Why Quantum?

Eckard

Yes, the start-point vs end-point measurement is what makes the seemingly paradoxical nature of SR so frustrating. My answer has been to postulate that energy density varies in direct proportion to true velocity across the wave length as an acceleration/deceleration event. I don't want to abuse the forum in self-promotion, but would argue that the constancy of light velocity is properly measured relative to the waveform itself rather that in relation only from the start or end point of observation. Then SR is both demystified and generally co-variant in terms of energy density. jrc

Lawrence,

I think that both our world views are pretty fixed. You're an atheist down the core who doesn't believe in an afterlife. I am a Spiritualist who believes in the existence of spirits, an afterlife, and God. Neither of our world views are going to change. For my part, one of the problems I have with atheism is that it is so entrenched in cynisism. I don't even think that atheists believe that there exists physics beyond GR and QM, other than some quantum gravity theory. Some of the things I liked about Spiritualism was their positivity, their sense of hope, as well as the countless uncanny evidences from psychic readings, and the entities that I've personally witnessed, and my fiance who was assaulted by a ghost (shoved down the stairs), and this nagging feeling that wave-functions mathematics is describing an all pervasive spirit.

Now, I agree with you that there are people who claim paranormal phenomena who are just painful to watch. They take pictures of dust particles and bugs and call them spaceships. So I totally agree with you that there is a lot of crap in the paranormal literature. But on the other hand, there are a few really good jewels in there as well. It warms my heart when a skeptic is confronted by a ghost, an entity, grey aliens, or some psychic who is so talented that they make it look like something impossible is going on. I've listened to cold readers and they sound like crap; they sound all intellectual, like their guessing, it sounds forced, it doesn't flow. My break is over, but I just wanted you to know that my philosophical beliefs are based in impressive evidence, not junk, not hooey.

I don't see any evidence that the physics community is able to detect ghosts. There could be shadow figures flying around people's living rooms or evil entities with glowing red eyes haunting families and physically attacking peopple, and the physics community would have no ability to confirm this. All these ghosts really need is some ability to manipulate virtual photons to create potential energies.

jcr,

If something happens at a moment (1) then a belonging signal arrives at an observer at a later moment (2). (1) and (2) are not points in space but points of time. Moment (2), the now, is the natural zero of always positive elapsed time. You wrote "true velocity across the wavelength". Perhaps you referred to the propagation of light in empty space. Michelson's 1881/87 experiments led to the unexpected result that light does not propagate like sound relative to the wavelength along a medium. In case point (P1) of emission is moving relative to point (P2) of arrival, (P2-P1 at 1) differs from (P2-P1 at 2). The velocity of light relates then to the distance (P2 at 2) - (P1 at 1). This easily explains Michelson's null result without invoking mystical length contraction and also without SR.

Please don't shy back from convincingly offering something else. Your hint to energy density worries me. Doesn't it decrease with growing radius in case of a radiating sphere? Also, I wonder if SR needs considering acceleration/deceleration.

The question "why quantum" sound to me a bit like an unnecessary attempt to resolve the discrepancy between Einstein's relativity and quantum theory by questioning the latter. That's why I dislike your just "seemingly paradoxical nature of SR".

Eckard

I did not indicate anything about what I believe with regards to metaphysical ideas and so forth. I do though think one needs to keep ideas about spiritualism independent of scientific thought. The idea that the Higgs field is somehow related to ghosts or spirits running around is pure buncomb.

LC

Jason, being so knowledgeable about ghosts, I would like to know:

1. Does time flow for ghosts OR do they have different ages?

2. Are there female and male ghosts, and if there are can they copulate to give birth to more ghosts?

Thanks,

Akinbo

Lawrence, the address is: http://fmoldove.blogspot.com/. I am doing a series on differential and algebraic geometry to introduce the tools needed to discuss gauge theory and the standard model. It's all very good stuff explained intuitively: homotopy, homology, cohomology, de Rham, Hodge. Then I want to explain fiber bundels, Yang-Mills and the relationship with general relativity. Last I'll explain non-commutative geometry.

By the way, I did obtained QM from physical principles. I have a preprint in alpha release and by the end of next month will be in beta release (the archive). I am searching now for a suitable journal (Reviews in Mathematical Physics, Advances in Mathematical Physics, Journal of Physics A: Mathematical and Theoretical, Journal of Mathematical Physics). I have to decide before the archive upload because they all have different styles you need to follow. Here is the abstract:

"Quantum and classical mechanics are derived using four natural physical principles: (1) the laws of nature are invariant under time evolution, (2) the laws of nature are invariant under tensor composition, (3) the laws

of nature are relational, and (4) positivity (the ability to define a physical state). Quantum mechanics is singled out by a fifth experimentally justified postulate: nature violates Bell's inequalities."

I derive the Poisson algebra for classical mechanics and the phase and Hilbert space formulation for QM all in a constructive fashion.

Lawrence,

I think you're getting the idea of number confused with the idea of function. It cannot be true that "... the wave function being real means complex numbers are all real." Complex numbers have no preference for the real line; only when the imaginary part is zero, do complex numbers behave as real numbers. Therefore, it also does not follow that "Physically the nonlocal properties of QM simply can't be reduced to a classical realization."

Nonlocality is a necessary assumption of applying the n-dimension Hilbert space formalism to quantum mechanical phenomena; it is not a result.

Only were the wave function equal to zero, and therefore not continuous, would it be both necessary and sufficient to frame physics in a completely probabilistic measure schema. Every physical result would have a definite probability -- a quantum number -- on the closed interval [0,1]. However, because we know that the wave function evolves deterministically, we also know that this is not true. Numerical discreteness does not determine a continuous function; it's the other way around.

Attached is a piece I am working on at the moment, to help frame the problem of continuous functions vs. quantum numbers.

Best,

TomAttachment #1: The_CHSH_result_is_free_of_context.pdf

Eckard

Thank-you for your willingness to discuss alternative ideas. While I am in general agreement with you as to the time parameter, what I stress is that the single wavelength can be described as a closed system with a start point and end point in space. It creates a finite volume which is constant for any wavelength but which is protracted as a partition of the Planck Quantum between an electrodynamic charge coupled with an accelerating charge which propels the rest moment quantity to peak periodic velocity at mid point of wavelength. The model I developed needs further refinement but results in a spectrum of continuous transform from a prolate spheroid to oblate spheroid of energy volume. Where the Second Law is violated in this closed quantum system is in the collapse of the volume in the second half of the wavelength, recovering the accelerating charge at end point of wavelength. Again, I don't want to get on my own soapbox and shout, but the volumetric transformation is rigorously precise and the rationalization of the volume of the rest moment electrodynamic charge at peak velocity expands laterally and contracts longitudinally which together with a reduction of density in that peak velocity cylindrical disc by a value of 1 magnitude of light velocity is consistent with the difference of electric field strength and magnetic field strength. This computed out as consistent with the observed upper and lower bounds of the EM spectrum based on a qualitative property of density which assigns requisite densities to produce response as kinetic (inelastic), electrostatic (elastic), magnetic (fluid), and gravitational (ethereal) physical properties of energy.

This is admittedly a naïve model, but the point to be made is that ANY model that provides the mechanics which allows velocity to be measured from the waveform itself rather than an observer position can explain the constancy of light velocity and the null result of Michelson-Morely.

By the way, I'm from Ohio. The collaboration of Michelson and Morely led to the consoldation of Case University and Western Reserve into the esteemed Case Western Reserve University of today. The CRC Dictionary of Scientific and Technical Terms was originally a publication of the Cleveland Rubber Company. These days we have the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Not that in not an old Rolling Stones fan, it's just a bit of a come-down. jrc

Hi Lawrence,

Why would anomalous faster than light propagations make QM sick? Wouldn't FTL be a threat to GR? Not QM?

Hi Akinbo,

I extrapolated from the Higgs field that there is a range between particles and fields; I expect there to be more fields that we haven't discovered, with bosons that are even harder to detect (if not impossible). So in my view, reality is made out of particles and fields.

Now as far as ghosts are concerned, and the fact that nobody really knows for sure, I decided that the great cosmic answer should look like this. There is only one observer, one infinite observer, and that infinite observer is God. God creates universes and then wants to experience them by subdividing his consciousness into something that can incarnate (or reincarnate) into bodies, called souls. So you have a soul, you reincarnate, and you are part of this Infinite consciousness that we call God.

When a soul incarnates into a biological body, that soul takes on additional layers, like interfaces; think of a Russian doll. When we die, we're supposed to shed our astral body and go into the light. A ghost forgoes going into the light which results in not shedding the astral body (which experiences entropy). Ghosts will wander the lower astral plane in pursuit of whatever motivates that ghost. Sometimes they get stuck in old insane asylums, prisons, hospitals and often the residences where they lived when they were alive. Ghosts can sleep for decades until disturbed by the living. Ghosts can be male, female, human or other. Ghosts do not make babies because a ghost is just a soul that has not shed its astral body after death of the physical body. The soul evolves and grows by having experiences in the physical body; while biological evolution is driven by environmental pressures (survival, etc), the soul evolves by experiencing life.

The existence of a spirit world would suggest a second timeline. The first timeline is from the physical space-time continuum. When a soul passes into spirit, there would have to be another timeline for that, but details are sketchy at this time.

Thanks Jason for being forthright and honest in saying, "Now as far as ghosts are concerned, and the fact that nobody really knows for sure...". I believe in establishing truth with old method of reductio ad absurdum so I have more questions for you to enlighten my soul (I am happy to have one) and to prove and establish the existence of ghosts, spirits, etc.

"There is only one observer, one infinite observer, and that infinite observer is God. God creates universes and then wants to experience them"

What was God doing before creating the universe, and for how long was he doing that? Where was he living? Is there a place called heaven and is it in this universe or another one?

"Ghosts can sleep for decades until disturbed by the living. Ghosts can be male, female, human or other"

Do cockroaches, ants, bacteria have souls and ghosts? What of viruses and plants? I ask because I want to know whether they share in the sub-divisions of God's consciousness you mentioned since they are living things.

"and the entities that I've personally witnessed, and my fiance who was assaulted by a ghost (shoved down the stairs)"

Please convey my sympathy and hope no serious injuries? For a ghost to shove her, firstly it must be wicked and so capable of thinking and it must be able to exert force, and to do this from Newton's second and third laws, ghosts must have Mass. And what has mass must be matter. What sort of matter could this be, dark matter?

Regards,

Akinbo

One of the reasons why I like the ghost-spirit hypothesis is because it's the halfway point between "gross matter" and nothing at all. Spirit is like a nothingness that is too subtle to notice, yet it does something. An Infinite Consciousness might be able to imprint upon this nothingness a set of rules, release it, and watch what happens. As these creations become more complex, it might become harder to see what happens.

"What was God doing before creating the universe, and for how long was he doing that? Where was he living? Is there a place called heaven and is it in this universe or another one?"

I liked Dr Ebon Alexander's explanation (the neuroscientist who had the NDE experience), Dr. Ebon had experienced that God has created many universes, like grapes on a vine. I like that representation. If you were an Infinite Being, Creator of universes, wouldn't you create a heaven, a paradise for souls who love you and want to be with you? I think that God can manifest a heaven on earth, I think of legendary places like Shamballa and the book: Life and Teachings of the Masters of the Far East. It's very magical. Everlasting life is possible. As for time scales, I'm not sure how to estimate time beyond the space-time continuum.

"Do cockroaches, ants, bacteria have souls and ghosts? What of viruses and plants? I ask because I want to know whether they share in the sub-divisions of God's consciousness you mentioned since they are living things."

I've heard of the idea of a group soul where hives, ant hills, and other clusters of insects share a single soul; and that soul evolves over a long time, across many species and eventually incarnates as a human. But one must be careful about thinking about such things because you will have realizations that are troubling. I guess God wanted an adventure, and guess what! You're it. lol

"Please convey my sympathy and hope no serious injuries? For a ghost to shove her, firstly it must be wicked and so capable of thinking and it must be able to exert force, and to do this from Newton's second and third laws, ghosts must have Mass. And what has mass must be matter. What sort of matter could this be, dark matter?"

Apparently, she was able to made peace with this spirit until she eventually moved out. The way I understand it, a ghost can store energy in the energy eigenstates of a wave-function (created by the spirit). How much energy does it take to push someone off balance? 10 Newton-meters maybe? That energy can come from the victim, from cold spots, from batteries, from other sources. Just a passing thought, a ghost might be able to absorb a tiny amount of momentum from it's victim over a long time (a few hours maybe) and then give it back all at once. It's just an idea. Could dark matter be at play? I don't know. I had imagined a scenario where the grey aliens are dark matter lifeforms who are aware of us, but we're not aware of them. So they occasionally abduct us just to check us out, or perform bizarre science experiments on us. There are possibilities that are freakish that could actually be true. In fact, if they know about us, but we don't know about them (other than the crazies who say they've been abducted) that gives the grey aliens a significant advantage over us as play-things.

Akinbo,

By the way, given all of the unknowns that still cannot be resolved by physics/philosophy, I think that we should entertain ideas of God, ghosts and grey aliens because, first, it's fun. Second, there could be some truth to it, and third, it might lead to some interesting new ways of looking at the physics.

"Peter M, if a 'robust' reason for the belief that (conventional) quantum theory is 'inevitable' turns out to be an infinite dimension Hilbert space, it predicts its own death -- because then the problem will have reverted to an analytical solution." -Tom

I've said that I think that the best interpretation of quantum mechanics is that wave-functions really exist as a manifestation of spirit. If wave-functions can be higher dimensional objects inside of a Hilbert space than that means that wave-functions can be higher dimensional objects. That works for me. What's wrong with that?

Jason, what one means by "function" is that operation which transforms a set from one value into another. So there is a set of coordinate points describing dimension -- like the 6 points of 3 dimension discrete space and the 10 non-redundant points of 4 dimension continuous spacetime -- making the 16 points of the Minkowski space matrix which includes the redundant set. A continuous wave function in 4 dimensions accounts for the discretely measured result in 3 dimensions, evolving in time.

As even Einstein averred, there is nothing to prevent the extension of physical reality to higher dimensions than 4, " ... so long as there are good physical reasons to do so." That's what quantum field theory and its extradimensional extension, supersymmetric string theory, is all about.

The wave function of conventional quantum theory is a mathematical, probabilistic, function. Not physically real.

The continuous functions of classical physics assume the 4 dimension limit, such that all measurement results are described within that matrix as physically real results (Einstein ~ "All physics is local."). The probabilistic function of quantum mechanics assumes the 3 dimension limit, in which the classical observation is dependent on at least one result orthogonal to the observer -- therefore, for every local physically real measure, there is a "nonlocal" result that isn't real, and continuous time evolution drops out of the equations in favor of the state vector evolution.

So it doesn't matter whether one chooses a continuous model or a probabilistic model, the wave function cannot be physically real if the upper limit of all measurement functions is 4 dimensions.

To ask whether the wave function is physically real in dimensions > 4, however, still begs the question of locality; i.e., because a local observer is always positioned at the origin, or singularity -- therefore, only if the measure space is simply connected can we guarantee that all measurement results are local and the function is continuous. This is because the probabilistic functions of an n-dimension Hilbert space are all discrete rolls of the dice that beg a nonlocal result for every roll regardless of the dimensionality of the space, and the wave function collapses -- converges on -- the local result. On the other hand, a continuous wave function in any number of dimensions does not collapse, and so we get the quantum interpretation of Hugh Everett III -- wherein classical probability (event bifurcations) predicts an infinite set of "verses" independent of our own. This saves quantum theory from having to abandon the infinite-dimension Hilbert space formalism, in order to explain why all our results are local (classical) yet discontinuous with the classical measurement schema. It makes the quantum solution equal to the analytical solution; boundary conditions are randomly generated by event bifurcation, yet not continuous with the spacetime of our measure space.

If you want your ghosts to be both local and real, you should prefer the continuous functions of classical physics, in which all fields of the measure space affect, and are affected by, the states of all other fields -- continuously. This is what general relativity teaches us. Unfortunately, general relativity only applies "up to diffeomorphism," because boundary conditions for continuous physical functions have to be arbitrarily assigned. Therefore, one cannot be sure of a point of origin that satisfies locality because every origin satisfies locality -- there is no privileged observer frame, no dependence on coordinate geometry.

A model of locally real ghostly phenomena, therefore, is not differentiable from any other physics, i.e., phenomena that we can measure and for which we can deterministically record a position and describe an effect. So "ghostly action at a distance" is ruled out, meaning that no field is discretely disconnected from the simply connected classical field influences.

Conventional quantum theory rules out any classically real -- that is, local -- effects from ghosts, meaning disembodied spirits with causal abilities. What the conventional theory does allow, though, is far more problematic than interfering spirits; "action at a distance" avers that disconnected fields assert causal influence on local phenomena in a much more mystical way than can be imagined by the existence of ghosts.

Best,

Tom

Tom, excellent post!

Perhaps your most concisely worded explanation with great clarity, thank-you.

Would you elaborate a bit on how the two extra non-redundant points are obtained in 4 dimensions, to create 10 rather than 8 points? Thanks again. jrc

Tom,

Ghosts have been observed by multiple witnesses. They have attacked and made people sick, they have knocked people down, they have scratched and bitten people, they have appeared as an apparition, they have been caught on video, and they have proven there existence beyond explanations of "tricks of light". I don't think it's in our best interest to try to analytically understand ghosts until we have some data. If it were up to me, I would treat ghosts as a form of intelligence, and then build equipment that might attract ghosts. As silly as this sounds, I would build "ghost toys", toys that ghosts can play with. I want to treat ghosts as a virtual photon disturbance with an intelligence. If the ghosts exist as a virtual photon disturbance, then we should be able to build equipment that is sensitive to virtual photons. In other words, ghosts can create electric and magnetic fields. If they exist, then I want to invite them in and give them a chance to play with the equipment. The result will be that we will have evidence that the equipment is being acted upon by an invisible intelligence that can manifest electric and magnetic fields.

jrc,

Does your model contribute to FT in QM? As long as you didn't provide a paper with illustrations and equations, I cannot grasp your idea.

While off-topic, I would like to ask you what you meant with "... the point to be made is that ANY model that provides the mechanics which allows velocity to be measured from the waveform itself rather than an observer position can explain the constancy of light velocity and the null result of Michelson-Morely."

Incidentally, you are certainly aware that Michelson's 1881 Potsdam experiment was merely improved together with Morley in 1887 after essential but misleading criticism in Paris and by Lorentz. Weren't Michelson's discussions with Thomson more stimulating than Morley's technical support?

Eckard