Essay Abstract

Even though science achievements are undeniable through human history, there is a sort of disenchantment about its ethical and social consequences. Despite the fact that this is true, we question now on the validity of the approach between scientific models of the world and current and existential reality, because we think that the future of Humankind largely depends upon that. Scientific language is extremely powerful but it is not almighty; therefore, we review the serious limitations of proclaiming a unique code of expression about the real world, humans within, and instead we propose a polyglotism which not only recognizes there are other forms of telling the world, but opens its own horizon, accepting its needs, assuming then the unifier role that science is called to play, so that Humanity steer the future in an adequate way.

Author Bio

Born in Mexico City, september 2nd 1957. Undergraduate studies in Physics: Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México. Qualifying PhD. The University of Texas at Austin. PhD Physics: Université Libre de Bruxelles (Belgium) under Prof. Ilya Prigogine. Undergraduate studies in Philosophy: Université Catholique de Louvain (Belgium). MD Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México. Full time professor and researcher: Multiversidad Mundo Real Edgar Morin, Mexico City. Holder of the research group on Open Systems and Complexity (SACO) Faculty of Ha'atelier, University of Berlin. Member of the Société Française de Philosophie. Member of the Fundación Xavier Zubiri, Madrid.

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Dear Mr.Alexandre de Pomposo,

intersting essay which is in agreement with my own essay:

http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/2002

(right in the spirit of Prigogine which I like very much).

More later after a second reading of your essay.

Best wishes for the contest

Torsten

Dear Alexandre de Pomposo,

thanks for your reply and for the good ideas. I agree that my model is not very detailed. But the discoveries in science cannot be planned and if I don't know it I can assume a stochastic process. More philosophical: noise creates potential information not real information. The real information can be created by selection (or by other processes of choice among the potential information). In science, there are discoveries every day but not all are important (and are selected by one scientist for further studies). I agree the usuage of the Fisher-Eigen equation is maybe to simple. That was the reason to introduce Co-evolution to simulate global trends. If you get enough interest of other scientist you can create a trend in science. In 1984, Green and Schwarz made a breakthrough in string theory. After that thousands of physicists followed that way.

But I disagree about the pure usage of the Malthus-Verhulst model. It is a pupulation model. So that, there is no fitness function. Species were born and died by a rate which only depends on the ressources. It is not enough to get evolution. But I agree to combine this dynamics with the Fisher-Eigen equation. Then one has an equation which expresses also finite ressources.

Furthermore, maybe one con modify this process by assuming not white noise but instead colored noise.

Now to your other remark about time. If you look at my publications then you will see a shift in my interests. I had Prof Werner Ebeling as my supervisor and also met Prigogine. So my evolution paper are more at the end of my publication list. My main interest is the structure of space and in particular of time. So your question about the arrow of time hit my at the right place. I deeply think that the arrow of time is rooted in the fundamental laws of quantum mechanics and general relativity by including essentially interactions. I made a certain progress in understanding the arrow of time by using the structure of the 4-dimensional spacetime.

But your question is twofold. I indeed think that any scientific discovery will contribute to technological advances but also our needs (expressed in the fitness function) will select it. All business interests are controlled by these needs (of course not totally, some needs are created by business).

Now to artificial intelligence. I maybe oversimplify my own thought about this problem. I think that a dynamical structure like a dynamically linked network is necessary but not sufficient. The change of the linking should also be controlled by an evolutionary process with some fitness function (fixed but better obtained as function of the network). Furthermore, this future computer should not work according to the Boolean logic. The law of the excluded third is to restrictive and I think our brain do not use it (also quantum mechanics do not contain it). That was the reason why I start to study the topos approach in mathematics (which is able to create such a logic).

Thanks again for your very interesting thoughts

Best wishes

Torsten

PS: I will rate your essay very high but later after April, 18 (when no new essays appear).

Dear Doctor de Pomposa,

I regret that reading your exceptionally well written essay depressed me close to the point of despair.

I found your frank admission that although you understand that ..."we all live in the present..." you have never asked yourself why we do that. May I please give you a clue from my sensible essay, REALITY, ONCE? We only live in the here and now because that is the only way we can realistically live.

Reality is unique, once. Reality was not created. Information is not unique. Information had to have been created. Reality cannot be correct or incorrect. All information must be incorrect because it assumes unreal characteristics. All technology is destructive. It cannot be anything else but destructive because it is unnatural.

With best regards,

Joe Fisher

    Dear Joe:

    I am very sorry for, apparently, you found some discomfort while reading my article. I already read yours, though I need a second view of it. Meanwhile, I allow myself to think loudly about your observations on my paper: to begin, when I say that "we all live in the present" I pretend to underline the fact that we should learn from our past experiences, that we shall orient our best efforts in order to prepare the future, but mainly that we must live our present responsibly, this is to say, being capable to respond for our acts and thoughts, facing the whole reality. I certainly agree with you that reality, whatever it be, presents itself at once, however on an evolutionary path. Henri Bergson, the french philosopher, began his philosophical work asking himself why the world, as we see it today, had to follow a very long way, through millions and millions of years, instead of being at once without all the struggle we know. Well, his answer, after a whole life of thinking, was that evolution is a creative process and reality is our appreciation about it, with a certain relation with all things we qualify as strictly "objective".

    Present is understood as the victorious fight of love against death, of eternity, in the figure of promise, against the extremely hard objectivity of past who seems to condition everything. The flowing of time, the multiplication of "presents" and of love tasks, bring nothing essentially redressing the precariousness of the communication within the word; it is precisely because of that we can assure that every single instant is already mature to be the last one and that makes it eternal. That's why science has to be shared in common with human beings and human nature.

    For sure, reality was not created: reality evolves creating novelty. The authentic is eternal, the eternally profound. The real is posteriority resolving riddles of something previous; everything bringing life resolves some enigma, paying the price of posing new enigmas.

    Best wishes for you too.

    Alexandre

    Alexandre,

    The only question we need to ask ourselves is: Is reality simple? Reality must be simple; because the question can only draw the response of yes. Now, we can then ask the question: Is information about reality simple? The answer might be that some of the information about reality is simple, but some of the information about reality is exceedingly complex. Utter intellectual confusion ensues. How can simplicity and complexity co-exist simultaneously? The less abstract information about reality one has at one's disposal, the better able one can deal with reality.

    Joe

    Dear Joe,

    I thank you, once again, for your reply. I think that I can see very clearly now where is the "problem": the turning point is in the difference between the concepts of "complex" and "complicated". The term "complex" denotes a property of things; so, when I say "that is complex" what I am actually saying is that such realities possess a complex nature (see below). Instead, when I declare that something is complicated, what I am pointing out is my bigger or lesser capability of understanding or dealing with reality itself.

    You might be asking why do I suppose complexity as a property of reality. Well, I guess that the problem before us is like that of a jig-saw puzzle. Suppose we have a box of pieces out of which we are to construct a certain picture (in fact, what we call "nature", "reality", and so on). But the pieces contained in the box are more than can be used, an from among them we have to select those which are needed for our purpose. Furthermore, the pieces do not fit together, and they have to be reshaped. Finally, many necessary pieces are missing, and we have to supply them ourselves (hypothesis). But to offset all these difficulties, we have an outline of the picture which we are to construct... What do we want to do? Do we describe reality or do we invent it? Simplicity is the lowest degree of complexity we can understand.

    Alexandre

      • [deleted]

      Dear Alexandre,

      I am not making myself clear. Please allow me to try again. Reality is not in the least bit complicated. The only thing that is complicated is information about reality.

      For instance: All surfaces travel at the constant "speed" of light. All non-surfaces travel at an inconsistent speed that is less than the speed of light. This must be so for lit surfaces can be observed by man, moose, and mouse, and non-surfaces cannot ever be observed.

      By mistakenly believing that they can measure the speed of light, the physicists have cornered themselves in an impossible situation. Nothing in reality is measurable for all reality takes place here and now.

      Joe

      I appreciate your mention of how science needs art and philosophy, and that combined they can focus on supporting humanity's (basic, physical, etc.) needs.

      And, obviously, I definitely appreciate your proposition that open-mindedness is crucial to a healthy future.

      I would have loved to hear a deeper discussion of your ideas on the practical side of polyglotism, as you see it.

        Dear Professor Turil Sweden Cronburg,

        I thank you a lot for your encouraging words and, as I see in the paper you wrote, the discovering of how we deeply coincide in many points. I greatly enjoyed reading you, particularly expressed in the diagrams you beautifully presented. However, if you allow me to make a few comments about your ideas, I would like to know how can we pretend to use experience, consciousness, space, time, etc., as we don't even know the real meaning of all that. I understand quite well that, by centuries we have been forced to accept all those concepts as provisory hypotheses, otherwise we would never progressed a bit in science... Nevertheless, I think, we should keep in mind that all the basic conceptual structure of science, including evolution as a model o time developing systems, has to be questioned again and again. In fact, I consider that what we actually call "experience" inevitably is a past reality, an already done structure, good or bad, beautiful or ugly, constructing or disastrous, whatever, but always known in a posteriori manner. Present, instead, cannot be seen or even experienced as such, since in the case of conscious experience, this always happens in a sort of estrangement of oneself, whilst the rest of atoms, not Adams, seem to me as simply being there without a notion of experience. I keep thinking that, even though I ignore what consciousness is.

        Another heavy term you employ in your exposure is purpose; I would have rather utilized the term intention, but it doesn't matter. Indeed what I suppose is really important to tell you is that I don't think we get things clearer by assuming the equation purpose = function. You probably know that one of the main disjunctive topics is the question for what was first, structure or function: does structure make function or is it the other way around? I am sure that as far as we stay on that twofold situation we will never be able to get off the hook. I propose to add a third element, namely, fluctuations triggering and modulating reality. Now yes, we break through the undecidable binomial; instead of the old dialectic one-dimensional relationship structure 竊" function, we get a threefold relationship, not strictly dialectic, an equilateral triangle with structure, function and fluctuations, each one of three on each corner.

        This relationship cannot be purely dialectic because there wouldn't be any possible evolution of such a closed system. Not only does each one of the three moments depend on the other two, but also each one of them has to be opened to new possible conditions. That is why fluctuations play a crucial role in evolutionary perspectives. Don't you think so? I know all that is present between the lines of your text but, perhaps, it would have been very useful to do it explicitly. No doubt, all the factors you mention for a fully functioning Earth are relevant and, in a certain sense, they all are urgent to meet.

        I didn't fully developed the idea of epistemic polyglotism because of the lack of space we counted on for the contest; however, and I am very glad to confirm that you did understand the point, in order to answer a foundational question like how should humanity steer the future, only illustrious ideas like yours and mine can effectively contribute to get a glimpse of an answer. I widely develop the subject of polyglotism in a book I just registered in Mexico, it is written in Spanish, titled "La conciencia de la ciencia: un juego complejo" [The consciousness of science: a complex play (game)]. May be I will think of a translation into English and French.

        Finally, I would like to tell that, yes, I would like a hot cup of tea!

        Yours,

        Alexandre de Pomposo

        Alexandre,

        As you profess to be an open minded scientist, would you be able to examine the possibility that the practice of science is quite capable of social behaviors which lead it off into imaginary realms, as abstractions of abstractions create schools of thought that are every bit as fantastical as anything dreamed up by religion, or fiction? Multiverses is necessarily the culmination of a process of reducto ad absurdum, but I see its source being buried deep in current physics assumptions. The one I keep raising has to do with the nature of time and that while we experience it as a sequence of events, in which the present 'moves' from past to future, which physics further reduces to measures of duration, it is foundationally the consequence of change, by which future becomes past. To wit, the earth doesn't travel/exist along some fourth dimension from yesterday to tomorrow, rather tomorrow becomes yesterday because the earth rotates. This makes time an effect of action, similar to temperature. Time is to temperature what frequency is to amplitude. When we think of time, it is of the particular action, leading from one event to the next, but when we think of temperature it is the cumulative effect of lots of actions, but that is just because we experience them from different perspectives. Temperature is a cumulative effect of lots of specific actions, creating that larger effect and since these actions trade energy around, they are seeking the entropic result of a thermal equilibrium. Meanwhile we have spent centuries looking for a universal clock, by which all actions march in lockstep into the future, but all we find is that every action is its own clock and the dynamic of time is a cumulative effect of change. Much like temperature.

        As logical as this may seem to me, mentioning it gets me treated as an idiot, who 'doesn't understand the math' and occasionally banned from physics blogs. As I reply, the math for epicycles worked pretty well, because we are the center of our perspective of the universe, just the actual physical mechanism wasn't so earth centered.

        In this view of time, we don't need either determinism, or multiworlds, to explain how to move from a determined past into a probabilistic future, since probability precedes actuality and so there is no need to assume the future must be deterministic, or the past remains probabilistic.

        Not to mention what this does to a cosmology currently being explained by the precepts of spacetime, but that's a whole other story. Ultimately I would describe the universe as thermodynamic, given that energy expands and mass contracts. Einstein originally proposed gravity as the contraction of space and now we think intergalactic space expands and these two effects seem in balance, so I don't understand why the assumption remains, that the entire universe expands, if this intergalactic effect is being balanced by galactic contraction. The measure expanding between galaxies is falling into them at an equal rate. Zeeya Merali has been kind enough to put me up a blog post, where I continue to link the many instances of galactic formations increasingly difficult to explain within the current age restrictions of this model.

        While this is getting far off the topic of the current essay, I just though you sounded introspective enough to put the current science situation in some larger sociological context, as there is not much chance of the profession solving humanity's issues, when it cannot even be objective about its own.

        Regards,

        John Merryman

          Dear John,

          I appreciate both your paper and your beautiful reply. I mostly agree with you and what you say made me stop for a little while in my job, walk out and start considering your concepts, one by one, under the trees of a park. The result of those thoughts are expressed in the following lines.

          Basic sciences have shown, from their very beginning, the greatest interest to understand the world as well as the laws governing it. They have assumed again and again that knowing reality and predicting its behavior, both aspects are the same thing. Nobody doubts, even building on such oversimplified basis, that sciences have provided numerous and overwhelming examples of their validity; one can find at the present time that most scientists uncritically accept that the initially unavoidable assumptions, made in order to go straight ahead in research, those assumptions are in fact the immovable principles for the functioning of the world. The initial breath of fresh air that signified the birth of science, quickly vitiated and today prevents us from seeing with new eyes the complexity of the world, of human beings and their becoming. Science has betrayed her own consciousness.

          This is why it is absolutely necessary to review, with a critical sight, what we mean by knowing, by doing and by knowing what to do. Hence the false choice between theory and praxis, forgetting that every theory finds its justification in experience; abstraction, as the explanation of reality by means of the impossible, the search of universals as an extension of the strictly local, towards the global, and its summit, action, developing a response ability for our movements at the interior of existence, all that needs the resources of humans. And, on their side, humans mustn't be alienated by a science being stubborn about considering the world as if we weren't there! I think it should be quite the contrary, namely, as science is one of the main achievements of human thought, provided she ennobles man and makes him living with responsibility.

          The "antidote" to prevent the inability in considering men as integral part of the stuff developed by sciences, a spiritual blindness, is the implementation of an integrating discourse without leaving anything outside which concerns humans. The old disjunctive between the ideal and what actually happens in the flowing of time, between necessity and contingence, between universal and particular, puts the solution not at the decision point, but at the enriching fusion of both branches. That's the way the universal particular and the particular universal emerge as the solution to the contingence of the laws of nature. Reality manifests as a play of contingence, Yes, man can take himself into account while knowing and describing the world by fusing the contraries, in a never ending and never complete hug, because whatever is touched by human beings turns into an enigma, as he is himself one.

          What can we do? Even though science is not the only possible answer, she certainly is a privileged path so to structure the human intellect; this is so because of the direct projection of the structure of human intellect that mathematics actually is. In other words, science, which is a product of human mind, goes back to man in order to draw him once more. Nonetheless, this is not a consistent lie undistinguishable from truth; it rather is the helicoidal construction, which cannot go on a straight line, since straight lines are the product of induction, which hardly fits into natural thought, unless mathematics becomes integrated to the structure of the spirit.

          Concluding, sciences shall accept that the only possibility for them to keep their consciousness intact is... being willing to change (i.e. to inspect their basic assumptions) whenever is necessary. Like seeing is the function of view, believing is the function of childhood, and only children know that the horizon, even it looks like a border line, is the mark of the beginning of the invisible. From the horizon as the limit of knowledge (Kant), up to that treat with things, fixing the horizon (Zubiri), passing by a construction of a vital horizon (Ortega y Gasset), human beings surely roam through their lives thinking, acting, dreaming...Capable of the highest ideals, as well as the worst nightmares, man will always be a god while he dreams, but a beggar while he thinks (Hölderlin).

          Best regards,

          Alex

          • [deleted]

          Alex,

          We assume that as broad and deep as the scientific endeavor has grown, mistakes would be quickly revealed, but the opposite can be true as well, that the establishment momentum does not backtrack any more than absolutely necessary. Scientists are human.

          Let me ask you directly, if I may be so forward; Does it make sense to you to think of time as change causing future to be come past? That tomorrow becomes yesterday because the earth turns?

          Obviously you can appreciate the difficulties this would pose for the notion of spacetime, that correlation of measures of duration and distance and the effects various fields and velocities have on them are reflective of this deeper 'fabric of spacetime.' Yet on a deeper level, history and linear logic is based on this narrative premise. What is more elemental to the human condition than the progression of time?

          I'm not arguing this from a point of personal hubris and it is not as though we haven't poetically sensed events receding into the past on a daily basis, but as humans we concentrate and focus on the details, which the practices of science and math magnify. Personally I'm one of those people who is more inclined to sit back, when everyone else is rushing ahead, not for intellectual reasons, but simply more air to breathe. Professionally I train horses, which is the family business. So while the rest of the world rushes into the future, I watch from a distance. Objectivity is simply a matter of having some distance from the subject. The universe swirls overhead. It's taken us decades to eject one satellite from our solar system, yet we now posit multiverses? From my point of view, it seems a fairly classic case of getting way beyond ourselves and real progress is not going to come, until we come to our senses.

          Thank you and hope this doesn't come across as a rant, but a clearly stated opinion.

          Regards,

          John M

          Dear John,

          I thank you very much for your openness of thinking. As I already told you, I completely agree with you and I celebrate that you like to watch from a distance: open spaces are essential to have an idea of the entire landscape. So, after that, you deserve that I widely open my heart to you in a matter as fundamental as time is. But before that I must prevent you that, as it seems to me is your case, I am not a draft animal, I mean that I usually don't react after whiplashes, on the contrary I frequently resist: I have payed a high price for my freedom in thinking, and I'm sure you know quite well what I'm talking about. I am convinced that a construction of scientific knowledge without taking into account that science is nothing without scientists who, before being scientists, are humans, is a ridiculous, irresponsible, absurd and even monstrous and grotesque task.

          We often mistake considering time as equivalent to duration. Starting with the works of Galileo, the isomorphism between time and the line of the real numbers, stablished once and for all that instants in time are points on a straight line. This, of course, banishes us from the whole panorama of the description of nature. That is a consequence of pretending that things are as they are independently of our presence or absence from the cosmic stage. Certainly not, and quantum mechanics, dipping in the same deterministic point of view, still had to recognize that the observer was there for a reason, and he couldn't be innocuous in knowing reality, whilst measurements are on the way.

          Well, that is the reason why I've been thinking since almost thirty years ago, when I talked a lot with my supervisor in the PhD in physics, Professor Prigogine, that all this story about multi-dimensional, multi-cosmic, "reality" is nothing but a projection of our deterministic brains. In fact, all we know, all we experience about reality is always past: we cannot see the present, we usually suffer it, one way or another. So the things, in one occasion I said to Prigogine, "well Professor, then there exists only one dimension, namely, TIME, and what we actually call SPACE is nothing but the trace of time, this is to say, past". Professor Prigogine looked pensive after my statement; few minutes later he said that my idea looked a little bit extreme, however I might be right since I was young... I am not young any more, but I still think the same. The only way one can dip into the present is dying. Time is not duration and that is why practically all the equations of physics are perfectly indifferent about the sign of "t": if you change t by -t you will get exactly the same result in all the differential expressions based upon classical mechanics. Even Schrödinger's equation is deterministic, of course, as well as the mathematical characterization of Boltzmann's theorem. That is why time cannot be either a parameter nor a fourth dimension: it's got to be some sort of "operator", comparable with momentum, position and total energy (hamiltonian) operators. Only then Heisenberg's uncertainty relations will have a real meaning.

          So, speaking frankly, I think we have really missed the mark from the very beginning (i.e. more than four centuries ago!). The amazing thing is that we have said few things not so stupid. But it is time now to rethink the role of mankind in the generation of knowledge. Self confidence is a good thing as far as it doesn't lead us to be arrogant: you say well, our knowledges and movements in the cosmos are so "viscous", slow, clumsy, naive, that we should be extremely careful about the range of our achievements. In the scope of time, past is space already done (faith, oblivion), future is space not yet done (hope, ignorance) and present is time itself (love, knowledge). Forgive my pseudo-theological allusions, but what I want to say is that we should take seriously all human nature, not just the part that suits me.

          I am sorry, dear John, for I've been too long in my reply but, I feel good "talking" with you by this means. As a matter of fact, besides the contest, which is pretty interesting, the "colateral effect" of these communications among the different authors is the best part of it. Thanks for your patience and I hope all this be of some usefulness.

          Best wishes.

          Alex

          Alex,

          Thank you for your forthrightness. We have much to argue over. I see space as irreducible and time as an effect of action, no matter how fundamental it may be to our actions and mortality.(So is temperature.)

          I agree what we perceive is past events and not only that, but static framings of otherwise dynamic processes. Yet it is because the perception of those events requires information to cross space and be carried by the action of light, that we don't perceive them instantaneously. Duration then is a function of how this information travels.

          Our actions are part of the whole process and the more constructed they are, the necessarily more the momentum of prior form will define subsequent form. I don't have a problem with the concept of determinism and that what is past is determined, in which our will, conscious, subconscious and group conscious plays its part. To will is to determine. The term 'free will' is a bit of an oxymoron. We don't make distinctions between good and bad decisions and then decide. The decision is part of the process of making the distinctions. Then it becomes past, which is determined.

          The problem with determinism is that while all the laws governing interaction might well be deterministic, otherwise they wouldn't be laws, the input cannot be fully known prior to the occurrence of the event in question. Otherwise the information and light carrying it, would have to travel faster than C. The event is the only sum of its input.

          Meanwhile empty space has no features and properties which require a cause. Nothing physical to limit, move or bend it means it is inert and infinite. Consider that C is the speed of light in a vacuum. What is this vacuum, other than empty space? Currently Big Bang theory argues the entire universe is expanding and eventually those distant galaxies will be so far away their light will no longer reach us. Now that means more units defined by the speed of light will be required to cross this space. Presumably then it is being denominated in lightyears, which means the expanded space is the numerator. That's not expanding space, but an increasing distance in stable space, as measured by C.

          When we measure time, we measure actions, but when we measure space, be it distance, area, or volume, we are measuring space.

          So we have this void filled with cycles of radiation expanding and mass contracting. According to theory, this balances out to overall flat space and this is explained by inflation blowing the universe up so far that it only appears flat, but what if it really is flat? When we see light that has traveled billions of years, it has had to thread its way between all those gravity wells of galaxies. Not only that, but it's redshifted proportional to distance. Since I don't see how they can really use relativity to say space itself expands, when the speed of light doesn't increase proportionally to maintain C, so there really is only increased distance, then we would appear to be at the center of the universe. Now we do happen to be at the center of our view of the universe, so an optical effect would explain this quite well. So then the light in a basically gravity free environment expands, much as that in a gravity zone contracts. Think of space as the rubber sheet over water. Then when the ball pushes it down, the water pushes the rest back up proportionally, so that the overall effect is 'flat' and we only see light that travels the 'high ground.'

          Convection cycles of expanding radiation and contracting mass in empty space is all we see and all we need.

          Regards,

          John M

          Dear John,

          Thank you for your reply. Your arguments forced me to have a look on some texts that came to my mind while reading you. Namely, I though about some of the ideas of Spinoza as you argued about space and time, for the Dutch philosopher thinks that thought and extent are the attributes of the one substance (which is infinite in itself, with an infinite number of attributes, each one of them being infinite), so that nothing is "outside" of it since, in fact, there does not exist any "outside". Well, I suppose that your own idea of space as an irreducible entity gets very close to Spinoza's conception. And referring to the concept of time as pure action, Spinoza says in the same tenor that action is the deployment of the substance (as a matter of fact, God, in the philosophical system of Spinoza) by means of the temporal unity of man. Ergo, time precedes existence, and human action needs time as a backdrop.

          Indeed, information travels not at infinite speed, as we have a limit, c. Now, this reminds me that whatever we say, we pretend to know or to describe, we must have an irremovable referent, i.e. a frame of reference with respect to which we can say whatever: Ptolemy (Earth), Copernicus (Sun), Protagoras (man), sound (air), light (ether...or light itself), many human beings (God), etc., even this writing I am doing right now needs the referent of alphabet, language, syntax, and so on. Apparently infinite can only fit in human spirit; I think that is so for simultaneity as well. To will, more than to determine, is to get an idea of possibility: reality is the complex of possibilities. You remind me, once again, Spinoza when you say that free will is a sort of oxymoron, and I agree with you: we are not simply actors on the stage of space-time, but we rather create the stage being there and acting. But once this process begins, not only do we make the stage, but the stage makes us too. The main problem I see with determinism is not being simply false, because it is not, but that it pretends that everything is exclusively fixed by previous conditions, not allowing the appearance of novelty, of the radically unexpected, of emergence. Now, in fact, nature provides us with so many examples of emerging systems, proving that structures are not the ensemble of parts, but the collection of possible correlations between those parts, so far that even after the disappearance of them, correlations stay (e.g. fossils). That is why I think space as the trace of time (which is not duration), not as an effect coming out from a cause, unless we accept this view as the price to pay for our particular way on perceiving the phenomenal world.

          About expanding universe, I do agree with you, provided they are not confused space and time as simple degrees of freedom. Physics has very often assumed homogeneity and isotropy of space, in an attempt to fulfill the conditions for solving non-linear equations, and that's understandable; however, we in general forget pretty soon that such conditions were exceptional and oversimplifying, so we entangle the feet with our own games. This is why I would like to talk about your phrase: "when we measure time, we measure actions, but when we measure space, be it distance, area, or volume, we are measuring space." What measuring is? Measuring is comparing couples of systems, assuming that one of them is, at least for a while, fixed. The "landing" or "shoulder" not in time, but in our understanding, are an indispensable condition for measuring anything. When we measure time we compare actions and when we measure space we compare historical moments, this is to say, places of the past. Of course, void is not the carbon copy of nothingness, since the former is actually something whilst the later cannot simply be, otherwise it wouldn't be nothingness. Light needs a propagation medium, which is light itself. Einstein spent almost twenty years before he realized that although it is true that ether as such doesn't exist, light does need a medium. I think that medium, light, is a direct property of the geometrical structure of space, this is to say, of time (from there the particular metrics of space-time).

          I don't think there is a single center of the universe, i.e. it is nowhere or, equivalently, it is everywhere; as you assert right, each one is a fortiori the center of the universe; I'd rather prefer to say that each one is the center of his or her own universe. I am not quite sure though that either the presence or the absence of gravity is the only explanation of contraction or expansion, respectively, of space. I suppose science still has a very long way to go. However it is puzzling too the fact of remembering those old models (Greek atomists like Democritus, Descartes, etc.) praising vortices organizing reality; I am afraid that, for the time being, these are more philosophical than scientific subjects. Nevertheless, I hope scientific thought will eventually dig in them.

          Thanks John and excuse me for the delay answering your deep reply.

          Regards,

          Alex

          Alex,

          You have infinite, but how do you have absolute? Like absolute zero and the state where that infinity of everything balances out. The vacuum without fluctuation. The void that is the medium for C.

          Space may be infinite, but it is also that state of inertia. The motionless stability of everything pulling and balancing everything else. That 'geometrical structure' is vibrating, fluctuating, changing, yet because it is infinite, it also is balanced by the infinity. Energy radiating away in all directions is replaced by energy radiating in from all directions.

          Change happens where structure is weakest relative to energy. Emergence is where energy exceeds order. The ice breaks, the bark splits, the flower blooms, the light escapes, the atom splits, etc. The problem with determinism is there is no way to objectively assemble relevant information prior to the event. It happens where your information is least. The pot boils faster when you don't watch it.

          What seems to me to be the more useful relation is between information and energy. Energy is like time, it has to move and change, while information is the form it tries to manifest, fleetingly static. Like the absolute, a balancing of opposites, freezing the universe for a moment. The temperature of the fluctuation that creates change and time.

          So space is both infinite and absolute. Like energy, stretching out to infinity, or a few billion lightyears. Absolute, as it tries to pull the ends back together and balance them in that larger medium of all. So we have these vortices of contracting form and radiating energy.

          I know this is overly philosophical, but math and science are manifestations of form and see all as deterministic information. It is form falling into the vortex, not the energy being released.

          Regards,

          John M

          17 days later

          I gave you a score of 8. The part that was missing was how to provide sustainable support for a monumentally diversified system of investigative efforts.

          Public schools are not even teaching common sense, let alone concepts and practiced application of diverse foundations for investigative developments.

          James Dunn

          FQXi Submission:

          Graduated Certification for Certification of Common Sense

          http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/2045

            Dear James,

            Thank you for the score you gave to me. You are right about the missing part of providing sustainable support of investigative efforts. However, my article, being written by a physicist, hardly could deal with such items, and I wanted to put the accent on the epistemological attitude facing the legitimate unification of knowledge, of realities and, mainly, of humans. Indeed, I think that attitude is first; economics is later. As a matter of fact, one can find quite often such confusion in most of the western countries, namely, that prosperity in education comes from prosperity in economics; I think it is exactly the opposite.

            You say well that we don't even teach common sense at schools (neither public nor private): common notions are completely oriented to making money, to generate and utilize technologies, to worship the body, to be as popular as possible, to reach wealth at any price, and so on and so forth. In other words, we have consciously organized our world on an egoistic basis and, as a consequence, rather that dignifying the human individual by making him more responsible of the world, humans within, we block the natural volition of humankind to live with the others, to live for the others as the best possible self-service, to back feed a healthy self-esteem, ... That's why I believe science can become an area of hopefulness for humankind in the future, provided we actually understand the crucial role of self-critique in science generation and the importance of learning other ways of thinking the world and the whole reality. ¿Don't you think so?

            Best regards,

            Alex

            P.-S. I shall read your paper in detail. Only then, I will be able to making comments to you; however, I can see in advance that it will be an enjoying experience.