• [deleted]

Peter - thank you for your kind comments on my essay.

I have found I have to be careful when talking about the notion of proper time. It is convenient to say that proper time for a photon is zero, but that depends on which Lorentz frame you choose.

Besides the references to works on orbital angular momentum in my essay, you can find pointers for downloading Poynting's early work on the following site: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3390789/

I have copies of all his papers from jstor, but I am uncertain about the copyright status and don't want to run afoul of the terms of use for the fqxi contest by attaching them.

Thank you for your good score. I am hoping that there is more to this than just an original idea. If I am even remotely correct, there are many profound implications and follow-on ideas; but I wanted to try and get this one idea over first and see if it holds water after examination by my peers before exposing my other ideas.

I would be happy to take a look at your essay, I am just wading through a pile of other fqxi essays now, but will see if I can get to yours in the next day or so.

Kind regards, Paul

Jayakar - thank you for your comment on my essay. The principle I describe is distinct from conventional concepts of "discrete-time". I identify photon traversals from emitter to absorber with what I believe EPR intended by the term "elements of reality".

They are not discrete (fixed sized) entities as in chronon's, but finite (and variable) intervals of time/space traversed by a photon; bounded by the atoms on both ends. Not only do I eliminate the notion of a background concept of time, I eliminate the infinities also at both ends of the real line when talking about the concept of subtime (ts). Classical time (Tc) then becomes the vector sum of subtime through entangled systems as they grow from simple bipartite systems to an indefinite size all the way up to the macroscopic and beyond.

So, this is why I disagree with your statement that subtime is linear and infinite.

I have downloaded your essay on "Exclusiveness of Binary numeral system in Information

unit is causal for Information paradox" and will make sure to review it in the next day or so and respond on your fqxi web page.

Kind regards, Paul

Dear Paul,

You write

"Two atoms exchanging a photon with each other in perpetuity comprises an entangled system (Figure1)."

It reminds me the idea I published some time ago

"Quantum Phase Locking, 1/f Noise and Entanglement",

although I am no longer convinced that entanglement relies on this concept.

You write

"From this insight, we can now begin to formulate a new and logically consistent information view of the apparent non-locality revealed in violations of Bell's inequality without sacri cing the principle of locality."

At the end you may be right. It may be that one forgot to introduce the right notion of time in the interpretation and that some kind of quantum phase-locking is at work. I would be delighted to see a following up of my 15 year quest

http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/math-ph/0510044

and this could be checked with atomic clocks in the end.

Good luck,

Michel

    Paul,

    Both profound and paradigm shifting, if such is now possible.

    Thanks for the links, and kind comments on my blog.

    Do stay in touch.

    Hold tight for the roller coaster ride to the finish!

    Peter

    PS, I think I have Proper and co-ordinate (arbitrary) time well defined, but if you have a chance please read my last two (both top 10 but passed over) essays for the foundations and give me your views. Or fuller range of papers here; Academia.edu Papers.

    • [deleted]

    Dear Paul,

    Thank you for your kind comments in my essay forum. I hope my vote gave your essay a deserved rating boost.

    When the recent kerfuffle over "faster than light neutrinos" was percolating, I expressed doubt that any one-way measurement could ever suffice to demonstrate the case, because any particle that exceeds the speed of light also exceeds the speed of time and therefore (like the hypothetical tachyons) could never have been shown to exist in the first place. So I appreciate your promotion in these discussions of Lev Vaidman's model, where (phi|psi) past and future states are entangled and reversible.

    We have a lot to talk about that is more complicated than I wish to engage in right now, because we are so close in our views. In the end, I would hope to convince both you and Lev Vaidman that if time is indeed identical to information, entanglement of wave functions is identical to classical orientation entanglement rather than quantum entanglement that entails superposition -- in any physical sense, I mean. My physical definition of time (ICCS 2006, 2007), "n-dimension infinitely orientable metric on random, self avoiding walk," meets the classical criteria.

    Thanks for a stimulating essay and all best in the competition!

    Tom

      Gaicomo - I have your essay printed out and will respond on your page.

      Kind regards, Paul

      Héctor - thank you for your comments. I will read your paper and respond on your page.

      Kind regards, Paul

      Joe - thank you for your message. I have your essay printed out and will review it later today.

      Kind regards, Paul

      Akinbo - you can find excellent accounts of Mach's principle in the books by Lee Smolin [1] and Brian Greene [2]. I think you will find them both a fascinating read. Brian's book has a specific description of the bucket of spinning water which I believe directly addresses your question.

      Kind regards, Paul

      [1] Lee Smolin. "The Life of the Cosmos. Oxford University Press. 1997.

      [2] Brian Greene. "The Fabric of the Cosmos. Space, Time and the Texture of Reality." Vintage Books 2004.

      Than - thank you for your comment.

      Kind regards, Paul

      Vladimir - I will take a look at Alexander Zenkin's work after I have finished with my reviews of the fqxi essays.

      I have your essay printed out and will review it shortly.

      Kind regards, Paul

      Antony - thank you for your comment. I'm pleased that you find it makes sense. I described only entangled photons as dark.

      I have your essay printed out and will take a look at it shortly and comment on your fqxi page.

      Kind regards, Paul

      Peter - thank you for your kind comments. If such a thing is possible, then it puts a whole new light (no pun intended) on some of the most vexing issues in physics today and a number of profound consequence follow.

      I started reading your papers from Academia.edu, and yes, I do believe you have proper and co-ordinate time well defined ;-) In fact, I was really quite impressed, you have done some outstanding work here. I am surprised I have not come across your work before.

      Would love to stay in touch.

      In the meantime, good luck in the contest.

      Kind regards, Paul

      Michel - I hope that by now you have forgiven me for not using the concept of entanglement in an appropriate way ;-)

      I intended to be provocative: if the concept of subtime and the mutual hot potato photon does indeed predict identical results in Bell experiments and yet it has explanatory power beyond the statistical-only Hilbert formalism, then we can begin a new conversation on the nature of entanglement and perhaps even the measurement problem itself.

      I looked at your paper on phase locked loops. This is an impressive piece of work. It reminds me of my first career in my teens and 20's as an electronics and telecommunications engineer and the old familiar PLL concepts came flooding back. Very enjoyable, thank you.

      The biggest distinction I see is that I have introduced a truly reversible local-only conceptualization of time. The principal argument is that subtime starts and stops with the emission and absorption of a photon, and is reversed in all ontological respects as the photon is returned in the hot-potato protocol. This is how I divorce myself from a background assumption of time, which is not (as far as I can tell) the situation in your otherwise excellent PLL paper.

      One possible further thought - to begin to unify the multiplicative Fourier transform approach applied to the tensorial products in your paper is to consider the path traced out by the photon, not as "terminating" on the atoms, but as a continuous path through each atom, a half orbit (Pi) change of direction at each end. This provides both a mathematical "pole" in the imaginary plane as well as a potentially appealing visualizable ontology which can be explored in its compatibility with Maxwells equations and Euler's identity.

      I would love to stay in touch.

      Kind regards, Paul

      Paul at Borrill dot com

      Michel - I hope that by now you have forgiven me for not using the concept of entanglement in an appropriate way ;-)

      I intended to be provocative: if the concept of subtime and the mutual hot potato photon does indeed predict identical results in Bell experiments and yet it has explanatory power beyond the statistical-only Hilbert formalism, then we can begin a new conversation on the nature of entanglement, and perhaps even the measurement problem itself.

      I looked at your paper on phase locked loops. This is an impressive piece of work. It reminds me of my first career in my teens and 20's as an electronics and telecommunications engineer and the old familiar PLL concepts came flooding back. Very enjoyable, thank you.

      The biggest distinction I see is that I have introduced a truly reversible local conceptualization of time. The principal argument is that subtime starts and stops with the emission and absorption of a photon, and is reversed in all ontological respects as the photon is returned in the hot-potato protocol. This is how I divorce myself from a background assumption of time, which is not (as far as I can tell) the situation in your otherwise excellent PLL paper.

      One possible further thought - to begin to unify the multiplicative Fourier transform approach applied to the tensorial products in your paper is to consider the path traced out by the photon, not as "terminating" on the atoms, but as a continuous path through each atom, a half orbit (Pi) change of direction at each end. This provides both a mathematical "pole" in the imaginary plane as well as a potentially appealing physical ontology which can be explored in its compatibility with Maxwells equations and Euler's identity.

      I would love to stay in touch.

      Kind regards, Paul

      Paul at Borrill dot com

      Tom - thank you for your kind comments. I wasn't looking at my rating until you mentioned it. I figured its going to be what its going to be.

      My essay does not discuss exceeding the speed of light, it only questions our ability to accurately measure "time intervals" in spatially separated systems. By recognizing that our irreversible and monotonic assumptions regarding classical time (Tc) may be an illusion, and that what may be going on is the vector sum of subtime traversals in an entangled system, we can no longer think simplistically about past and future or a fixed ordering of events in the experimental record. Both Lev Vaidman and Lorenzo Maccone (referenced in the essay) appear to have a similar instincts; I have merely given it the simplest ontological explanation I can think of which is consistent will known results in physics today.

      When I read the "faster than light neutrino's" kerfuffle, I realized this might be a manifestation of exactly what I am describing here, not perhaps in the neutrinos reversing their path, but in the "quantum stroboscope" mistake we may have about how we sample reality. Remember, like Bell tests, these experiments were really two experiments in different places reconciled in a "record" at some third location. These measurements are (like all time of flight tests) done as averages. No one has yet been able to convincingly produce an emitter of single photons (or neutrinos) or for that matter, convincingly demonstrate a reliable absorption of a single photon (or neutrino). In the case of truly single-flight events, there is no common background of time, and anything that can happen, can unhappen, leaving traces of information in the Tc record that give the illusion of superluminal flight.

      Remember: the quantum stroboscope: "brief flashes of reality with long periods of darkness in between".

      I will take a look at your ICCS 2006/7 work on random, self avoiding walk as soon as the contest is over.

      Kind regards, Paul

      Dear Paul,

      Thank you so much for your essay. Your essay has the different viewpoint to my essay http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/1836 . However, my question is how to connect thermodynamics, statistical mechanics, and the Shannon theory? Your theory seems to be based on this answer.

      Best wishes,

      Yutaka

        Dear Paul,

        We are at the end of this essay contest.

        In conclusion, at the question to know if Information is more fundamental than Matter, there is a good reason to answer that Matter is made of an amazing mixture of eInfo and eEnergy, at the same time.

        Matter is thus eInfo made with eEnergy rather than answer it is made with eEnergy and eInfo ; because eInfo is eEnergy, and the one does not go without the other one.

        eEnergy and eInfo are the two basic Principles of the eUniverse. Nothing can exist if it is not eEnergy, and any object is eInfo, and therefore eEnergy.

        And consequently our eReality is eInfo made with eEnergy. And the final verdict is : eReality is virtual, and virtuality is our fundamental eReality.

        Good luck to the winners,

        And see you soon, with good news on this topic, and the Theory of Everything.

        Amazigh H.

        I rated your essay.

        Please visit My essay.

          Late-in-the-Day Thoughts about the Essays I've Read

          I am sending to you the following thoughts because I found your essay particularly well stated, insightful, and helpful, even though in certain respects we may significantly diverge in our viewpoints. Thank you! Lumping and sorting is a dangerous adventure; let me apologize in advance if I have significantly misread or misrepresented your essay in what follows.

          Of the nearly two hundred essays submitted to the competition, there seems to be a preponderance of sentiment for the 'Bit-from-It" standpoint, though many excellent essays argue against this stance or advocate for a wider perspective on the whole issue. Joseph Brenner provided an excellent analysis of the various positions that might be taken with the topic, which he subsumes under the categories of 'It-from-Bit', 'Bit-from-It', and 'It-and-Bit'.

          Brenner himself supports the 'Bit-from-It' position of Julian Barbour as stated in his 2011 essay that gave impetus to the present competition. Others such as James Beichler, Sundance Bilson-Thompson, Agung Budiyono, and Olaf Dreyer have presented well-stated arguments that generally align with a 'Bit-from-It' position.

          Various renderings of the contrary position, 'It-from-Bit', have received well-reasoned support from Stephen Anastasi, Paul Borrill, Luigi Foschini, Akinbo Ojo, and Jochen Szangolies. An allied category that was not included in Brenner's analysis is 'It-from-Qubit', and valuable explorations of this general position were undertaken by Giacomo D'Ariano, Philip Gibbs, Michel Planat and Armin Shirazi.

          The category of 'It-and-Bit' displays a great diversity of approaches which can be seen in the works of Mikalai Birukou, Kevin Knuth, Willard Mittelman, Georgina Parry, and Cristinel Stoica,.

          It seems useful to discriminate among the various approaches to 'It-and-Bit' a subcategory that perhaps could be identified as 'meaning circuits', in a sense loosely associated with the phrase by J.A. Wheeler. Essays that reveal aspects of 'meaning circuits' are those of Howard Barnum, Hugh Matlock, Georgina Parry, Armin Shirazi, and in especially that of Alexei Grinbaum.

          Proceeding from a phenomenological stance as developed by Husserl, Grinbaum asserts that the choice to be made of either 'It from Bit' or 'Bit from It' can be supplemented by considering 'It from Bit' and 'Bit from It'. To do this, he presents an 'epistemic loop' by which physics and information are cyclically connected, essentially the same 'loop' as that which Wheeler represented with his 'meaning circuit'. Depending on where one 'cuts' the loop, antecedent and precedent conditions are obtained which support an 'It from Bit' interpretation, or a 'Bit from It' interpretation, or, though not mentioned by Grinbaum, even an 'It from Qubit' interpretation. I'll also point out that depending on where the cut is made, it can be seen as a 'Cartesian cut' between res extensa and res cogitans or as a 'Heisenberg cut' between the quantum system and the observer. The implications of this perspective are enormous for the present It/Bit debate! To quote Grinbaum: "The key to understanding the opposition between IT and BIT is in choosing a vantage point from which OR looks as good as AND. Then this opposition becomes unnecessary: the loop view simply dissolves it." Grinbaum then goes on to point out that this epistemologically circular structure "...is not a logical disaster, rather it is a well-documented property of all foundational studies."

          However, Grinbaum maintains that it is mandatory to cut the loop; he claims that it is "...a logical necessity: it is logically impossible to describe the loop as a whole within one theory." I will argue that in fact it is vital to preserve the loop as a whole and to revise our expectations of what we wish to accomplish by making the cut. In fact, the ongoing It/Bit debate has been sustained for decades by our inability to recognize the consequences that result from making such a cut. As a result, we have been unable to take up the task of studying the properties inherent in the circularity of the loop. Helpful in this regard would be an examination of the role of relations between various elements and aspects of the loop. To a certain extent the importance of the role of relations has already been well stated in the essays of Kevin Knuth, Carlo Rovelli, Cristinel Stoica, and Jochen Szangolies although without application to aspects that clearly arise from 'circularity'. Gary Miller's discussion of the role of patterns, drawn from various historical precedents in mathematics, philosophy, and psychology, provides the clearest hints of all competition submissions on how the holistic analysis of this essential circular structure might be able to proceed.

          In my paper, I outlined Susan Carey's assertion that a 'conceptual leap' is often required in the construction of a new scientific theory. Perhaps moving from a 'linearized' perspective of the structure of a scientific theory to one that is 'circularized' is just one further example of this kind of conceptual change.

            Yutaka - thank you for your comment. I will now take a look at your paper.

            Kind regards, Paul