The End of the Quantum Road?

Caslav and Bob thank you for the article and post, they made my day.

The idea of physics as information transfer is very appealing. Seth Lloyd goes so far as to describe the universe as a quantum computer, where each physical interaction entails a computation, the result of the computation is the future history of the interactants.

The most developed frame work of this idea that I have come accross is that being erected by Wojciech Zurek. Using the concept of information transfer and limitations on the quantity of information storage in the process of dechoerence he seems to have been able to derrive the troublesome quantum postulates (collapse and Born's rule). This derivation Leaves quantum theory founded on the sensible postulates (wave function and Schrodenger's equation)

We have distinquish between indirect quantum information transfer and direct quantum information transfer. By second time is zero.

yours amritAttachment #1: Indirect_and_Direct_Quantum_Information_and_Quantum_Energy_Transfer_Sorli_2009.pdf

Hello all,

Dear Amrit,could you explain me ,please the difference ,mathematically and physically .....It's very interesting .

Kinds Regards

Steve

Neuroscientists are beginning to realise that neurological process are dynamic and rely on flow and concentrations of certain neurotransmitters to determine pathways. This kind of comprehension and research, by dynamical neuroscientists, supersedes older mechanistic ideas, which were more like on off switches and considered brains as just very good computers.

In the same way it will eventually be recognised, by all scientists, that all forces are generated by flow and dynamic interactions rather than transfer of particles. Many are still at the "The universe must be like a computer" stage. Bosons will be seen to be just artificial mathematical constructs which enable the results of dynamic interactions to be handled rather than actual particles that are transferred.

The amount of information within a dynamic system will be enormous but rather than thinking of individual bits of information one should be considering the physics of the whole dynamic system, in my opinion. Many professions and industries already use quaternion mathematics to model such dynamic systems. The development and use of these kinds of models will enable the comprehension of the universal system at all scales more readily.

Building up from bits of information is like a hydrological engineer looking at individual water molecules to work out how water will flow in a complex system involving vortices and eddies and gradients etc, etc.

Quantum gravity will not be found because sub atomic particles are able to move in both directions along the 4th dimension and are influenced by their local environment where forces other than gravity have a much greater influence, because of the sub atomic particles minuscule mass.It is these local environmental effects that will determine the particles potential energy. However macroscopic matter is in continuous afore ward motion along the 4th dimension, which gives rise to subjective time and gravity. This continuous motion is always from higher to lower potential energy (from 4th dimensional perspective.). Although because of the motion of objects within 3D vector space, it is not a constant change but a fluctuation in amount of afore ward change in position and a fluctuation in potential energy of objects observed in 3D vector space.

Hello dear Georgina,

It's so interesting your point of vue.

the sub atomic particles minuscule mass.....let's imagine the ultimate coded particle...

The transfer via synapses is indeed a dynamics in correlation with universal dynamics,the physic parameters of our biology ,and that always with a global learning and analyses.

The behavior of elementary particles subjected to the strengths and fundamental constants always ,.

I think that the notion of time and the notion of evolution of our constructive polarization are very important for a whole and global vision.

Let's imagine a foundamental spheroidal system and its connections ....in the small world and of our particles and their codes and our Universe,with the time/space building...the increase of connections must be considered in all centres of interest,...

YOU SAY

It is these local environmental effects that will determine the particles potential energy. However macroscopic matter is in continuous afore ward motion along the 4th dimension, which gives rise to subjective time and gravity. This continuous motion is always from higher to lower potential energy (from 4th dimensional perspective.). Although because of the motion of objects within 3D vector space, it is not a constant change but a fluctuation in amount of afore ward change in position and a fluctuation in potential energy of objects observed in 3D vector space.

Coded math world of particles.... time space....,potential energy as you say and spheric comportments...combinations

yousay that all forces are generated by flow and dynamic interactions rather than transfer of particles..it's important what you say ,the biology ,the chemistry,the physic,the math,the computing ,the philosophy...are linked but are differents in their dynamics.

Thanks ,I am learning all days ,thanks for that .

It completes my point of vue with new datas ,links ,connections....synergies are fantastics.

A very magic world and still so many secrets to discover .

Kinds Regards

Steve

A very magic world and still so many secrets to discover .

On the link http://www.wuala.com/FreemoveQuantumExchange/Documents/FreeMove+Quantum+Exchange+Physical+Law.pdf a proof of the physical law W=n/e is given. This physical law proves that the quantum physical state-space and mathematical state-space from which it emerges are completely independent. In general, the collision probability of a mathematical state-space with n equiprobable states is (1-1/n)^n=1/e. Because this physical law proves that W/n

Talk of 3 dimensional objects able to contain themselves. The Klein bottle was given as an example of an object that partially contains itself, but not completely. How about the child's water snake toy? This is a hollow water filled soft rubber tube like object.With a single wall that forms both outside and inside. When squeezed the inside rubber is squeezed out and becomes the outside and the outside is pulled in to become the inside rubber.when squeezed in this way it can be difficult to hold onto the snake and prevent it escaping from the hands.I think this qualifies, though it can not contain all of itself at one time. However it can contain all of itself if it is considered over time (or as an object changing position along a 4th spatial dimension)as well as in 3D vector space i.e. if another dimension is included, in which the 3 dimensional object exists.Perhaps mathematical possibilities should not be excluded just because they are not obviously apparent in 3D space.

I think all the quantum puzzles can be easily understood by examining some certain shared a priori-assumptions that make it possible for ourselves to comprehend nature.

But before i come to my point, i must explain first what i mean with my first sentence here. This first sentence would be somewhat circular if one ignores a crucial fact about the very nature of quantum physics. It would be circular because starting that some of our a priori-assumptions in understanding nature could explain exactly this nature we are wondering about would be itself an a priori-assumption. And that because a priori-assumptions are at suspicion to not be able to contain more information (together with a theorem) that one can plug in to them. But in spite of this, our best scientific conclusions and hence theories (at first admittedly including quantum mechanics and its physical effects - for whatever reasons they might occur) - if they are true (even maybe though not under all circumstances) - afford and imply their (at least partial) self-understanding at some point in spacetime. this would be valid both in a strictly deterministic world as well as in a "randomly evoluting" world because of the fact that we can do effectivly physics and would be in my opinion a reason to be strongly perplexed.

On the grounds of this wonderment i assume the a priori-essence of all reality to be of logical and hence "intelligent" (but not necessarily consciousness in the sense of a human beeing) structure. Why? Because the glue that sticks together the (quantum) world is in my opinion a (let it be continous or discrete) field of more or less evolved and yet evolveable and evolving "truths" out of other "truths".

I will now come to the point: The structure of reality is governed by logical relations and some of them can be "more real" than others due to Gödel's and Löb's theorems. For example Gödel's famous 1931 implies - for the aim of my discussion! - that undecidable statements (at least in maths) are consistent but incomplete and not vice versa. My assumption here is that indeed we live in a consistent world that is incomplete concerning its final information content.

For me it turns out that self-governed logical relations evolve due to negative selection effects thereby conserving continously their main axioms from the start. For example Löb's theorem can be formulated in the way

"if this sentence is true, then the moon consists of cheese"

which is a tautology because it conserves its consequence into its antecedent (and vice versa!). It can be therefore written as

"if the moon consists of cheese, then the moon consists of cheese"

which is obviously as true as any other statement of the form "if x exists, then x exists" and selects out the self-referential antecedent above. Because tautologies are true under - most if not all - circumstances, i assume that these forms of logical propositions form the majority of our macrocosmical matter.

In our microcosmos i would apply a simple logical rule of proportion (rule of three) to gain insight into 3-dimensionality of space and time like following example shows:

"If Bruce is ill, he coughs" (Conditional statement)

"Bruce is ill" (Antecedent)

"Bruce coughs" (consequence wich is valued TRUE)

Now what about if we measure not the "antecedent" first, but the "consequence"? This would look like the following:

"If Bruce is ill, he coughs" (Conditional statement)

"Bruce coughs" (Antecedent)

"Bruce is ill" (consequence wich is valued UNDECIDABLE)

So if Bruce coughs, this will not necessarily mean, that he's indead ill (but it could mean exactly this!). The same appears if we swap antecedent and consequence in the conditional statement. So we have two true values and two fuzzy values. The latter sums up to one value because it is not distinguishable from each other. At the end we have approximately the proportion of 1/3 (two truth values and one fuzzy value) to wich the Bell's inequalities are violated in the experiment of Alan Aspect.

My opinion on the discussion of the nature of reality is that

1. reality is somewhat intelligent out of itself

2. "Truth" in the common and traditional sense is not only

an affair of existence/non-existence but can and will

be constructed continously (--> probabilities in QM).

3. Time is one of many constructive creations out of the

fundamental level of more or less "true" relationships.

4. Space is one of many constructive creations of the

fundamental level of more or less "true" relationships.

5. With the fact that human intelligence can divide

something into two parts (for example

into "inconsistency" and "incompleteness") one can

deduce that all reality flows out of an undivided,

consistent and unchangeable - yet unknown - ground.

6. I think that the notion of "information" in QM is the

best path to gain more insights into a "valid"

interpretation of QM.