Georgina,

I don't know. On one hand the production on any singlet pair would be unpredictable as to which 'side' of the source would have a positive and the other a negative vector, but then we also have the problem of the projection of singlet pairs being actually a cluster and not actually of a single singlet pair as theoretically described. So In practice our source device would essentially pre-program the majority of a projected emission cluster to be aligned as one side ways being predictably and the other anti-correlated, wouldn't you think? That is the loophole in practice that Bell enthusiasts decry in theory. And theoretically you make a good argument. I am not anything near a statistician, can't stand the stuff, so in fairness I really can't say. :-) jrc

Well, there still it is an affirmation about the modified gravity , the scalar tensor vector gravity is still an attempt to contredict the newtonian mechanics anf the dark matter . It is an assumption not proved like the MONDs of Verlinde or others. In fact we return still at the same philosophical problem, several thinkers consider only this photonic spacetime like the primordial essence and it begins to be very odd. Wilczek that I respect and I find very relevant with several publications has made the same foundamental error for this quantum gravitation in considering the gravitons like quanta of the gravitational waves, so we return still at this spacetime of this General relativity like the only one truth. And since that they try all to unify G c and h , the QM and the GR in trying to quantify this weakest quantum force with the best mathematical tools , they have not successed even with subgroups of this E8 and the non commutativity and non associativity. In fact the problem is this General relativity and the fields like origin of our topologies, geometries, matters, fields, all they consider that we are connected in 1D of this GR with strings or points in 1D at this planck scale.

Why the thinkers consider this general reasoning ? why the photons like primordial essence ? why strings like foundamental objects ? why this QG like an emergent electromagnetic force ? It could be well to return at the old school for the proportions of motions and in adding deeper parameters, the dark matter has a mass and is non baryonic, the dark energy is an energy anti gravitational and can solve the constant cosmological problem, and both can permit to reach and explain our unknowns. The GR of course is important but is just a part of the puzzle and we need to consider the DM and the DE at all scales to explain these unknowns.

The BB and photons and strings and this GR alone have really created a prison for the majority of thinkers and now they turn in round in trying with different partitions in maths to explain all, that has no sense for me. The photons are mass less and are encoded in a thing that we don t know probably, it is probably this space vacuum of the DE, possessing the main codes and the dark matter cold permit to balance with the photons encoded , they have a mass furthermore and if the higgs mechanism is activated by the photons and that it distributes the mass of codes of this space vacuum , so that explains all, if this DM is encoded so it can explain the antiparticles and also this quantum gravitation. So we arrive at a conclusion, the gravitation is the main force and chief orchestra of the universe and the 3 known forces them are emergent simply, they are just photons encoded in this space vacuum permitting the 3 known forces of the standard model and the fields. Why to consider the photonic spacetime like main essenc3, they are just there to observe and propagate the waves at c or others, they permit just the 3 main know forces of this SM. Einstein said himself that this GR was probably not the only one piece of puzzle. Sp why now all they consider this GR like the only one truth ? The universe is more simple with the motions of 3D spheres than all this non necessary complexity of strings and photons. I give new roads of thoughts , I don t affirm, but the thinkers affirming could stop to affirm things not proved because first of all the GR like primordial essence is an assumption, secondly the photons and fields like the cause of our reality and its topologies, geometries,matters, fields..it is an assumption also, the strings in 1D and the extradimensions it is also an assumption, the MONds and other modified theories of newton it is also assumptions, the DE and DM wich don t exist, it is alsio an assumption, and when you mix all assumptions together to crate a new assumption, it is so an assumption.

Steve's,

I'll leave dark matters for other topics.

I think what is an important aspect in context of entanglement, is one never addressed. We always discuss experiments assuming that the choice of wavelength just goes along with the experimental components. But perhaps the most intriguing thing about EMR is that different frequency ranges interact remarkably different in different media. Radar wavelengths are used by archeologists to locate and map subterranean structures, Infra red is used by DEA to map marijuana growing. Visible light bounces off walls and radio wavelengths go through them. That's interesting. So wouldn't there be some regions of the spectrum that would be more entangled by an appropriate production source? jrc

John.

Are the clusters measured as if single or sequentially? If measured as one isn't that the same as if one?

Georgina,

That's just the point. Experimentally at present there is no way to actually count the number of photons in any one cluster, A cluster would register as a single detection, and subsequent emissions of clusters would register sequentially. So it raises the question of whether the polarity of any cluster is pristine or if in the process of directing the path of projection the polarity vector is pre-set, or "put in by hand" in theoretical parlance.

The textbook explanation of the 2017 Quess experiment still boils down to a one time pad and a random number generator. So why couldn't the super computerized cryptologists of other national observers (whom would have had to be anticipating the attempt for it to have any political punch) crack the code? I mean it's old hat in clandestine tradecraft to tease the competition by making it difficult to spy on what you want your opponent to think is secret.

John,

"entanglement' does not persist beyond first measurement, letting it be known someone has intercepted the sequence. Like securing a door with a human hair. Easy for anyone to enter but the displaced hair lets the intrusion be known, afterwards.

Georgi,

this is new on my browser, and much different from what I've understood of capabilities. This source says a 2020 test achieved a QKD transmission at a rate of only 0.12 bits per second, which would be 5 seconds for one bit of information to be passed to ground stations from the satellite.

https://asiatimes.com/2020/06/chinese-team-claims-quantum-supremacy-with-satellite-test

oops... 8.3 seconds, what was I thinking

21 days later

Bells theorem is only relevant to particles, indivisible billiard balls if you like, and as such is reasonable. However 99 % of realisable experiments have been performed with "photons" and polariser's. If we perform the experiment with waves or wave packets we can simulate entanglement by using a beam splitter, this gives us two identical wave packets travelling in opposite directions, we then use polariser's on each side to simulate any of the real experiment performed to date. We are also free to simulate photo multiplier tubes and there idiosyncrasy's, we can also simulate pulse height discriminators and there freely adjustable threshold's. We can add different types of noise to any area of the experiment. By randomly varying the free parameters we get a distorted law of Malus as the correlation function, which disagrees (quantum result) with most of the Bell derived inequalities. By adjusting the free parameters we can reproduce the law of Malus perfectly. In other words we get a perfect quantum prediction with purely classical wave model assumptions. We have run these models 20 years ago using different computer models and published the results in peer reviewed journals. Eric Reiter has constructed a similar model in hardware and has demonstrated it at various venues in the US. If any of this is not flawed, then this modelling represents strong evidence for the demise of the photon. What would Kuhn or Popper conclude from this? The following links refer to one of the models. The take home conclusion is the polariser splits the wave (some reflected some re transmitted) and alters the polarisation angle. This is impossible for a particle!.............

">here](https://jumpshare.com/v/LArJ3RT09MfIN1e4jAbt

)

">and here](https://jumpshare.com/v/HlqWkdLlG4TGeY4KQ9N7

)

The other conclusion is how can QM's particle's (photon's) produce the law of Malus? They apparently uses non physical, superluminal communication between particles or detectors or polarizers or something? To produce the result.

Barry

5 months later

This model has been thoroughly debunked here.

However there is an update to Joy Christian's original classical local-realistic model here that definitely refutes Bell's physics theory.

    Hi, yes indeed I have read his paper about bell. He is friend on facebook and I have an other good friend it is richard gill, richard does not agree with the paper of Joy, I agree with Richard about this , the hidden variables cannot be solved at this moment. It is simply due to fact that we havelimitations technological, philosophical and about too these hidden variables that we cannot observe, reach . You can take all the partitions in maths that you want or the methos in physics, it is not possbile because simply we don t know what are these hidden variables and hos they interact and where.

    In fact , let s be rational and logic, the bell theorem tells us that the quantum mechanics is incompatible with hidden local variables. It is of course complex and paradoxal. Einstein with the EPR experiment told that the QM is not complete, of course it is probably the case, but both is right. The most important is to go farer than our actual reasonings in considering only these photons andf this GR. The paradox so is that both are right , the QM is uncomplete and the hidden variables are not compatible with our actual philosophy about the oriugin of topologies, geometries. It is due to a bridge relativistic about the photonic observations.

    If we have hidden variables , so they interact not with our actual mechanism but with depper mechanism not still observable, measurable and known. So we return still about the origin philosophical of our topologies, geometries and baryonic matters. If we consider these strings and this GR alone, that cannot solve the problem because for me the fields and this GR are not the cause of this baryonic matter but if now we consider this space vacuum encoding these photons and this cold dark matter to create this baryonic matter, and that we have particles in a superfluifdity and spheres instead of our actual reasoning,so indeed we have deeper parameters to superimpose and so hidden variables but these variables are not approachable at this moment and furthermore the main codes of the vacuum too, And furthermore probably that theee hidden local variables does not change our actual SM but act farer or differently inthe parameters not known.

    In all the cases, bell is right and false paradoxally, and einstein too , all is a question of scales and main informations and cause.

    We can take all the different interpretations of our QM, the copenaghe one, the many worlds, the qbism,the relational QM,Bohm, born rules..... that does not change the problem about our philosophical, technological, observable limitations.

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