Are Mathematical Laws Truly Mindless? by Paul N Butler

Satyavarapu Gupta

Dear Paul,

What ever you said, I was trying read again,

Some more comments please...

1. In Dynamic universe model the present state is always depends past state, the the time between these two states (time step) is variable and you can fix it according to your needs

2. you will be the first author and I will be second author....

etc....

Hoping this will be ok for you...

Best

=snp

Paul Butler

The following is a copy of comments made by Satavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta on his contest page to me. They include the information in the three comments above plus some additional material, so I am answering them both on his page and also here. I am copying them here to have a complete record of all comments having to do with this contest in one place:

Author Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta replied on Nov. 3, 2017 @ 07:38 GMT

Dear Paul,

I will post my replies in parts, and post as and when I finish

Your words...................

Dear Satyavarapu,

Your comment of May 9

1. It is good that you place the true knowledge and understanding of the universe as more important than money.

Reply...............

Thank you sir,

Your words..................

This can, of course, be very difficult if you don't have enough money to pay for necessary living expenses. For that reason I can have compassion on those who must make the decision as to whether to give in to the currently accepted scientific understandings in order to be accepted by the scientific establishment and get adequate money to live and resources to do their research, etc. or to work elsewhere as you did in the steel plant, etc. and not have access to research facilities to do desired research, but be able to stay true to one's understandings even when they do not agree with established scientific beliefs.

Reply...............

Yes It was a difficult life for me all the way in my life,

Your words..................

The real problem is not so much in those who are weak and give in, but in a scientific establishment that is structured in such a way as to require such behavior of those who work in the field. I don't mind challenges to the concepts that I am giving out to others, as long as they come from an honest desire to understand the concepts and determine if they are true and not just to try to undermine their acceptance by others in order to continue to propagate false beliefs in their place.

Reply...............

Yes you are correct,

Your words..................

Since I am just giving out the basic concepts and it is up to others to develop them with math models, etc. as I mentioned in my last comment to you, I can only give supportive information up to a point. Most of the information that I am giving is in accordance with existing observational data.

Reply...............

Yes It should be

Your words..................

It mainly gives explanations of that data at a lower and more detailed level than man's current science level can do. The causes of such things as the specific multiple outcomes from a given interaction between two matter particles that are possible and the specific probability of each occurring can be explained in a straight forward way in terms of the motions involved and their specific positioning or relative phasing at the point of interaction, etc.

Reply...............

Yes

Your words..................

It is not necessary to find the actual start of a gravity field to observe the effect that I mentioned of an increase in energy as one travels toward a large mass and an equal decrease as one travels away from the field. You can pick any convenient distance from the large gravity field's center of gravity and record the test object's energy level at that point. You then record it again at its closest point to the center of gravity that it arrives at during its approach. Next you let it travel a distance in its travel away from the center of gravity that is equal to the distance that it traveled from your original chosen starting point distance from the center of gravity to the closest point in its travel and then record its energy at that point. The recorded data should show that the object has the same amount of energy at both the beginning and ending points and a greater amount of energy at the closest point. You could then logically extend the beginning and ending points out to any equal distance and expect that they will remain equal in energy.

Reply...............

Yes , ok,

Your words..................

Of course, it would be wise to check it at several different equal distances from the closest point to the center of gravity to be sure that it checks out.

Reply...............

Why equal distances?

Your words..................

If the objects path brings it close enough to any other large gravity force to produce a measurable effect on the object, then that effect would also need to be factored in to the measured results, of course. Although the UGF would have some effects on the experiment, if the large gravity field object was chosen, such that there were no other large gravity objects within several light years, the UGF effect would likely be too small to measure, since they decrease by the square of the distance.

Reply...............

But there will be some effect, don't neglect here it self, calculate and neglect...

Your words..................

The starting and ending points of the experiment could be chosen close enough to the center of gravity of the large gravity object, so that the field strength of the gravity field would be strong enough throughout the distance traveled during the experiment to overpower any weak gravity effect from far away UGF objects. If you are looking for absolute distances, however, it depends on the age of the large gravity object and the speed of propagation of the gravity field. As an example, if a star like the sun is about four and one half billion years old and if the gravity field propagates or travels at the speed of light, then the beginning or ending of the field would be about four and one half billion light years from the center of the star. This would, of course, have to be adjusted to account for the motion of the star as a whole during the four and one half billion years. There would be other variables, but that would be a simplified example with enough detail to make it clear that each object's gravity field only extends so far. It shows something that most people never consider. This means that if you look at a galaxy that is eight billion light years away, you cannot see any stars in it that are less than eight billion years old because the light from them could not have reached the earth yet. This means that if you wanted to look for other stars that came into being four and one half billion years ago, you could only find them in galaxies that are four and one half billion light years away or closer. If you look at the galaxy that is eight billion light years away, you might see stars that appear to be only four and one half billion years old, but since it took eight billion years for that light to reach us, the actual current age of the star would be twelve and one half billion years, so it very well might have burned out by now.

I generally don't give math equations because generally I find man's math to be too vague in its presentation to be easily understandable by most people, especially advanced math. You will have to generate the math yourself if you can't understand the information that I am giving in English language form. I believe I gave it clear enough that its understanding should be obvious.

Reply...............

Here you are confusing...

Your words..................

You are right that the gravity field of any object that is old enough and close enough to have reached the path of the test object would have some effect on the test. The farther away the object is and the smaller that its gravity field is the less would be the effect that it would have on the test. This means that most objects even those with large gravity fields that are billions of light years away would not likely measurably affect the test results because their gravity fields would be too dissipated by their great distances and small objects with small gravity fields would have to be much closer to cause measurable effects on the test results. You are right that the moon even though its gravity field is small can affect the tides on earth, but at the same time the other planets only have very small effects on the tides on earth even though their masses are much greater than he moon's. This shows how much distance can affect the ability of a given gravity field to make measurable effects.

Reply...............

Yes

Your words..................

Although most of the hydrogen in the universe would have been created very early in the formation of the universe, the instabilities in the density of the hydrogen that would allow stars to ultimately form and the galaxies that would then form from the stars, etc. would develop over a very long time.

Reply...............

No not at the beginning, it is being created continually.... It will be crazy to think all Hydrogen created at the beginning... Then what happens to Hydrogen being produced

Your words..................

This means that the continual increase in the formation of new stars and galaxies will go on for a very long time as new instabilities gradually form until a saturation point is achieved where most of the hydrogen is used up in the universe. The formation of new galaxies will then continually decrease in number per unit of time until there is no longer enough free hydrogen left to generate any more new galaxies. Since a large portion of the universe still does not contain galaxies, the process of formation of new stars and galaxies will still go on for a very long time before all of the hydrogen is used up.

Reply...............

There is no evidence that there is large amount of Hydrogen is there in the Universe

Thank you once again

Best

=snp

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Author Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta wrote on Nov. 3, 2017 @ 01:17 GMT

Dear Paul,

Thank you for your interest in my work and you took time to reply even after 10 months....

I will link and go thro' your posts and reply you ASAP,

Thank you once again,

Best

=snp

Author Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta wrote on Nov. 3, 2017 @ 07:44 GMT

Dear Paul,

If you are interested in getting equations for your theory, you may directly tell me what is your offer of money..... to my mail Id or here

Mean while I will reply all your quarries one by one ,in my own way...

Best

Author Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta wrote on Nov. 3, 2017 @ 07:52 GMT

Dear Paul,

Please discuss your theory in full, instead saying i discussed there or here... It will be confusing to co-relate ...

Best

=snp

Author Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta wrote on Nov. 5, 2017 @ 05:18 GMT

Dear Paul,

What ever you said, I was trying read again,

Some more comments please...

1. In Dynamic universe model the present state is always depends past state, the the time between these two states (time step) is variable and you can fix it according to your needs

2. you will be the first author and I will be second author....

etc....

Hoping this will be ok for you...

Best

=snp

Paul Butler

Dear Satyavarapu,

Your first comment of Nov. 3

1. You are welcome.

I can understand how that can work. When I was young we didn't always have enough good food to eat resulting in bloating, etc. and in some winters we did without heating because we couldn't afford to pay the electric bill, etc., but thanks be to God we are both still here. In retirement we have enough to live off of, but I don't get enough to use for much research, etc. It is interesting to contemplate how much more might have been accomplished with a complete life's work in the field. That is one of the problems of the secret science system in that it only gets useful productive output from a small proportion of all of those who could add valuable new scientific input. When you couple that with the additional limiting of valuable input from all of those who don't have the opportunity to get the accepted educational degree requirements in the open scientific community, the cumulative result is a very slow progression in scientific development in comparison to what would be expected in a completely open scientific community with free expression and evaluation of all expressed concepts.

It is good that we agree on that.

I am glad that you agree here also.

Good. Not only does this get around much of the vague quantum gibberish, it also explains what such things as fields are made of and allows a more detailed understanding of how they work.

Good.

If the photon starts at point A and travels to its closest point toward the object at point B and then travels the same distance away from the object that it traveled toward it to point C and energy measurements are taken at all three points, then, if the amount of increase in energy in the photon per unit of distance when it is traveling toward the large gravity object is equal to the amount of decrease in energy in the photon per unit of distance when the photon is traveling away from the large gravity object (A=C), then if you measure equal distances in both directions the readings will be the same value when you measure at the beginning of the travel toward the object (A) and measure again after it travels first a given distance toward the object (B) which would increase the photon's energy and then travels an equal distance away from it (C) again so that it would be back at the same distance from the large gravity object that it was at just before it began its measured movement toward the object. On the other hand if the Photon's energy is upshifted during its approach toward the large gravity object, but is not down shifted as much when it travels away from the object, then the third reading would be greater by the amount of the difference. The reading at the closest point in its travel toward the object (B) should be the maximum up shifting value. If it is equal to the reading at the end measurement in its travel away from the object (C), then there would be no down shifting. If it equal to the first reading that was taken before it began to travel the measured distance toward the object, then there would be no upshifting, etc. If B is greater than A and B is greater than C and C is greater than A, then there would be some upshifting followed by a smaller amount of down shifting, etc. By using equal distances in both directions you would not need to compensate for the difference in the increase or decrease in energy in the photon per unit of distance traveled when comparing measurements.

You could synchronize several gravity sensors, so that they would take simultaneous readings and send them to a central display and position them all around the large gravity object in all directions all at the same distance from it to check for external UGF gravity effects. Since the display point would not likely be equal distant from all of the sensors, each reading should send a reading number along with the reading data so that the display would display all readings with the same reading number at the same time even though the difference in distances could cause some readings to be delayed compared to others. You could then adjust for any observable variations in the gravity field due to the UGF.

In the first part I was pointing out that the closer to the center of gravity of the large gravity object that you make the measurements for the upshifting, the greater will be the field strength in the measurements while at the same time the UGF effects will likely remain the same. The result would be that the UGF effects would be a much smaller percentage of the field strength measurements. As an example, if the UGF effects were only one trillionth of the amplitude of the field strength measured, it might be too small to be measured. On the other hand, if the measurements were taken much farther from the center of gravity of the large gravity object, the amplitude of the field strength measured would be much less. At the same time the UGF effects would be about the same. This would make the UGF effects a larger percentage of the total field strength measured, so it would be more likely to materially distort the measurement results. In the second part I was pointing out that the UGF effects at any point in space would not include effects from the whole universe, but only effects from entities that were close enough to that point to allow their gravity field to have expanded to that point since the time of their creation. As an example if a star came into existence four billion years ago, but it is located four and one half billion light years away from the point, it would have no effect on the UGF at that point because its gravity wave would not yet have been able to travel to that point.

Good.

The current range of the number of hydrogen atoms per cubic centimeter given in most of man's papers that I have seen is between .1 and 1000 with the average at 1 atom per cubic centimeter in interstellar space. One such example is given at https://hypertextbook.com/facts/2000/DaWeiCai.shtml. This sounds like a small amount, but considering how large space is, it is a very large amount. It can still form new stars for a long time. So far the only mechanism of production of large numbers of new hydrogen atoms that you have given is by photon upshifting and that is still only a hypothesis with no present observational evidence to back it up that I have seen. The idea that most of the hydrogen was created near the beginning of the creation is only crazy if you believe that the universe always existed as it is now. On the other hand, if it was created, it makes sense that when it was very hot, only sub-energy fields would exist and as it cooled some, energy photons would be created, then as it cooled more matter particles would be created. If the cooling was fast enough, only hydrogen and some helium would be created before it cooled enough to prevent other heavier atoms from being formed. Which concept is crazy depends on whether your photon upshifting actually occurs and if it does whether it occurs at a rapid enough rate to replace the hydrogen atoms that get locked into helium atoms by fusion in stars. At the very least, even if the world came into existence fully formed, there would need to have been enough hydrogen to form stars and to begin the fusion in them to produce the energy photons that would begin the upshifting process. Somehow, there would also need to be enough large gravity objects (large stars, etc.) to do to upshifting to start the process. Of course, you may believe that the universe has always been in existence and had no beginning, but I see no observable evidence to back up that concept either. As an example, if the universe has always existed, it would by now be filled up with all of the helium atoms that would have been made by fusion of all of the hydrogen that would be continuously produced by the photon upshifting.

See the above information about the amount of hydrogen in space.

Your second comment of Nov. 3

You only need to go through any parts of the posts that we still need to work on. The areas where we agree need not be covered again.

Your third comment on Nov. 3

First I am not in a financial position to hire others to work on advancement of the concepts. In addition to that it would not be within the constraints of this test to support it in that way. It is up to man to have an information system structure, such that the concepts will be seen by those necessary to both advance them into practical use and also those who will see its value and will support it financially and with any needed resources, etc. It is man's overall structural ability that is tested. All of these abilities will need to be in place and working properly to gain the best relationship for man. Man's current divided and wasteful scientific structure will not be acceptable at that time. Major changes will have to occur one way or another.

As mentioned above, we only need to cover comments that are not understood or we believe need further work to come to agreement, etc.

Your fourth comment on Nov. 3

You should be able to get most of it that has been given at this time from my previous contest papers on this site. Some new information is given in my new paper also. To give it all to you at once would require a very big comment, which would be too large to go through easily. If you find a problem with or can't understand a part of it as you go through my papers, I will try to go over it with you the best that I can.

Your comment on Nov. 5

1. Yes and as I pointed out, if the gravity field propagates at the speed of light, what any point in space sees as the present state of the UGF at any given time is a combination of various past states of other gravity fields depending on each one's distance from that point. As an example, if a gravity field source is located five light years from the point, that point sees the condition of that gravity source as it was five years ago and not as it currently is at the present time. If that gravity field exploded and dissipated four years ago, the point would not see that change in its UGF reading for another year. I have seen that some have begun to consider that the gravity field might propagate at a speed faster than the speed of light, but even if their estimates are correct it is still slow enough that the delay effect would be great for great distances.

2. I guess we would first have to determine the details of what the paper would be about. It would be ok with me if we can write about something that we can both understand and agree upon.

Sincerely,

Paul

Satyavarapu Gupta

Thank you Paul,

We will start discussing now ASAP, let me read fully....

by the way, where did you work? What is your address and phone number, do you have a web page ....?

Mean while I will read your post and discuss

Best,

=snp

Satyavarapu Gupta

Dear Paul,

If you can not give your details, how can we publish a paper? We have to give the real details in the paper. Shall I abandon the project?

Best

=snp

Paul Butler

Dear Satyavarapu,

Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I was working on my new paper and other things. Please give me your email address and I will email my information to you.

Sincerely,

Paul

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