ABSOLUTENESS IN THE CONTEXT OF SCIENCE AND SPIRITUALITY by Anil Shanker and Narenda Nath

Joe Fisher

Dear Professors Anil Shanker and Narenda Nath

Reliable evidence exists that proves that the surface of the earth was formed millions of years before man and his utterly complex finite informational systems ever appeared on that surface. It logically follows that Nature must have permanently devised the only single physical construct of earth allowable.

Joe Fisher, Realist

Anil Shanker

I do agree with you, Joe on your first remark. But I am not sure about the permanency of any physical construct. They may appear permanent only in a very narrow frame of space and time.

Kind regards,

Anil

Tejinder Singh

Dear Authors,

Greetings, and thank you for your essay. I was wondering why you do not allow for the possibility that human consciousness is a property of the material of which the human body is made?

Kind regards,

Tejinder

Anil Shanker

Thank you so much, Tejinder for your important remark. In my opinion, we do allow for the animate and the inanimate and the connecting/intervening consciousness as components of one absolute nothingness. I envision the world as one continuum constituted by all its manifestations and regulatory natural forces (simply summed up as "Almighty God").

Regards,

Anil

Narendra Nath

Consciousness has no mass or energy content as such. Thus, science is unable to deal with its current methodology. Our saints in ancient times, did lot of sacrifice, meditation and what we call Tapa to look deep inside. A good illustartion exists by way of the speed of light that was given as correctly as the modern measurements by Rishi Bhaskar. Also Patanjali Rishi has attributed to the discovery of gravity to his predecessors. They worked and conveyed things orally to their next generation successively and today this fact has been accepted by our scientific community to be a factual statement to the credit of our wise ancesters in India. Such is the beauty of ' CONSCIOUSNESS ' as it can be appraoched with advantage both internally as well as externally. There is a saying in India that our inner world can reflect the outer world successfully if the former has that strength required. As a scientist who has practiced meditation and yoga for a number of years while in active service as Professor of Physics and found it to be relevant for innovation in thought. Thought / ideas lead to action and accomplishement eventually!

Narendra Nath

May i request Prof. Tejinder Singh to kindly respond to the remarks made by me as a fellow member of tne community of authors. Ofcourse i welcome other authors and general public to go through our short essay of less than 3 pages.If there is a demand we can put down some references to our text also. Ours is not really an Essay that deserve meritorious consideration. It was put in by junior author , Anil Sashtri, as a courtesy towards me, as i am not a computer savy person at my age of 85 years plus. I just wanted a job for myself to occupy the time available for my professional activity, subsequent to retirement. These days i work more as a mentor cum advisor for younger faculty and students in academic cum technical institutions. The latter like to have my association because of having filed six patents, the last one just an year back titled ' Surface Junction Thermo-electric Device with power boost, to act as Air-conditioning unit '. I may just add that my

Tejinder Singh

Dear Anil, Dear Narendra,

Thank you for your important remarks. I fully agree with you that consciousness / self-awareness can be beautifully felt through meditation, by watching oneself and one's thoughts as if from outside, as a `watcher.

However, I honestly see no reason as to why one day consciousness will not be understood as a state of the material of which our body is made. There is, in my opinion, often a tendency, as we have seen in the history of science, to attribute to `beyond science' those natural phenomena which we are currently unable to explain using science.

I fully support that our ancient spiritual masters already knew a great deal in matters of meditation and self-awareness.

I feel meditation and `inner contemplation' will help understand consciousness, but for me meditation and inner contemplation are also a form of science only...it is the experiment of self-observation.

Kind regards,

Tejinder

Narendra Nath

Thanks for your comments, Tajinder. I have no difference from the view expressed, except to say that science has a long way to go before it can demonstrate what consciousness is! Spirituality and science are two different ways of apprach with different working methodologies. The twain are unlikely to ever meet. There are different pathways to Absolute Truth. When ever they meet the differnces will disappear! Wish your top essay to remain at the Top to get the top prize. I give you my Ashirwad as an elder does in our traditions!

Anil Shanker

Dear Tejinder,

I completely agree with you on your words: "meditation and inner contemplation are also a form of science only...it is the experiment of self-observation". And I do not believe that "science" and "spirituality" are two different approaches.They both involve methods of observation, one outward and the other inward. They both help in our complete understanding of the world and its workings.

Regards,

Anil

Anil Shanker

Thank you, Wilhelmus for your comments. I agree with you that "total consciousness" is also "total simultaneity". Also, you re right in saying that death is not a final point. In fact, I believe that life and death are simply two intermediary points in a simple continuum of absolute nothingness.

Regards,

Anil

Narendra Nath

my.... post was left half done! assignment at Brigham Younf University, Provo, UT was based on US National Science Foundation nomination as Senior Foreign scientist that carried my family travel plus honorarium to USA from India and back!I appreciate that gesture of US Institutions of repute!

Wilhelmus de Wilde

Dear Anil.

I agree with you that "absoluteness" is a way for Total Consciousness to "express" itself, and to realise the Completeness tthat I indicate as "Total Simultaneity". Both expressions (Absoluteness and TS) are means to describe the totality of realities that can be experienced by ALL agents of ALL Realities. However these realities are NOTHING when there is no consciousness.

I thank you for taking your time to read an comment my essay.

rbest regards

Wilhelmus

Anil Shanker

"Realities are NOTHING when there is no consciousness" very interesting observation.

Thanks,

Anil

Cristinel Stoica

Dear Anil and Narendra,

Thank you for your essay. You sketched a brief history of human evolution, in simple and touching words. Spirituality and technology, two apparently opposite poles, but both part of our world. Long time ago we discovered fire and iron, and in time we arrived at our current technology. Technology is so far from our roots and from our essence, but I see it as an amplifier of our actions and most intimate v膩san膩. Narendra, technology facilitated the encounter between you and me almost 10 years ago, and although we've never met, our connection went beyond the Internet. Like for fire and iron, it's up to us what we do with technologies, "they're either a benefit or a hazard", and your essay warns us about the dangers, but also about the possibilities. I particularly find very beautiful and insightful this phrase you wrote: "Science may help achieve that ultimate goal [...] by collapsing the sphere we built back to a mere point, a continuum of eternity".

Warm regards,

Cristi Stoica, Indra's net

Anil Shanker

Thank you, Cristi for your kind and appreciative words. The continuum of eternity encompasses all and everything that we are trying to understand and define...Certain things are however beyond definition...Consciousness or a simple word like "love" are everything or nothing...or a singularity.

The more we understand, the more I feel we understand very little.

Kind regards,

Anil

Narendra Nath

Dear Cristi, nice to see your comments on our essay from you, an old friend from past contests. Nature is not man made. In fact we have hardly added anything toit since inception and humans appearing on the scene. The only thing we have done is to disturb the Nature through indiscriminate technology, i.e, not nature friendly. We ahve brought wars and human ragedies across the globe. It is time we enhance the strength of humanity and make technology conform to it!

Narendra Nath

Poor public rating needs understanding that we have lacked support of people at large. There is lack of understanding of people around us. We need better understanding about our relations with the community beyond the authors partcipating here in about 150 odd essays!

Narendra Nath

Nothing and everything to add!

Wilhelmus de Wilde

Dear Narendra,

As an answer on your post on my thread of jan 29 :

It is NOT as you write that Planck area's emerge from 4 dimensional Space Time, in my proposal it is just the way around. In this essay I named TOTAL SIMULTANEITY the Planck Area, from where ALL realities emerge.

Total Simultaneity is space and time-less, it is an eternal point of creation.

The primal cause of this creation is the INITIATIVE FOR COMPLETENESS OF TOTAL CONSCIOUSNESS, also residing in Total Simultaneity.

You could also say : GOD is the Creator of ALL REALITY, the COMPLETENESS of GOD is the FIRS CAUSE of the creation (in his most broad way). TOTAL CONSCIOUSNESS residing in Total Simultaneity IS ansoluteness...(so..... I gave a scientific explanation of GOD)

best regards

Wilhelmus de Wilde

Narendra Nath

Dear Wilhelmus, sorry i could not understand your contention in terms of the the totallty of Consciousness.It seems most authors understand essays other than their own in a limited manner. It is so in real life too as our differences of opinion get much reduced with better understanding. This naturally involve interaction between our invidual consciousness. In a comment Tejinder remarked that consciousness is a part of our body and consists of same material. To me such a conjecture does not take consciousness to the level of totality you conjectured. My inner voice tells me that cosciousness is ever-existent and even preceedes the material creation of the our Universe. Its logic must pre-exist as the design that emerged has certainly not come out randomness. Thus, Physics gets involved as one talks of random v/s order. I get reminded of an experiment i worked on for our graduate students where we added regular pulse events in different proportion to to the random evenys. Down to less than 0.01 % we found Chi-square test indicated lack of randomness to

exist. It just shows how strong is the distinction between randomness and artificiality of order to be present in nature.

Narendra Nath

Wish to see some responses to last comments made!