Readers' Choice: Much Ado About Nothing

[deleted]

Hi Peter,

I found a better article about the Lorentz transformation. It's better only because it states the two postulates, one of which is wrong.

http://www.physics.umd.edu/~yakovenk/teaching/Lorentz.pdf

1. The equivalence of all inertial reference frames and

2. the invariance of the speed of light.

Actually, #1 is correct for non accelerating frames of reference. Gravity is considered to be an accelerating reference frame because of the Equivalence Principle.

#2 I happen to agree with, but you think it's wrong.

Mmm...

[deleted]

Peter,

I found a great link that supports time dilation and length contraction.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Relativ/muon.html#c3

[deleted]

Hi Peter,

Here is another link that describes how GR and SR work well for the GPS sattelite system.

http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Ast162/Unit5/gps.html

pjackson

You must dream less and concentrate Jason!

I do NOT disagree with EITHER postulate. and CSL is Constant Speed of Light.

Ant the experimenters HAVE been at work. It's just that all results conflict with the STR (but not GR). I could give you a heap of doctorial papers and experimental evidence challenging & 'disproving' the LT. There are a few key experiments here.

http://web.stcloudstate.edu/ruwang/ and one more of many; http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0502007v6 Experimental evidence of the ether-dragging hypothesis in GPS data Authors: Masanori Sato.

And don't believe the GPS propaganda, that even nasa knows is nonsense. The best of many here is probably; http://arxiv.org/abs/0912.3818v2

You really need to look at these as they expose the obvious flaws in the ones you cite above.

Not a single bit of evidence supposedly 'proving' LT and the STR has been falsified and all has been taken apart, and NONE of the contrary evidence from space exploration etc proved incorrect. It also CAN'T POSSIBLY WORK with QM! The old paradygm ONLY still rules as it's still in the text books, warts, paradoxes and all, and because we've never found a more consistent solution to the CSL to replace it!! And as Popper said, its a humal weakness that NO paradigm will ever be replaced till there's a better one to replace it.

That's what makes the Discrete field Model so central and important, it's the first falsifiable solution ever that explains CSL, AND in a quantum friendly way.

And it's reeealy simple! - and Einsteins was sooo close to it when he died!

We only have to remember that EVERYTHING in relative motion with anything else is in a different inertial frame, apply the postulates to that, and identify the (well known) quantum mechanism at the frame boundaries.

But mainstream physics is so deep in a rut, drowning in muddied waters, that it's unable to escape. It can't even remember the problem let alone find the solution!!

Thus my continued search for more intelligent life.

Am I having any luck?

Peter

[deleted]

Dear Peter,

For 100 years, we've been debating the particle-wave duality. Only now, it's elevated to a whole new level. You are arguing that the aether/inertial frame sets the speed of light. But quantum mechanics says the speed of light is only governed by c = lambda*f and is independent of the medium.

What if both are true? We have particle-wave duality. What if we have aether-no aether duality. What if photons are creating quantumly entangled pathways framework/structures that look like inertial frames?

I have a head ache now.

[deleted]

Dear Peter,

Just curious. If I bolt down a laser and fire it at a fixed place on the wall, I can mark that place with a marker. Next, I place a spinning super conductor below and around the laser.

Can I get the spinning superconductor to frame drag the aether/Higgs field in such a way as to make the laser miss or deviate from where we marked it?

pjackson

Hi Jason

You need to slow down and think a little more clearly. The medium ALWAYS dictates EM wave speed, glass, water, air, gas, etc. c=lambda*f always works with a medium or not. It's just modified by refractive index 'n', which is set at 1 for space. The only question is; IS the vacuum a medium.

Absolutely all experiments point to a 2.7 degree dark energy Higgs or whoever quantum field interstellar medium. Only the STR said it couldn't be 'immobilile' for the purposes of light, in offering a solution (if paradox ridden) to constancy of 'c' (CSL).

But now there's a better solution to CSL, that bridges the chasm with QM, so there's absolutely no reason to continue 'ether denial'!

There was a typo in my earlier post, it's SilBerstein. I've just come across this paper backing up Stokes-Planck ether, which my DFM just adds the finishing touches and proofs to;

http://www.wbabin. net/historical/ silberstein2. pdf> recent

Eclipse Results and Stokes-Planck Aether

Then, when you've visualised an inertial frame simply as a moving bus, just look up any good Optics text book to solve duality, either classically or quantum, with Huygens and Ewald-Oseen extinction or simply electrons re-emitting photons at 'c' in new and co-moving media.

And you don't need fancy spinning superconductors to bend light! Look again at the experiments in my last paper and you'll see some much simpler ways!

Peter

[deleted]

Dear Peter,

I can buy the idea that space-time/Higgs field/aether is a big froth of wave functions; the inherent property of wave functions is that they don't give you exact measurements, they give you dice, chance and probability. What I cannot go along with is the idea that photon waves are ripples in an invisible pond. In other words, the absolute velocity of light, c, makes sense. If wave functions are the "invisible pond", then it's nothing like what we imagine as a calm slow moving pond.

By the way, you said, "And you don't need fancy spinning superconductors to bend light! " Does that mean that the laser cannot be deflected. Gotta go, girlfriend is dragging me out of the house.

pjackson

Hi Jason

They're not 'photon waves', they're simply pressure fluctuations of EM energy, running through the field. (Higgs, Dark energy, EM, call ut what you may).

If you did am Optics course you'd learn that photon particles, or AE's 'wave bundles', are condensed when waves (phase) coincide as the energy is equal to the square of the amplitude. This happens at changes of media (n) and, (not such a core concept), changes of medium velocity (frame boundaries). That's Huygens-Fresnel, (new oscillators at the interface), Fourier optics etc. which is all well proven and extends to Ewald-Oseen Extinction etc.

The only problem seems to be it's mainly dorks take optics courses! If cosmologists took them they'd see this;

The remaining non extinct wave travels at 'c' with respect to the NEW medium speed!

The quantum analogy is, the boundary electrons of the new medium re-emit the photons at the NEW medium speed.

Therefore there was no reason for Lorentz to have resorted to contraction, or Einstein to have needed to ever 'remove' the ether to explain constant light speed, confounding us with perpetual paradox. (actually he knew that when he said 'space without ether is unthinkable'). And the missing quantum link with the postulates of SR has of course also now been found.

But it still seems I'm searching for the intelligent life who can understand that, or actually, for a way of explaining it that anyone with reasonable intelligence can understand.

I really thought you'd got it, but you keep reverting back to the distorted picture/viewpoint you started from, from which the solution is invisible. I'm beginning to feel it needs the problem itself better clarified before the solution can be seen.

Does any of that help in the slightest?

Peter

[deleted]

Hi Peter,

You said, "I really thought you'd got it, but you keep reverting back to the distorted picture/viewpoint you started from, from which the solution is invisible. I'm beginning to feel it needs the problem itself better clarified before the solution can be seen."

In order to "fix" relativity, you have to show clear evidence that it's broken. Then, you have to show that your solution will fix the problem.

I was talking to my girlfriend about light/wave-functions. I came up with this analogy. Photons transmit information/causality by traveling along a super highway/road system made out of wave functions; I call it the Higgs field; it can also be called space-time. This wave function Higgs field has energy levels that correspond to a gravitational potential energy. Strangely enough, these energy levels control the clock (flow of time) through time dilation. Time dilation is related to frequency shifting.

[deleted]

Hi peter,

You asked: "Does any of that help in the slightest?" Well, I'm a truth seeker. By looking more closely at your argument, I will either discover an error in my ideas or an error in yours. Here is the score...

1. I can answer the question: what are the working/operational elements of physics? Physics is NOT made out of mathematics because nobody has ever measured a math symbol. Physics is made out of (a) photons and (b) wave-functions.

2. What is space-time/GR made out of? Answer: a really big froth of wave functions.

3. What are wave-functions? They are photon wave guides. They provide a range of possible paths that light can take. Wave functions have gravitational energy levels. Gravitational energy levels can span beyond the 1019 Hz range from radio waves to gamma rays. This can lead to the appearance of event horizons. These energy levels directly (without a middle man) lead to red shift and blue shift. Oddly enough, transitions between energy levels is equivalent to time dilation, a measurable effect.

4. What is space-time curvature? Yes, it's gravity. It's also an effect of length contraction. Any time there is a red-shift/blue shift upon a photon or along its path, then time dilation occurs as well. If there i time dilation, then, automatically, there is length contraction; length contraction results in curvature of space-time (curvature of the Higgs field), which results in a gravity field.

5. The laws of physics are driven by "appearances"; what the Higgs field/space-time looks like to an observer. Appearances result from the dependency upon photons and their wave-functions. That's why if you're driving 55mph and you slam on the breaks, your head hits the staring wheel. You are changing the kinetic energy of your vehicle. In doing so, you change your energy level within space-time (Higgs field). All of the wave functions that attach you/your vehicle to the Higgs field (space-time), experience a potential energy slope (change in energy) over a distance, resulting in a force that throws your head against the staring wheel aka, an inertial force.

All of this is based on a constant speed of light.

If I throw out length contraction, as you suggest, than gravity doesn't make sense any more.

6. Electrons HAVE TO observe photons to arrive at the speed of light because they see the photon's momentum,

[math]\vec p = \frac {h}{\lambda} = h \vec k[/math]

and the photon's energy,

[math]E = hf[/math]

The electron has a built in calculator that calculates

[math]c = \lambda f[/math]

Your clocks and rulers are all working for the photon.

Gravity wouldn't work if length contraction and time dilation were not functioning through the Higgs field/wave function froth. Length contraction and time dilation require a constant speed of light.

If you want an FTL M87, you have to consider that the Higgs field can span a frequency/gravitational energy range greater than 1019Hz. In doing so, time dilation is built in. In an M87 FTL jet, I wouldn't be surprised if the the inner cylinder was anti-gravitational with time "contraction"/quick-time clock effects.

pjackson

Hi Jason

You said; "In order to "fix" relativity, you have to show clear evidence that it's broken. Then, you have to show that your solution will fix the problem."

That's fair. But I only need to refer you to the chasm between QM and SR and ALL eminent physicists, NOT complacent student text book physics). Einstein searched for solution, and trying to link 'Reality' with 'Locality'] saying; the problem "can't be solve[d at the same level of awareness that created it" and "We still do not know 1000th of 1% of what nature has revealed to us." and "we have to admit that we do not possess any general theoretical basis for physics, which can be regarded as its logical foundation". (1940) "I hope that someone will discover a more realistic way, or rather a more tangible basis than it has been my lot to find." (1944) and "The important thing is not to stop questioning."

Feynman also said it would take a new way of thinking, Penrose etc, and now Hawking called it the 'Holy Grail' of physics. They are chalk and cheese. The reaosns are comprehensice and complex, but it's all about SR's paradox ridden solution to CSL, (including contraction) removing the fields we know exist and allowing no possible quantum basis for CSL.

SR's solution is; Consider 2 astronauts in space in relative motion. Each has an equal right to say he is at rest and it's the other that's moving. In ohter words, there is no physical way of telling what speed anything is moving in space. But since space travel and accelerators all the evidence says we CAN tell the difference! and we CAN measure absolute velocity by speed x distance! (just look at NASA data - Gezari papers, etc etc). But no-one has yet found a quantum freindly alternative that allows a background field to rid us of all the paradox. So we're still in total confusion.

As Essen said, SR has been a great cause for delay in developing science. We need the solution soon!

So.. You should now forget all your amateur (sorry - but true) largely wayward and unfalsifiable preconceptions and focus on the key issue, which will lead to more answers than you could shake a stick at!

The answer will be a quantum mechnism that will make all our speed measurements of EM waves or photons come out to 'c', no matter what speed the emitter or observer are doing.

Simple really. But it needs focus on the real issue. The problem has been that everyone goes off on tangents chasing red herrings and getting lost again in the mist of confusion! Can you see and do that?

Peter

Oh, and PS. I forgot about bending lasers; I can do it simply by waving at them. You can too. Everything with an EM field (i.e. everything with any condensed matter, i.e. everything) bends light to some extent. We could even make it go in circles if we could build enough enormous electro magnets! (apparently CERN etc already have).

[deleted]

Hello Peter,

What you call the aether, I call the Higgs field. The Higgs field is nothing but a gigantic wave function (solution to the Hamiltonian). The two slit interference pattern is really no surprise because the Higgs field permeates both slits anyway. The wave function is already there. Single photons (or electrons) travel as waves along the wave function; the wave function is also wave guide. The idea that electrons or photons are particles (self contained objects) is the delusion.

I live in an apartment complex; it takes up the whole block and takes me about ten minutes to jog around it's circumference. It's not localized to me. But if you look at a map of Portland, it's a dot. If it's a dot, then it looks like a particle.

Electrons are like apartments. They look like dots or particles from far away (or a large scale). When you get up close (observe the quantum scale), the are localized electromagnetic disturbances of energy 0.550 MeV. They are embedded in the Higgs field (giant wave function) and have virtual photons (E&M mediators) traveling into and out of the electromagnetic disturbance (electron).

The same is true for protons. For two protons at the LHC, they fly past each other at 0.999c. Photons from proton A lose energy (red shift) as they arrive at proton B. Likewise, photons from proton B have to redshift to arrive at proton A. In each case, there is a wave function that spans between the two protons. The photons travel along that wave function. Time dilation occurs as a symmetry of red-shifting. Red shift and time dilation are different manifestations of the same phenomena; this phenomena occurs along the wave function.

*DANGER* Do not mistake wave functions to be physical objects like wires or water. They have an ethereal existence sufficient to satisfy the Hamiltonian, permit a Least-Time pathway for light, and cause gravity through length contraction.

There is some connection between length contraction and Ricci Curvature/space-time Metric. I suspect it, but it's beyond my grasp right now.

You said, "So.. You should now forget all your amateur (sorry - but true) largely wayward and unfalsifiable preconceptions and focus on the key issue, which will lead to more answers than you could shake a stick at!"

If what I say is not falsifiable, it's because I built it upon accepted physics. The Occam's razor solution to GR and QM points to wave function and photon characteristics. I am only working with energy (K/U), momentum, conservation laws, and thought experiments. I insist upon causality because time travel catastrophically violates conservation of energy. Wave functions are QM solutions to the Hamiltonian (Shrodinger equation). Wave functions tell you where electrons/photons/energy can be (with probabilities). They are like roads, highways and parking lots. They are the road system for photons and other quantum particles.

You cannot talk about aethers and reference frames unless you address the "particle-space" question: are inertial reference frames related to wave functions?

[deleted]

Hi Jason

Yes, I still do like the way you think, even if it is often wayward.

Subject to terminology I agree you're now largely on the right track, apart from one glaring wrong turn that will prevent progress.

Length contraction, never demonstrated and the cause of most padadox, was 'invented' to explain something that can now be far better explained. The reason you find it 'beyond my grasp' is because it cannot logically exist.

If I observe Concord flying past with a glass tube wave guide firmly fixed to the side, and light pulses are sent along it from tail to nose; It it the whole plane that shrinks when the pulses are observed? Or is it just the wave guide that shrinks? and if so, are the passengers warned about the expolsive decompression they'll suffer when the wave guide rips itself off the fusilage!? There are many much better falsifications, but we'll stay a race in denial until we recognise an alrenative.

You actually almost solve the riddle yourself asking; "are inertial reference frames related to wave functions?"

Yes. Very much so. But you need to get a bit closer to reality as a 'function' is simply a formulae. The Doppler shifts we observe don't occurr when they meet a formulae in space! There is a real mechanism the formulae describes mathematically.

Here's the relationship; When a signal moves between inertial frames (co-moving media) it's wavelength (space) and frequency (time) vary to conserve the energy. Imagine you're floating at rest in space observing a fishtank moving towards a light source. From your viewpoint wavelength is reduced inside the tank to conserve frequency (blue shift) and you'll observe the 'rate of change of position' as 'c'. But if you're inside the tank; you'll observe frequency conserved and wavelength reduced (maintaining 'c' in your frame).

Even with above average intellect you'll need to think about that and picture it carefully many times to understand it! One you do, IF you do!, you'll then need to consider yourself accelerating between frames, in which case you'll see frequency increased to balance a wavelength reduction, to conserve 'c'.

I'm worried if you'll manage it as your derivation of red shift in your post was wrong, if the two are approaching the wave peaks would 'close up' on meeting, which gives blue shift NOT red shift.

This will need a lot more focus than you've shown so far! But it will be worthwhile, So treat it as an intelligence test, not a springboard for another flight of fancy!

Remember CSL is always valid LOCALLY. We CAN see c+v so contraction isn't needed and physics is really quite simple.

Best of luck

Peter

[deleted]

Hi Peter,

Yes, I suppose my thoughts are often wayward. In my defense, I am looking for practical and useful ideas, solutions and experiments. I was looking at the Feynman lectures. I wanted to learn more about refractive index and Fermat's Least Time principle. I can see quantum wave functions written all over the optics. The quantum waves already have a course laid out for whatever laser or beam of light that might happen to fall upon the optics. It is important to remember that this wave function already existed, it was created when the lens was created. This optical wave function moves with the lens. If we want to say that the lenses wave function is similar/same/identical to its inertial reference frame, I can entertain that idea. The lens' wave function extends to infinity. And yet, if we cast a shadow over it (put it in a box), that wave function vanishes.

If I am going to talk about optical systems (O) moving towards/away from light (laser) sources (S), I need to calculate from a start position, where O and S are at rest with respect to each other. In order to calculate what happens when the O and S are in relative motion, I need to include the effects of acceleration. Beyond that, I would have to take classes on relativistic optics.

As for the Concorde flying along a wave guide cable, recall the admonition, "Believe only half of what you see..." The plane only looks like it length contracts relative to a stationary observer (a bird sitting on the cable).

pjackson

Jason.

You weren't thinking; Does Concorde suddenly shrink for a few secs when the pulses are being sent then get bigger again!?? It simply doesn't work! Look up the NPA to see the truth about SR from many of the top professors worldwide.

Rather than have to deal with acceleration (GR and curves) in your experiment it'd be far less confusing considering two identical optical systems side by side, but one in motion and one not.

What you'll find is, as the (correct) SR postulates say, that light goes through each optical system at precisely the same speed with respect to the system itself. You could have a hundred systems on any vector, and you'd find the light in each cares not a jot which way the universe or any particular bit of it is going wrt the system it's in. In will damn well do the speed of that wave function locally and to hell with anywhere else!

You will of course always find it Doppler shifted in accordance with it's motion, but it will always be doing 'c' (or Cn) locally.

Even better. If you move the source, you'll find the velocity of light crossing the space to the optical system doing 'c' wrt the space NOT the emitter! Again this is what SR says, and this bit is correct. What is INcorrect nonsense is the assumption that there is no 'medium' in that space for light to be propagated 'with respect to!' (demanding contraction). What on earth does light do 'c' wrt if not the emitter or an intervening field?!! It's total nonsense.

But now we know light moves in the new optical system with respect to the sytem we no longer NEED to deny the medium in between. that optical system will always measure it at 'c' anyway! Job done.

This is not current mainstream physics, but I think you can now recognise that it's true, and how it can solve all it's problems. Or is the whole world really going down with dementia!

Peter

[deleted]

Hi Peter,

You said, "What is INcorrect nonsense is the assumption that there is no 'medium' in that space for light to be propagated 'with respect to!' (demanding contraction). "

Well, I've been arguing that there does exist such a field. I am calling it the Higgs field because "aether" is unpopular to the physics community. How fast does this Higgs field move? Ugh! I feel like this is where I drink the Koolaid. Well, there's probably some average velocity of the Higgs field that can be treated as v=0. But any such Higgs field velocity can be easily overruled by something more massive.

[deleted]

Hi Jason

Good. Now you have a solid foundation, but remember, though I've shown it CAN be consistent with the SR postulates a background field is NOT consistent with the popular interpretation of SR.

It turns out this is due to the incorrect additional assumption made to explain CSL, that any motion through a vacuum is undetectable and all motion is only 'relative' That error has been the cause of all our problems.

You've also hit the nail on the head discussing 'velocity'. But here's where you need to think very slowly and carefully;

Imagine the field is the EM field, 'attached' around all mass. The Earths EM field extends to our planetary shock, and EM waves go through it at 'c'.

BUT. Before those waves arrive at the shock (the field 'limit') they are going through the Heliosphere at 'c' wrt the SUN. And outside the Helispheres Termination / Bow Shock they're doing 'c' wrt the galaxy. (This entirely explains the Pioneer/Voyager anomalies).

In other words, locally, the field does average V = 0. And obviously each local field represnts an inertial frame. Light is propagated at 'c' wrt each field, so has to Doppler shift to maintain 'c' locally through each boundary.

This is as Einstein said; "space is actually infinitely many spaces in relative motion". and every massive object is "spatially extended." right down to a bunch of protons in the LHC, which form their own 'shock' cloud when they accelerate.

Take another slug of Koolaid, close your eyes, and visualise the 'infinitely many 'spaces" in relative motion. Einstein only fell short of working out how it worked in reality by the merest whisker!

So; Back to M87 etc; stretch those spaces into 'tubes within tubes' by blasting a stream of particles out of an EM vortex, and we could get across the surrounding space at over 6xC with less risk of called a crackpot!

Peter

[deleted]

Dear Peter,

What you are calling the E&M field around all mass, I am calling the Higgs field. The Higgs field is a "froth" of wave functions that is also observed to be the vacuum energy, and is responsible for the Casimir effect. Empty space is never really empty. It still contains wavefunctions which I call the Higgs field.

This Higgs field is calibrated to the speed of light c. This Higgs field is what causes SR and GR. Additionally, it also causes mass, m = E/c^2. The Higgs field (which is a froth of wave functions), will somehow manage to enforce that all observers observe a ray of light to move at c. Even if a high velocity rocket (v = 0.9c) with a fancy optical system, you can't get light to travel faster than the speed of light if you're still "connected" to the Higgs field. As the rocket's kinetic energy is increased, it's inertial frame will experience length contraction and time dilation. As long as the Higgs field around the spaceship is connected to the Higgs field of the universe, it cannot make light go faster than c.

To do that, the spaceship has to "sever" its connection with the universal Higgs field.

If a spaceship can repel the Higgs field around it, than that space-ship becomes a "particle" or object in hyper-space.

I'm not sure what is happening with M87. Yes, it is traveling FTL, but I'm not sure why.

pjackson

Hi Jason

I agree. You were winning, but tripped at the 2nd last hurdle! Why on earth would we need length contraction if there is a Higgs field!? It only needed to be invented to explain CSL with an empty vacuum.

It's never been observed. And, if it exists, how come that fibre optic cable fixed to the passing Concordes fusilage doesn't suddenly rip itself off to contract when a light pulse is sent through it, or Concorde suddenly 'ultrashrink' for a moment then go back to normal shrinkage when the pulse stops!? It's both logical and mathematical nonsense, and it's all that's left to confuse you.

Imagine M87 etc jets as fast flowing streams. No molecule is allowed to go past it's neighbour at more than 1mph. But, from the bank, the centre of the stream is moving at 7mph. It's in a different inertial frame so we CAN observe it at C+V realtive to the bank. But the light signal telling us that fact is recieved by us at 'c', as it's in our frame when received.

Wade out to the centre and measure the molecules immediately next to your skin and they'll only be doing 1mph.

If you float, you change inertial frame to theirs and you find their V = 0.

It's the only solution that meets all observation without paradox. Please tell me, what isn't simple and logical about it?

Peter

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