Dear Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta,

Thank you so much for sharing your experience and voting my essay as well. Let me give my opinion on this essay contest. In this essay contest, the goals are

-- Encourage and support rigorous, innovative, and influential thinking about foundational questions in physics and cosmology;

-- Identify and reward top thinkers in foundational questions; and,

-- Provide an arena for discussion and exchange of ideas regarding foundational questions.

I think that our essays and comments are pursued to these goals.

Best wishes,

Yutaka

Dear Jason W Steinmetz,

Thank you so much for reading my essay and sharing your comments.

> Thus, if a truly random could be generated using quantum theory then that would certainly be a very interesting result; should I dare to even call it a breakthrough?

I agree with this breakthrough. In our recent paper, we discussed the types of the random numbers, which call the product randomness and process randomness. In these classifications, we have to discuss what the true randomness is. On the Surprise Test Paradox, thank you so much for pointing out this paradox connected to the true random numbers.

It is noted that I would like to discuss the difference between the true random number generation and the unpredictable random number generation. In my feeling, which is not exactly discussed under my current knowledge, this seems to be different. In the further research, I would like to study this difference.

Thank you so much for your comments during the quarantine time of the COVID-19.

Best wishes,

Yutaka

Hi Yutaka,

Thank you for the wonderful historical piece on random number generators. I certainly agree with your final quote that the ultimate application of a one-qubit quantum computer is to generate random numbers. How do you you think this would apply to qudits? For example, if I had a ququart, then I could the 4D subspace into 2 x 2 qubit subspace and essentially generate a two qubit random string.

What do you think if you were to generate the probabilistic seed from an external environment? There have been several Bell experiments where the physicists used thermal light emitted from stars to generate their randomness in the experiment.

I hope you get a chance to look at my essay. We share several very similar ideas. In my essay, I consider randomness as arising from an unobserved environment as limiting the description of a Turing machine to indeterministic theories.

Thanks,

Michael

    Hi Michael,

    Thank you so much for your interest on my essay.

    > How do you you think this would apply to qudits?

    A la the non-binary representation of the random number generation, qudit case should be applied to the "d"git representation of the random numbers. From "d"git representation to the binary one, several mathematical deterministic functions are well known.

    > What do you think if you were to generate the probabilistic seed from an external environment?

    This question leads to what an external environment is. As mentioned in my essay, N-body environment is essentially predictable. Maybe, this is not efficiently computed. On the formal definition of "environment", this is not controlled. On the other hand, my previous statement seems to be contradicted. Therefore, its boundary is wobbly.

    Finally, I enjoyed reading your essay and commented at your essay thread.

    Best wishes,

    Yutaka

    Thank you Yutaka,

    Our essays have so many similarities, I rated your essay the best. Now the rating is 7.3 the seventh one... Please check mail...

    Hope you will rate me too

    Best

    =snp

    Dear Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta,

    Thank you so much for rating my essay. I have already voted your essay. Good luck.

    Best wishes,

    Yutaka

    Dear Yutaka,

    First, my apologies for being so slow in following up on reading your essay. I've been away from FQXi entirely for about the last week, actually.

    I quite like both of your essays, as well as your interesting questions about black hole information loss at my essay thread.

    Your 2013 essay 2013 essay on an "operational" derivation of physical laws strikes me as very compatible with multiple essays this year, including Flavio Del Santo's excellent essay on quantum-induced temporal uncertainty. Your description of "operational" as formalizing into information theory struck me as compatible in particular with the theme that what is in play in classical physics is really far more of an information game than is generally recognized.

    In a sense, in my essay this year I just take that kind of thinking to its logical extreme: Classical physics is the physics of information, an unending game of bits making real what had previously only been quantum and ahistorical. In some ways, unfortunately I think, the focus in the last couple of decades on quantum bits, on undecided bits, has obscured the incredible power of real bits to lock down the fabric of reality. Even mass in this perspective boils down to a broken pair of quantities, locked by historical state data from recombining. Without the intransigence of classical bits, even a quantity as fundamental as mass-energy itself would have no enduring existence. Having two time vectors -- having a dual pair of universes hurtling away from each other -- provides that first huge it-from-bit event of making the existence of mass-energy, biased from the start towards matter rather than antimatter (that's the other universe), into the fundamental paradox of every pair that comes after it in our universe.

    Your current essay on quantum random number generation was impressive to me because I think in that idea you exactly nailed what I would call a perfect bit creation: An exact, one-bit capture of our universe discarding half (!) of all possible future events, even if the bit created is for now merely local and seems no great deal. And your random-number quantum computer idea perfectly matches the physical detection model for an electron passing through two slits: If balanced (and if losses are factored out), then the electron will be detected going thought one or the other slit exactly half the time, with each such decision adding one more bit, one more historical path, to our classical universe.

    Incidentally, I cannot help but notice that your one-bit quantum random number generator also fits nicely with the title of my own poor essay: You are achieving indeterminacy based on the absolutism of the underlying pair cancellation constraints. In a dark-function model of quantum mechanics -- I guess I should say "my" dark-function model? I know of no refs -- the superb irony is that quantum uncertainty is actually just a particularly massive and universe-spanning (via entanglement) version of a pseudo number generator, one that derives new bit results based on conservation rules applied simultaneously to a near-infinity of shattered entanglements with the other already-existing bits, the fabric, of the classical universe.

    But because the bits that define the classical universe are always both finite in number and entangled in unbelievably complex ways with the thermal matter of the universe, that same nominally "pseudo" random process can also become indefinitely "picky" about how to preserve, say, a spin here and another spin there. That is the uncertainty your are invoking in your one-bit quantum random number generator: A large but finite number of bits, used to generate the next new bit in some new observed event. However, at the same this bit generation process will depend on massively parallel applications of quantum-level absolute conservation rules that are so strict that a bit on the other side of the universe can strongly affect an outcome here, in a fashion that appears analog-smooth rather than digital-precise.

    Anyone looking at such a bit generation process from the viewpoint of classical physics will, pretty much by definition, never have sufficient bit resources, even in the entire classical universe, to calculate what the quantum-conservation outcome will be. We cannot see the creation of bits precisely because we are the bits, pieces of a finite-granularity universe that literally lacks enough data to resolve its own classical details. Yet that same "finite granularity" is both variable and multi-scale bits, enabling the simulation of infinite smoothness whenever anyone "looks" for such smoothness, e.g. HAWC Consortium gammas that recently soundly disproved string theory. This is in sharp contrast to some naive and energetically infinitely-costly fixed-size cell structure of space, which would break everything.

    So again: Out of the resolute, absolute determination of the underlying broken virtual pair quantum word to resolve, eventually, back to true null, the much cruder layer of historical bits slathered on top of it, what we call the classical universe, can never achieve anything more than results that are forever beyond our ability even to see, let alone to calculate: the perfect random number generator, even if ironically it uses the universe itself as its starting seed.

    I should also note however that this does not mean that the classical roots of quantum uncertainty in the dark-function interpretation are completely invisible. Quite the contrary: The dark function interpretation of quantum mechanics, which relies on the Humpty-Dumpty theory of observers (hdtoo, or just hd2), should make possible controlled local quantum experiments in which the quantum collapse is not totally random. So dark functions and hd2 observers are more than just another non-testable quantum interpretation: If dark functions and hd2 are real, they predict that there should exist experiments that disprove absolute quantum randomness, if the set up is done right.)

    Finally, regarding black holes: Dark functions don't allow singularities anymore than they allow many-worlds... not to mention that point about dark functions also unraveling some of the key assumptions of top-end quantum computing. So a black hole would simply become a special type of information geometry.

    From reading 't Hooft's papers in recent years, I am pretty convinced that he knows blinkin' well that he has undercut the entire concept of an interior in a black hole with them, and thus has implicitly force the whole (hole?) black hole concept back its earlier days of the frozen horizon where nothing penetrates because classical time stops. (Hint: But not dark-mirror time! Momentum space has its own version of change, one that scrambles ours badly.) But 't Hooft is above all a polite man, and I think that he is (appropriately if you ask me) trying to be respectful of all of the amazing analytical and mathematical work so many folks have done before.

    My only poor addition there, other than to complain a bit that you have to be careful about assuming the existence of antipodes in 2D spaces (waves work differently in even and odd spaces), is simply to point out that what 't Hooft came up with -- momentum waves across the surface of the impenetrable black hole -- sounds an awful lot like momentum space as seen in mirrors. So if infalling black hole particles become "mostly" 2D momentum waves, it just starts getting difficult not to call the result a giant ball of 2D momentum space. All the information stays right there at the impenetrable top, just in scrambled "dark mirror" form.

    ("Impenetrable surface" for a black hole?!? Sure. Hey, how else could the silly things evaporate? I mean, seriously... is the event horizon supposed to drop a fishing line down to the singularity and ask it pretty-please to return the mass-energy it stole? And again, 't Hooft in his analysis of SK coordinates in his new model actually does address the issue of whether the matter ever really reaches the singularity, but again rather quietly and politely.)

    So basically, I think 't Hooft has already rewritten the black hole classics. He just hasn't received enough attention for it yet. You know how it is: It's so tough these days for these newbies with only one Nobel Prize to get folks attention for their ideas... :)

      Dear Terry,

      Thank you so much for your kind and long message.

      > Anyone looking at such a bit generation process from the viewpoint of classical physics will, pretty much by definition, never have sufficient bit resources, even in the entire classical universe, to calculate what the quantum-conservation outcome will be.

      I think that physical random number generator such as the chaotic one is the good example. This is also physically implemented. However, my research direction is now following this line.

      Best wishes,

      Yutaka

      Hi Yutaka! Nice essay. I have a question though. You say in Section 1 that even QKD can be rendered ineffective using RNG manipulation. In the BB84 protocol, Alice begins by creating two random binary strings. I guess I never gave much thought to how these strings were generated, but let's assume that they are generated classically. Are you saying that this is how to break BB84? So if I understand what you're saying, you could hack BB84 if you could interfere with Alice's attempt to create these "random" strings by RNG manipulation. Then the strings would no longer be truly random and you could manipulate them however you wanted. Then it wouldn't matter if there was an eavesdropper because the original strings would have been manipulated. Am I understanding this correctly?

        Hi Ian,

        On the BB84 protocol, the Alice encoding to prepare the quantum state and the Bob choice of the measurement basis should be random. When Eve hacked these choices in advance, Eve measured this measurement basis. Thereafter, Eve should send the known quantum state to Bob. This difference is often called the private randomness and shared randomness. On the BB84 protocol and other QKD protocols, the shared randomness can be achieved under the assumption of the private randomness. In my essay, I would like to focus on the discussions of the private randomness.

        Best wishes,

        Yutaka

        Neat essay. I never thought about the fact that a quantum random number generator is not subject to RNG manipulation---but in hindsight it seems perfectly obvious! I also liked hearing about the early history of computing. It seems that giants like von Neumann truly did study everything under the sun.

        One question. I am sympathetic to the view that quantum mechanics involves true randomness, i.e. that there is not some underlying deterministic theory controlling the probabilities we observe (and it seems you are sympathetic to this view as well). Of course, some people think these deterministic theories (e.g. Bohmian mechanics) are plausible. Do you think studying real quantum number generators (and whether they are 'truly' random) will help shed light on which interpretation is most reasonable? Or do you think such a question is beyond experiment, since the predictions of these interpretations usually all match? I'm not sure what to think on this topic myself.

        John

          Dear John,

          Thank you so much for reading my essay and taking your interest. On your question,

          > Do you think studying real quantum number generators (and whether they are 'truly' random) will help shed light on which interpretation is most reasonable?

          I think that such studies should be the research question. To pursue answering the question, I strongly believe that our understanding on quantum mechanics should be deepened.

          Best wishes,

          Yutaka

          Dear Yutaka,

          Thank you for the very interesting essay! I enjoyed reading about the history of computing, with focus on the PRNG and its weakness due to its predictability, and then about the advent of QNRG. I liked the closing remark, "A quantum random number generator is an ultimate application of a one-qubit quantum computer". Great essay, I wish you the best in the contest!

          Cheers,

          Cristi

            Dear Cristi,

            Thank you so much for reading my essay with your appreciation. I also hope to be the best for the FQXi contest!!

            Best wishes,

            Yutaka

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