Doug,

Thanks. Your findings closely fit mine. I have two '4th tier' acceptances from a score of submissions. I estimated penetration by ~2020 so I am an optimist - but tenacious. One referee rejected a paper as it identified 'quasar era' peaks from data. Within 3 months others noticed. Now they're ubiquitous, but still not coherently interpreted! 'Unfair' is certainly one of many valid descriptions! I burnt my bridges with maths last years essay, generalizing Godel to show maths as just 'good approximation'!

Back to physics (or rather 'nature', which is a bit different!) My model does cover 'photons' and all spin ½ cases, indeed even just a wavefront! The electrons and 'flip' discussed are the detector (polariser/filter) EM field electrons. The setting rotates and flips their orientation, so the interaction 'finding' is then reversed. There are then 2 ways of looking at it subject to the experiment; The electron reverses the photon spin. Or we could just consider the photomultipliers. If one is set clockwise, one anti, and both are reversed, then the OTHER one will click! But we still get random 50:50 up/down.

In Bohm's terms; The fact that a spinning body (i.e. Earth) has TWO hemispheres still means that total spin (between two opposite planets) = 0. Linear momentum conservation ensures they're found opposite if not rotated, but we CAN rotate Earth's poles on the y or z axis while CONSERVING it's spin angular momentum!! that is a MASSIVELY important new realisation (think of a gyroscope - we can rotate it's axis as it spins). So what was found clockwise from point A is now found anticlockwise. Anybody can repeat that experiment for twopence! Bell made the same error; excluding that valid physical description of "collapse to a singlet state on measurement".

Not only is classical QM really that simple, but the same interaction process with c being measured in the centre of mass frame of each electron, then constrains our common interpretation of SR's postulates to make them genuinely local and consistent with the QM description = Unification. That may be considered 'ambitious' but it simply is what it is. I can't help it. You may have thought a result like that would turn anybodies head! Apparently it does. It makes the indoctrinated and narrow visioned turn and look away!

I suspect what it needs is a 'list' of authors, mostly with 'credentials' and with various specialisms to overcome editor/reviewer fear. That or a 'superstar' sponsor. What thinks thee?

Best wishes

Peter

Returning to log in and post this (a new habit!) I've just seen Tom's post above, but not yet read it. Lets see if it confirms my point. P.

Tom,

Yes you do prove my point to Doug above, but I can see why. First; I've made it clear a dozen times I agree Bells maths is a tautology. Missing that explains why you miss the other key points below;

1. Spin considered in a centre of mass rest frame has a flat equatorial plane disc. That's the case of detector field electrons (Polariser/analyser/photomultiplyer).

2. Spin as conserved Angular Momentum when also considered with conserved LINEAR momentum describes a helical path, as I described in detail last year. Except that I now also describe the transfer of OAM as 'measurement' on interaction of the stationary and 'arriving' case, in 'time' (Hopf) and with TWO 'global' sets of y,z axis rotational freedoms.

Those geometries are now at least the same 'size' as Joy's who seems to describe a very similar thing as 'tortion', which I'm sure may be just as valid. But then our descriptions seem to further diverge; I show how a real classical and causal physical model (the rotational speed distribution with latitude) COMPELS the Cos^2 "prediction of QM" which Bell said is impossible, and Feynman said;

"We choose to examine a phenomenon which is impossible, absolutely impossible, to explain in any classical way, and which has in it the heart of quantum mechanics. In reality, it contains the only mystery. We cannot make the mystery go away by "explaining" how it works. We will just tell you how it works. In telling you how it works we will have told you about the basic peculiarities of all quantum mechanics." (Lectures Vol 111, 1-1).

Now ignoring my essay and re-stating Joy's description reduces to; "I don't believe that as I believe something else", If your disagreement with my derivation is to have any validity at all you must show why. i.e. specifically WHERE it's wrong, or that it doesn't produce the Cos^2 relation with 'angle change' which I show it does (not to mention the 'reversal' at 90 degrees, and the uncertainty of direction at the equator).

To find a point of agreement, most will of course see it as 'ambitions' because it allows convergence of QM and SR. What it seems you refuse to countenance, apparently always jaundicing your view is the possibility that the 'common interpretation' of SR is constrained (given spatial limits below infinity) to allow QM to be consistent with the postulates. In physics NO possibility should be 'ruled out' or theory re-tested at all opportunity for a better interpretation, even SR. What doesn't kill it makes it stronger!

If you read my post to Doug above then more carefully read the essay, with those blinkers off and mind wide open, you should pick up the bit's you've missed. I promise it won't hurt! (I do admit if it were a paper some bits would be more clinically explained).

Best wishes

Peter

John,

I not only agree evidence of time is all derivative of sequences so it's not fundamental, but also that the realisation that it's only a distraction from understanding is also very important. I'm not sure that makes it 'fundamental' in the same way that things are fundamental in nature, and my point is that assuming it is can make it just as much of a distraction! That's not to say it's "nothing more than a the pet obsession", as it certainly IS more! However I point out that it's the implications on other science that matter.

I know you take interest in other areas, but I point our your expressed disinterest in the unification potential of making QM classically comprehensibly may be more to do with it's current INcomprehensibiliy than the role of it's solution as the key to THE BIG solution (actually along WITH 'time' as just an 'absolute' rate).

The trouble with distilling to solutions is that people also demand to see the workings! So I've done both, but with geometry not maths. You should certainly understand that as the Earth spins the rotational velocity of Miami as greater than that of NY (as the circumference at Miami's latitude is longer). What I show is that taking the angle from the centre of Earth equatorial plane to each point on the surface, the change in speed VARIES BY THE COSINE OF THE ANGLE!

(the speed represents the angular momentum 'energy' found at each point from the non rotating rest frame). That is a massive new realisation that should unite classical and quantum physics (along with the workings I show). That is described as the 'Holy Grail' of physics because it fundamentally explains the great anomalies and paradoxes in just about EVERY field of science. The leap ahead in understanding of nature, and with technology, is inestimable.

But everyone is too distracted by relative minutii!! The paper you should now have is just one glimpse into one small aspect. I hope you enjoy it and see it's consequences.

Best wishes

Peter

" ... I agree Bells maths is a tautology. Missing that explains ..."

Dude, Bell's theorem is a theorem, a mathematically true statement. That it can't be proven by any but a nonconstructive method does not make it a logical tautology. All theorems are tautologies in the strict sense of being mathematically true, i.e., recursively self-referential and consistent with a given system of axioms.

Until you understand the mathematics that supports Bell's work, I'm afraid you are getting nowhere toward explaining quantum correlations by your non-mathematical method.

I support Joy's research not because I am a troglodyte, blindered, backward, 'missing something' or any of the other many insults you have unleashed on me these past few years. I support it because it gives a complete explanation of strong quantum correlations without ad hoc assumptions. It is in exactly the same tradition as motivated Einstein's general relativity. A reporter once asked Einstein how he arrived at GR; he answered, "by challenging an axiom." What he meant by that, is that by accepting Riemann's application of non-Euclidean geometry -- which replaces the fifth postulate of Euclid -- one gets a 4-dimensional Pythagoras theorem that increases the range of coordinate transformations in 3-dimensional space (spacetime). This applies only up to diffeomorphism, however; Joy's framework makes it possible to extend the theory to active diffeomorphism, which makes the measure space complete and therefore potentially completes Einstein's program of classical physics at the foundational level.

If you don't want to know what I think, don't ask. I don't think you're an idiot. I just disagree with you. And I know I'm not an idiot -- so knock it off.

Peter,

Trying to peel some of the layers of that paper, but to do it properly would take weeks, if not months. A lot of interesting and seemingly fairly solid detail.

I would argue with continuing to assume redshift is evidence of the universe having been 'born' and expanded out, rather than an effect of the expansion of light across intergalactic distances and thus balancing the equivalent infall of mass into those galaxies, creating a total recycling effect. Resulting in overall flat space.

As I also keep pointing out and if you accept time is essentially an aspect of action/frequency and not part of that 'four dimensional fabric of spacetime,' then the presumed mechanism of that universal expansion doesn't even exist, anymore than the giant cosmic gearwheels of epicycles exist!

Space is left alone as that universal, infinite equilibrium state, which needs no further explanation, because it has no physical attributes to explain. Nothing to bend, bind, dissolve, create, etc. Simply zero as the empty state, not a point on a three dimensional graph. The blank sheet of paper, not a point at the center.

As I also keep pointing out, they still assume a stable speed of light across those expanding distances, since those distant galaxies will presumably disappear. So what is the basis of that stable dimension defining C, if the very fabric of space is expanding? If they are going to denominate space in lightyears, that would make expansion a numerator and thus only increasing distance, not expanding space. That would then mean we would have to be at the exact center of the universe, with everything expanding directly away.

So I do take the implications on the other sciences into account, but since few people are will to consider the initial premise, the conversation doesn't always get that far.

Regards,

John

Thanks for answering, Peter. And thanks again for reviewing my own essay. I'll be rating yours (along with the others on my review list) some time between now and May 30. All the best, and bye for now, - Mike

Peter,

I think your essay is outstanding and very creative. I like it very much. We don't agree on everything. At least I agree that "there was no boundary between the classical and quantum worlds". If I may explain that KQID theory is monism. Therefore there is only one physics and one entangled hologram Existence. KQID Five Ones: one source Qbit( 00, +, -), one principle of "Giving first Taking later", one theory of "bit is it, and it is bit", one formula Ee^iτ = A + S ⊆ T that iteratively produce unitary one (1), that creates and distributes one entangled hologram Existence. We are all connected.

Your essay is a masterpiece, it is unique and it is creative. I rated your essay the highest score ten (10). I noted from your comment that many trolls in this contest thus I noted that before I voted you got 5.9 average score voted by 42, now it is 6.0 voted by 43.

I wish you the best and hope we can become friends,

Leo KoGuan

Tom,

My full reply seems to have gone!

Again Tom you've missed that I've AGREED Bell is mathematically correct. i.e. he says that classically; "0 + 1 = 1" whereas QM proves the answer is '2'. However he's also saying that applies to 'sides of a spinning coin". What I show is that there are 2 sides to each coin, each spinning the 'opposite' direction. So I classically reproduce 2 with 1+1.

I then also reproduce the cosine curve distribution by using a sphere not a coin, because rotational speed varies with latitude by the cosine of the angle from the equatorial plane to any point on that circumference. Now that's a fact which you can't "disagree" with (or if you do please correct my geometry and dynamics). I don't think it appropriate to call people 'idiots', indeed I've even said I don't 'expect' most to grasp the complex implications before 2020. In most cases it's blind faith that old doctrines can't be challenged in the slightest. That's human nature, however I'd point out 'scientific advancement' is all about 'change'.

Peter

John,

Another comprehensive post vanished it seems. How easy is it to loose the will to live?! I've just responded to you on the competition blog which I hope may answer most of your points. I still point out you're making the same fundamental error about 'space' as Einstein. it's no 'matter' but matter condenses from it IN SOME REST FRAME to then act as the reference datum for local propagation speed of EM fluctuations. So space in not 'matter' but it has a definite non zero role. Do you also deny the Higgs mechanism that relies on it? if so where does condensed matter come from in your alternative schema?!

My 2012 essay shows that to be the case conclusively. The saddest thing is we've known this since 1921 but still fear to admit if due to a flawed interpretation of the beautifully sound SR postulates. If only we re-interpreted it as Einstein suggested in 1952 the anomalies and paradoxes evaporate.

Best wishes

Peter

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  • Post #130

Peter,

No matter how elaborate one's way of getting something wrong and calling it right, understanding the mathematical model makes the error objectively apparent.

"Again Tom you've missed that I've AGREED Bell is mathematically correct. i.e. he says that classically; "0 + 1 = 1" whereas QM proves the answer is '2'."

Bell's instrument is an inequality of relations in a quantum mechanical system, an analytical tool. The '2' you are thinking of, is the CHSH classically local upper bound of quantum correlations. Refining that for a quantum upper bound, Tsirelson derived 2\/2 (which was independently derived by Joy Christian). This bound is shown trivially true in a measurement of correlations in a simple 2-state quantum mechanical system (qubit) which is equivalent to the discrete observed states of a fair coin. The Tsirelson bound for a Bell inequality is a harder case: Bell's inequality is explicitly classical (it assumes the continuum), while CHSH is explicitly quantum (all outcomes are + 1, - 1, never 0).

"However he's also saying that applies to 'sides of a spinning coin". What I show is that there are 2 sides to each coin, each spinning the 'opposite' direction. So I classically reproduce 2 with 1+1."

Which doesn't mean anything, because you've forgotten that - 1 is the outcome of the opposite vector for a measured result of + 1. Your description only works with a two-headed coin.

Yes, I know from experience that you will think up some yet more elaborate way to obscure your error. You can't obscure it out of existence, however.

"I then also reproduce the cosine curve distribution by using a sphere not a coin, because rotational speed varies with latitude by the cosine of the angle from the equatorial plane to any point on that circumference. Now that's a fact which you can't 'disagree' with (or if you do please correct my geometry and dynamics)."

The issue has nothing to do with the continuous rotational speed of a 3 dimension sphere; it has to do with the discrete measured state of a 2-dimension coin (+ 1 or - 1). What your conclusion says is that observing a point on a sphere moving in one direction implies that it is moving at the same speed in the opposite direction at the antipodal point. This is trivially true in 3 dimensions (by Brouwer's fixed point theorem). However, observers at antipodal points cannot communicate with one another instantaneously; they will only ever measure their discrete states as "heads" by your program.

Only a higher dimension measurement framework allows the classical probability of a two-sided fair coin as a hidden variable solution to Bell's inequality. Joy's framework explains it as the nonzero torque of the parallelized 3-sphere, which is the analog of a 3-dimension sphere in 4 dimension space. The bottom line is, Bell's theorem already proves that the limit of classical measurement values in 3 dimension space begs the assumption of nonlocality which in turn begs linear superposition, quantum entanglement and a probabilistic measure space. One cannot derive a classical, i.e. continuous field, framework from a 3 dimension measurement framework -- and demonstrably, you don't.

Best,

Tom

Peter,

Since I don't treat time as an actual dimension, the issue of, "where does matter come from" isn't really a question. It exists. It doesn't go anywhere and so it doesn't have to come from anywhere. There is an equilibrium between positive and negative, thus balancing the curvature of the measure of space, but they can never cancel out, since space is also infinite. So there is that inherent tension between the absolute of space, pulling everything together and the infinity of space, the vacuum, pulling everything apart. Thus we have these convection cycles of expanding energy and contracting mass.

My response to your post on the contest thread;

"My point is that it's even far simpler than that. School children understand the principle of suction, as they drink milk from a straw and that is the essential principle by which the monetary system draws value out of every nook and cranny of the economy, since it functions as the economic circulatory system, forcing the rest of the economy to suction even more value out of social and environmental resources. This is why it was described as an octopus a hundred years ago and Matt Talibi refers to it as a giant vacuum squid, attached to the face of the economy, in Rolling Stone.

The point is that it is as much a necessary public utility as roads, courts, police, etc., but the way it is currently organized, it is the worst of all possible worlds for the larger economy and best for the financial sector, since with the way the central bank is organized, risks are public and rewards are private. Thus the taxpayer bailed out the banks and none of them went to jail.

Maybe your idea has far more cosmic significance, but this is what is one factor we can actually do something about the next time it all blows up. Though it seems doubtful few involved in this contest will be of much help."

Regards,

John

Peter,

I noticed that your comment to Doug Singleton may be misconstrued as suggesting photons are spin 1/2, which I know from the blogs you well understand isn't the case. I know your solution also covers spin 1 but suspect Doug missed that and you may have missed that he did so.

Daniel Dewey's comment above is similar. Co-incidentally I've just commented on Dan's essay. It seems lack of familiarity with fundamental physics hides the great problem of Unification from more than we realise. I agree it seriously confuses all areas from cosmology to neurons and electrons, i.e. 'everything'.

However clear and important your case is there are many who haven't understood that so the argument needs repeating. I see it as the human brains weakness of often only seeing immediate not consequential effect. I still think your essay gives the most massive direction and advance of any here. Don't loose heart!

I'm still surprised that's missed by so many but I do now better understand your view that it may be 2020 before man has the vision. Do you think that acceptance of that might make you a little too laconic in presenting the case?

I really hope your essay finishes strongly, for our sake as much as yours!

Judy

    Hi Peter,

    I thank you for the high rate which gave me.

    I have gone over your essay and I am interested and impressed by your ideas and believe that it disserves a high rate. Unfortunately I will be quite busy these upcoming weeks and we will have to postpone our discussion. After the 12th of June I will give you a more detailed feedback regarding your essay.

    Best regards,

    Petio H

    Tom,

    "The '2' you are thinking of, is the CHSH classically local upper bound of quantum correlations" No, that's certainly not the 2 I was thinking of! The two I described is the result of 1+1. And you clearly didn't read my essay properly if you suggest I've "forgotten" +1 is the opposite direction to -1." It seems you're so determined not to 'see' what I've shown you'd insist black is white! The moment you come to my actual derivation of the quantum cosine distribution you ignore it and revert to avoidance with; "The issue has nothing to do with..."

    If you think nature prefers coins to sphere's then you'll never understand the model, or that BOTH have bot +1 and -1 spins; subject to orientation (north v south poles). How on Earth you think both heads and tails are measured 'heads' without the additional rotation I invoke is beyond me. I can take the horse to water Tom but I know well I can't make it drink if it's decided not to.

    I've done my best, and I'm pleased so many DO see and understand how the states and distributions emerge. A number of essays here identify the problem you're demonstrating. The determination to stick with prior beliefs come what may. From past experience it IS what I expected, though I'd hoped to find there was a limit when the solution was clear. But I don't think you should believe your befuddlement is shared by others Tom.

    If you'd like to try to prove how my cosine distribution is NOT the identical cosine distribution predicted by QM then I'd be interested because that's science. I believe only in the principles of Occam, I'm not interested in the belief based pseudo-science that holds back our progress.

    Peter

    Very interesting essay, Peter. You did a great job of mirroring the science with human themes. I particularly liked the way you parallel a pair of particles with a pair of people. You used macroscopic objects to illustrate QM ideas beautifully.

    The idea of spin within spin is fascinating and completely new to me, although I admit I'm not qualified to judge whether it gets around Bell's prohibition on local hidden variables. It wasn't quite clear to me what the implications for how we should steer the future would be, but resolving the conflict between QM and relativity would certainly be a huge breakthrough.

    I very much enjoyed your essay in any case. Good luck in the contest!

    Best,

    Robert

    Tom,

    Trying to make sense of your comments it occurred to me that you must have missed the recursive quantum gauges I invoked and referenced, which seem to be what you're talking about in terms of the 'higher dimensional measurement framework'. You should also recall I'd established the 'higher dimension spaces' in last years essay and the paper I posted on Classical Spheres thread which I assume you read.

    It rather threw me to find you suddenly assuming I hadn't done that and had for some reason dropped it. I haven't dropped it at all! Just follow my references to the Planck Institute paper and indeed the finding of gauged helicity in the sun.

    As always it's an erroneous assumption that you make which takes you off track. The model I present applies separately at ALL gauges, so it rather 'chases down' quantum uncertainty through all scales to the computational limit. What Joy refers to as some kind of 'inherent torsion' of space is simply that gauged fractal sequence of helical motions.

    The fact is that in any event the quantum correlations are perfectly reproduced with self apparent 3D+t geometry in the schema I describe. I appreciate your devotion to Joy's description but please don't make the mistake of assuming that means there's no other way of describing nature.

    Peter

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    • Post #137

    "What Joy refers to as some kind of 'inherent torsion' of space is simply that gauged fractal sequence of helical motions."

    No, Peter, that isn't it at all. The space of Joy's measurement framework is a simply connected topology. The nonvanishing torsion of a parallelized 3-sphere is analogous to what happens with a Mobius strip; what we see as a 1-sided manifold in 3 dimensions is 2-sided in 4 (quaternionic) dimensions, which is limited by 8 (octonionic) dimensions. This limit of factorizability in the division algebras is what permits the locally real result - a.b that guarantees sign reversibility in the dot product, something Bell-Aspect finds impossible to reproduce in the measure space of a multiply connected probabilistic framework. It takes an analytical framework of complete measurement functions continuous from the initial condition, in a coordinate-free and scale independent geometry, to have perfectly anticorrelated results independent of where and when an observer makes a measurement.

    "The fact is that in any event the quantum correlations are perfectly reproduced with self apparent 3D+t geometry in the schema I describe."

    I stayed out of it -- but as Richard Gill told you, there are many arbitrary ways of getting the cosine distribution. What Bell's theorem tells us, is that it is impossible to have non-arbitrary correlations of quantum values without assuming that 1/2 of the pair are nonlocal; i.e., not measured. In other words, the observer plays a role in the measurement, just as in your schema. In a space of complete measurement functions, the observer is independent of the initial condition (detector settings). All correlations are objective and local. In Bell-Aspect as well as in your method, the measure space is oriented by the observer; the orientation of Joy's framework is determined by the topology.

    "I appreciate your devotion to Joy's description but please don't make the mistake of assuming that means there's no other way of describing nature."

    That misses the meaning of 'foundational.' If quantum mechanics could be shown to be a complete theory (it can't be), nature is observer created, not objective and not locally real. There are many, many ways of showing this empirically, including your method. Only a mathematically complete theory can make true scientific predictions independent of the empirical result.

    Best,

    Tom

    Dear Peter

    Always I suspect that entanglementhas kas classic basis. In any case classical theories are those with infinite velocity of informstion propagation. I put 10 scores for your essay

    My best regards

    Miroslaw

    Judy,

    Thanks. I've clarified to Doug that QM is logical for both photons and electrons. Sorry if I'm laconic. It's a massive advancement, but I'll only get upset if I expect it to be seen by all.

    I feel as I do helming a yacht when the race crew are distracted. I've worked on strategy and tactics and have a direct route to success, but when it comes to the last manoeuvre no matter what I say they're all looking in different directions, chatting or wandering around aimlessly, so we fail.

    Preparation is everything, but they say the most important bit of kit on the boat is the nut on the end of the tiller extension (the helmsman). Unfortunately he can be a genius to no avail if he can't get the message to the crew. But it does no good ranting. A good skipper must be patient, but must also inspire.

    Thanks for your support. I hope you finish strongly.

    Best wishes

    Peter

    Dear Peter,

    I enjoy reading your essay especially your discussion on quantum entanglement.

    It turns out that my theory Model Mechanics has a physical explanation for quantum entanglement as follows: A photon is a wave-packet in neighboring E-Strings in the E-Matrix. When a photon is chopped into two pieces these pieces become mirror images of each other and thus they become entangled as they travel in the opposite directions in these neighboring E-Strings.

    I tried to give your essay a high rating but I was enable to do so. In fact I was not able to give anybody a rating at all. I will contact the administrator to correct the problem.

    Regards,

    Ken