Let’s Talk Time, Space & AI｜XPANSE 2024

Lorraine Ford
You can’t build a real world (or a symbolic man-made mathematics) out of numbers. You need categories (like mass, charge, or position), relationships between the categories, and numbers that apply to the categories, if you want to build a real world (or a symbolic man-made mathematics).

There are no exceptions: mathematicians investigating numbers must invent man-made categories of number, and find relationships between these man-made categories, if they want to investigate numbers. I.e. numbers, including the man-made concept of binary digit numbers, can never be the type of standalone entities that you could build a world out of.

But nor can mathematics ever be a standalone entity: man-made mathematics can’t exist without the consciousness and the inventiveness/ creativity/ agency of mathematicians. Human consciousness and creativity is necessary for man-made mathematics to ever exist.

The ONLY mathematics is man-made mathematics. But the real world is not strictly mathematical: it is more the case that aspects of the world are REPRESENTED using man-made mathematical symbols.

The real world is only somewhat like mathematics IF you include the consciousness and creativity of mathematicians. I.e., the world is more like a mathematical system, which requires logical elements that are comparable to the consciousness and creativity of mathematicians.

So, in order to talk about time, one first needs to looks at the real world as a system which requires logical elements, as well as the mathematical elements of the world that are symbolically represented as categories, relationships, and numbers.

The ONLY critical thinkers in physics are the ones who occasionally pop up saying things like: “… the Universe flies! It has a life to it that no equation has, and that life to it is a life with which we are also tied up.” (https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/John+Wheeler)

Physicists and mathematicians have seemingly indoctrinated themselves into believing that, if they just get their special, super-awesome equations right, then they will then have a representation of a universe, or a mathematical system, that “flies”.

Nothing could be further from the truth: no matter what their special, super-awesome equations are, they are still not sufficient to represent a world, or a mathematical system, that “flies”, they are “still missing the single, simple ingredient that makes it all fly.” (https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/John+Wheeler)

While physicist Julian Barbour has concluded from the awesome equations that time doesn’t exist, physicist Anthony Aguirre has completely given up and gone over to mystical beliefs about time: “I've come to believe that this [what is time?] is not a question that has an answer; that nature does not owe us an answer … once we let go of the feeling that there is a way that reality is, it's enormously freeing and I think that's true of time”.

But how can Julian Barbour and Anthony Aguirre have valid views about time, when they haven’t yet been able to symbolically represent a mathematical world that “flies”?

Obviously, something completely different to equations is required in order to symbolically represent a mathematical world that “flies”.

Lorraine Ford
Obviously, in addition to the symbols for equations, categories and numbers, something completely different is required in order to symbolically represent a mathematical world that “flies”, i.e. a viable, moving real-world mathematical system.

So, I’m saying that, in order to represent a viable, moving real-world mathematical system, you also need to use logical connective/ algorithmic symbols like IF, AND, OR, IS TRUE, and THEN.

But “IS TRUE” is actually what is consciously felt to be, or consciously known to be, TRUE. Because, in the real world that we live in, there is no evidence that such a thing as an objective truth exists, or a Platonic truth exists, or a Platonic realm exists. The only evidence of truth we have is to be found in subjective consciousness. “Right” or “wrong”, subjective consciousness is the actual decider of truth, and IS TRUE represents subjective consciousness.

So how does this apply to “time”? I’m saying that time is about what is consciously felt to be true, i.e. felt to be true by matter (i.e. particles, atoms, molecules and living things including human beings).

I’m saying that time can be represented in something like the following way:

IF (∆position OR ∆speed OR ∆charge) IS TRUE, THEN ∆time IS TRUE

Or, more correctly:

IF (∆position OR ∆speed OR ∆charge) IS TRUE, THEN time = time+1 (or time = time+n, where n is some number)

One needs to use logical connective/ algorithmic symbols not only in order to represent a viable, moving real-world mathematical system, but one needs to use logical connective/ algorithmic symbols in order to represent time.

Lorraine Ford
The difference between a set of equations and a system, is that with a system, the elements of the system can be interrogated about the state of the system, and the state of the system can be adjusted if required.

With our standalone self-sufficient real-world system, where by definition there is nothing outside of it doing any interrogation or adjustment, the basic elements of the system (i.e. the particles, atoms, and molecules) need to know their own state (know the numbers that apply to their own categories) and need to be able to adjust their own state (jump the numbers that apply to their own categories).

The way to symbolically represent this knowledge/ consciousness of the on-the-spot state of the system, and to symbolically represent the creative act of adjusting the on-the-spot state of the system, is with logical connective/ algorithmic symbols like IF, AND, OR, IS TRUE, and THEN.

I’m suggesting that time is a non-specific marker that the specific on-the-spot state of the system has jumped. I.e. time is a non-specific category of knowledge/ information that is logically derived from specific knowledge/ information about the on-the-spot state of the system

So, I’m suggesting that time is a logically/ algorithmically derived, higher-level category of information, where this knowledge/information is possessed by the elements of the system.

Lorraine Ford
People, with their puffed-up sense of human importance, seem to find it difficult to comprehend the fact that the fundamental-level parts of the system that drives the world, must in fact have a type of knowledge of, have a type of awareness of, their own on-the-spot, special and distinctive categories, relationships and numbers, out of all the possible categories, relationships and numbers that could potentially exist.

This is the basic level of consciousness/ knowledge, consciousness/ knowledge that in effect says that these particular categories, relationships and numbers are true, where this consciousness/ knowledge is possessed by the basic parts of the real-world system (particles, atoms, molecules).

But the time category is seemingly slightly different. So, time is not a dimension, or a category derived from a mathematical relationship. The time category is seemingly the result of a primitive analysis of an on-the-spot situation, an analysis performed by the parts of the system (particles, atoms, molecules, and living things including human beings), that results in the knowledge that something has changed, i.e. the consciousness/ knowledge that one or more numbers have jumped.

Of course, this type of knowledge, possessed by the system or parts of the system, is already assumed in the delta symbols found in physicists’ equations that represent law of nature relationships. But the time category seems to merely register that number jump change has occurred, rather than being concerned about the specific magnitude of the number jumps that have occurred for other categories.

The world, by definition, is standalone and self-sufficient: there is nothing outside of the world meddling in the world.

At the foundations of the world lies, not a mathematical system, but what created, moves and knows (what human beings would symbolically represent as) the mathematical system.

What created, moves and knows the mathematical system is the world itself, and the parts of the world (particles, atoms, molecules and living things including human beings). These creative, conscious parts only exist in the context of the whole.

But what created, moves and knows computer systems/ AIs is human beings, who thousands of years ago created and started using, manmade written and spoken symbols, and recently created and programmed machines to process these manmade symbols. These computer systems, like all manmade systems, only exist in the context of human beings: they are not standalone and self-sufficient.

It is disappointing when physicists and other people fail to look at the bigger picture context in which things like mathematical laws of nature exist, and the bigger picture context in which computers/ AIs exist, and try to claim that these laws and AIs could be standalone and self-sufficient.

Lorraine Ford
The most fundamental aspects of the world are, not a mathematical structure, but what created, knows and moves the mathematical structure.

There is nothing natural about a mathematical structure:

• Factually, mathematics is manmade, and mathematical symbols are manmade, and the existence of mathematics relies on human consciousness and creativity; and
• Factually, people need to use manmade mathematics and manmade mathematical symbols to represent fundamental aspects of the world.

It is in this context that we should be thinking about a “time” category in the world: in the context of a world where the most basic aspects are creativity/ free will and knowledge/ consciousness.

The only way to attempt to symbolically represent these creative and knowledge aspects of the world is with manmade logical connective/ algorithmic symbols.

Lorraine Ford
The most fundamental aspects of the world are, not a mathematical structure, but what created, knows and moves the mathematical structure.

Once the world created its own categories, and then created relationships between the categories, and then created numbers and assigned the numbers to the categories, then there were logical consequences, known only to the source of logic and knowledge, i.e. low-level consciousness.

(The high-level, executive-level, need-to-know consciousness of living things should be distinguished from fundamental, low-level consciousness.)

E.g., once the world created a space category, with 3 dimensions (X, Y, and Z), with associated numbers, and with inter-dimensional relationships such that Pythagoras' theorem holds true, then the number pi is seemingly a logical consequence, known to the source of logic and knowledge, i.e. known to low-level consciousness.

It is in this context that we should be thinking about a “time” category in the world: in the context of a world where the most basic aspects are creativity/ free will/ agency and logic/ knowledge/ consciousness.

Lorraine Ford
There are no such things as free-floating, objectively existing, Platonic numbers, that the real-world system somehow, mysteriously, knows about and utilises.

Like anything, numbers can only be known about because of real-world relationships that exist between real-world categories, relationships that connect numbers into the real world.

So, real-world numbers can only exist as real-world relationships between real-world categories, where the numerator and denominator categories cancel out, leaving a thing (a number) that has no category.

Real-world pi too, can only exist because of real-world relationships that exist between real-world categories. In this case, pi is a deduction that relies on the existence of inter-dimensional relationships in the space category, inter-dimensional relationships such that Pythagoras' theorem holds true.

Real-world pi is not a free-floating, objectively existing, Platonic number, but a calculation which approaches a limit; real-world pi is a logical deduction that relies on the existence of inter-dimensional relationships in the space category, relationships such that Pythagoras' theorem holds true.

It is in this context that we should be thinking about a “time” category in the world: in the context of a world where low-level logic/ knowledge/ consciousness exists.

Lorraine Ford
Re the abovementioned creativity:

I think I should add that the creativity of the universe is, obviously, very limited when it comes to the individual small parts of the universe (particles, atoms, molecules) creating some aspects of their own “bodily” outcomes (as opposed to 100% of outcome numbers being fully determined by law of nature relationships).

It is only when it comes to organisms, and organisms working together, that creating some aspects of one’s own personal bodily outcomes becomes significant (e.g. moving one’s own body parts to write or speak words, moving one’s own body parts to plan for and make weapons, moving one’s own body parts to fire guns).

However, I think physicists would rather eat their own feet rather than admit to the fact that we live in a type of world where people really, really, genuinely do, freely create their own bodily outcomes; we live in a type of world where people, and people working together, really, really, genuinely do, CAUSE outcomes like wars.

The physics “measurement problem” only occurs because physicists refuse to believe that we could live in a type of world where matter really does have a level of control over its own outcomes.

Lorraine Ford
Re physics “measurement problem”, and what physics is actually saying about the type of world we live in:

People are not fooled by what physics (and much of philosophy) is saying about the world.

People have the impression that physics is saying that every child killed or maimed in war was inevitable, only because that in fact is what most physicists are, in effect, saying about the world, with their equations, and their quasi-religious view that matter is fully puppeted by the equations.

Physicists are fully aware of what they are saying about the world. I guess that there are some people who are too young or naïve to fully grasp what physics (and much of philosophy) is saying about the type of world we live in.

Because of their quasi-religious beliefs, physicists can’t accept that we live in a type of world where matter (particles, atoms, molecules, and living things including people) really does have a level of control over its own outcomes, i.e. matter can jump its own numbers.

When physicists (and philosophers) start facing facts about the type of world we live in, they can then start to consider the nature of the “time” category.

I see time simply as a measure of duration.

Here is a conclusion of a recent paper I submitted to Synthese:

"While time has been called the fourth dimension in many circles, I submit that motion, being more intrinsically connected to space and dependent on the lower dimension, should be more seriously considered by the scientific community as the fourth spatial dimension. Beyond that, as force is intrinsically dependent on motion, it could be seen as a fifth and final spatial dimension that defines physical reality. Further still, the complexities of force and motion replicated in different forms of pathways and histories seem to point to the concept of possibility, which is a non-spatial concept that exists within the consciousness of living beings and leads to the existence of other core existential concepts such as will and choice."

Lorraine Ford

Force causes change, and force and motion are dependent on each other. I still think my concept of motion as a fourth dimension of space makes sense. Space is needed for motion to happen. I hope you read the whole article. I went on to explain that force could be the 5th spatial dimension, because force needs and causes motion, which happens in space.

I didn't simply relabel time as duration, I noted that time is the measurement of duration-- of motion.

"If indeed such things as dimensions actually exist" Yes dimensions exist. They are defined as a measurable extent of some kind. It's pretty basic understanding if you are expected to comprehend the nature of my paper. Motion and force are measurable qualities that happen in the spatial world.

saintstuart
More precisely, what is meant by “change” is “number change”,

where the numbers apply to categories like force or position or energy. The categories don’t change; the mathematical relationships between the categories don’t change.

But when you look at physics’ mathematical equations, that represent the relationships between the categories, you can see that there is a problem: the equations, with their delta symbols, ASSUME number change, but there is no explanation for why the numbers that apply to the categories WOULD ever change. Of course, IF some numbers that apply to some of the categories did ever change, THEN other numbers that apply to other categories would also change due to the mathematical relationships between the categories. But there is still the problem of why the numbers ever changed in the first place, and why the numbers continue to change.

Can everyone agree or not? Change isn’t a vague, imprecise concept. What is meant by “change” is “number change”, where the numbers apply to categories like force or position or energy, and these categories and numbers in turn apply to matter, where, looked at from the point of view of matter, these categories and associated numbers “are true”.

It is only the numbers that change; the various categories stay the same, and the various mathematical relationships between the categories (represented by equations) stay the same.

Categories can’t morph into other categories, and equations can’t morph into other equations. But also, numbers are not the types of things that can morph into other numbers: in order to change, the numbers that apply to categories can only “jump” or be “jumped” via the assignment of new numeric values to the categories, whereby other numbers also jump due to the mathematical relationships between the categories.

Number change can only consist of number jumps, where, as opposed to the idea of a gooey blancmange of smoothly morphing numbers, definite number “jumps” are the only way to delineate time, where time is seen as nothing more than the recognition that change has occurred. Looked at from the point of view of matter, what “is true” is that change has occurred, i.e. what “is true” is that time has advanced.

The idea of time as an independently existing “dimension” is completely superfluous: time as an independently existing “dimension” doesn’t exist. Time can only exist as a recognition, from the point of view of matter, that change has occurred.