Essay Abstract

If "fundamental" means something that is at the root of everything, then the physical laws and the objects to which they apply seem to be fundamental. But by looking at the mathematical structure of various theories in physics, we see that "fundamentalness" is relative, revealing a holistic nature. Various types of holism also appear in quantum theory, in Bohm's idea of implicate order, and in the holographic principle. This essay goes beyond these, by proposing a type of fundamentalness as a mathematically consistent basis for these forms of holism, the physical laws, and the ontology of physics. The discussion is based on various examples from particle physics and its mathematical formulation, and implications to what is "fundamental" are analyzed.

Author Bio

Theoretical physicist. Research interests: foundations of physics, gauge theory, foundations of quantum mechanics, singularities in general relativity. Interested especially in the geometric aspects of the physical laws. ArXiv: http://arxiv.org/a/stoica_o_1 Blog: http://www.unitaryflow.com/

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Hi Christi, You are making some interesting points (no pun intended) on a very fundamental discussion of points, lines, geometric structures, etc... You then jump into standard physics, theories and equations... Is there a place in your thinking where a line (of points) comes to possess the property of distance? Is distance something you take for granted in your theory? Would this play a role in developing your model?

    Hi Scott,

    Distance is always there. In Hilbert's axiomatization of the 3D space the first 12 axioms are about incidence and order, and distance is only mentioned in the 13th axiom. But this doesn't mean that the Euclidean space goes through some phases and only in the 13th phase starts having distances. All axioms work together in no preferred order. Only in our thinking we can unfold the logic and prove many theorems in geometry before discussing distances, but as I explained, we can also start by first discussing distances. This shows a relativistic perspective on what is fundamental in a mathematical structure in general. Similarly, distance is always there in physics, even though in general relativity it is dynamic, and at the big bang it may be 0. Distance is always there in the holomorphic perspective I propose too, since it is based on geometric algebra, and implicitly on distance.

    Best wishes,

    Cristi

    Christinel,

    This is an excellent essay. Parts of it go beyond my ability to fully understand but I do get the general idea. I am a believer in quaternions as the basis for Physics so I am able generally to follow your arguments.

    The discussion of the various types of geometries was very instructive. I have never heard of some of the systems you mention. Yet they all seem to be equivalent. Once you define what is fundamental, the axioms and theorems then develop.

    The notion that all the information of the universe could be encoded at each point of the universe is profound. It is more than I can wrap my mind around. Perhaps I should stick with tic-tac-toe?

    Equation 1 simply looks like multiplication of a pair of vectors to me. That is the opposite of the sum of the dot product and the cross product.

    Regarding Equation 2 (Dirac Operator), is the function f a vector? If so, then is d/dx in the k direction and d/dy in the j direction?

    You lose me when you get to the discussion of the standard model. Allow me to ask a question though ... can that vast menagerie of particles actually be fundamental? And how can something be fundamental if it is not stable? Surely the thing to which these particles decay must be fundamental instead?

    All in all, an excellent essay. Many thanks.

    Best Regards,

    Gary Simpson

      Gary,

      Thanks for the interest in my essay, and for the questions, which give me the opportunity to give some details, for you and others who may be interested.

      > I am a believer in quaternions as the basis for Physics so I am able generally to follow your arguments.

      Yes, quaternions appear more than we normally see in the usual formulations of physics. The Clifford algebras admit matrix representations in terms of real, complex, or quaternionic numbers (see this wiki page).

      The Clifford algebra of a real n-dimensional vector space endowed with a metric (or scalar product or inner product) whose diagonal form is (+1,...,+1,-1,...,-1), where +1 occurs r times and -1 occurs s times, and r+s=n, is denoted by Clr,s. In all cases the representations are 2qx2q matrices, with elements from R, C, or H. The number q is determined so that the total real dimension of the matrix algebra is 2qx2q x dim K = 2n, where K = R, C, or H.

      In particular, the Clifford algebra of the three dimensional Euclidean space is isomorphic with the 2x2 complex matrices, but also with the complex quaternion algebra, that is, quaternions a+bi+cj+dk, where a,b,c,d are complex (the complex imaginary unit i' is different than the quaternion i). For the Minkowski metric (+1,-1,-1,-1), the Clifford algebra Cl1,3 is represented by the 2x2 matrix algebra of quaternions. Dirac matrices are actually complex, because he worked with the complexified of Cl1,3, but there is a change of basis which puts them in quaternionic form, where each quaternion element of the matrix is represented by a 2x2 complex matrix.

      > The notion that all the information of the universe could be encoded at each point of the universe is profound. It is more than I can wrap my mind around.

      An analytic function is one that can be expressed as a power series, like

      [math]f(x) = f(a) + frac{f'(a)}{1!}(x-a) + frac{f''(a)}{2!}(x-a)^2 + frac{f'''(a)}{3!}(x-a)^3 +... [/math]

      You see that if you know f(a) and all of its derivatives f'(a), f''(a) etc, you can find f(x) for any x. So all information about the function f is contained at a, in f(a), f'(a), f''(a) etc. It is also possible for a function of more variables, like f(x,y,z,t), or for a field, to be analytic like this, in which case you will need all partial derivatives at that point.

      In physics, fields satisfy systems of partial differential equations, whose coefficients are usually constant. They have analytic solutions, if the initial conditions are analytic too. If they are not, then the solutions are not analytic. The holomorphic functions I mention are also analytic, but they are always like this, once they satisfy the Cauchy-Riemann equations. So this is a big difference, since there are no non-analytic solutions for the Cauchy-Riemann equations.

      > Equation 1 simply looks like multiplication of a pair of vectors to me. That is the opposite of the sum of the dot product and the cross product.

      It is a multiplication of a pair of vectors, made of their scalar product a·b and their exterior product a∧b. But by associativity, this can be extended to all multivectors of the Clifford algebra. The exterior product is not a vector, and the scalar product is, of course, a number. But they combine together into an algebra, which is the Clifford algebra. In the matrix representation, the scalar is represented by a number multiplied with the identity matrix. So all these are represented as matrices of the same dimension.

      > Regarding Equation 2 (Dirac Operator), is the function f a vector? If so, then is d/dx in the k direction and d/dy in the j direction?

      Yes. Here I am talking about a 2-dimensional space V whose metric is diagonalized to (-1,-1). Its Clifford algebra is Cl0,2, and its matrix representation is just 1x1 matrices of quaternions (see this wiki page). The basis of the vector space V is given by two vectors, which can be chosen to be the quaternions j and k. So a vector (x,y) can be written as xj+yk. The exterior product j∧k is just the third quaternion, i. This i acts on the basis j,k by rotating it with 90 degrees. So you are right, d/dx is in the k direction and d/dy in the j direction. And if we take f(x,y) to have values in V, f(x,y)=fx(x,y)j + fy(x,y) k, and equation (2) is just the Cauchy-Riemann equations. But xj+yk is not a complex number, so how you identify f(x,y) with a complex function f(z), where z=x+iy? We notice that xj+yk=(x+iy)j. This is because the vector space, even if it is complex vector space, it doesn't have preferred real and imaginary parts. Real and imaginary parts make sense for complex numbers, but this is a complex vector space, so you have to choose which direction is its imaginary one, similar to how you choose in a 1 dimensional real vector space which vector corresponds to +1 and which to -1.

      We can also take f(x,y) of the form f(x,y)=f0 + f1 i, and equation (2) gives the Cauchy-Riemann equations in this case too.

      > You lose me when you get to the discussion of the standard model. Allow me to ask a question though ... can that vast menagerie of particles actually be fundamental? And how can something be fundamental if it is not stable? Surely the thing to which these particles decay must be fundamental instead?

      Only the leptons (electron, muon, taon and their neutrinos), quarks, exchange bosons and the Higgs boson are considered to be fundamental, and I will explain why. A fundamental particle can decay, for example a u quark can decay into a d quark (which is lighter) and a W+ boson, which in turn can decay into a positron and a neutrino. But the u quark is still fundamental, because it is not actually made of a d quark and a W+ boson. This notion of "fundamental" came from the idea of using symmetries to classify particles. Wigner and Bargmann did this, considering the spacetime flat (Minkowski), and taking as internal degrees of freedom only the spin, but this can be extended to charges, colors, weak isospin etc.

      So here is the idea of Wigner and Bargmann. They knew from quantum mechanics that the wavefunction of a particle has to have its squared amplitude integrable to 1 over the entire space. Its evolution should preserve this property. But also any rotation or translation or Lorentz boost of a wavefunction should change it into a wavefunction which has the same property. So they wanted to represent the spacetime symmetries, given by the PoincarГ© transformation, by unitary or antiunitary transformations of the wavefunction, so that the squared amplitude is preserved under these transformations. They gave a theorem which states that transformations representing the PoincarГ© group transform the wavefunctions by unitary or antiunitary transformations only if they are spinors, of various spins, 0, 1/2, 1, 3/2 etc. So they classified the particles by using the representations of the PoincarГ© group like this. In fact, these are representations not of the PoincarГ© group (translations and Lorentz transformations), but of the group made of translations and the spin group SL(2,C), which is a double cover of the (proper orthochronous) Lorentz group. To include time and space inversions we have to add a conjugate representation of the spin group, and this is how we get the Dirac spinors. The spinors they obtained are spinor fields, so they depend on (x,y,z,t). But composite particles depend on (x,y,z,t) more than once, and are reducible. Only the irreducible representations correspond to elementary particles, not made of other particles.

      The hundreds of mesons and barions are not elementary, being made of quarks and antiquarks.

      Should these many elementary particles be considered fundamental? I would say that the quantum fields are "more fundamental".

      In the model I proposed and which you mention, all leptons and quarks of a generation are just parts of a field with values in that Clifford algebra. When you represent this in the matrix form I shown at page 8 in the essay, you see there the electron, neutrino, and up and down quarks of all their colors, and their antiparticles. Their various discrete charges are there, and also the exchange bosons, arising from the symmetries of this algebra. And the space where the Higgs lives is there too. I have to do more work to fit three families of leptons and quarks, and also gravity.

      Best regards,

      Cristi

      There is a problem with rendering an equation in my previous comment. Let me give a link.

      That is my point - I do not think that distance was always there... I think that distance also had to be created especially considering the fact that there are three independent distance directions (dimensions) in our spacetime with no reason as to why...

      Consider reading my essay and see if you think distance should just be a given as it has always been considered

      "A major question is why these particular gauge symmetries and representations?" What is a major clue to answering the preceding question? In the list of references for "Indra's Net - Holomorphic Fundamentalness" there is no mention of Milgrom, Kroupa, or McGaugh. I say that Milgrom is the Kepler of contemporary cosmology -- on the basis of overwhelming empirical evidence. Google "witten milgrom", "kroupa milgrom", and "mcgaugh milgrom".

        Hi David,

        My remark "A major question is why these particular gauge symmetries and representations?" refers to the pattern of fundamental particles. Milgrom's MOND is about the rotation of galaxies, so how can it be relevant to that question? Especially since MOND, as opposed to various "dark matter" proposals, doesn't claim to require new fundamental particles, being based on modifying gravity alone.

        Nevertheless, MOND is important, but my essay was not about this, you will not find the words "dark matter" or "rotations of galaxies" in it, so I don't think I was being unjust to Milgrom. My essay is about what "fundamental" means.

        When we talk about fundamental laws, I think the focus should be on fundamental principles, rather than on approximations and phenomenology. Newton's gravity is an approximation, and so is a modification of Newton's gravity like MOND. A fundamental theory should in particular be generally covariant. But I have good news for Milgrom: there is a generally covariant modification of Einstein's gravity - conformal gravity - which apparently gives as a limit case Milgrom's. I mention conformal gravity for its salient features regarding the Standard Model of particle physics in the endnote #6, but it is also relevant to MOND. So if the final theory will embed conformal symmetry, MOND or something close to MOND will be an approximation of it.

        Best regards,

        Cristi

        A possibility is that distance appeared from a kind of symmetry breaking. For example in a theory where spacetime is a manifold, but the structure group of the tangent bundle is GL(4,R), and it is broken to SO(1,3) by some mechanism. Another possibility is conformal gravity, where you have scale invariance, so angles are invariant, but not the lengths. Note that the Standard Model without masses is conformally invariant. And then the conformal symmetry in conformal gravity is broken to SO(1,3) by some geometric mechanism, which formally is identical to Higgs and endows some of the particles with masses just like in the Standard Model. So yes, it is possible.

        It appears that in effect you have CL(3,3) ~ SL(3,C) or U(8) in a Clifford basis. You can break this into SU(3) and SO(3,1). I have similar ideas with SU(2,2) and the occurrence of additional quarks as dark matter.

          Hi Lawrence,

          More precisely, Cl(3,3) is the complex Clifford algebra of a complex 6D space V. The space V can be decomposed as the direct sum of two complex 3D isotropic spaces, which form a Witt decomposition, and we consider them fixed. The transformations of Cl(3,3) preserving this decomposition give the SU(3)xU(1), where U(1) is for electromagnetism. They act by permuting the 8 ideals of Cl(3,3) according to the correct representations of SU(3). On these ideals, the Dirac algebra acts at left in a reducible way, which give room for SU(2) to act as well at left. So the ideals are the spinor spaces for quarks and leptons, and they transform according to the Standard Model group, with the proper representations built in.

          I'm also interested in SU(2,2) and how you used it.

          Best regards,

          Cristi

          SL(3, C) is SU(3) in a tensor product with an 8 dimensional space, or 8 real dimension = 4 complex dimensions. So we can think of this as spinorial or complex valued spacetime with SU(3) principal bundle. The 8 dimensional space is represented only by the trace of a Hermitian matrix or its metric. You then have exp(iS) for S = ∫ds and ds the Gaussian interval. There are three copies of sl(2,C) in the group sl(3,C) which corresponds to three weights or the vector space (e_1, e_2, e_3, f_1, f_2, f_3) which are the 6 dimensional space you talk about.

          I thought I would mention that the conformal diagram you have of the black hole represents one possible slicing. I can slice spatial surfaces any way that I want. I can arrange it that spatial surfaces reach the singularity inside the black hole before they reach i^+ or I^в€ћ. The slicing and how the surfaces reach r = 0 is arbitrary.

          LC

          That's interesting, considering that sl(3,C) has 16 real dimensions, and the Clifford algebra Cl(3,3,C) I used has 64 complex dimensions, and its full spinors have 8 complex dimensions.

          About the black hole singularity, are you referring to this one? Slicing is not unique, of course, that's true in all solutions in general relativity, but the things are not as flexible how you may think. What matters is the atlas, not the particular solution, and the atlas has no preferred slicing. My Schwarzschild solution is analytic and is continued analytically through the singularity, and it remains so even if you apply an analytic change of coordinates and get a different slicing. Moreover, in the paper I find an infinite family of different Schwarzschild solutions analytic at the singularity, and in fact an infinite family of such atlases. But among them there is a unique one which saves the fields at singularity both geometrically and physically in the way I describe here.

          Best regards,

          Cristi

          I was referring to the attached file which appears on your website. The succession of spatial surfaces can appear in any possible way. How I push time forwards is a sort of gauge freedom. I can choose to have the spatial surface slap onto the singularity simultaneous with the disappearance of the black hole as seen outside. this would correspond to the interior observer being coincident with all the Hawking radiation emitted by the black hole. Your figure, which has a bit of an apparent discontinuity at the horizon, has the spatial surface coincident with the singularity as the exterior region reaches I^.

          We then consider this in the light of quantum states on the spatial surface. In your case quantum states on the interior are entangled with Hawking radiation reaching I^. In the case the spatial surface reaches the singularity coincident with the demolition of the black hole as seen in the exterior region entangles interior states with local states. This is curiously similar to what Susskind argues with ER = EPR. The entanglement of Hawking radiation with the interior and later Hawking radiation with the distant I^ are relative, or that in effect interior states are identical to distant Hawking states.

          I think this is a sort of bundle monodromy. The singularity is just a way that a complementary principle is manifested topologically.

          The 16 dimensions of the SL(3,C) is the SU(3) on the 8 dimensional manifold. With the CL(3,3,C) in 64 dimensions ~ U(8) the 8 complex dimensions tied to SL(3,C) in some way.

          Cheers LCAttachment #1: unitary_evaporating_black_hole.gif

          Hi Lawrence. Oh, you mean that animated gif I made back in 2010. Yes, it requires a special slicing of spacetime, and has some other problems which I described here and here. For those reasons I was not satisfied and not interested to write a paper about it, because I wanted something without those problems. The solution I was satisfied with came a year later. I wrote this year about the one from 2010 on my blog, because I saw Maudlin's paper, who rediscovered it independently. Then I showed him my gif and he is using it. He may be satisfied with that solution, but I'm not and was not from the beginning. I find your remarks and the connection with ER=EPR interesting, you may want to send them to Maudlin.

          Best regards,

          Cristi

          7 days later
          • [deleted]

          Hi Cristinel, I enjoyed your essay when I got into it, rather than just taking a quick look. It is full of interesting ideas that you have clearly explained. I think the question you ponder, about whether fundamental is most foundational; And how foundational should be considered when seeking the fundamental, is good. It seems to me that though material things ultimately reduce to far simpler things, maybe it isn't that 'material essence','quark stuff' and maybe even still potentially differentiate-able existence within that (not yet known), which is (at least by itself) fundamental. In the sense of the 'vital ingredient" in allowing or providing the means for the happening of physics. Or that which is causal for the majority of physics. You are talking about the particles themselves as fields whereas I have been thinking about the matter being differentiated from the ubiquitous existence and there also being fields within that. Affected by and affecting the matter and fermion particles.

          Another section that particularly resonated with me was that about the number of particles of the standard model. It was a subject I had thought of writing about. As I wonder whether all of them exist naturally. As for some, they have been observed (or evidence of them has been observed) under extreme conditions. Which makes me think that they have come into being because of those conditions. There is perhaps also a desire to have a particle for 'everything'. I was thinking about perhaps irreverently comparing the classification to the deities of Terry Pratchett's Discworld. Two I found in particular are Anoia, the goddess of things that get stuck in drawers and Nuggan, in charge of paperclips. (Never mind if it seems irrelevant, it amuses me.)

          Getting to Indra's net at the end, mind already boggled, I thought it was fascinating, and bizarre, not as I see it, the way forward. Though it was an incredible journey and I'm grateful for that. Well done. Kind regards Georgina

          Hi Cristinel, I enjoyed your essay when I got into it, rather than just taking a quick look. It is full of interesting ideas that you have clearly explained. I think the question you ponder, about whether fundamental is most foundational; And how foundational should be considered when seeking the fundamental, is good. It seems to me that though material things ultimately reduce to far simpler things, maybe it isn't that 'material essence','quark stuff' and maybe even still potentially differentiate-able existence within that (not yet known), which is (at least by itself) fundamental. In the sense of the 'vital ingredient" in allowing or providing the means for the happening of physics. Or that which is causal for the majority of physics. You are talking about the particles themselves as fields whereas I have been thinking about the matter being differentiated from the ubiquitous existence and there also being fields within that. Affected by and affecting the matter and fermion particles.

          Another section that particularly resonated with me was that about the number of particles of the standard model. It was a subject I had thought of writing about. As I wonder whether all of them exist naturally. As for some, they have been observed (or evidence of them has been observed) under extreme conditions. Which makes me think that they have come into being because of those conditions. There is perhaps also a desire to have a particle for 'everything'. I was thinking about perhaps irreverently comparing the classification to the deities of Terry Pratchett's Discworld. Two I found in particular are Anoia, the goddess of things that get stuck in drawers and Nuggan, in charge of paperclips. (Never mind if it seems irrelevant, it amuses me.)

          Getting to Indra's net at the end, mind already boggled, I thought it was fascinating, and bizarre, not as I see it, the way forward. Though it was an incredible journey and I'm grateful for that. Well done. Kind regards Georgina

            Hi Georgina,

            Thank you for going into my essay, and for sending me your thoughts. I hope you'll write your ideas in an essay for this edition. Also your idea to compare the classification of particles with the deities of Terry Pratchett's Discworld is nice, I think it would be fun if you write about it :) About what's truly fundamental, who knows, many descriptions seem to work partially, to be equivalent sometimes, but I think we know very little and we need fresh ideas.

            Best wishes,

            Cristi

            Hi Cristinel, I have just found out about the origin of 'Indra's' net. I didn't realize 7 was a footnote but thought it was just a reference. Having read the footnote I understand what Indra's net is and why you have chosen to propose it as a model of fundamental physics, tying in with recent ideas in physics about the holographic principle. I really like Francis H Cook's description. "we will discover that in its polished surface there are reflected all the other jewels in the net, infinite in number. Not only that, but each of the jewels reflected in this one jewel is also reflecting all the other jewels". It sounds beautiful. I agree that it is good to explore fresh ideas. My reservation -but what problems does it solve? In what way is it an improvement over other explanations? Plus, of course, personal bias in favour of my own explanatory framework.