Dear Hans,

Thank you very much for your comments. I appreciate quantum logic and the efforts of von Neumann and Birkhoff, and your description is most welcomed. However, I don't feel the need to include it in the discussions of foundations of quantum mechanics, not because they are wrong, they aren't, and neither because they it is not important. Quantum logic is simply a different way to formulate quantum mechanics. I don't think my arguments miss something by not including it in this limited essay about foundations :) You can take any paper or essay and say that maybe they should've cite some important work or another, so what, it has to be a reason to include it. I wish you success with your essay at this contest, I added on my to read list.

Best regards,

Cristi

Dear Diogenes,

Thank you for your comments and for your suggestions. I wish you good luck with your essay!

Cristi

Dear Francesco,

> it would pose the scary idea of the infinite in your model, with all its paradoxes - but I think that to manage with infinite is a necessary task. I suppose that you consider an infinitesimal unit different from zero.

I am not aware of any problems with the continuum in mathematics. If you mean Zeno's paradox, this was solved since antiquity, and modern mathematical analysis doesn't have such problems. I know some people claim they have them. Even Rovelli (and I would say I agree with him that the world is relational, and LQG quite a smart thing), in his book "Reality is not what it seems". He spends the entire book claiming that the continuum has problems, like Zeno's paradox, without discussing the solutions, which actually are known for long time. I mean, take the arrow paradox, it is not ok to say that space has to be divided, but avoid dividing also the time :). And that book has other arguments which simply are not true, like the one with Schrodinger's atom, which by the way, works because of continuum. It is funny because even in Loop Quantum Gravity they sum over all the discrete spin networks and take the continuum limit, but he mentions this only in a brief paragraph in the book. In fact I discussed this with Ashtekar, and he clearly endorsed both the continuum view, and a continuous spacetime on which loops or spin networks live. Also see this talk and the questions from the audience and his answers.

Yes, in physics there are two major problems of infinities: singularities in general relativity, and the infinities you get in quantum field theory and especially quantum gravity if you do the calculations perturbatively. Singularities in general relativity are due in fact not to the theory, but to the way we wrote the equations, see Did God Divide by Zero? and the references in the essay to my papers in which I show this rigorously. The infinity in quantum theory are due to the fact that the best method currently known to physicists to do the calculations is perturbative expansion, which is not defined mathematically. So I think the universe doesn't do its calculations like this :) But if we insist to do it like this, then we should treat the particles as singularities as I explained in the papers I mention, and you get rid of infinities in the quantum case too (see this article).

I don't claim that the world is not discrete, maybe it is. But I don't know of a discrete theory that does the job even remotely close to our continuum theories. The only reason they are researched is because they can be used to cut-of those infinities, but they are because of our methods, not because of continuum.

> if we include the possibility of different mathematics and/or logics, why don't suppose an infinite range of them?

I don't say that all of them describe our universe. Only one mathematical structure, in fact the equivalence class of all mathematical structures isomorphic to this one. The others may describe other universes a la Tegmark. If our universe is described by an infinite range of theories which are not isomorphic, then they are approximations that converge to the correct one.

Best regards,

Cristi

Dear Cristi,

> I am not aware of any problems with the continuum in mathematics.

As far as I know, I agree with what you say about Rovelli and mathematic. I was talking about possibile paradoxes when the infinite is applied to physics, but I can't say if they are solvable or not, since I've no preparation in the matter. It just happens that the infinite leads to some very counter intuitive situations if applied to the physical world, like the Hilbert's hotel, or infinitesimal length of time or space (are they zeros?) - but counter intuitive doesn't mean false.

> I don't say that all of them describe our universe. Only one mathematical structure, in fact the equivalence class of all mathematical structures isomorphic to this one. The others may describe other universes a la Tegmark. If our universe is described by an infinite range of theories which are not isomorphic, then they are approximations that converge to the correct one.

I understand and agree :)

Dear Cristinel Stoica

"This essay goes beyond these, by proposing a type of fundamentalness as a mathematically consistent basis for these forms of holism, the physical laws, and the ontology of physics." Your imagination is wonderful using Indra's Net and connecting Holomorphic Fundamentalness dear Cristinel Stoica..................... very nice idea.... I highly appreciate your essay and hope for reciprocity.

I request you please spend some of the valuable time on Dynamic Universe Model also and give your some of the valuable & esteemed guidance

Some of the Main foundational points of Dynamic Universe Model :

-No Isotropy

-No Homogeneity

-No Space-time continuum

-Non-uniform density of matter, universe is lumpy

-No singularities

-No collisions between bodies

-No blackholes

-No warm holes

-No Bigbang

-No repulsion between distant Galaxies

-Non-empty Universe

-No imaginary or negative time axis

-No imaginary X, Y, Z axes

-No differential and Integral Equations mathematically

-No General Relativity and Model does not reduce to GR on any condition

-No Creation of matter like Bigbang or steady-state models

-No many mini Bigbangs

-No Missing Mass / Dark matter

-No Dark energy

-No Bigbang generated CMB detected

-No Multi-verses

Here:

-Accelerating Expanding universe with 33% Blue shifted Galaxies

-Newton's Gravitation law works everywhere in the same way

-All bodies dynamically moving

-All bodies move in dynamic Equilibrium

-Closed universe model no light or bodies will go away from universe

-Single Universe no baby universes

-Time is linear as observed on earth, moving forward only

-Independent x,y,z coordinate axes and Time axis no interdependencies between axes..

-UGF (Universal Gravitational Force) calculated on every point-mass

-Tensors (Linear) used for giving UNIQUE solutions for each time step

-Uses everyday physics as achievable by engineering

-21000 linear equations are used in an Excel sheet

-Computerized calculations uses 16 decimal digit accuracy

-Data mining and data warehousing techniques are used for data extraction from large amounts of data.

- Many predictions of Dynamic Universe Model came true....Have a look at

http://vaksdynamicuniversemodel.blogspot.in/p/blog-page_15.html

I request you to please have a look at my essay also, and give some of your esteemed criticism for your information........

Dynamic Universe Model says that the energy in the form of electromagnetic radiation passing grazingly near any gravitating mass changes its in frequency and finally will convert into neutrinos (mass). We all know that there is no experiment or quest in this direction. Energy conversion happens from mass to energy with the famous E=mC2, the other side of this conversion was not thought off. This is a new fundamental prediction by Dynamic Universe Model, a foundational quest in the area of Astrophysics and Cosmology.

In accordance with Dynamic Universe Model frequency shift happens on both the sides of spectrum when any electromagnetic radiation passes grazingly near gravitating mass. With this new verification, we will open a new frontier that will unlock a way for formation of the basis for continual Nucleosynthesis (continuous formation of elements) in our Universe. Amount of frequency shift will depend on relative velocity difference. All the papers of author can be downloaded from "http://vaksdynamicuniversemodel.blogspot.in/ "

I request you to please post your reply in my essay also, so that I can get an intimation that you replied

Best

=snp

Hi Christi,

Thanks for your kind comments on mine, and informing me that my post above has gone! It was posted on the 18th but I don't have a copy. I've mailed Brendan (also noting the problem with time at the top of each essay - we've slipped back a year!)

I have yours down for a high score but recall I had some questions. I'll check it again if needed & revert.

You didn't seem to notice or comment on the main important new finding in my essay, but I don't know how up on QM you are. I hope you read Declan Trail's short essay with the computer code alongside it.

Very Best

Peter

    Hi Peter,

    > but recall I had some questions

    Not in your comment

    > You didn't seem to notice or comment on the main important new finding in my essay, but I don't know how up on QM you are.

    Don't take this personally, I gave up discussing here proposals of "fixing" quantum mechanics by making it classical years ago. Let's just say we disagree.

    Best,

    Cristi

    About revolutionizing Physics

    The FQXi contests provide some topics to discuss which I always find interesting, and I like to engage in exchanges about the main theme. Every time the contest is announced, a warning like the following is made "While this topic is broad, successful essays will not use this breadth as an excuse to shoehorn in the author's pet topic, but will rather keep as their central focus the theme of the contest." But one of the central attractions of this contest are everyone's foundational views, particularly those pet theories. And I agree that the rule is not to avoid them, but to focus on the theme, so if your pet topic is relevant to addressing the questions of the contest, then of course it should be there. I do this, in my essays I talk about my work, as long as it is relevant to the topic. Otherwise I prefer the standard platforms, which are publishing peer reviewed articles, and attending conferences.

    There are some recurrent such "pet topics" though, which usually don't find their way in good peer reviewed journals and conferences. They usually deal with disproofs of the theory of relativity, or of essential aspects of quantum mechanics. These theories are considered well-verified and solid by most physicists, so this is why they don't spend time indefinitely discussing them. It is not that they are brainwashed, it is just that they spend much more time with these theories, they know how well are tested, they did countless times the mathematics, and they know how well they explain the world from a small number of basic assumptions.

    I am a strong supporter of the idea that we should come back from time to time to question each of the basic assumptions of our theories, but at the same time we can't discuss the same arguments over and over, we also need to advance. To be more specific, I confess that as a kid, when I first read about relativity and quantum mechanics, I was very shocked, and I tried to find a more acceptable explanation for both of them. I turned them upside down in many ways, trying to figure out how I can get the same experimental results out of less shocking or less counterintuitive principles. I'm not ashamed of it, in fact I recommend it to be done by every future researcher. I consider that one should question everything. Of course, this is not feasible nowadays, because there's so much to learn, and if you want to do research, you need to progress very quickly with your understanding. But I still think it is necessary to start by questioning everything, and you should never stop.

    Now here is a trap though, because sometimes you get caught in a loop in this process. You may end out spending your entire life trying to disprove "mainstream" physics, motivated by a wrong vision. To get out of this circle, you need to question not only the standard assumptions, but also your own. But it is tempting not to do this, because what could be more gratifying than disproving Einstein or at least quantum mechanics? People endowed with brilliant minds, with great critical thinking when dealing with other areas where they didn't bet as much, can get caught in this trap. I won't say they should do something better, because I consider as fundamental ethical principle that everyone should be allowed to have their best experiences, and working at really important things is one of them.

    I had my share of such discussions of the foundations, where I was in the position to play the role of the "defender of the status-quo". Actually I didn't see myself like this, I was under the impression that we discuss honestly about some ideas, no matter how well-established they are considered. So I tried to explain why relativity works, why quantum mechanics is as it is and is not classical. Let me make a parallel: imagine you invented a mechanical device that would give you energy for free, by spinning forever. You know you can't discuss this with physicists, because they would say that the energy is conserved, period. And they are right. But I also know that by trying to explain why various perpetual motion devices didn't work, sometimes in the history we arrived at better understanding of physics. They still didn't work, but at least there was a gain. So I used to allow myself to engage in such discussions, in the idea that I can help a person escape this prison, and learn something in the process. But it was pointless, there was never a gain. And when people try to refute Bell's theorem the things are even clearer. While we can still imagine the possibility that energy is violated, considering that our theories are an approximation of the true physics, with Bell's theorem the things are different. Because Bell's theorem is a theorem. Trying to refute it is like trying to find in Euclidean geometry a right triangle which violates Pythagoras's theorem. It is simply impossible. Now, I'm not quantum police to try to show everyone's how illegal is to violate a theorem, but I just no longer want to be part of such discussions, because I have limited time. And I saw tons of disproofs of special relativity and Bell's theorem. A recurrent disproof is to take a very special setup, where Alice and Bob measure the spin along the same axis, and to assume that the two entangled particles have some definite opposite spin directions, not perpendicular to the direction along which Alice and Bob measure, and that instead of Born's rule each spin simply projects to the axis in 3D. To anyone who studied EPR and Bell's theorem is obvious that in this case you get the same result as in classical physics, because it is exactly classical. The real problem, usually not mentioned, is the general case. So limiting to this case doesn't solve the problem, no matter how fancy graphics one makes using a modification of a script I wrote in 2011.

    Bell's theorem has a hypothesis, consisting of two assumptions, and a conclusion. The conclusion is an inequality, which is satisfied in classical physics, but not in quantum mechanics. Since our universe is quantum, it means that one of the two assumptions is wrong. The two assumptions are (1) all interactions are local, and (2) the initial conditions of the systems in this game are statistically independent. It is a widespread opinion that condition (1) is violated by nature, but it is also possible that (2) or both are actually violated. So while there are still many quantum theorists who claim it makes no sense to discuss what happens with a particle between measurements, some of us want to know. And if you want to know, you have to choose what to sacrifice, (1) or (2), but it is not possible to save both. Just like it is impossible to have in Euclidean geometry a triangle which violates Pythagoras's theorem, and to maintain that the triangle has a right angle.

    The guy with the perpetual motion device may insist that it works, and when proven it doesn't, he may think that he can change this or that and still make it work. Many discussions I've had so far about relativity and quantum mechanics were just like this, as being caught in a loop. This is why I decided years ago to no longer engage in such discussions, with the risk of missing the opportunity to witness the birth of a new revolution in physics. I'd rather spend my time with my own pet theories :) In the foundations of quantum mechanics, I prefer to keep (1) as true, and sacrifice (2) (1, 2, 3, 4, 5).

    As for the contest, I see that some essays feature such ideas, and I think it is a good place to discuss them, but I prefer to focus on the part related to the current topic in my feedback, and to evaluate them solely by this.

    Success to everyone in this contest, and may we all have enlightening exchanges of ideas!

    Cristi

    Dear Cristi,

    Once again, you wrote a remarkable, original and entertaining Essay. Congrats!

    Here are some comments:

    1) I did not know the game called number scrabble. It is the clever version of a game that we call "Tris" here in Italy. I will try to play it with my son (who is developing a mathematical mind) in next future.

    2) I see that you referred to the arXiv version of your paper "The Standard Model Algebra"(which is the basis of your proposal of holomorphic unification). I downloaded it and I have seen that it is a strong work. Are you planning to publish it in some journal?

    3) Concerning the open questions of your model, in general, I do not like the idea of extra dimensions. Instead, it will be intriguing if the complex 6-dimensional vector space really arises from from the geometry of space-time. In that case, I feel that he could really be connected with a geometric unification of the Standard Model with gravity and with gravity quantization.

    4) Finally, I find the metaphor of Indra's net very elegant, as well as your whole Essay.

    Congrats again and good luck in the Contest.

    Cheers, Ch.

      Dear Christian,

      Thank you very much for your very kind comments, and for the really relevant questions. I loved very much your essay as well. About your questions:

      (2) Currently is under evaluation at AACA, which is specialized in Clifford algebras. I submitted previously at some of the top particle physics journals, but it was rejected without review, because "it is too mathematical for our profile" or simply "it doesn't fit our target audience". I've got only one review, which was positive (but the editor rejected it anyway), and the reviewer suggested that my manuscript will be better understood if I submit it to AACA, and if I can present it at a conference they had last summer. I was lucky to get accepted even though the deadline was a few weeks before. I've got positive feedback at some good conferences including the AACA one, some from experts working at GUT or with Clifford algebras.

      (3) I absolutely agree with you, and this is part of the "future plans" I mention in the last section of the paper. I don't assume extra spacetime dimensions, but indeed the Clifford algebra corresponds to a larger complex 6-dimensional space, and this algebra contains the required degrees of freedom for one generation plus gauge fields. So one of the long-term objectives is indeed to derive it from the geometry of spacetime, and I actually made some progress here, obtaining this from geometry. I didn't write a paper about this because at this point I actually found more possibilities, and I try to see which is the most natural, based on as few assumptions as possible. I will be satisfied with the one which will give the Einstein equation with the stress-energy of the SM Lagrangian. Other criteria include, of course, to have not only one generation, but three, and if possible SM parameters like the mixing matrices. And I agree with you about the quantization, for which I have some plans too. I am very motivated by "Herr Doktor"'s dream to obtain everything from geometry :) (and topology).

      (4) Thanks again!

      Best wishes,

      Cristi

      Dear Cristi,

      Thanks for your kind replies.

      Yes, I think that "Herr Doktor"'s dream to obtain everything from geometry is the most fascinating thing of Science. I wish you good luck also for the AACA submission.

      Cheers, Ch.

      Dear Christian,

      Thank you very much, I wish you success with your research too!

      Cheers,

      Cristi

      Dear Fellow Essayists

      This will be my final plea for fair treatment.,

      Reliable evidence exists that proves that the surface of the earth was formed millions of years before man and his utterly complex finite informational systems ever appeared on that surface. It logically follows that Nature must have permanently devised the only single physical construct of earth allowable.

      All objects, be they solid, liquid, or vaporous have always had a visible surface. This is because the real Universe must consist only of one single unified VISIBLE infinite surface occurring eternally in one single infinite dimension that am always illuminated mostly by finite non-surface light.

      Only the truth can set you free.

      Joe Fisher, Realist

      Christi,

      Great conversation on my string, & thanks for your good advice. To reply to your comment above.

      Yes Richard Feynman said he also 'gave up' the search as it was so difficult. But I look at it not as 'making QM classical' but as falsifying John Bell's view that "the founding fathers were wrong on that point.." that it IS classical & he, and we just hadn't found the flaw which would "take a leap of imagination" - and that we "should not stop looking" for it.

      The flaw emerges as the assumption of 'no assumption' about particle pair form or dynamics. They must then assume 'superposed states' which 'can't be rotation'. Testing other models; If they're simply given Maxwell's orthogonal 'curl' as well as (left hand rule thumb) linear momenta, then anti-parallel polar axes, the mist is lifted on the classical explanation (using all 3 degrees of freedom, electron field interaction momentum exchange and known non-linear momentum distributions with field angle.

      I hope anyone else reading this will take a look (also at Declan Trail's code & plot) as we'd like all to rigorously test the model pending publication.

      Back to yours, as my firt post (stolen by the ghosts in the machine) - original, of interest and well written despite the misplaced comment on my string. Well done.

      Best of luck

      Peter

      • [deleted]

      Dear Christi,

      very interesting - quite a detailed scenario for unification with many novel ideas. I must admit though there are many things I don't fully understand yet. For example, how is the unification approach via non-Lie-algebras related to the general theme of holographic fundamentalness? I find both ideas intriguing, but so far I can't grasp the relation. Can you help me?

      In any case I'm even more convinced we should get together soon again.

      Best! Heinrich

        Dear Heinrich,

        Thank you for reading my essay and for the kind comments. And also for the excellent question. I hope as well that we will meet again soon and discuss more, maybe at the next DICE conference.

        "how is the unification approach via non-Lie-algebras related to the general theme of holographic fundamentalness?"

        The Clifford algebras are generalizations of the complex number algebra, and the Cauchy-Riemann operator generalizes to the Dirac operator. The Dirac operator is present not only in the spin 1/2 particle equations, but also the Maxwell and Yang-Mills can be formulated using it. But just having all the equations written using the Dirac operator is not enough to guarantee the solution to be holomorphic. For example, the Dirac and Maxwell equations have nonholomorphic solutions. In fact, I didn't define yet what "holomorphic" means in this context, but I have an idea which involves gravity. If the resulting equation which contains the SM and gravity will be as I expect, then it will also guarantee that the solutions are holomorphic. But it's early to say that indeed this will be the case.

        I wish you success with your excellent essay!

        Best wishes,

        Cristi

        Hi Dear Christi

        Your article is written in very attractive style - as every time!

        I have a huge respect to Bohm's approach (despite for me a little bit more valuable De Broglie-Bohm theory!)

        //Holomorphic fundamentalness may be a mathematically consistent basis for holism and the holographic principle, but until we will have the unified theory of physics, it remains an exercise of imagination.// - Your idea seems to me as very reasonable. I believe it may be realized in any of time!

        Meantime I am dared to say that something has gone very wrong in our physics at the far-early beginning (that hardly anybody wish to listen!)

        So, I highly welcome your new work and I wish you succeeding in this contest!

        Best Regards!

          Dear George,

          Thank you very much for your kind comments and for your wishes. I wish you success with the essay (which I am looking forward to read) in this contest!

          Best wishes,

          Cristi

          It is a pleasure for me to see your essay coming on top few. Your mind generates ideas that simplify the geometry of growth of Physics, specially at the fundamental level of Particle Physics. On the other hand we have Cosmology where measurements are difficult , errors are large. How to construct the latter from the former at the fundamental level appears a task the human mind needs to tackle. I am amazed that fundamental particles and their connection to Higg's Boson isproving to be an enigma. Can you throw some light on why we should worry about the mass of the fundamental particles to be explained using Higg's Boson as the source? Fundamental to me means ultimate reality. It can never be approached as things tend to become difficult whenever we tend to get closer to the final solution. Many a times i feel our existing knowledge of Physics retards us to to reach a final end. If it is simple the approach should have freshness , rather than on the historical develoment of the way Physics got developed. That is , Methodology of doing sciences need to be freshened! My query is free of your expertise in Maths as i am deep down with experimental Physics. Maths can assist only in giving precision to present Physics formulations but can not go beyond the experimental facts already known firmly.