The key requirements that allow goal oriented structures to develop in the Universe by Declan Andrew Traill

Declan,

You misunderstand the thermodynamic meaning of both entropy and equilibrium. It might as well be argued that no equilibrium ever truly exists and therefore thermodynamics is meaningless. Nonetheless, thermodynamic predictions are accurate when applied correctly.

Best Regards,

Gary Simpson

Gary,

But entropy "is a measure of the number of microscopic configurations that a thermodynamic system can have" (wiki page on Entropy). In a galaxy comprised primarily of stars/hot gas/plasma there is high entropy due to the fast moving, essentially random motions of the particles; even though on a large scale there appears to be an organized structure.

Regards,

Declan

Dear Declan Andrew Traill,

you mentioned in 2 nd paragraph............ but only the structures that can persist in their environment will survive ..........

Why you require structures, how structures are formed, is it something like radiation dominated era you are talking about...?

But anyway,

When stars are there , there are cold places also exist as we see....

You mentioned energy to matter conversion as very important........... please check Dynamic Universe model's paper in viXra on this subject, where a mechanism was shown to convert energy to matter.

Dear Declan Andrew Traill,

you mentioned in 2 nd paragraph............ but only the structures that can persist in their environment will survive ..........

Why you require structures, how structures are formed, is it something like radiation dominated era you are talking about...?

But anyway,

When stars are there , there are cold places also exist as we see....

You mentioned energy to matter conversion as very important........... please check Dynamic Universe model's paper in viXra on this subject, where a mechanism was shown to convert energy to matter.

Sorry I did not notice I was logged out, I think FQXi computer system logs out automatically after sometime. That's why I repeated my post with the name visible...

Dear Mr. Traill,

Please excuse me for I do not wish to be too critical of your fine essay.

Only nature could produce a reality so simple, a single cell amoeba could deal with it.

One real visible Universe must have only one reality. Simple natural reality has nothing to do with any abstract complex musings about imaginary invisible "A number of key principles that allow goal-oriented systems to develop in the Universe can be identified."

The real Universe must consist only of one unified visible infinite physical surface occurring in one infinite dimension, that am always illuminated by infinite non-surface light.

A more detailed explanation of natural reality can be found in my essay, SCORE ONE FOR SIMPLICITY. I do hope that you will read my essay and comment on its merit.

Joe Fisher, Realist

Dear Mr. Traill,

Although all but one of my essays have previously been rejected without being sent out for Peer Revue by the editors of reputable science journals, my latest essay, THE SIMPLEST UNIVERSE was sent out for Peer Review by the editor of the Indian Institute of Science Journal of Current Science on December 20, 2016.

Joe Fisher, Realist

Your post on my paper's page:

...And so who made God?

God is not a solution, only another question...

Declan T

Dear Declan,

That is a good question, but it does not mean that God is not the solution as to how the universe and life were created. It would just be the next logical question to ask once you came to the conclusion that he did create them. We know now that the universe did not always exist, but had a beginning, so if God created them it would tell us that he at least was in existence before the creation of them in order to have created them. According to man's current estimate of the beginning time of the creation, he would have to be older than 13.8 billion years. Given that age it would not be too great a stretch to believe that he has always existed. After all, it was not that long ago that scientists thought the universe had always existed, so if that could be believed by man why not believe that God who created it always existed? Of course, we can only know for sure, if he has told us in one way or another. In the Christian Old Testament at Isaiah 57, 15, God says that he inhabits eternity. In The New Testament at I Timothy 1, 17 God is said to be eternal and immortal. Of course these things would only be evidence to you if you believe that God is the source of these scriptures. To a great extent I was convinced that he is, by the information that is contained in them about the structure of the world that we can observe, which goes beyond what man currently understands. Of course, it also contains information about parts of the creation that we can't presently observe, such as the heavens and the hidden framework behind our world that generates the outputs that make up the world that we see and are parts of, etc. As I looked deeper into the scriptures, I found that it contains much information about many other things also that explains how things in the world work, etc. There are many things in the structure of the world that are images of things pertaining to God also. I hope that helps you.

I looked at your paper and found that although it is very short, it is one of the better ones that I have seen in this contest so far.

Your zeroth requirement is explained in my paper. It also explains how the wave nature of energy photons works.

There are multitudes of energy sources present in the universe.

What is a survivable environment depends on what it is that is to survive in it. As an example, this planet is currently survivable to living creatures that have a limited life time of generally less than 120 years and have built in repair mechanisms to repair the damages caused by entropy interactions, but if you were to consider whether it is survivable to parts of a living creature over very long periods of time, such as billions of years while all of the necessary parts were formed one at a time by chance until they were all formed and then would somehow provide an environment, such that all those parts could somehow come together and form the first living creature, it would not have been stable enough at any given location to allow that to happen because entropy interactions would surely destroy the first parts long before the last ones would be made. In nature the most survivable structures are those that are the closest to the motion amplitude equilibrium point. These are the structures that are created by the one way chemical reactions or are the elements that are in the middle atomic weight range, etc. Building complex molecular structures is like stacking many bricks on top of one another. It does not take much to make them fall and, thus release all of the potential energy that was stored in them. On the other hand if you lay all those bricks side by side flat on the ground they can't fall from there, so that structure is very stable and is, therefore, much more survivable than the other one. If survivability is the important driver then complex structures would never form.

The natural world does not contain the intelligence to be able to favour anything. It operates in accordance with its built in structural information, which generally operates in only the direction that works toward the averaging of internal motions in all entities involved and the equal dispersion of all entities in space except where controlled by gravity. It is true that this can be modified if external energy is added. Although the addition of external energy can make it possible to make chemical reactions occur in the opposite direction, there is no evidence that the self-assembly of complex structures such as the molecular protein machines, RNA molecules, and DNA molecules, etc. that are needed to operate inside of the cells of living creatures have ever occurred naturally in nature. The problem is not just to get amino acids to join together to make a protein. A certain type of protein that a living cell needs to function contains a chain of amino acids that can be 300 or even as much as 1400 amino acids long. There are about 80 amino acids generally found in nature. Each one comes in a left handed and a right handed variety for a total of 160 possibilities that could be joined together to make a protein. Only about 20 of those are used in living creatures. Each position in the protein chain must contain a specific amino acid type of the twenty. You should begin to see the problem of random protein self-assembly. If you start with a simple protein that contains a chain of 100 amino acids, each position in that chain must contain the right amino acid out of the 160 possibilities. If you put the wrong amino acid into any one of its 100 positions the protein is ruined. If you assemble proteins randomly you would have to make an extremely large number of them to have any likelihood of producing the one that you need. Think about the chance of picking out the right numbered card out of a stack of numbered cards that has 1 X 160 ^100 different numbered cards in it. If you could assemble quintillions of them per second you would not come close to producing that one specific protein in 13 billion years and you would need to produce at least 200 specific types of proteins to build the simplest possible living cell. Living cells can make the right proteins as they are needed because they have already been preprogrammed to do so. The right sequence of amino acids for each of the proteins that the living creature uses is recorded into its DNA. When a certain protein is needed a transfer RNA molecule reads the code from the proper storage place in the DNA and transfers it to a protein building machine, which is itself a protein. This machine reads the code from the RNA molecule and picks and positions the proper amino acid into the next position in the new protein molecule. It would then read the next position code and pick the proper amino acid to place in that position of the new protein. This would be repeated 100 times to complete our basic protein. A cell is essentially a very complex completely automated molecular based protein production process control assembly facility. In addition to that it also performs its normal life functions. In addition to all of this many proteins cannot exist long enough outside of the cell to allow a nuclear magnetic resonance image to be taken of them. This would mean that they would all need to be assembled in a very short time and once produced these proteins would have to be assembled into a living cell in a very short time. Living cells are basically an organic computer controlled device that contains stored information that controls its functioning and built on a molecular size scale. Man cannot come close to making such a complex structure. Can you imagine a completely automated car plant that can move around to find all of the basic materials and energy it needs to build cars and can then process all of them into the needed finished materials, such as plastics and metals, etc. into the form that they need to be in and then cut and shape them all into the right parts and then assemble them together to make cars and at the same time it automatically repairs any failures that develop in it and every so often completely builds another car plant from the materials that it gathers as it moves around. When I began to understand the true complexity of the structure of living creatures it became apparent that it would be ridiculous to consider that it could in any way come about from natural random processes. And the example of the car plant came from a comparison to a single celled creature. If you talk about more complex structures like man, the complexity expands more exponentially. Just think of the cell differentiation problem that would start with a single general purpose cell and as cells would divide they would need to slowly differentiate in many stages into all of the different types of cells in the body with each cell in the right place when it is done. All of this would need to be controlled by all of the possible differentiation forms being stored in the DNA in some way. When each cell divides it would need to know its differentiation position in the body and the proper code to pull out of the DNA to use to make the next cell so it would also have its proper differentiation from it. There is no way to get around the fact that it would take an intelligence much more complex than man's to figure out all of these things and then build it, let alone first constructing the universe they are to live in out of combinations of basic motions and building it up to the hierarchical level that would allow the possibility to create the proteins and other complex molecular structures needed to build living creatures.

One of the greatest problems with the concept of evolution is that if you select a DNA error rate and a positive result rate that is quick enough to produce all of the different types of living creatures that have ever lived in the time allowed, (about 13 billion years) starting from just the one first creature, evolution increases exponentially along with the increase in the populations of all of the existing living creatures. This means that today with the tremendously large world population of living creatures we should be seeing a great number of evolutionary changes occurring all around us, but we don't.

Standing wave structures just like all other cyclical motion structures require external structure to generate the interactions that periodically reverse motion direction in all dimensions that participate in the standing wave motion. In my description of the structure of the energy photon I use a standing wave motion that oscillates between the barriers at the ends of a very small dimension. An interaction with the end of that dimension changes the motion's direction information to the opposite direction, but blocks the transfer of motion amplitude to the barrier because the barrier cannot receive motion amplitude input. This creates a one dimensional standing wave structure that operates at 90 degrees to the direction of travel of the energy photon, thus producing its frequency, wavelength, and dynamic variable mass wave effects. To produce the three dimensional wave structure of the matter particle I use a more complex structure that also requires an additional dimension that interfaces with the other dimensions in such a way as to create an inter-dimensional cyclical motion flow. You can find more details in my current and other papers.

Sincerely,

Paul

Declan,

I fully agree with your concluding paragraph about the wave nature of particles. But I'm curious about your thoughts on entropy which you lead with in your paper. Do you have an idea how entropy fits into WSM (wave structure of matter)?

Jeff

Dear Declan,

I guess I just got carried away. To me, the source of the universe and all things in it is the most important understanding to obtain because everything else expands from that and there is so much to it, so I can go on for a much longer time than I did to explain everything, but for your sake I will try to keep this comment shorter.

I was not talking much about the evolution part of the problem in my previous comment except to point out that, since the DNA error rate and the positive result rate would increase exponentially with the population rate increase, we should be seeing many evolutionary changes all around us now, but it is not happening. Mainly I was talking about the difficulty in naturally producing the first living creature. The problem is that it is estimated that the simplest possible living creature would need to contain about 200 specific protein machines to carry out the minimum life functions of a living creature. In real living creatures these machines can have a chain of 300, 600, or even as much as 1400 amino acids, all of which must have the proper amino acid placed into each of those positions in the chain. I used an example of a protein with a chain of only 100 amino acid positions in it. Given the 160 different amino acids in nature, that would allow about 2.58 X 10^220 possible different proteins that could be built. Out of all of those possibilities you would need to get the 200 that you needed. Since it is estimated that there are only about 10^80 elementary particles in the universe and each protein machine would require a large number of them, you could only make a very small percentage of them if you used all of the universe's matter particles to do it. It is estimated that if you completely filled the universe with protons it would only hold about 10^128 of them and that is still a very small percentage of 10^220. The chances against any random self-assembly of just 1 such protein machine are so great that it could never happen, let alone making 200 of them that way. The massively parallel argument is a good one to start out with, but it only works for the production of the first protein because that one could be formed anywhere in the universe, but after that the other ones would all need to be formed on the same planet and in the same local area of it, so that once they were all formed, all of the machines could somehow be quickly brought together and somehow be brought to life before any of them was destroyed by entropy interactions. The smaller the area, the greater the chance that they could all come together once produced, but the fewer resources would be available limiting the quantity that could be produced in a given time frame. Catalysts facilitate a reaction between chemicals to speed it up, but they don't have the ability to choose the right specific amino acid and place it in a specific position in the protein chain. Even if you could speed up the random production of proteins, it would not help because you could not produce a large enough number of them to likely make the right one if you used all of the matter in the planet to do it.

If any big bangs occurred followed by big crunches as some suppose, everything that had been done to produce protein machines or anything else would be destroyed by the big crunch, so this would not help to produce living creatures. It would only result in repeating the production and then destruction of the same proteins over and over again, so life would never be produced. The problem with an endless universe that always was is that it is subject to entropy and it can be seen that it will ultimately effectively cease to exist or at least cease to operate.

In a sense you may be right in that God has always existed and he took a small part of the motion of which he is composed to make the universe and all that is in it. Therefore, all of the motions in the universe have always been in existence, they have just not always been put together in the current form. Would that be acceptable? That is why the total motion content is the one thing that is always conserved and can't be destroyed. It also explains why God has always been in existence and can't be destroyed.

Sincerely,

Paul

Dear Declan,

Are you aware of any of these tricks or are you just imagining the possibility of them? Imagining possibilities without a clear workable concept and without any observational evidence of their existence is not really science. It is just your desired belief. I learned a long time ago that if I really wanted to know how things really work I have to stay within the constraints of existing observational information when forming a concept and then if it requires that something exists that has not yet been observed in some way, I must wait until that observation has been made before I accept that concept as valid. As an example, the concept of a catalysis working to enable the production of living creatures does not work because it cannot generate the needed choice mechanism to choose which amino acids need to be added to make a valid protein molecule and the order in which they must be assembled to accomplish that end result. Speeding up a random process with one doesn't help because there isn't enough matter in the universe to make one of each of the possible different protein machines. This means that there would need to be a way for intelligent choices to be made. You are right that man has sometimes gained intelligent understandings that have made great advances in technology, which is an example of what intelligence can accomplish, which would be a good example that God being an intelligent being well beyond man's abilities could easily create living creatures, but the world that existed before the first living creature existed would not contain such intelligence other than from God. Being entropy based, it would work more to break down any complex structures, such as the protein machines, RNA molecules, and DNA molecules, etc. that would be needed to build the first living creature. Some of these protein machines are so delicate that man has not yet been able to keep them from breaking down long enough to take a neutron magnetic resonance image of them ounce they are extracted from a cell. It is not practical to expect the nonliving entropy based world structure to be able to exhibit the intelligence needed to plan organize and build the first living creature, of course, if you can see some actual provable way it can be done naturally, I would like to hear it. I have not been able to see any way it can be done. Generalizations of hoped for mechanisms without any observational evidence will not convince me or anyone else who really wants to know how it actually worked. Other than God, you cannot use examples of what man or other living creatures can do because they were not present at the time of the creation of the first living creature. You can only reasonably use natural processes that either exist today or of which there is reasonable observational evidence did exist at the time of the creation of the first living creature.

Where can I observe those natural fast track ways and how do they work? We all have desires as to how we would like the world to work. When we follow the observational data we often must accept that things don't work in the way that we desire them to work. We all possess imaginations. When we allow the observational information to guide our imaginations it can lead us to new understandings in science. On the other hand, when we allow our imaginations to guide our observations we are likely to come up with new understandings in science fiction. There is a market for that also, when it is clearly labeled as such, but it is an invitation to disaster when it is marketed as true science because it can hold back important advances that can often save people's lives or at least make their lives much better. That is why I always look for good practical ideas not just vague inferences of imagined possibilities. I am sure that I come across to many others as expecting too much of them, but in fact I understand man's faults and limitations, so in most cases I don't hold others to the same standard that I expect of myself, unless I see in them the ability to succeed at that level. In those cases I work harder to see if they are willing to actually achieve what they truly can. I must admit that so far in this world, I have not found many that both have the ability and are willing to put in the work necessary to become fully developed. We all, of course, have our ultimate limitations and must learn to live and work the best that we can within them.

Sincerely,

Paul

Dear Declan,

I realize that there are those who just consider anything that they don't understand and can't observe the evidence of its cause, to be just an unexplainable act of God. At the same time, I have also, especially recently, noticed many who automatically consider such things to be an act of nature. I am not like that because I desire to know the true cause of all things to the greatest degree that I can. If the cause of something is completely unknown and there is no convincing evidence either way, I would withhold judgment either way and just admit that I don't currently have the information to discern the cause. That is much better than to jump to a conclusion either way because that would tend to blind me from any new evidence that would suggest that the choice that I did not choose is actually the cause. It is, therefore, an error to put such things into either the God or nature basket. True science is not limited to the study of nature only or of God only. It is the pursuit of the knowledge and understanding of all things that exist. If God exists and did create the universe and the life that is in it, then that is very important for us to understand because if he in some way communicates to us the reason for the creation and why he created life including us, it could completely alter and enrich our lives in many positive ways. On the other hand, if we ignore his communication to us, it could lead to disaster because we could completely fail to fulfill his purpose for us, which could result in his rejection of us and lead to very bad consequences for us, etc. On the other hand, fulfilling our purpose could result in very good things for us. At the same time, it is important for us to understand how the world works because that can lead to the ability to control things in it in such a way as to make our lives better also. In the long run if you keep your mind open to all of the possibilities you will be able to be on the right side based on all of the currently available observational information. If new observations alter the balance in favor of one position over the other you will be ready to choose whatever the preponderance of the information indicates to be the best choice at that time. Contrary to the expectations of many people science is not as exact as some would like to believe it is. This is because we never have all of the possible observational evidence for us to be sure we interpret it accurately. When you add to that the understanding that people usually bring their desired beliefs of how they want things to be and work into their interpretation of the evidence, it is easy to see why so many false assumptions of the meaning of the observational evidence have occurred over time in science. You are right that many things have been attributed to God and later were found to be just natural functions of the structure of the universe. I am now, however, seeing many things being put down to nature that the preponderance of the evidence suggests would be better to be attributed to God. Interestingly, it has been the advancement of science that has led to this conclusion. A couple of these things are:

1. It is now apparent that the structure of the universe is that of a multilevel hierarchical device or machine that starts out in an abstract form based on simple motions that are combined to form the base level of sub-energy particles that field structures are composed of, energy photons that transfer motions between structures and matter particles that form the body of the structures. These first level structures are joined together to generate the second hierarchical level of atomic structure. The atoms of this level combine together in many ways to produce the third molecular level. The molecules are then combined together in many ways to produce the large scale literal objects that we see and use that make up the fourth hierarchical level of construction. This type of construction of starting with simple parts and combining them together into more complicated subassemblies and then combining the subassemblies together to form larger assemblies and then combining the assemblies together to make a complex structure or machine is exactly the way that intelligent man builds complex structures, such as a car, etc. This is clear evidence that intelligence was behind and directed the creation of the universe. On the other hand, a natural world that was formed by chance happenings would be a much more flat non-structured world because chance equal probability occurrences would tend toward the middle average range and, therefore, would not tend to build up complex highly improbable structures that would continually require the right choices to be made to build them into higher level structures and keep them from collapsing. This would be the case even at the most basic choice level. As an example, cyclical motion structures are required to generate energy photons and matter particles. Generally cyclical motions must travel sequentially in both directions in each dimension that takes part in the cyclical motion. To generate cyclical motions at the very lowest level of construction generally requires that the dimensional system be structured to generate them. Each of the lowest three dimensions is structured the same as the other two dimensions, which would be in accordance with what might be expected from a naturally generated universe, but the fourth and fifth dimensions are each structured differently from the first 3 and also from each other in order to allow for the production of energy photons and matter particles. The fourth dimension is somewhat more complex than the first 3 and the fifth dimension has an even more complex structure than the fourth. This progressive increase in complexity at this level is not something that would be expected to occur by chance, especially since the structural entity crossover points and dimensional size and interfacing, etc. are exactly that needed to allow the production of the energy photons and matter particles. If these were off, the universe would only contain sub-energy particles. Note: I realize that much of the above information is well beyond man's current knowledge level, but I give it for the benefit of all that may be able to understand these things at present and to man when these concepts are later commonly understood. The speed of light is the result of the motion crossover point between the lower three dimensions and the fourth dimension. If there was no fourth dimension, sub-energy particles could travel at any speed and there would not be energy photons. If the fourth dimension exists, but is structured the same as the first three, sub-energy particles would have four dimensions to travel in, but there still would not be any energy photons. It is only when the dimensional structural design is as it is that it allows photons to exist and behave as they do. Similar things could be said about the production of matter particles. Similar things could also be said about how the internal motions of matter particles interact with sub-energy particles to produce the particles' internal and external sub-energy field structures that allow the protons and neutrons to be contained in the center of an atom and also allow the electrons to be bound to their appropriate places within the external field structure, etc. At each hierarchical level there are similar finely balanced structures that would not be generated by random occurrences. Most of the things that I have mentioned here are not what you would commonly find in other material, but many current scientists have noted how universal constants, etc. are balanced just right to allow the world to exist in a way that would allow life to be formed and live. This is why the multiverse concept was developed to try to explain the problem away by saying that if there were billions of universes, it would not be unexpected that one of them would form the way this one did. The problem with that concept is that there is no observational evidence of the existence of a multiverse, so it is just another imaginary thing invented to distract people from where the actual observational evidence leads to.

2. The production of the first living creature is the other area where it is obvious that intelligence was involved. I have already given information that shows that the protein machines that are in all living creatures could not be randomly produced by natural occurrences because of the vast number of possible different proteins that can be made. It requires an intelligence to be able to determine the needed structure that each needed protein would require in order to be able to perform its intended purpose and then to choose the number of amino acids that would be needed and their proper sequencing to produce the needed protein machines to build the living creature and then to actually build the machines. I should also mention that the protein machines are not all just a long single chain of amino acids. Many have various shapes such as spirals and even have small appendages that can be used to grab things, etc. They can be more complex structures than might be believed from just the description of them as chains of amino acids. These extra complexities that give them the ability to do what they do are also signs of an intelligence behind their construction.

I guess I got carried away again, so I will end this. My point is that all of the evidence at present points to intelligence being involved in all aspects of the universe's creation and I have not found any one that can explain these things from a naturalist perspective without falling back on nonspecific generalizations or imaginary inventions that have no observational evidence to support them or by trying to make people believe that well known attributes of the universe, such as entropy work differently than all of the observational evidence indicates that they do, etc.

Sincerely,

Paul

Dear Declan,

The problem with considering the universe to be God is that the intelligence that was required to build the universe would have been needed from the beginning of the universe to even generate energy photons and matter particles, etc. and the universe would not have had any structure at that time that could contain any intelligence. The universe even today does not contain such intelligence. There is no observational evidence that the universe is creating any new universes. Even the most intelligent living being in the universe today, which as far as man here knows to exist is man himself and man is nowhere near intelligent enough to plan and build the universe, so the required intelligence had to come from outside of the universe in order to plan it out and then build it all from base motions successfully. This means that both must exist separately. This does not mean that the scientific method cannot be used to learn things about God or his creation. After all, the scientific discoveries about the complex structure of the universe and the living creatures in it have now made the preponderance of the evidence to be in favor of God's needed existence to explain how it could possibly come about. There are many things we can learn about him from observing the universe that he made. The fact that he could start out with just basic motions and build them up to make the whole universe in all of its complexity shows us that he is worthy to be honored by us and we can learn much about how to do things ourselves by observing how he did these things. The fact that man builds things on the level that he can, in a similar way, does give credence to the concept that we were made in his image. Of course, the image is never as good as the real thing, so we can't start with base motions and build a universe, but we can build small things based on similar principles with the materials that we can work with. The way that the universe is made indicates that God desired for us to know that he built it. As an example, if he had only made it possible to construct the protein machines that are needed to create living creatures or if he had made a mechanism that automatically built the needed proteins in large quantities, so that we would see them laying around everywhere, it might not seem so impossible for them to have somehow come about naturally, but instead he made it possible to make so many different proteins that it would be obvious that they could not have come about naturally. I have found other such indications that he made the world in such a way as to tell us things about him. In the scriptures God tells us that he is a spirit. He tells us that a spirit has not flesh and bones (not made of matter). He also says that those who are led by the Spirit are like the wind. You can hear the sound thereof, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it goes. A good image of this is the sub-energy particles because you cannot see them or tell where they come from or where they go, but you can experience their effects like the push experienced when the like poles of two magnets are pushed toward each other. They also hold all of the matter particles together in the atomic and molecular levels of construction, etc. He says that his son Jesus Christ is the only mediator between him and man and that man is intended to be his body. Energy photons are a good image of the Son because they can transfer motion and information from sub-energy particles to the matter particles which make up the body structure of the universe. This transfer can work the other way also. There are also three major hierarchical structural levels that build the complexity up to the large scale objects that we see. They are the basic particle level, the atomic level and the molecular levels of structure. These three levels are for the most part invisible to us except when very large numbers of atoms or molecules are joined together. God also generally remains invisible to us except when he appears to someone to give a message to man or in the form of works that man cannot do such as in miraculous healings, etc. The longest time that he appeared was when he sent his son Jesus Christ into the world for over thirty three years to have him give us his New Testament or agreement with man during the last three and one half years of that time, which was about two thousand years ago. Since you desire to believe in a naturalistic world construction, you probably do not believe in such things and I did not either until I opened the scriptures and found that it contains scientific information about the structure of the world that is still well beyond man's current level of understanding. This is extraordinary for a book that was written about two thousand years ago, which is very long before man had any idea of the nature of atoms let alone subatomic particles, energy photons, or sub-energy particles or the field structures that they make. So, information has been given to us about God, why he made the universe, and how we figure into all of it, in both the structure of the world and also in his words that he has given to us through man over time. I gave some information from the scriptures about the structure of the world in Genesis at the end of my paper and there are many other things in various places throughout the scriptures that give information about many different things, but there would be no use going through them unless you are interested. If you are interested, I would be happy to give such information.

Sincerely,

Paul

Dear Declan

I think your essay is convincing " none is more essential than the fact that the energy in the Universe has a wave nature and is able to form stable three dimensional standing wave structures that persist over time. We know these structures as particles."

If it was not true we would not have a chance discussing this problem for we would nor exist.

Respectfully Karoly