitational field as seen from outside of the field, then mass, a gravitational field is an area of contracted spacetime: the weaker the field, the less energy it contains, the emptier spacetime is.

              And as to ''a primordial cause can be explained'': no, as a primordial cause by definition cannot be reduced to a preceding cause, it cannot be explained, understood: a primordial cause can only be believed in, believed that it happened but never proved.

              As to ''the difference between force and energy'', in a SCU we cannot accuse one of being the cause of the other: the energy of particles is as much the product as the source of their interactions, of the force between them.

              Regards, Anton

              Hi Akinbo,

              By (hypothetically) assuming that the universe was created by some Creator outside of it, you regard the universe as an ordinary object which has particular properties as a whole, which has a beginning and evolves in time, so such universe lives in a time continuum not of its own making: here all particles have the same birth date.

              Conservation laws insist that in a universe without Creator, which creates itself out of nothing, without any stuff or assistance from the outside, everything inside of it somehow must cancel: what comes out of nothing must add to nothing, so this universe has no physical reality as a whole, as 'seen' from without, so to say, so it doesn't even make sense to ask how large or old it is, what entropy it has.

              A self-creating universe only exists as seen from within, so if we regard all different particle species which inhabit, for the universe as different kinds of numbers, then they all add to nil: like the sum of all credits and debts on Earth by definition is zero (so obeys the conservation law according to which this sum must remain nil) doesn't mean that there is no money.

              Just like to an alien who cannot use anything the Earth has to offer, the value of the dollar is undefined, so you cannot from outside the universe make statements about the universe as a whole, how old it is, how much energy it contains or how large it is or what its entropy is: the meter, second, gram and joule simply aren't defined outside the universe.

              As to the ''cosmological implication'': as despite the above arguments big bang cosmology nevertheless does make assertions about the age, state and properties of the universe completely invalidates the theory -if the hotchpotch of unjustified assumptions it is based upon even merits the title 'theory' at all.

              What happens when you drop ''a tiny amount of energy in a ''nothing" which of course must be of absolute zero temperature'': you first need to design, define, specify what energy is going to be and do before dropping it in a "nothing" -which, being nothing, of course cannot be attributed any temperature, let alone 0 degree Kelvin.

              Since you cannot design, create energy without the environment (spacetime) in which it is to express its nature, in doing so you automatically design spacetime itself: without energy there is no space nor time and vice versa.

              Though the big bang is described as a state of infinite energy density, to be able to speak about its density requires that space is a quantity which is independent from energy and hence unaffected by it: this not only contradicts relativity theory, it also shows how highly intelligent physicists can be very dumb as you can only speak about the energy density of the universe if the meter and joule are defined even outside the universe.

              Regards, Anton

              Dear Sir,

              We have never entered a black hole to see the back of our head in front of us. We are ordinary mortal looking straight in the eye and asking simple questions, because we have nothing to hide or evade. Hence we do not become abusive. We may be wrong, but we never even hinted that the Universe was created out of nothing. This and many similar accusations are unfair.

              All we said was that the Universe is self re-creating based on simple laws of conservation and inertia. What others call as dark energy, we call a background structure, because energy cannot be dark (non-interacting) - energy is always inferred from its interactions involving mass and has never been seen directly. Bare mass is dark. The galaxy rotation problem is wrong mathematics. The galactic clusters only appear to recede from each other because the Universe as a whole is spinning on its central axis just like planets go round the Sun. Temporarily they appear to recede from each other to come close again. Similarly, after many years, the galactic clusters will appear to come closer. This is the reason why the expansion of the Universe is not evident in lesser scales.

              In case you point out that the ether model, which was supposed to be a background structure has been demolished by the null result of the MM Experiment, this is our reply. Transverse waves are always characterized by particle motion being perpendicular to the wave motion. This implies the existence of a medium through which the reference wave travels and with respect to which the transverse wave travels in a perpendicular direction. In the absence of the reference wave, which is a longitudinal wave, the transverse wave can not be characterized as such. All transverse waves are background invariant by its very definition. Since light is propagated in transverse waves, Maxwell used a transverse wave and aether fluid model for his equations. Feynman has shown that Lorentz transformation and invariance of speed of light follows from Maxwell's equations. Einstein's causal analysis in SR is based on Lorentz's motional theory where a propagation medium is essential to solve the wave equation. Einstein's ether-less relativity is not supported by Maxwell's Equations nor the Lorentz Transformations, both of which are medium (aether) based. Thus, the non-observance of aether drag (as observed in Michelson-Morley experiments) cannot serve to ultimately disprove the aether model. The equations describing spacetime, based on Einstein's theories of relativity, are mathematically identical to the equations describing ordinary fluid and solid systems. Yet, it is paradoxical that physicists have denied aether model while using the formalism derived from it. They don't realize that Maxwell used transverse wave model, whereas aether drag considers longitudinal waves. Thus, the notion that Einstein's work is based on "aether-less model" is a myth. All along he used the aether model, while claiming the very opposite.

              Regarding ''gravitational field in empty space'', we never said that "the mass of particles is both the cause and effect of their interactions". We have earlier said that: "Gravity is not a force that contracts like magnetism. It stabilizes the two bodies to orbit around each other with the barycenter as the center to induce equilibrium." Here we clearly differentiated between massive bodies and attributed their movement along their barycenter (effect) to gravity (cause). In empty space, there cannot be massive bodies, so that the effect of gravity cannot be evident.

              We have repeatedly written in all forums that the length contraction is only apparent to the observer and not real. We do not require relativity, but simple Doppler effect to explain the observed result. For the body moving at great speed, assuming, but not conceding that if there is any length contraction, then it would apply proportionately to the scale also, so that the net effect will be zero.

              We only believe in direct evidence and inference based on such evidence. We do not believe anything without logic, as it is superstition.

              As to ''the difference between force and energy'', we never said that "one of being the cause of the other": we only said that they represent two different states of the same thing. Kindly do not misquote us.

              Regards,

              basudeba

              Hi John,

              A self-creating universe (as opposed to a big bang universe which has been created by some outside interference) has no physical reality as a whole, as 'seen' from without, so to say, so obviously cannot have a beginning, see my reply to Basudeba of Jun. 11, 2013, or, better yet, the first chapter of my study in www.quantumgravity.nl.

              Regards, Anton

              Okay, okay Anton let me rephrase the issues. Forget "nothing", forget big bang theory, forget Creator, etc

              1 - Is the equation dS = dE/T, also sometimes written dS = dU/T correct?

              (I have removed the work terms pdV VdP) to avoid beclouding the issues).

              2 - If the equation is correct, does it apply to T = 0?

              3 - If you wish to deny the possibility of T = 0 (I am trying to block all escape routes here!), then will the equation apply to an infinitesimally small temperature, say like 10^-15K?

              Be careful and in your considered reply, because I have a follow up final question/ statement.

              Regards,

              Akinbo

              Hi Akinbo,

              As far as I'm aware of your equation is correct; as to the question whether it applies at T = 0 ?

              Without intending to allow myself an escape route, you must be aware that like a velocity of 99,9999999999999999 ... % of the speed of light is still infinitely far away from ''the'' speed of light as it is unreachable, 10^-15K is infinitely far away from the absolute zero, so you question or statement will anyhow concern a hypothetic and untestable state.

              I am, nevertheless very curious as to your follow-up final question/statement.

              If it is related to you previous post, you should keep in mind that empty space is not the same as "nothing": unlike a mathematical space where all points are identical but for their coordinate numbers, space is not something (like a spatial grid) which only is curved by mass or energy, locally stretched and contracted.

              A physical spacetime is a physical 'object': its observed properties not only depend on the mass and energy in its near and far environment, but also on the mass of the observer or observing particle, the distance he/it looks from and his/its motion.

              Furthermore, except the universe, no system inside of it can be perfectly closed.

              So whether the equation applies to an infinitesimally low temperature may depend on what kind or form of energy you want to put inside some area and the location of that area.

              Another point is that whereas it is the same cosmic time everywhere in a big bang universe so time is the same kind of 'thing' everywhere, this is not the case in the self-creating universe we actually live in.

              Regards, Anton

              Hi Basudeba,

              I didn't intend to be abusive: as English is not my first language I don't know whether you (figuratively) say and write "wrap your brain -or brains- around some idea".

              As to "we never even hinted that the Universe was created out of nothing": no, that was my statement.

              As far as I'm aware of we have not much choice: either the universe has been created by some outside intervention (Creator, God or Whatever), or it creates itself, in which case it necessarily does so out of nothing -and fundamental particles must be as much the cause as the effect of their interactions so mass cannot causally precede gravity.

              Please correct me if I'm wrong.

              Regards, Anton

              Anton, I completely agree with you that physics is too obsessed with causality and the second law is not fundamental. I wrote about that in my previous essay http://www.fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/1369 and the message is not widely accepted.

              regards, Phil