Dear Luke,

You are absolutely right and we concur fully, Soul can exist independently on it's own. Consciousness or Soul is fundamental and can further manifest Mind and Body if it chooses to. In a simple geometric evolution, a 2-Sphere (Soul) comes first and then evolves to a 3-sphere (Soul, Mind and Body). Also please see There are no goals as such it's all play.

Love,

i.

This is a very pleasant essay to read. I resonate with the idea that consciousness is defined as a "Critical Instability Point." This matches with my conclusion that the laws of physics are a collective behavior at a critical point of universality. Consciousness only exists when connected with this through senses. That's my view. It's good to see that people are keeping the TM movement going.

    thanks philip. so... extending what you say, logically (regarding consciousness): to *deny* the evidence of one's senses - or mind - would be the beginning of pathological states. we cannot *possibly* say that we are moving towards a goal, with aims or intent, if we seek at the same time to *deliberately* refuse to acknowledge certain input or conclusions. how could we? under such circumstance the adjustments needed to create the required corrective feedback cannot possibly be successful.

    regarding TM: i feel that it's... kinda... well, it was one of the pioneers of what's now become much more prevalent, so now kinda "blends into in the background noise". but, more than that: you never *needed* to "support" the TM "movement", you just needed to do it :)

    Dear Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton,

    Please excuse me for I have no intention of disparaging in any way any part of your essay.

    I merely wish to point out that "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955) Physicist & Nobel Laureate.

    Only nature could produce a reality so simple, a single cell amoeba could deal with it.

    The real Universe must consist only of one unified visible infinite physical surface occurring in one infinite dimension, that am always illuminated by infinite non-surface light.

    A more detailed explanation of natural reality can be found in my essay, SCORE ONE FOR SIMPLICITY. I do hope that you will read my essay and perhaps comment on its merit.

    Joe Fisher, Realist

    hi joe,

    yes i've used "it really should be simpler than this" many many times. also however in the field of software engineering i have learned that sometimes it really does have to be complex in order to cover "all the options" shall we say. but even there, there is no need - no call - for wasting time "over-engineering". in complex systems this is especially true, where it is hard enough to understand what's going on *without* having "over-engineering" in the mix as well :)

    l.

    Wonderful essay Leighton,

    Your ideas and thinking are excellent. It is first time I met a reverse engineer and I am lucky to see his skills are used in neuron sciences and our brains. Best wishes.

    Some of your words...

    Those Reverse-Engineers that I have encountered in the Software Libre field have a rough time: their expertise allows them to foresee outcomes and make near-prescient predictions with startling accuracy that then, like the Prophets and Oracles from past millenia, has them hated, feared, ignored, despised and in some cases has large Corporations going after them - illegally or unethically or both - with absolutely everything they've got, including outright fabrication, blackmail of their sponsors as a way to stop their funding, and slander

    ......................... Very sad state of affairs for such excellent skills.

    I felt very happy that you are using Indian philosophy and logic like "Advaita Vedanta" and "Transidental Meditation of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, the leader of the TM Movement,". They are very good things.

    Your application examples like 'human DNA,' 'Quantum Mechanics with a "twist": self-referral QM', "Maharishi's perspective that the Unifying Field is "Creative Intelligence"

    .................. Here I am proposing some form of detectable intelligence in the Universe which exhibits goals and reproduction in universe. Dynamic Universe Model is another mathematical model for Universe. Its mathematics show that the movement of masses will be having a purpose or goal, Different Galaxies will be born and die (quench) etc...just have a look at my essay... "Distances, Locations, Ages and Reproduction of Galaxies in our Dynamic Universe" where UGF (Universal Gravitational force) acting on each and every mass, will create a direction and purpose of movement.....

    For your information Dynamic Universe model is totally based on experimental results. Here in Dynamic Universe Model Space is Space and time is time in cosmology level or in any level. In the classical general relativity, space and time are convertible in to each other.

    Many papers and books on Dynamic Universe Model were published by the author on unsolved problems of present day Physics, for example 'Absolute Rest frame of reference is not necessary' (1994) , 'Multiple bending of light ray can create many images for one Galaxy: in our dynamic universe', About "SITA" simulations, 'Missing mass in Galaxy is NOT required', "New mathematics tensors without Differential and Integral equations", "Information, Reality and Relics of Cosmic Microwave Background", "Dynamic Universe Model explains the Discrepancies of Very-Long-Baseline Interferometry Observations.", in 2015 'Explaining Formation of Astronomical Jets Using Dynamic Universe Model, 'Explaining Pioneer anomaly', 'Explaining Near luminal velocities in Astronomical jets', 'Observation of super luminal neutrinos', 'Process of quenching in Galaxies due to formation of hole at the center of Galaxy, as its central densemass dries up', "Dynamic Universe Model Predicts the Trajectory of New Horizons Satellite Going to Pluto" etc., are some more papers from the Dynamic Universe model. Four Books also were published. Book1 shows Dynamic Universe Model is singularity free and body to collision free, Book 2, and Book 3 are explanation of equations of Dynamic Universe model. Book 4 deals about prediction and finding of Blue shifted Galaxies in the universe.

    With axioms like... No Isotropy; No Homogeneity; No Space-time continuum; Non-uniform density of matter(Universe is lumpy); No singularities; No collisions between bodies; No Blackholes; No warm holes; No Bigbang; No repulsion between distant Galaxies; Non-empty Universe; No imaginary or negative time axis; No imaginary X, Y, Z axes; No differential and Integral Equations mathematically; No General Relativity and Model does not reduce to General Relativity on any condition; No Creation of matter like Bigbang or steady-state models; No many mini Bigbangs; No Missing Mass; No Dark matter; No Dark energy; No Bigbang generated CMB detected; No Multi-verses etc.

    Many predictions of Dynamic Universe Model came true, like Blue shifted Galaxies and no dark matter. Dynamic Universe Model gave many results otherwise difficult to explain

    Have a look at my essay on Dynamic Universe Model and its blog also where all my books and papers are available for free downloading...

    http://vaksdynamicuniversemodel.blogspot.in/

    Best wishes to your essay.

    For your blessings please................

    =snp. gupta

      hi Satyavarapu thank you for the comments and the introduction to your work. it occurs to me to mention that a friend of mine made me aware of his work as well (into 4-momentum: a perspective where you consider everything in terms of TIME x y and z), and he said to me that part of the base laws is that 4-MOMENTUM is conserved.

      now, we're taught that *energy* is conserved but i was struck dumb for several minutes as to the possible implications of 4-momentum being conserved. not only can you derive the law of conservation of energy from that but also it implies that the RATE OF CHANGE of 4-momentum is ALSO CONSERVED.

      if i understand your paper correctly, this could be, fundamentally, why you were able to derive the double blue/red-shift results that you did, because you would get a "push-back" from one galaxy onto the other.

      i would be interested to hear your thoughts about the implications of conservation of 4-momentum.

      9 days later

      Luke,

      Boy am I impressed! From your essay I copyed "100% certainty is a pathological state of mind" And when I pasted it into this post I got "Ô£ÂÔ£ÁÔ£ÁÔ£¬ ÔØØÔØírtÔØøÔ£ÉÔÖÑtÔ'í Ô£És ÔØø ÔÖúÔØøtÔØñÔÖªÔØºÔÖªÔØúÔ£ÉÔØØÔØøÔØº stÔØøtÔØí ÔÖªÔØó ÔÖáÔ£ÉÔÖÑÔØ×Ô£│"

      I am still laughing ......I will read the rest of your essay. I know it will enlighten me. But I do not need to read further to give this essay a 10.

      Feel free to read my essay. It is not nearly as good as yours!

      Don Limuti

        Luke,

        Just finished your paper and agree completely with:

        Preserve existence and become part of something larger.

        тЬзPrтЭбsтЭбтЬИтЭб тЭКт'атЬРstтЭбтЩетЭЭтЭб тЭЫтЩетЭЮ тЭЗтЭб PтЭЫrt тЭ-тЭв тЭЩтЩжтЩатЭбtтЭдтЬРтЩетЭгт-▓тЭЫrтЭгтЭбrтЬзтЬ│

        FYI: Your essay has some similarity with William's essay: http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/2844

        Namaste,

        Don Limuti

        9 days later

        Dear Luke,

        I note, "Thus, it is emphasized that goals are needed. If there is no goal, there is no means by which efforts may be focused."

        Dr Alex Hankey's work to construct a new formulation of QM remained unstated. So, one is not in a position to infer whether there could be a mindful laws. While it is understandable that creating an empirical demonstration of such laws that exhibit mindfulness could not be easy, even some indirect means to observe or derive could have been demonstrated. Without which it is near impossible to make headways to gain objective acceptance.

        No doubt, it was fun to read, "The electron can even 'react' by changing its state, and can even expand its radius (move to an orbit), and team up with another electron to create a superconducting pair. All of which sounds pretty damn hyper-intelligent to my mind". My first reaction was what a brilliant argument.

        If one ascribes the natural outcomes of electrons' interactions describable by 'mindless laws' as the achievement of their own wishful aims, then of course the definition itself has been turned onto its head, and then every act of every physical entity in the physical universe would appear intelligent. That is, a change in definition makes everything willful. Let me see if I can construct an example such that a violation of this principle becomes apparent. Each electron has intentions favoring its own goals, so does an atom, a molecule, and even an organism. What does the theory say, if electrons' aims are in opposition to atom's aims, atom's aims are in opposition to that of the hosting molecule or to another atom in the same molecule, and so on at each level in hierarchy?

        If the components of an organism have aims in opposition to the whole organism, may be such that the organism dies but those molecules, or organs have their goals met. First, there has to be rules who wins over whom and how? Conflict among multitude of such mutual interests have to be resolved by new laws. Second, why do I not feel that I am in opposition to the will of any organ in my body, or that I am resolving the issues among multitude of organs in my body. Third, if each of the fundamental entities in nature is 'out to organize' themselves, then why does the 'increase in entropy' come into force at all? I mean, what intelligent source in the universe is beating the acts of these entities to enforce increase in entropy?

        One thing is certain, this may constitute a high quality subject matter of quality science fiction, if a story teller is creative, and director is intelligent to portray conflicts and their resolution. Imagine, a photon is received by a matter body, an electron is knocked out, but it quickly decides to join another atom, or decides to go solo into the space, since different electrons may have different views about what is good for them. No, I am certainly not criticizing here, I am in fact having fun to see the possibilities.

        I am also impressed with the author's non-dualist sense of empathy with all the elements of the universe. I do not find myself competent to judge, therefore, I refrain from rating this essay.

        Rajiv

          Ok, I have read all the essays in this contest.

          I must say that your is the more interesting among all, initially you have disgressed a little, but the content is worth reading.

          It is interesting the theory of Alex Hankey (that the next months I must read), but I think the definition is right in some parts, but as you show could include each material point because of the critical point is not a stastistical point: if you use a statistical definition, naturally you get a definition of intelligence that is a macroscopical definition, and there is a clear demarcation between intelligence, and no intelligence, macroscopical matter.

          This is a clear example of a goal as the context required.

          The self censorship can only slow the research in the field (and it is always a political censorship), but in each case the result are achieved, so that I think that one must think about the ethics of the research, to reduce (or eliminate) the deleterious effects of the results: I think the possible results obtainable by an artificial intelligence in the care of the ills of the world.

            ha, hilarious :) appreciate you bringing william's essay to my attention. hmm, it explores bell's inequality.... have you seen joy christian's disproof of bell's theorem? very interesting battle going on there (which was sponsored by fqxi).

            hi rajiv, thank you so much for your kind words and insights.

            *deep breath*... it's time for me to mention, sadly, that the rules of this essay contest, being completely ambiguous (and unfairly applied) meant that i was forced to drastically cut the essay's length to 25,000 *keystrokes* where brendan was in fact measuring the size of a MICROSOFT WORD document as being under 25k in length as the "cut-off" criteria. 25,000 *keystrokes* is around 5 pages in length.

            so it was flat-out impossible to add in references to dr hankey's work, or add further explanations, as i was under the impression that the length limit was a whopping 50% less than everyone else has been submitting.

            that having been said i'll ask dr hankey for a doi reference (or other) to his papers. it's part of his paper on homeopathy, that much i remember. the basic principle is that operating at a critical instability point is what pretty much all (healthy) biological systems do: operate on a knife-edge between two extremes: implosion or explosion where even a single microscopic change in energy not just rapidly but *immediately* results in a drastic macroscopic whole-organism response.

            in speaking with dr hankey last week i expanded on the importance of adding noise into a neural net. neurons operate on the principle that they respond (fire) if either multiple inputs fire (within a certain specific simultaneous time-range) or if *one* (or more) inputs fire *repeatedly* in quick succession.

            detection in an eye of a single photon flashing at a low rate is thus flat-out impossible under normal circumstances: the single photon is (by way of being "single") simply not capable of firing multiple neurons, nor is it strong enough to result in the "multi-repeat" threshold.

            so how does nature solve this? it does so by causing *all* neurons to fire randomly... and then *filters out* the randomness in *subsequent layers* of the network. so now, averaging over time, whereas previously we had an input of say "0.1" representing the single photon, we have "0.1 + randomness(0.9 +/- 0.12 sigma")... *now* what happens is that the randomness is disturbed by that single photon, one of the neurons fires more than the randomness would otherwise dictate, and we have a means to detect ultra-ultra-slow-speed *single photons*.

            thus, paradoxically, by adding randomness into a biological system (instability), it is able to detect microscopic changes. however, having randomness in a system like this could easily result in total garbage... and *that's* what the "critical instability point" detection is all about. it's necessary to *filter out* that randomness but you have to know how much randomness (on average) there was in the first place in order to filter it out. if you *don't* know then you either end up seeing "total darkness" or you end up seeing "total blinding white-light"! and for humans, in that case, the "feedback" mechanism would include "changing the iris size", thus bringing the whole system back to within the range where the randomness is smack in the middle of the detection range.

            fasccinating, ehn? :) the even more fascinating thing is: *all* biological systems operate like this!

            "My first reaction was what a brilliant argument."

            mmm... i appreciate your sentiment: i feel that if you ask the right non-judgemental questions, the answers are genuinely self-evident. if you miss out any of the logical-reasoning steps in between, however, the answers are less than clear.

            "then every act of every physical entity in the physical universe would appear intelligent. That is, a change in definition makes everything willful."

            welll doooone :) however read very carefully what georgina kindly pointed out, that i missed the fact that *all* DNA is not intelligent: certainly not the experiments recently carried out by some scientists where they used DNA as a "data store" to encode (and then decode) a video, for example (yes, really! look it up!). there *really* is something very very important - the critical-instability feedback - that is fundamental to defining what intelligence really is.

            the characteristic which is present within a single electron and within a single neuron is that time-derivative "feedback" loop, resulting in both being capable of:

            (a) storing "state"

            (b) performing integration over time based on "state" and "input"

            (c) performing differentiation over time based on the same

            regardless of what the physical entity *is*, if those three characteristics are not present then the whole point of the essay is to state and emphasise that intelligence will *not* emerge. also, as a side-point (explored in more depth in dr hankey's work), if the feedback mechanisms are disrupted, the *capacity for intelligence is drastically reduced or is entirely destroyed*.

            "What does the theory say, if electrons' aims are in opposition to atom's aims, atom's aims are in opposition to that of the hosting molecule or to another atom in the same molecule, and so on at each level in hierarchy?"

            taking just the "electron's aims in opposition to atom's aims" part, that would indicate that someone's fired an electron at an atom using a particle accelerator, *completely* overcoming and overwhelming the atom's "aims" resulting in gamma radiation and other messy but ultimately beautiful patterns inimical to biological life (and the rest of the hierarchy).

            to whit: operating *outside* of the stability constraints at one level *massively* disrupts their ability to be part *of* one (otherwise anticipated) stable hierarchy... moving them to another level instead (such as inside of a star, where such hugely energetic reactions are everyday / everynanosecond occurrences as part of *that* hierarchy).

            whew, getting to be a long response... allow me the liberty of skipping question 1... :)

            "Second, why do I not feel that I am in opposition to the will of any organ in my body, or that I am resolving the issues among multitude of organs in my body."

            ha, veery good question! so tell me... have you never stayed up late at night, tired and irritable, then got ill for 2 days as a result, or eaten food that you *know* will get you into trouble, even though you *know*, from recent reports and scientific discoveries, that 75% of our immune system is actually in our intestines and that the wrong food or lack of sleep can disrupt the bacteria in our gut and make us ill?

            have you never pushed your body beyond its physical strength and pulled a muscle, even though you *know* that if you exercise without enough water our bodies pull water away from non-critical areas (such as brain and organs) and put it into muscles instead?

            have you not heard of breatharians, or the story of the old lady who took silicon (or some other supplement only 1 atomic number away from calcium) and stunned her doctors when her bones were shown in x-rays to have been completely healed of osteoporosis?

            yeah we damn well *do* over-ride our body's organs' "will" with our own, where most creatures in the animal kingdom listen very very carefully, and we suffer greatly as a result! you've heard stories of peoples' hair *literally* going white overnight as a result of deep shock, i'm sure.

            "I mean, what intelligent source in the universe is beating the acts of these entities to enforce increase in entropy?"

            ha! very very good question. i do cover this point, briefly (annoyed that i had to cut it short). ok, so let's set up a universe where there is a completely uniformly random distribution of atoms. BOOMF, immediately you get some huge explosions as the various atoms react very very badly with each other, lots of fireballs result, but then they implode, leaving vacuum behind, gravity takes over and you get stars, black holes, blah blah.

            random distribution started... total uniform distribution... infinite entropy at the beginning.... but VERY VERY QUICKLY entropy *DECREASES* (on average).

            straight out of the wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_(order_and_disorder):

            "Locally, the entropy can be lowered by external action. This applies to machines, such as a refrigerator, where the entropy in the cold chamber is being reduced, and to living organisms. This local decrease in entropy is, however, only possible at the expense of an entropy increase in the surroundings."

            in the case of outer space, stars and galaxies *deprive* space of the opportunity to create entropy-lowering "entities" by TOTALLY DEPRIVING SPACE OF RESOURCES.

            and that's really the point: entropy-lowering self-organising entities - at each level of the intelligence hierarchy - deprive their surrounding higher-entropy environment of the resources required to beat them.

            so it's actually really rather simple, and is the underpinning behind evolution. darwin missed the opportunity to make this clear and common knowledge because he was primarily a taxonomist and researcher.

            regarding the science-fiction concept of an electron demonstrating intelligence beyond its "station", that _would_ be fascinating but also, having read the "Turkey Lexicon to wannabe Sci-Fi writers" (look it up: it's hilarious) it would unfortunately not really be believable to the average modern sci-fi reader.

            a much *more* believable story would be if some Evil Scientists worked out how to place quantum-entangled electrons *stably* into orbit around atoms (qty 1 or more), then used that to "influence" or spy on people... but the external intelligence would be the minds of the "Evil Scientists" rather than in the actual electrons themselves.

            this potential story illustrates an important point, namely that the *system* has to include some agent beyond the scope of the electron itself in order to demonstrate intelligent behaviour beyond the scope of an "ordinary" electron. appealing as it might be for a single electron to gain intelligence beyond its station :)

            we know however that if an electron gains sufficient energy to go "beyond its station" and still have some form of electron-like properties, it also gains mass... and becomes a muon, not an electron.

            unfortunately we have to assume that sci-fi readers of today would be familiar with leptons etc. there *really are* some fundamental laws at work here, sadly, which prevent the sci-fi scenario from being plausible to the modern reader of today, rajiv :)

            lastly, i perfectly understand your reticence to provide a rating, but i am just grateful for your insights and questions which i have really enjoyed answering, helping as they do to emphasise and communicate more effectively.

            thank you rajiv.

            thank you domenico, wow, that's quite a committment to read every essay! greatly appreciated that you consider mine to be the most interesting.

            as i outlined to rajiv just now, purely applying a statistical analysis to a biological system operating at a critical instability point is not enough: you *have* to have a feedback mechanism (based on the statistical average) that lowers and raises the "threshold of detection / reaction" accordingly. osmosis in the case of cells, neural suppression and stimulation chemicals in the case of brains and so on.

            the call for self-censorship is not one that i expect to be heeded, simply because, if i am allowed to be truly blunt and honest, i do not have the confidence in the "Arrogantly-Artificial Intelligence" scientific community to comphrehend the nature of consciousness *in themselves*. the feedback mechanism which would allow them to *create* conscious machines is thus entirely missing, such that i would genuinely expect them, like the millionth monkey, to be just as likely to erase the experiment that resulted in machine-consciousness by virtue of them being *unable to test for and recognise its existence*!

            the warning is therefore for those scientists that *do* have a working definition of consciousness that they can clearly articulate to others. that's quite a small community at present. it's primarily to these people to whom my warning is directed. they don't have much time: elon musk has just announced his insane intent to create a working commercial neural lace. absolutely no mention WHATSOEVER of whether the operator will be permitted the right to modify the software in order to ensure their own survival and the absolute sovereign right to keep other people *literally* out of their own mind. unbelievable.

            Luke,

            I did follow the battle in the FQXi.org blog. I did not have a dog in the fight...and it was over my head. However, the battle was furious. I have not seen such emotions, expressed by grown up people with advanced degrees! And it went on and on and on and on. I do think Joy Christian was treated unfairly (no matter if he was right or wrong).....Come on guys it's just physics!

            Oh, and thanks for visiting my essay and your generous remarks.

            Don Limuti

            i'm a software libre advocate and developer, having run (or more accurately "provided opportunity, rules and resources for people to explore the space of collaborating on a goal") and every now and then you get a contributor that just defies both rational logical behaviour and disregards expected social rules.

            what i learned from interacting with such people is that they provide an opportunity for *you* to clarify your understanding of the subject matter that they are... shall we say... kindly "challenging". at some point, i learned that their ability to correctly identify differences between two data points is somehow deeply and pathologically flawed.

            in the case of the antagonist who caused joy's paper to be retracted *WITHOUT HIM BEING NOTIFIED*, it is well-known in the scientific community that this particular antagonist is incapable of simple O-Level math. even i know about commutativity and that signs matter!

            so whilst you may be capable of discerning, clarifying and identifying the point where the antagonistic individual has got "hung up

            eek what happened? what i wrote got cut off! oh well, the point _mostly_ got made... :)

            Dear Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton,

            Having read your essay I now know why you are so enthusiastic about mine!

            We differ primarily in terminology. If you review the definitions I begin my essay with, you will find that consciousness, defined as awareness plus volition, is essentially 'content free'. When one adds logical structure (always reducible to ANDs and NOTs) one can obtain specific structural physical reality of some sort, and if such structure is dynamic, then the consciousness field can couple to it and this constitutes intelligence. [You might read my response to Natesh Ganesh on my page at Mar 24 @05:10 GMT].

            If, further, one postulates that physical reality of the particles derives from the "condensed" field, then it is probably appropriate to speak of the consciousness field as "Creative Intelligence". You capture the essence of this when you say:

            "...no sentient being is intelligent. We - and our minds - are merely riding on the back of [I would say "embedded in"] an inherent and fundamental property and characteristic substrate known as "The Universe": the "Field" [the consciousness field] of "Creative Intelligence". We are literally borrowing its capacity to support thought"

            You have stated this as well as it can be stated.

            The substrate is the field itself. I prefer not to state more specifics until I can back them up. And I feel closer to being able to back them up, but as you note: "100% certainty is a pathological state of mind."

            The discontinuity for me was, after decades of trying to understand consciousness, when I decided (almost 100% !) that it was a field, and asked myself how it could interact with matter. I raise my arm against gravity. How does 'consciousness' make that happen? After postulating how the field physically couples to matter, things started falling into place, and have continued to do so for the last decade. I do not believe one can mathematically represent awareness (except as an iterative feedback loop that oversimplifies and really misses the point of what awareness "is") but I do believe that one can mathematically describe the interaction or coupling of the field to matter [ideally viewed as particulate 'condensation' of the field].

            Luke, you have far too much info in your essay to respond to in a comment, but I would say your instinct, your intuition, your understanding is essentially correct [or at least agrees with me!]. Thank you for writing and submitting it.

            My very best wishes,

            Edwin Eugene Klingman