Essay Abstract

The physical universe is made up of objects and events in space and time. We refer to them collectively as Things. How does the human mind convert things in the observed universe, into laws? What role does our consciousness play in this conversion process? We propose that the dynamic pathways connecting the neurons in our brains have a dual interpretation, as a thing-law. The pathways are things, by virtue of their material nature. However, our consciousness also accords a pathway the interpretation of a law, which could be a thought, an idea, an emotion, a number, a geometrical figure, a physical law, or a mathematical theorem. The mind's conversion of things into laws is what we call the horizontal fundamental. But are laws different from things? In the emergent complex universe, apparently yes. However, as we dig deeper and deeper into the reductionist layers of reality, a process we call the vertical fundamental, laws and things become more and more like each other, until deepest down, they become one and the same.

Author Bio

Tejinder Singh is a professor of physics at the Tata Institute of Fundamental Research in Mumbai. His research interests are in quantum gravity, gravitation theories with torsion, the quantum measurement problem, and the problem of time in quantum theory.

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Dear Tejinder Pal Singh,

thank you for sharing your interesting point of view. It looks like that you argue that laws are concrete as things, or even more - I think that they are both void, but the view is not so different.

Good luck and best wishes!

Francesco

    Dear Tejinder Pal Singh,

    I really enjoyed reading tour essay - it is persuasive and elegantly written. I am enclined to think your thesis shows much similarity to what I have submitted under the title "A Fundamental loop". Arriving at a tripartition laws/things/mind appears to be inevitable as long as we use language and it is just one more variation of the well known and much discussed Semiotic Triangle consisting of sign/thing/concept. People have been interested most often in just one side e.g. German philosophers ignored signs or scientists chose to ignore concepts.Also, I think, one should refrain from ontological committment if three domains are to remain distinct; otherwise the triangle colapses into a dichotomy. You wrote " In trying to understand how the human mind converts things into laws, we are led to conclude that the mathematical world and the physical world are one and the same. " This looks like the classical opposition subject/object. It introduces perhaps some ambiguity in the next sentence which appears to expose the gist of your approach: "The search for this union is what we would like to call fundamental". Do we agree that such a union would be rather trivial for a pair but not for a triad?

    Best.

    a.losev

      Dear Francesco,

      Thank you! I have had a first browse through your pretty essay, and will respond to it there shortly.

      Tejinder

      Hi. Thanks so much for your wonderful comments and for telling me about the Semiotic triangle.

      Regarding the union of the pair of mathematics and physics - I am puzzled when you say it will be trivial. Maybe you mean it in some philosophical sense that I am not understanding? I would have said the union would be profound and beautiful, and is an extremely tough and challenging goal for physicists.

      But I agree with you that the union of the triad mathematics/mind/physical world will be most fascinating - I think of it as the bottom vertex of the vertical fundamental - where the mind also merges with physics and mathematics. Whether this has something to do with consciousness? Maybe. I don't know the answer but your question is undoubtedly a profound one. Thanks.

      I will surely read your essay.

      Tejinder

      Dear Tejinder

      Indeed the mind is total different from the "I", that is why I say ; You won't find the announcer inside the radio" You say "Enter Consciousness "The Watcher", but isn't the watcher inside our emergent reality also an "EVENT" ? Of course you are aware of the study of Hammerhoff and Penrose where a bridge is perceived between the micro and the macro reality . see also this link

      Your "vertical fundamental" perception is the same reason that I am in favour "Causal Emergence".

      You mention "Only the mind knows time; consciousness does not know time." I would like to say : The time-restricted part of consciousness that is the origin of the "I am" is a part of the TIMELESS Consciousness (Total Consciousness).

      I enjoyed travelling together with you and appreciated your participation highly.

      I hope you will find some time to readmy essay "Foundational Quantum Reality Loops" where I try to give an answer to your question "Understanding how consciousness emerges as a state of matter is unfortunately beyond the scope of the present essay, and we simply assume the watcher as a given"

      best regards

      Wilhelmus de Wilde

        Dear Professor Tejinder Pal Singh,

        Reliable evidence exists that the surface of the earth was formed millions of years before man and his utterly complex finite informational systems ever appeared on that surface. It logically follows that Nature must have permanently devised the only single physical construct of earth allowable.

        Joe Fisher, Realist

        Thank you for your comment on my essay! I answered there.

        bests,

        Francesco

        I think that reductions are trivial and they look successful because they omit something. A physicalist view might propose that mathematical objects exist only mentally and the mind is just a brain state. This is the materialist answer to "what is fundamental". More interesting, even if not very convincing, is the inverse reduction made popular lately by Max Tegmark's "mathematical universe hypothesis". So, either maths and physics are objective and the mind is subjective, or perhaps physics is fundamental and all the rest is just a complication. I have been trying to argue that in order to have two things you need a difference - which is a third one, something you might find uninteresting or irrelevant but which is nevertheless mandatory. This is a functional viewpoint which can be sustained, while the substantial approach tends to collapse.

        And Thank you for reading and commenting my essay.

        a.l.

        Hi Tejinder, I like your essay very much.

        Although your classification into categories of of things and laws works, I think the names themselves might be ambiguous and cause confusion if this is used elsewhere. At first I didn't like the use of 'thing' as it seemed to belong to objects but I see that it can be extended to related ideas. Space would be thing-where, time thing-when, motion thing-happening, object thing-exists. All sorts of 'thingness', which is a term you use later on. Law too seems, at first, to belong to specific kinds of prediction or decrees of how things should be. Yet, the contents of the set of law such as qualia and measurables are (to some extent) predictable consequences. At first you have all of mathematics in there but later it seems there is a question of the whereabouts of maths' natural home.

        The separation of motion, thing(-happening), from law, velocity, is useful. Distilling thing(-exists) into quantity is a mental process. Taking your example of a brick, without the mind there is just the brick and not the distilled quantity. Distilling thing(-happening) into a singular measurable involves some kind of measurement process, which need not be entirely mental treatment of sensory input but also some kind of interaction with the measured. Yet, the outcome of the process and any additional treatment such as calculation does end up with a mental 'product' that is known. Which is distinct from the thing. Taking the example of velocity, without the decision of how it is to be measured, that is 'relative to what?' the motion is undefined, not distilled into a singular value .

        Up until you start to blur the separation of mind-brain and consciousness law, and thing, I am in broad agreement. The spacetime you propose I can see relates to your previous work, in references. Certainly time needs to be non commutative because when things happen is very important. Such as the building of the sequence of a protein chain. Having a sequential, non commutative time does not, as I see it, mean that "everything happens at once" but merely that it is the same time everywhere, yet things still happen over the passage of time. Nevertheless, I realize you are talking about your own specific model.

        Mathematics can be 'distilled' from observations of nature and then be used to compare similar circumstances or objects. That there is similarity or sameness of the mathematics seems to me to likely be a consequence of the similarity of what is compared rather than the mathematics being causal. All exponential growth of what ever kind is mathematically similar not because the 'numerical pattern distillation' is causing it to be but because of the similarity of the happening; hence the 'distillations' are the same. I think that is agreeing with your idea that the mathematical answers are in the things themselves (bricks example). Which it seems is true for quantities but not measurables which are relational.

        Good thought provoking read. Kind regards Georgina

          Dear Wilhelmus,

          Greetings, and thanks so much for reading my essay and commenting on it.

          >Indeed the mind is total different from the "I", that is why I say ; You won't find the announcer inside >the radio" You say "Enter Consciousness "The Watcher", but isn't the watcher inside our emergent >reality also an "EVENT" ? Of course you are aware of the study of Hammerhoff and Penrose where a >bridge is perceived between the micro and the macro reality . see also this link

          I am inclined to think of consciousness as the law aspect of a thing, with the thing being the organism/brain/connectome (I do not know exactly which of these `things'). In that sense, for me the watcher is the law aspect, rather than the event aspect, with the event actually belonging to the category `things'.

          >Your "vertical fundamental" perception is the same reason that I am in favour "Causal Emergence".

          We are more or less in agreement here, I think :-)

          >You mention "Only the mind knows time; consciousness does not know time." I would like to say : >The time-restricted part of consciousness that is the origin of the "I am" is a part of the TIMELESS >Consciousness (Total Consciousness).

          I don't get this Wilhelmus :-) What did you mean by the `time-restricted' part of consciousness, or `total consciousness'?

          >I hope you will find some time to read my essay "Foundational Quantum Reality Loops" where I try to >give an answer to your question "Understanding how consciousness emerges as a state of matter is >unfortunately beyond the scope of the present essay, and we simply assume the watcher as a given"

          This sounds wonderful. Thanks. Will read your essay soon.

          Best regards,

          Tejinder

          Dear Georgina,

          I am grateful for your careful reading of my essay, and for your very interesting comments and insights.

          I agree that calling all of the physical universe a `thing' can cause some confusion in the beginning. I wanted some such short term so as to be easily able to refer to the three classes: things, laws, mind. Your subclassification; thing-when etc. is nice and useful! Your example of motion and velocity above is useful too.

          As regards time, I think a causal flow of `linear' time is a property only of classical space-time. In a quantum gravitational world, it seems doubtful that there is any flowing time at all [i.e. past, present,

          future]. This is independent of the particular non-commutative space-time `model I proposed in my work.

          Your last paragraph and the statement about the sameness of mathematics in similar phenomena supports well the idea of maths being in things - I think this idea makes it easier to understand why maths is so effective in describing the physical world.

          Thanks once again,

          Tejinder

          Dear Tejinder Pal Singh,

          Your conclusion:

          „In trying to understand how the human mind converts things into laws, we are led to conclude that the mathematical world and the physical world are one and the same."

          It's the same as my conclusion in the previous FQX-i contest.

          Interesting is the Collatz conjecture, which ends with 16, 8, 4, 2. Not knowing about that conjecture I have assumed the importance of number 16(2^4) in the article „Two Significant Cosmological Masses", http://gsjournal.net/Science-Journals/Research%20Papers/View/5752

          I appreciate your essay.

          Regards,

          Branko

            Dear Tejinder

            Indeed we are "in agreement about your "vertcal fundamental perception, we use different words and...In causal emergence I see "steps" fromwhere new phenomena can emerge (like in the essay from Eric P. Hoel last year.

            I don't get this Wilhelmus :-) What did you mean by the `time-restricted' part of consciousness, or `total consciousness'?

            Sorry for the error in my expression here, with the "restricted part" I mean the consciousness as we are experiencing it in this specific emerging reality. Total Consciousness as I see it is OUTSIDE all the restrictions like time and space , outside our emerging reality. It is beyond the Planck area (however area is not a good description) that I call Total Simultaneity. "Here" all realities ra emerging like LOOPS. (see my essay). And here again we agree both it is about the "things" that go beyond our comprehension, and it is good that we both can say "I don't know"

            best regards

            Wilhelmus

            Dear Professor Singh,

            Thank you for the insightful thoughts. I just happened to reach to your conclusion " In trying to understand how the human mind

            converts things into laws, we are led to conclude that the mathematical world and the physical world are one and the same", and, to my small surprise, this is pretty much what I had conveyed in my essay. Its definitely a positive sign!

            Sincerely,

            Siddhant Bahuguna

              Hi Tejinder,

              Your essay was entertaining. I enjoyed your rather mildly solipsistic (with respect to mathematics) take on the whole thing, since my own viewpoint also has a dose of solipsism.

              You say:

              "the mathematical world and the physical world are one and the same. The search for this union is what we would like to call fundamental. Everything springs from this union."

              Wouldn't incompleteness theorems and Gödelian results cause heavy limitations on the amount of help mathematics can give us with physical reality? What are your thoughts on this?

              Regards,

              Aditya

                Dear Tejinder Pal Singh,

                Reliable evidence exists that proves that the surface of the earth was formed millions of years before man and his utterly complex finite informational systems ever appeared on that surface. It logically follows that Nature must have permanently devised the only single physical construct of earth allowable.

                Joe Fisher, Realist

                Dear Branko,

                Thank you for reading my essay and for telling me about conclusions of your earlier essay.

                Indeed, I agree that powers of 2, as well as numbers of the form 2^n -1, have a special role in the Collatz conjecture.

                Best regards,

                Tejinder

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                Dear Siddhant,

                Thank you for your remarks, and for pointing me to your essay. I gave it a first read just now, but I need to get back to it later to understand what you are trying to convey.

                Best,

                Tejinder

                Dear FQXi,

                The onslaught of 1 rating has begun! :-) I just got a 1 and came down from 7.4 in five ratings to 6.3 in six ratings. And I figured the highest rating essay [Hossenfelder] also got a 1 rating and is down from 7.9 in ten ratings to 7.3 in eleven ratings. Other essays have been attacked too. Whoever has given these meaningless 1s should be exposed and disqualified from this contest. And seriously, these torpedo 1s should be removed from everyone's score.

                Thanks,

                Tejinder