Essay Abstract

This essay will be an analysis of a few of Khatchig's theories as they are set out in "Digital Physics", an independent movie generated outside the formal system of Hollywood. Although Khatchig is merely a character in a movie, I will assume he exists in some platonic sense for the sake of this essay. Even though this foundational assumption may not be self-evident or true, it will allow me to effectively generate quotes that were Dedekind cut from scenes that don't exist. I expect the reader will observe nothing irrational about this operation which can be used to achieve completeness of the real "Digital Physics" story.

Author Bio

Jonathan Khanlian has a bachelor's degree in mathematics and is a Fellow of the Society of Actuaries. He has a love for soccer, science, music, open-minded discussions, and film. "Digital Physics" is his first feature film. For more information on the movie, which will hopefully play at a film festival or university near you, please check out www.DigitalPhysicsMovie.com.

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Hi Derek,

I enjoyed your essay. You wrote:

"However, it is worth pointing out that, for example, calculus and a large part of differential equations -still among the physicist's most important tools-were designed precisely for physical applications."

I agree, but do you think that achieving an infinite is actually possible in the physical world? Would potential infinities be a more logical concept for physicists to employ? Or are you fine with physics only very closely approximating the real world?

"Moreover, as `quantum mathematicians' we would presumably not prove theorems according to the familiar

rules of logic, which are deeply tied to set theory, but according to rules of quantum logic which reflect the fuzzy, indistinct nature of propositions about fundamentally quantum mechanical systems."

This is idea I was trying to get at in my question #4 which asks, "If quantum mechanics is a world where things can be both "yes" and "no" at the same time, should experimental results be analyzed with Zen Koans instead of logical inferences?"

I also like you questions regarding the choices of mathematical foundations, which I think is well... foundational.

Also, your talk of sub-objects and quotients of a set make me think that you might like to weigh in on a question I asked (#3): "Is there an analogy between the following relationships: a "class" vs. a "set" and "true" vs. "provable"?"

Please check out my Digital Physics movie essay if you have a chance.

Thanks,

Jon

Thanks Ed. I appreciate the response! I responded to your essay on your page. To answer your question, the movie will be released online eventually, but hopefully it will play publicly at some film festivals first. Please sign up for the email distribution on the film's website if you are interested in being kept up to date on its release. Thanks again!

Dear Jonathan,

Your entry is certainly one of the most fun! I looked at the trailer of your movie and I love how (at least based on the limited impression I got) it is so unabashedly nerdy. However, it does raise a question in my mind about how you convinced yourself to make it, given that apparently you have an actuarial background. I would have thought that would have dissuaded you due to the inherent risks of such an undertaking. Very unfortunately, not too many people have ever bothered to think about the kinds of abstract things that the movie seems to be about.

Actually, I am really curious, since your educational background was not in film, how did you pick up the skills to make this? I mean not just the screenwriting, artistic conception and directing skills, but also that of bringing so many people together (The list of cast and crew seems rather large for an Indy movie), securing funding and generally taking an idea all the way to the finished product?

I will be perfectly honest, there is a little bit of envy in me. When I was a kid, I did have a dream of being a movie director. I imagined that I would also write my own screenplay and my own music. Well, even though I went a circuitous route from pharmacy to physics/philosophy/mathematics, at least the music part has stayed with me.

I am sorry that your movie did not get the reception you had hoped for. I think taking the movie to the community that is bound to appreciate it most is a great idea. Hopefully this includes silicon valley or thereabouts. Come to think of it, are there any "Nerdy" film festivals? Given the success of the Big Bang theory I would think that if there isn't there might be niche for it.

Anyway, I wish you the best of success and hope that you continue to pursue your dreams.

Best,

Armin

    One more thought that just occurred to me. When the movie Particle Fever screened at the local arts cinema here, the physics department at U of M gave a whole bunch of vouchers to the students for a free screening.

    It might be far-fetched, but perhaps securing sponsorship by a physics/mathematics related organization that would be willing to sponsor vouchers at some large universities might be another way to increase the audience specifically from this community.

    Armin

      Hi Armin,

      I really appreciate your response! My girlfriend described it as "kind and heartwarming" which I totally agree with. Thanks for signing up for the movie's email list as well. It has been difficult to drum up support for "Digital Physics", given its uniqueness, so your enthusiasm and interest in the movie is really appreciated.

      So you want to know why an actuary, someone who should know something about (difficult) odds, embarked on the daunting project of making a feature film? It's actually a simple answer: I went into it with an unrealistic model of expectations... a naïve model... a model that underestimated the work involved... a model based on one scenario where everything goes according to plan and you don't give yourself a heart attack;) But seriously, filmmaking is a lot more accessible these days and so is the education around it, so if you're interested in getting into the art form, don't over think it... just dive into the learning and creating process... make something, critique it, get feedback, and then do it again. You already have the music side covered, and audio is more than half of the film experience. I recommend playing around with Adobe After Effects. I bet you could make some great pieces of visual art to compliment your piano playing. If you can do that, you're a filmmaker. End of story. QED. Worry about financing, locations, actors, scripts, etc. at a later date.

      Now on to the science...

      I checked out your youtube presentation on a novel approach for making sense of the Copenhagen Interpretation. (I also enjoyed your "sunset landscape" piano piece. I pictured George Seurat's "Sunday Afternoon..." but with slightly warmer sunset tones.) Your talk about how the surface to volume ratios of smaller objects of the same shape are greater and therefore more 2-D reminded me of how properties of a substance can change when they are in small quantities due to the fact that the substance has a higher proportion of its molecules on its surface, and therefore a higher proportion are interacting with the substance's surrounding environment, not just with the molecules/atoms on the "interior" of the substance... whatever that word means to a Flantlander. (Actually, you talked about objects of the same "shape" in your discussion when discussing surface to volume ratios, but I think that term is a little vague if we're dealing with a discrete atomic model. I think trying to derive a more precise notion of "shape" in your discrete atomic model might even be insightful and help build out your theory a little more.) So some of the properties of the substance do not seem to be self-contained within the molecules themselves, but are properties that should be attributed to the interactive relationship between the substance and its environment. Could this stripping away of properties attributed to "things" be extended? Could more properties thought to be the properties of particles/matter really be looked at as properties that arise from interactive relationships? Could a non-physical, informational reality give rise to all the properties that we attribute to a physical world of particles? Maybe this viewpoint makes the "shut up and compute" reality of QM more intuitive. Maybe the world is purely mathematical/informational/formulaic/non-physical at its core. Information has no purpose/meaning/existence unless it is describing relationships... which I think is consistent with the viewpoint we extract from QM experiments. I think this also relates to the conversation I was having with Luca on the subjective nature of experiencing color.

      I also liked your distinction between "potential" and "actual" in your quantum theory. It reminds me of my Aristotelian preference for potential infinite instead of actual infinite, but I will not go into anything on that matter here due to time constraints; I have to get to your actual FQXi essay at some point:)

      Thanks again for your interest and support of "Digital Physics". Spread the word!

      Jon

      Hi Armin,

      I am hoping a positive response to this essay and interest in the movie will help me get some support from the scientific and festival communities. Unlike "Particle Fever" (and the standard model of physics), "Digital Physics" (the movie and the theories) doesn't have quite the same established support in the scientific community, so your interest in the movie, as you so generously expressed here, is very critical to the film's success and is much appreciated. The more support I can drum up here, the easier it will be to get science organizations (including FQXi), universities, and film festivals to support movie screenings. Feel free to pass the movie trailer along and encourage others to read my essay and comment on it. Independent films, especially ones dealing with foundational science questions, need all the support they can get! :)

      I hope the FQXi community support will come through!

      Dear Jon,

      Thank you for your response, as a matter of fact, I had been playing around a little with After Effects to see if I could create music videos consisting entirely of animated images appropriate to the music. My initial attempts proved to consume more time than I had available, so I had to set it on the back-burner.(I suspect the problem was fundamentally that my vision was too far beyond my ability). After this semester is over, I might just try again.

      Concerning the Vaxjo talk, One of the few things I would change if I gave the talk today would be to cut out the part about the surface to volume ratio. Of course it is correct that smaller things have in general more surface to volume, and in that sense can be considered "more" two-dimensional, but that argument does not get me to the limit of infinite surface area to volume. In fact, I understood only later how to approach the limit, and it is not in terms of size but speed. Specifically, the limit at which v=c, is, in my view, also the limit in which spacetime itself vanishes. I believe that, at bottom, this is the reason why spacetime observers cannot transform to lightlike frames. If you are more interested in this aspect, there is a paper I have written but have not promoted much because in the absence of the context of my ideas in quantum mechanics it might seem too crazy, but here it is:

      http://vixra.org/abs/1306.0076

      A major problem with this view is that it requires that lightcones be topological objects whereas at present, most researchers, to the extent that they think about the topology of spacetime at all, consider it to be Euclidean (in which light cones have no topological significance). I believe that this current view is in error, and that the topology of spacetime is such that lightcones are in fact topological submanifolds. Proving this is a whole other ball-game, and, given how much I already have on my plate, probably not something I will get to attempt in the near future. But this is one of the theoretical implications of my idea.

      As for the distinction between potentiality and actuality, yes, during the earlier stages I was in fact considering using Aristotle's distinctions. Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, his distinctions do not have the right relationship to each other to be used in standard modal logic. Of course, one could just build up a different modal logic based on those distinctions, but the standard one has the advantage that all the model theory and semantics has already been worked out. I would rather not try to re-invent the wheel, if at all possible.

      Finally, concerning the actual and potential infinities, while I am not constructing this framework for that purpose, I can imagine that an ultrafinitist might find ZFCD attractive because they can then put omega and all sets larger than it in the outer domain.

      Best wishes,

      Armin

      Hi Jon,

      I like your questions and thought for a while of how one could measure when "Pi-Time" would be. But while I was thinking Pi-Time has past. If knowbody has measured it, has it existed?

      Anyhow I also would like to ask a question. Let's have a set with 2 elements and the permutation group as the symmetry group of the set. How can I distinguish this two elements?

      Best wishes

      Luca

        Hi Luca,

        I am a little confused (and also not too familiar). Aren't symmetry groups suppose to make the object under transformation invariant, and therefore sort of indistinguishable. Please explain more; I want to try to understand this question. I feel like it is related to our discussion about color... like how a rotation of of a person's color wheel may not be discernible by another person.

        Thanks,

        Jon

        Hi Jonathan,

        If you have not seen my essay, well here it is. Please check it out I think this is what you've been looking for. I will explain more once you get the basic idea.

        Nice movie, looks like a romantic comedy, but I don't think my wife would like it, the character looks too much like me!

        Essay

        Thanks and good luck.

          It looks like a "romantic comedy"?!?! Nnnooooooo... Well, that wasn't what I was going for, but I won't hold it against you:) I will check out your essay and try to comment on it sometime soon. Any thoughts on the mathematical aspects of my essay?

          Thanks,

          Jon

          I meant it "looks" like, not literally.

          Since your essay had an unusual format I thought maybe it is better to wait until you read mine before I compare my idea to yours(also answering your questions). However, I did say that you seem to be saying similar things to what I have shown, mainly the discrete vs continuous. Both can be done, but it seems spin and gravity are both tied to discrete and give better results.

          Hi Jon,

          Thanks for the lovely work! Is there a thinker anywhere that hasn't pondered something close to one of your questions? With some (alas), being less clever, moved on to higher orders?

          1. We can put question C) to bed: I'm its living proof; eg, degree-thesis handed to Professor as his clock (slowed by the speed of my approach for the prior 90 minutes) chimed the deadline.

          2. You might like this.

          The continuum of the reals refuted

          Abstract: A refutation of the claim that the system of real numbers has the property that between any two of them, no matter how close, there lies a third.

          Let 1.99 be the real precedent to 2, where bolding indicates unlimited repetition.

          Example: 1.99 = 1.999 = 1.9999 = etc. (A)

          Thus, for example:

          1.99+0.01 = 1.999+0.001 = 1.9999+0.0001 = etc. = 2. (B)

          Question: What is the intervening real?

          As Arnie says, "I'll be back!"

          With my thanks again, and best regards; Gordon Watson: Essay Forum. Essay Only.

          Hi Jon,

          Thanks for the lovely work! Is there a thinker anywhere that hasn't pondered something close to one of your questions? With some (alas), being less clever, moved on to higher orders?

          1. We can put question C) to bed: I'm its living proof; eg, degree-thesis handed to Professor as his clock (slowed by the speed of my approach for the prior 90 minutes) chimed the deadline.

          2. You might like this.

          The continuum of the reals refuted v.2

          Abstract: A refutation of the claim that the system of real numbers has the property that between any two of them, no matter how close, there lies a third.

          Let 1.99 be a real precedent to 2, where bolding indicates unlimited repetition.

          Example: 1.99 = 1.999 = 1.9999 = etc. (A)

          So: 1.99+0.01 = 1.999+0.001 = 1.9999+0.0001= etc. = 2. (B)

          Question: What is an intervening real?

          As Arnie says, "I'll be back!"

          With my thanks again, and best regards; Gordon Watson: Essay Forum. Essay Only.

            Jon: In relation to some of your questions and issues that appeal to me, I'm very much stimulated (and educated) by related discussions on Akinbo Ojo's Essay and Forum.

            Here's hoping he's a local realist like me! Regards; Gordon

            RE BELL AND LEGGET INEQUALITIES

            JON, a quote from your essay: "So how do physicists know that there isn't some underlying pseudorandom process that could reproduce the results of quantum mechanics in a classical, deterministic way? Even if Bell's Inequality rules out local hidden variables, this doesn't preclude determinism in general."

            [Note: "Digital Physics" takes place sometime in the late 1980s before Leggett's inequality was discussed, or I am sure Khatchig would have mentioned that in his Dedekind cut quote."

            Jon, since QM breaches both inequalities, you're welcome to have a look at my essay and critique it. There you'll see an interesting mix of "randomness and determinism" (some might say "a pseudorandom" process) emerging from fairly conventional (classical probability) theory.

            And though not quite in a "classical deterministic way":* enough to rule in "local hidden variables".

            * Recalling Bohr's insight, it cannot be "classical" in QM: In QM, "the result of a 'measurement' does not in general reveal some preexisting property of the 'system', but is a product of both 'system' and 'apparatus'," Bell (2004:xi- xii).

            With best regards from your local local-realist;

            Gordon Watson: Essay Forum. Essay Only.

              Jon,

              The movie and essay are both stimulating and good contributions to this forum, and I hope the community shows strong support for it. Thanks for putting all the work into it. I liked how this takes place in the 80s in a setting where it was difficult to obtain the computer resources for his quest. It's a good reminder to us today to take advantage of the computing resources we have. Also, one of the ideas in the movie where he looks for patterns to discern physical concepts reminds me of some random walk research I did a number of years ago. To present these inspiring ideas in a dramatic environment where it takes itself seriously and yet to the point where we can have fun with it, strikes a delicate balance - but you achieved it. That is a form of brilliance too. I rate this highly, and hope to see more good things come of it - Thanks again, Steve

                Dear Jon,

                Thanks for this thought provoking piece. I agree with your statement, "... the use of mathematics based on infinite precision "real" numbers by physicists, are both born out of a desire to overcome a logical impediment and reach a desired goal. Both are created for convenience sake... In the case of physicists using continuous mathematics, this technique enables the power of the infinite to be harnessed in order to create elegant closes-formed analytic solutions. Both serve a purpose but NEITHER MAY BE LOGICAL"

                An example of such illogicality is the definition of the infinitesimal in calculus, that dx can be both equal to and unequal to zero, i.e. dx = 0 and dx тЙа 0 are both correct.

                I see motion in the trailer of your movie, Khatchig may have one or two things to contemplate about "digital motion after reading my essay.

                Regards,

                Akinbo

                  Dear Mr. Khanlian,

                  I thought that your colorful essay was exceptionally entertaining and I do hope that your movie is seen as often as the film THE THEORY OF EVERYTHING, although, alas, perhaps by fewer discerning people.

                  Warm Regards,

                  Joe Fisher