Protogeometer: Falling Into Future by Vladimir I. Rogozhin

Very happy to see you at here

The essay has demonstrated extensive knowledge of your society with a particular interest for the future

Best wishes with the highest score for the passion and enthusiasm of you

Hải.CaoHoàng

Dear Vladimir (its nice being able to say that without feeling I am in a solipsistic loop!)

At first reading I could not say I understood everything in your essay, but I was struck by a sense of serious intent, an urgent search for answers, and a sweeping poetic vision that thinks nothing of the practical and political problems of moving the UN to Iceland! May this search and others give little Victoria and all of humanity a new lease of life well beyond 2030!

Your Protogemetre kept reminding me of Blake's paintings of Newton and another of the Ancient of Days bending down drawing figures on the ground with a giant compass. Reminiscent of Archemides drawing figures on the ground just before being killed by soldiers. I hope humanity and its best plans find a better fate!

Are you saying analytical geometrical thought has boxed in and limited human thought and reality, and that we should find another more natural starting point? Neo scientific Zen Buddhism rather than Greek logic?

Best wishes

Vladimir

Dear Vladimir!

At first let me apologize my longer comment, but because I keep important these thoughts putting here and relevant for the content we are speaking of, I hope, I do not overload you.

I found your essay one of masterpieces among lot of very good essays I could read until. You are giving very clear listing of the existential risks of the present state of humanity (at least meant homo sapiens sapiens), and also minimum program instructions how-tos addressed to at least for two of non-governmental structures.

Your essay establishes well-formed review from a forward look (time)arrow how the consciousness should had developed from the senses and evolutionary stages of early human and how those steps became a crisis of our contemporary science and understanding.

However, I'm a bit missing from your essay mentioning our next or back step being - ' homo sapiens sapiens sapiens' - (some says smarter human, some should say divine being :) in our human evolution, and their impact upon us and the present situation.

That almost recurrently fascinated and make us curious, as far as I could construe about such questions in my essay:

'...Are there natural or what kind of type (e.g. supposed divine) beings existing before present us, who have more advanced knowledge suggesting they are years ahead after present us? Are they very natural being, probably humans from the future or from the past or just they are in very PRESENT? ....'

Putting such type of questions and answering them being understandable for a broader audience are far going yet even in our present, and there are much controversial speculations about the 'true human origin'. However much had been answered by ancient philosophers. "...Asinine! What rot to think! As though the earlier non existent could born or might disappear fully what ever was. Since the never existent never would become existent, furthermore if it can completely pass away what exists it is not in the reality it is not in the thought. It is impossible owing to it contradicts with the law..."(Empedokles). Heraclitus argued in a paradox that the world constantly changes, and put the existence into that simplified formula 'everything goes on its course'.

You may be reading about homo divinus and some relevant information coming from controversial sources, however being freely present for our open-minded considerations.

Let me put here some notes too concerning your notes (focusing on the importance of the 'structure' an the ontology of mathematics, but keeping in mind the simplest secure guidelines freewill, faith, hope, love) put on my essay page reconciling with your one:

I hope, I'm not in misunderstanding of your meaning '..Only language of geometrical representations could become the language in which it would be possible to construct such Eidos...' But, I argue a bit, the word in English 'Eidos' meant in anthropological manner, on the contrary this statement also should entail a conclusion to dismiss a living human body capable of thinking itself as a possible analogy to model a working of a healthy social system too.

I feel the cause of "...Process of certainty loss began in the middle of the 19th century simultaneously in mathematics and physics..." much rather arising from a 'creational crisis' which entail a quite important added point to your listing of existential risks. [b[That is OUR IDENTITY CRISIS which for a long time had set in our very bodily genetic and our both individual and social or group consciousness - we should call noosphere.

How ways can be this IDENTITY CRISIS put into a right direction by only OPEN FREE SOURCE SCIENCE AND BUSINESS movement without an adequate pressing on the governmental structure too, I'm not able to construe with an eligibility at the moment.

I should like pointing out to you here too, I disseminated a lot of thoughts-stuff considering them toward for me and the overall process we are trying to resolve for a long time. If you have a passion and time and keep thoughts interpreted by me interesting and relevant, so you can find the links of essays to where I put relevant comment posts at the end of this post.

No to distract yon from the thread I want to mention with relevancy here however, I need to emphasize a similar essay to yours and quote some parts of my note put on.

*** The Tip of The Spear by George Gantz

I ought to think, the expression - humanity - need to be clarified first. Whether that is true or not, it seems to be a fact (as James Lee Hoover writes in his essay and Turil also brings forth a very diverse extra-ultra brains database conception) our species and population here on our present Earth are quite diverse, even may be intentionally genetically engineered either for a kind of betterment, or conveying lowered capacity being kept under a direction of some ones in charge. My very personal opinion is, all tremendous speculation about this huge topic is not an extra terrestrial matter of things at all. I had found someone's indication in his comment - we may be the creators of our own evolution even conceptualizing GOD or GODs. I can feel similar, therefore I conclude much rather we need to finely discern the operating of Natural evolutionary processes, and a probable consciously and intentionally engineered steerable evolutionary mechanism.

We also should not be unobservant in that of an actual group or social consciousness is mainly determined at institutional levels and may be conditioned by lead forces consisting individuals with service to self or service to others interest being unbalanced in them and even they may be also a kind of groups too. However, mainly they are who own yet presently those peculiar technologies (high energy or subtle energy manipulations with which possible to encroach into the natural matter and energy flowing and allows reality and consciousness manipulations)

***

We need to realize first there may be ones intentionally making or engineering a 'process of uncertainty' on the grounding sciences which would give us an intellectual proof making our awareness clear - how our creative energy and informal forces working behind our thinking process. The contemporary theoretical physics and philosophy of mind and physics is much more and rather would be a possible framework much scientifically speaking and describing the former esoteric mentioning about the layers of energy bodies and chakra system, the spiritual energy and information flow in a genetically arranged physical body in the meantime and both incorporate even at a higher structure level -we call planetary systems - those processes can form a complex cosmical organism.

However, as

*** ...Who Should Be Their Guides into the Future? by David Brown writes and put some question also need to be answered

"...Arthur C. Clarke suggested that a sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic..."

"...Does artificial intelligence have far more connection with molecular biology than with mathematics and foundational issues in physics? .."

"...Do foundational issues in physics have profound connections with psychology and religion?..."

***

You have pointed out in your essay too, the 'Vector of consciousness' and albeit, I can accept the code may be in fundamental patterns and VECTOR EQUILIBRIUM and more about

structural cosmometry, and also the concept of the isotropic vector matrix [cited: "...As Fuller states, because of this it is the zero-phase from which all other forms emerge (as well as all dynamic energy events.."] even it is controversial in itself [cited: '...According to Bucky Fuller, the VE is more appropriately referred to as a "system" than as a structure, due to it having square faces that are inherently unstable and therefore non-structural..."]

I deem, taking a fine discernment between the two notions 'system and structure.' A system may be composed of structure(s) however in broader mathematical sense not all structure can be automorf. Sometimes structures should become too rigid to keeping a system in working, and not necessarily can trasform into itself with an adequate manner. I mean, much about to deal with here the crystal symmetries and its transformations, how the artificially made crystals can substitute and elevate a system ...etc. That is a huge topics.

Albeit, as a present IT expert personally I did not deal either with Artificial Intelligence and probablehistory simulations

, I was intended writing my essay for ones who are seriously dealing with however such possible creational concepts.( Referring back to Empedokles as written above, if there were not such a possibilities ever in the thought it should not never had been in the thought.) However, I pointed out also in my essay the original creational technology being adequate for running a kind of simulations not necessary lays on a ground of a contemporary meant computer technology.

There are so much high topics involved here to put them into right order and context in our mind for our understanding and our present biosphere and noospehere is so constrained yet, there is truly a risk for loosing both our natural human and even any kind of artificially created characteristic which should drive us into a total devastation.

I keep my focus put on

*** history simulationsHow to Hack Human History by John Brodix Merryman

... working with: The - thoughts - the utmost capability for the MAN!

Explanation: The thought is energy and information (on many structured levels, even our emotions, deep senses are as much thoughts we are able to consciously formulate into being been intellectually aware, we should say a man is composed of his thoughts and his way for living in healthy organism and organization keeping his thoughts both intellectually and emotionally balanced. ) which allows us to create, to materialize around us our ideas, desires, will etc., independently from the existence exists in any kind of form we can conceive about it. The thought both local and non-local and exist neither in time and space and as much as the existence exists. So that above comprehension is what makes us to be a higher order being.

We are on the way to work out an utmost 'philosophy' at which apex should be the science about - physics of thoughts -! Used for our mutual benefit and health not for being our own autocratic oppressor!

The problem is not the 'money'! But, - How to change our thoughts about to be anything in our possession! Nothing and no one is in our possession in the Nature! However everything is at our disposal to live, work with it and using it, even researching with it to further develop. However,our ability is that too, drawing limits to ourselves - what is worth to know and steer, truly.

So who is entitled to own and steer anyone's thoughts by any means - magic, technology even any kind of ideology? This is a deep conflict yet between the higher intellect and emotions and all about how the free-will may be achieved and maintained in a socially organized living systems - a.k.a. kept in a living history database of our many lives memory under scrutiny yet.

***

My essay body content was not quite unfolding what its abstract suggested owing to the given 9 page was not sufficient for that huge topics. I focused much rather on the message given in the title. However, I truly think missing the crown of the physics of thought or at least its reconciliation with a re-considered philosophy being the utmost underlying ideological framework describing nature, society, and generally the most principal all-pervasive laws of the thinking process, with much simpler terms being - understandable - comprehesible for anyone. (For example as the notion philosppy exerts a [Latin-Greek: 'Philo' = (in composition) partake in, savant + 'Sophia' = wisdom of life] , but giving such enough geometry explanations which eligible for our understanding too living our life in the meantime as an average human.

I gladly contribute or participate in a kind of FREE OPEN project.

I look forward for hearing from you even to continue our conversation in the given e-mails, if you feel so.

Sincerely,

Valeria

---- My comment conversions threads put on essays

REALITY, ONCE by Joe Fisher

How Should Humanity Steer the Future? An interview with Einstein in Heaven by Vladimir F. Tamari

The Spiritual Big Bang: Origin of Universe by Damon Joseph Sproc

How Can People Plan for the Technological Future and Who Should Be Their Guides into the Future? by David Brown

How to Hack Human History by John Brodix Merryman

The Tip of The Spear by George Gantz

Planetary Procreation by Turil Sweden Cronburg

Hi Vladimir,

Very interesting essay. I like how you considered various risks, walked through great philosopher's ideas, and proposed practical ways to make them helpful for humanity.

Best regards,

Cristi

Dear Vladimir!

Thanks you for reading my long comment, and further looking after.

Sorry if there may be misunderstanding due to I haven't any knowledge about "protogeometer'. I did some looking after, however it is some 'gap' in my apprehension, in this sense.

In a broader view, I can also understand the mathematics and physics would be the highest abstraction languages with which relation and transformations of the spirit=(inherent)consciousness and physical body(as a vehicles of consciousness) would be described, giving more refined interpretation how the memory works through a medium we call - mind.

However, I a bit disagree, putting the 'image of 'man' somehow equal with an abstract symbolic systems. This is 'rigid' interpretation only, which can put outside one his own thoughts, who actually wish to conceptualize and describe the fundamental meaning through very himself..

This is a long time problem with remarkable thinkers, they are inclined to think out of his actual bodies. Simply said, they forget they are in a complex physical body meanwhile they are doing any kind of abstraction to describe, apprehend the fundamentals! So, even they may be at a highest level of understanding of the basics, even they can lose his humanness closer to an everyday man, during this process. This is bigger danger, than do not understand quite exactly the fundamentals! I only tried, to point out to this in my essay too.

High regard,

Valeria

Vladimir,

Excellent job again. If only we could educate our children to think in that way we'd have some chance. I picked out my favourite two proposals of your comprehensive 'road map' for a way ahead;

1) Deep radical reforms of education systems directed on education of the creative, responsible and ethical human. The philosophy and Ethics have to be the main basic disciplines in education of existentially open personality

2)..creation of Global system of search and selection of new knowledge.

Though I do wonder if our penchant for bureaucracy and self interest may allow those to function without the full package. In a way the monopoly of academia on point 2 has already planted us into a theoretical rut which is increasingly difficult to escape from.

Great essay, right on topic. I hope to see it near the top of the pile.

Peter

Vladimir,

I enjoyed reading your essay.

Your linking "converting power of the mind" and "the meaning for a genuine humanity" are right on.

I also like your list of what a "minimum program must include" but this list does not include any focus on empowering individual people that are really not an integral part of an institution, government, global body or even a for-profit or non-profit? Any reason to ignore the resourcefulness and imagination of the many individuals that make a difference on their own initiative?

- Ajay Bhatla

Dear Vladimir,

It was a very deep essay examining the human psyche. I think it is a little harder for me to follow analysis of human introspection because is isn't as discrete as the logic of mathematical equations, but I did give you a high rating. Personally I view the human body as a biochemical-vessel that interfaces to the human soul (which I believe is a form of subspace matter). I think this is compatible with your views as well.

It is interesting that you bring up Neanderthals. A theory of mine is that I have the same neurobiology as Einstein, which stems from Neanderthal genetics. If you research it, you will find that the back of his head was misshapen (read the volume dedicated to him in Times Magazine). I believe he had a Occipital Protuberence (like me), which is a genetic, anatomical trait. I also believe that Asperger's Syndrome is the psychological diagnosis of Neanderthal Neurobiology. It seems that many Neanderthal gene-traits appear to be recessive. My own genetic background is not Jewish as my surname comes from Viking Royalty. However, I believe that an ancient root connects Jews and Vikings together as many sources believe that Vikings descended from the Tribe of Benjamin. I notice your writings seem infused with Christian beliefs. I don't see contradictions from true Science and the Holy Bible, I just think a correct interpretation of the inherent symbolism is necessary to see the truth. I kinda wonder about translations and whether the Nephilim are connected to Neanderthals because Evolutionary Theory and the Bible do not seem to peacefully co-exist. While the Nephalim are considered evil, I see that fallen-angels used-to-be angels and that mankind has great capacity for either good or evil depending upon our choice (since God gave us the capacity to decide for ourselves). I know I have read about Giants being a mistranslation of fallen or sub-species of humans (in one of the Naked Archeologist's documentaries). I do believe that such roots yield knowledge to mankind that are important in the understanding of intellectual ability. I think it has to do with memory and neuro-processing architecture. My oldest son takes after me with a high Logical-IQ whereas my younger son seems more Crow Magnon (since he takes after my wife's traits of higher Emotional-IQ). My older son put it best when he said J.D. learns better than I do but I think better than him. I believe that IQ is highly misunderstood by society. Anyways, it is something to think about. I wish you great luck!

Sincerely,

Stephen Tuck

Dear Vladimir R,

Maybe, you will at least enjoy the reference to Coxeter in my essay. On the other hand, I admit having problems with your somewhat poetic style and thinking. Moreover, your text breathes Russian grammar even in English. So it is demanding to an old German like me who must switch between both foreign to me languages.

Nonetheless, I see us allies and quite different from those who omit either foundational questions or practical politics in their attempt to answer the question put in the contest.

May I hope for some comments or for answers to the question or comments I put e.g. to Kadin, St Pierre, Klingman, Shirazi, Gibbs, Khali, Singh, gaisin, Schlafly, Hossenfelder, Aßelmeyer, and Ashworth?

Regards,

Eckard