This post is full of useful info Torsten!

I think you are talking about the fact that the Frobenius conjecture is proved, and is therefore a theorem, in your comment "A deep theorem states now that only the S^1, S^3 and S^7 have this property so that the only normed algebras are C, H and O." I used to freak out when I saw that name, close the book or put down the paper, and then say "that's enough for now," but I have since learned that Frobenius was a friend to my cause all along.

I will follow up on your essay page.

All the Best,

Jonathan

Thank you Noson..

After reading your essay; I agree our perspectives are quite different, but our views complement each other well - filling in the gaps of what is left unsaid.

More later,

Jonathan

Your comments are most appreciated Alfredo..

Differences in perspective often bring clarity to a subject, because people tend to get tunnel-vision over time. Something called the Einstellung effect sets in, where people try to adapt their prior assumptions as little as possible, rather than adopting a superior model when it comes along - even if there is a great leap in predictive capability. Sometimes the compelling utility of existing understanding, or even the great investment in effort required to master a subject (as with String Theory), will blur our vision on better alternatives.

I am also unaffiliated with any academic institution. But I make an effort to appear at conferences and submit my papers for publication. At this point; I get invitations from time to time, some of my prior publications got me on somebody's list of authors in a certain field. But once that happens; you need to keep yourself in the game by participating - submissions to journals, abstracts to conference organizers, proposals for grants, entries to contests, and so on. Only when the right people know who you are can they advance your cause.

All the Best,

Jonathan

I had a deep theorem of Adams in mind (which spheres have a trivial tangent bundle, answer only S^1, S^3 and S^7)

Frobenius conjecture is more connected with sporadic groups (with many relations to integer octonions).

More later

Torsten

Dear Jonathan J. Dickau,

Thank you for your comment and the article of A. D. Sakharov, you sent.

And I very much appreciate that

"This is a question I addressed in my first ever Gravity Research Foundation essay, just submitted this week. I also employ the metaphor of a sink drain, though it is not my central thesis"

If it is possible, I would like to read your essay in Gravity Research Foundation.

Thank you again,

With Best Regards,

Ch.Bayarsaikhan

    Nice to read your essay.... and your proposal about small scales...from my poit of view the String proposal of KK spaces (Universes) of 6D is very interesting and suitables... these 6D could be the floor generators of Our Scale Universe, and that could explain why String Theory is good to explain Our Scale Range... because it is composed by very small 6D branes.... Vacuum will be these 6D KK structure.... but inside these KK 6D spaces, other universes could be...

      Dear Jonathan,

      I am going to disappoint you ! I never felt so handicapped perusing any essay as I felt while reading this. I had to consult and learn the mathematical terms afresh. Took the whole day just doing that. Even then my knowledge fell short to understanding dense / cryptic use of mathematics and their implications. So, I am not in a position to add value with my analysis.

      My general style is to comment on the whole of the essay as a theme, whether it is in line with the idea of this essay contest, but I cannot do that in this case. I am reduced to picking only those statements that I could understand, even if it meant taking them out of the context. Your statements are double quoted before my responses.

      "This lends support to the author's idea that nature employs the totality of all Mathematics - discovered and undiscovered - in its handiwork, such that invariant realities in Math spell out their own importance to Physics, and give rise to the universe we see today."

      Not all of known mathematics is useful in describing the physical reality. Furthermore, it does not appear that mathematical methods can have any kind of limits, they can be discovered ad infinitum, irrespective of their applicability in describing the natural function.

      "In my view; the laws of nature arise largely because the Math has its own ideas about what is relevant to Physics, and also engenders the evolution of form that is capable of consciousness and volition. So in this essay; I will spell out, in some measure, what I think Mathematics is telling the universe to create."

      You seem to be ascribing volition to mathematics, as if it has causal power of its own. Could mathematics function on its own, or if material things are required to carry out the function of applicable mathematics?

      "Nature is not limited by our views about what in Math is relevant to physical law." -- Agreeable.

      "If multiplication depends on the order of the elements being multiplied together and even on how they are grouped, then at one fell swoop, geometry enters the calculation in an organic way. The Principle of Indeterminacy could then arise in a natural fashion from relativistic considerations, making quantum theory a consequence of an underlying 8-dimensional hidden-variable process, very much in the flavor of the theories of de Broglie and Bohm." [3] So we see that octonion Math dictates emergence."

      I read it so many times, yet I could not understand any of the assertions, how they followed from non-associative multiplication. Certainly I am not enlightened enough in maths and physics to judge this essay.

      I am sorry, I cannot evaluate.

      Rajiv

      P.S. Previously, the comment appeared under Anonymous.

        Thanks anyway Rajiv!

        In a way, you have paid me a compliment and shown me I am at a crossroads. I felt the same, the first time I read Alain Connes' paper "Noncommutative Geometry Year 2000" I would get a few pages in, get overloaded, then come back again another day until I could get a little further each time. Much of it seemed utterly incomprehensible, but I eventually grasped a few key concepts - due to sheer repetition. Later I learned that Connes advised budding mathematicians to do exactly that, adding that when his brain became full he would recline for a while and nap or lay in reverie while letting the new ideas sink in.

        I am presenting an idea that is foreign to almost everyone literate in Math, which goes against the grain of some of what we are taught early on, and that only a handful of mathematicians are masterful about. The fact that I see it as a key is only that I have focused so intently on certain points of interest for years. No worries!

        All the Best,

        Jonathan

        Dear Jonathan,

        Interesting and original essay! I share your interest in the strange beasts of higher mathematics, the Monster Group, the Mandelbrot Set, E8, etc., even if I am not convinced that we can recover as much fundamental physics from them that you think can be done. But what I fully agree with, having come up with the same incomprehension with my own Mathematical Universe Hypothesis related scenarios, is that most people have a completely inaccurate conception of what math is! I fully agree with you when you say that

        "Seeing Math as dry - as though it was mindless and lifeless - is the real problem, and the mystery of where evolution comes from will disappear when we realize what Math is at its root, a systematic exploration of features characterizing the laws by which form evolves."

        Good luck in the contest! Sincerely,

        Marc

          Thanks greatly Marc,

          I appreciate that you share my opinion about the true nature of Math, because it has become hard for me to see Math as dull and lifeless. Instead; I am continually surprised by discoveries of beauty and hidden order in structures I thought I had understood. I thank you for the thoughtful remarks and a fair rating along with. I have been looking forward to reading your essay, and I'll push it up the queue a bit, to get to it sooner.

          All the Best,

          Jonathan

          Dear Jonathan

          I enjoyed your essay despite the fact that it mostly refers to areas of Maths that I only heard about without learning - quaternions, octonians, E8, and the others you are thankfully comfortable with.

          Because of writing my contribution to last years's fqxi contest I have thought a lot about the intimate relationship of physics and mathematics. I concluded that it is not to be wondered that the human mind, having evolved from organisms that themselves evolved evolved closely on the molecular scale with Nature itself, has the capacity to understand that Nature. Also that mathematics itself is firmly rooted in -at least - the model of the Universe I have concocted: concepts like number, dimensions, rotation, geometry all emerge from the lattice of of an evolving cellular automata.

          For the above reason I felt a little uncomfortable with the autonomous almost living powers you almost give to mathematics, although you are of course right in trusting its continuing importance in physics.

          Vladimir

            Oh and I forgot to mention that I wrote my entire post whilst enjoying listening to Pete Seeger's "At 89" which you contributed to as "choir, chorus, engineer, mixing, vocals"- great! One wants to know more about your other talents and achievements!

            V

              Thank you so much Vladimir!

              Your comments are most welcome, and I look forward to reading your essay. It is a busy day for me, but I expect to get back to reading later today, and I'll have a full comment then.

              All the Best,

              Jonathan

              Thanks greatly David,

              As I recall, I much enjoyed your alternatively scale-relative essay.

              Kind Regards,

              Jonathan

              Thank you for your interest..

              As you know, I did send the paper you requested, and you acknowledged on your own essay thread. I hope my Gravity Research Foundation essay is of some value.

              Regards,

              Jonathan

              Jonathan Dickau,

              I enjoyed your essay because it is open to the idea that math itself contains the seeds of consciousness. I am an agnostic when it comes to the existence of consciousness or volition before it emerges in physical form but do agree with you that these must be based on a mathematical structure.

              Fractal structures are ubiquitous in nature; causal lattices find a home in various mappings from the most fundamental particle interactions through the most complex structures in the universe, neural nets.

              Also, I think that to dismiss imaginary and complex numbers as nonphysical is shortsighted as the equations that contain them fit with physical observation in a way that classical equations (those with just real numbers) do not. You put it well when you say: "... Nor does it make sense to assert that the real world is content to function within the space of real numbers."

              Hawking's question: "what puts the fire in the equations?" becomes relevant here. It has long been the contention of philosophers that abstract objects are causally inert; and here again I am an agnostic. There is the old saw in physics, which may well be operant, that whatever is not forbidden is mandatory; so given a start, any start, to physical existence, even a probabilistic one, it opens the door for a physical emergence of consciousness.

              Another of your observations, beautifully put: "... non-zero ordinary or simple numbers are the end of the process chain."

              I am being speculative here, but it seems the complex interference patterns of the eigenstates of physical being held in superposition takes place in a complex space. And, as George Ellis puts it, collapse of the wavefunction is contextual. The inner product of that interference pattern is discarded by observation (probabilistically, by decoherence or by a conscious intervention) and what remains is the real number part.

              The rules of non-commutative and non-associative math make it a tougher slog to an understanding. In none of my science classes was this presented as a path forward. At the point where the math becomes that much more challenging, for those of us who possess more scientific curiosity than mathematical ability, it becomes very discouraging indeed to be confronted with this much homework; it becomes a barrier to entry. When the phenomenon we see in nature do not yield to the simple formulations about the mathematics we know well, and then again to the intermediate formulations and then again to the more difficult formulations, it then finally occurs to us that, yes indeed, it can be this difficult. It goes against the grain of the human tendency to look for the keys under the lamp post, where the looking is easier.

              Also, I really like the idea that, on its smallest levels, the structure (quantized discrete structures?!) of space goes (go) back to being 2-D and you go on to suggest that dimensionalities should be viewed as a spectrum, and further they are not limited to integer values and change over time, which opens the idea even more. Well done, sir! That opens the problem up nicely. I don't believe we will ever be able to go back to conceiving of physical reality limited to a simple Euclidean form.

              I don't think of nature or math as an orchestrator of relationships; nature does not have to resort to trying these combinations out in sequence. Mathematics holds all of the eigenstates of physical being in superposition and can solve them by the interference patterns they produce; they shimmer into existence by virtue of their holographic fruitfulness.

              Some of the underlying structures are more fruitful than others, so one would intuit that evolution would occur over a spacio-temporal spectrum of emergence. As you say: "we will see that math requires it."

              Best regards,

              Jim Stanfield

                Thank you very much Jim!

                As I recall; I am preaching to the choir for you, because your essay strongly espoused a view that the universe is mathematical at its roots. But your detailed comments indicate that you read the essay top to bottom, which means I kept your attention throughout. Some of the complication introduced by hyper-complex terms that arise in Physics were there to start with, only not acknowledged on their own terms (pun intended). The fact remains that nature is often more complex than we imagined, so it is not such a stretch that hyper-complex numbers are required to model its evolving grace of form.

                For what it's worth; Paul Kainen endorses the way I used his work in my essay, and was flattered to be mentioned in connection with statements by Connes. Those were his comments to me in correspondence after seeing the essay. But a lot of people stop short of the answers that are right in front of them, because their knowledge of the Maths that would let them take the next step is lacking. So they imagine no answers exist, because a lot of the experts (save Connes and a few radical figures) are failing to see the potential or the need for non-commutative and non-associative geometry and algebra, for Physics at all.

                It appears that you grasp some parts of my essay that others would have missed, so I am leaving the full comment visible for now. A good friend of mine uses the words "if they only did the Math right" frequently, when referring to the fact that most Physics folks take the easy way out, while other folks are not afraid to follow the arc of analytic continuation out to its completion - taking the next step until there are none. My friend is rather smart, though. Another contest participant, Andy Beckwith, is a 999 (99.9th percentile) and he just returned from Rencontres de Moriond, but we both agree he is much smarter.

                However we all agree some of this stuff should be basic training for serious Physics folks, that most will only learn if they go for a second or third doctoral degree. This is no priority for American scholars, unfortunately, so there are a lot of folks with an incomplete education in the Mathematics which would allow them to invent next-generation Physics. People like Ed Witten (whom I have met) have a big enough mathematical toolbox and a broad enough perspective to explore many paths and be less attached to something like String Theory (though he is its guru). But not all are accorded the freedom to look where the answers actually are.

                More later,

                Jonathan

                One needs to acknowledge..

                The science of optical perspective is encoded in Projective Geometry, a branch of Mathematics which oddly turns out to be connected with the octonions. 'Why should this be?' I wonder, but know it is true. So there are ways the everyday and higher Maths are intertwined. However; sometimes fundamental realities really are as simple as we imagine them to be, as with your 'beautiful universe' theory. So do not lose sight of the fact you can be on to something, even if that is not the full picture or a commanding view.

                My main point is that Math evolves, as you appear to agree, only I think Math moves forward under its own power.

                All the Best,

                Jonathan

                How nice that optical perspective/ projective geometry are related to octonians! As a primarily visual person I fully understand the former, but the algebraic form confuses me. I have invented a mechanical device the Perspector to draw perspectives of 3D objects and in one of my fqxi essays used the example of perspective to show how an observer's point-of-view can 'distort' an object while the object is actually unchanged (to contrast Einsten's observer-based Special Relativity from one embedded in an absolute universe).

                Dear Jonathan,

                With great interest I read your essay, which of course is worthy of high rating.

                I share your aspiration to seek the truth

                «But scientists now think space itself must have a microscopic and quantum mechanical structure, like a fabric with an amazing weave that knits space and time together.»

                I agree with you

                «I assert that nature puts the looming realities of higher Math to work automatically, because they help set nature in motion, and keep it on course toward ideal or optimal goals.»

                «So it is easy to forget that every object is the product of a process by which it came to be, and that ongoing processes maintain its form - giving it specific properties.»

                «geometry enters the calculation in an organic way.»

                «I see the most recent void discovery as further evidence that the universe is fractal at all scales.»

                I wish you success in the contest.

                Kind regards,

                Vladimir