• [deleted]

hello lawrence,

actually lqg has noting to do with b-modes in the cmb. lqg makes no predictions, and like lqg "B-modes in the CMB are a prediction of gravitons in the early universe, so this is a prediction," is an unscientific, untestable prediction on par with "i predict that monkeys will fly out of your nose." speculative predictions do not a science make.

no need to politicize war as both the democrats and republicans promote war. obama increased the troops in afghanistan in a massive manner, leading to july being the deadliest month left. woodrow wilson, a democrat, ushered in the era of foreign intervention.

it is the federal reserve system that never changes which funds the wars while bankrupting the country, and it is that same federal reserve system which bailed out goldman sachs which funds the non-science of lqg, as a poster alluded to above. have you read ron paul's "end the fed?" as you are opposed to war, you would enjoy ron paul as he is also opposed to all the foreign wars on foreign shores. please read the book and let us know!

you wirte, "Anyway, to use the economic arguments, why don't we just close out physics entirely? Come on. lets take all these speculative people in universities and throw them out on their butts?"

Well, Feynman would agree with you that we ought get rid of the dishonest, fed-funded cargo cult science; and once we defund the arroagnce and fanatasy physics requiring expensive videogame consoles (like other fantasy games), then perhaps physics will come roaring back! after all, those plystations cost far more than einstein's funding during his annus mirablis--but today the elders would see no playstations and they would reject einstein's work.

here's feynman on lqg & string theory and the attitude of those who are placing us in debt to buy playstations:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_science

"But this long history of learning how not to fool ourselves--of

having utter scientific integrity--is, I'm sorry to say, something

that we haven't specifically included in any particular course that

I know of. We just hope you've caught on by osmosis.

The first principle is that you must not fool yourself--and you are

the easiest person to fool. So you have to be very careful about

that. After you've not fooled yourself, it's easy not to fool other

scientists. You just have to be honest in a conventional way after

that.

I would like to add something that's not essential to the science,

but something I kind of believe, which is that you should not fool

the layman when you're talking as a scientist. I am not trying to

tell you what to do about cheating on your wife, or fooling your

girlfriend, or something like that, when you're not trying to be

a scientist, but just trying to be an ordinary human being. We'll

leave those problems up to you and your rabbi. I'm talking about

a specific, extra type of integrity that is not lying, but bending

over backwards to show how you are maybe wrong, that you ought to

have when acting as a scientist. And this is our responsibility as

scientists, certainly to other scientists, and I think to laymen."

mr. crowell--you are violating feynman's spirit and maxim by not only promoting forty-year-old failed theoires, but by, rather than "bending

over backwards to show how you are maybe wrong," you are using words to obscure and cloak the failure and soullessness of your non-science, resulting in passages such as, "In this way, a bit of a long story may be told, while something else may provide how it all should look which is not all that hard to do and not much different from quantizing Maxwell's equations, if this is done on the proper level."

Never in a million years would Feynman get caught uttering such nonsense.

:)

  • [deleted]

This is not about cargo-cult science. That happens when people adamantly want a certain result to obtain, and are then willing to bend logic and reason to make it so.

The point about B-modes is this is a prediction concerning gravitons, whether that be string theory based, LQG or maybe some overlap of the two.

Cheers LC

  • [deleted]

but lawrence, the above writers are right.

lqg and string theory make absolutely no scientific predictions.

you are aware of this, right?

have you read woit or somlin? do you disagree with them?

  • [deleted]

lawrence, you write, "The point about B-modes is this is a prediction concerning gravitons, whether that be string theory based, LQG or maybe some overlap of the two."

so you are saying that both string theory and lqg each independently predict B-modes?

and when you overlap them, they still predict B-modes?

how do you overlap them? do you take the right side of string theory equations and match them with the left side of lqg equations?

and speaking of equations, could you please write out the

1) string theory equation which predicts B-modes

2) lqg equating which predicts B-modes

3) the overlapped string theory/lqg equation which predicts B-modes

thanks in advance! :)

  • [deleted]

To start with Woit and Smolin are LQG guys. I am not much on Woit, for I think he is too reactionary. Smolin is an LQG guy who is open to stringy ideas.

B-modes are due to the decoupling of gravitons in the early universe. There is some work to ferret this out with respect to tuning the cosmological constant with D-brane transversals, e-folds and so forth. To be honest I don't track the LQG stuff as closely, but I don't discredit the work. Through additional research closer bounds on the strength of B-modes and other aspects of CMB anisotropies can be worked and tested. The gravitons are stretched into very long wavelength gravity waves that stretch across the length of the CMB. This amounts to using the CMB as a "detector" of the universe far earlier than the end of the radiation dominated period.

As for some connections with particle physics, there are signatures of extra large dimensions at the RHIC. This paper by Nastase AdS-CFT and the RHIC fireball indicates signatures of AdS ~ BTZ physics with holography and, well quantum gravity.

The problem I see is that this seems to be a deluge of anti-intellectualism. The problem is not going to be solved in the next 5 years, and experimental or observational evidence is going to be rather oblique and difficult. This is a long term process. Remember that gravity is very weak, and further with quantization the scales are quite extreme. We are a bit like the ancient peoples who had speculations about atoms, yet the question is whether we will fail to push things, just as the ancients failed to observe atoms. These problems are hard enough, but it is disappointing to see people putting a lot of negativity on the problem.

Cheers LC

  • [deleted]

thanks lc,

actually woit is not an lqg guy at all. and lee smolin has never falsely claimed that lqg predicts anything. neither of them, unlike you, has ever claimed that lqg makes predictions.

but above you explain, "To be honest I don't track the LQG stuff as closely, but I don't discredit the work."

so basically you are claiming you know nothing about it, really, other than that it makes concrete predictions. again, where are the physical equations that you claim to exist? why didn't you state in your first posts that "To be honest I don't track the LQG stuff."

more and more you give us the sense that you are just playing games as that is what works these days, without ever saying anything.

you are hilarious: "We are a bit like the ancient peoples who had speculations about atoms, yet the question is whether we will fail to push things, just as the ancients failed to observe atoms. These problems are hard enough, but it is disappointing to see people putting a lot of negativity on the problem."

actually i would argue that the ancients had a far higher regard for truth and good will, and that you are doing them a disservice by launching ad hominem, emotional attacks on people who question your "knowledge" about lqg, which you now admit you do not really have.

you write:

The problem I see is that this seems to be a deluge of anti-intellectualism.

(yes--to feign knowledge that one does not have is highly anti-intellectual)

The problem is not going to be solved in the next 5 years, and experimental or observational evidence is going to be rather oblique and difficult.

(now you sound like you are reading from the quantum gravity/lqg talking points, ensuring funding to buy playstations for decades to come, if not millenia)

This is a long term process.

(so is chasing deceitful turkeys a one poster referred to above.)

Remember that gravity is very weak, and further with quantization the scales are quite extreme. (again, you do know that gravity has never been quantized and there is no evidence for quantum gravity whatsoever)

We are a bit like the ancient peoples who had speculations about atoms, yet the question is whether we will fail to push things, just as the ancients failed to observe atoms. (a billion billion false fantasies have been speculated on throughout history, the difference here being that they never received the billions of dollars that have exalted the quantum gravity regimes, which many might argue have brought science to a stand-still by twisting,cavorting, politicing, hyping, and pretending knowledge, all to defend playstations simulating non-theories)

These problems are hard enough, but it is disappointing to see people putting a lot of negativity on the problem.

(yes one must be very very negative to prefer hype, false knowledge, pure speculation, politics, and playstations over simple truth and beauty, as well as physical reality.)

Interesting how you label lovers of the truth as "negative," but that is what one gets funded to do these days by fiat dollars which place others in debt.

At any rate, objective readers will have a good laugh that you are finally now admitting that you don't really know anything about lqg, but merely like it because you are a "positive" person. lzozllzl!!!

  • [deleted]

LC--you write, "As for some connections with particle physics, there are signatures of extra large dimensions at the RHIC. This paper by Nastase AdS-CFT and the RHIC fireball indicates signatures of AdS ~ BTZ physics with holography and, well quantum gravity."

So you are now saying that leading scientists accept both 1) extra dimensions and 2) quantum gravity?

I do not believe this to be the case at all. Perhaps you can name a prominent scientist or two who sees extra dimensions and quantum gravity as facts of physical reality? I would love to confer with them!

Thanks in advance for their names! :)

  • [deleted]

Gravitons are what predict B-modes. String theory and LQG are theories which predict gravitons. This is all that I am saying. So it will require further research to work out the physics in greater detail. This is all I am saying. I don't know why this fire storm by you (who I suspect is the same person as all the previous wogs writing about this) is about.

As for LQG, I know the basic stuff about it. I just don't follow publications that closely though.

As for quantum gravity and extra large dimensions there are a range of people who work on this, Randall, Carroll, Witten, Green, and far more. I am a bit player in the business, but I have my fun with it.

I am beginning to think you are just an insulting troll.

LC

  • [deleted]

hello LC,

do you really think that everyone who disagrees with you is one person? i can assure you we are not one person.

you write, "String theory and LQG are theories which predict gravitons." string theory and lqg do not actually predict anything, as they are not theories. above someone asks you to provide their fundamental equations, but yet you fail to do so. instead, you engage in namecalling, conspiracy theories, and ad hominem attacks.

please, LC, to save your reputation, please just post the fundamental equations of lqg and string theory.

please do not 1) call me names.

please do not 2) call me a troll.

please do not 3) say that i am the same person as others above, although i agree wtith them.

please LC, i think that all we are doing here is asking you to post the simple equations of lqg or string theory, and then to post those equations which you think predict gravitons.

please do not take this an insulting, as that would be unfair.

i cannot speak for others, but all i am doing is asking with a genuine curiosity, "what are the equations of string theory and lqg which predict gravitons?" or, if you would simply like to start with the equations of string theory and lqg which predict anything, that would be great too.

you say you know "basic stuff" about lqg. might this include knowledge of its "basic equations?" i should hope so! for instance if one boasted of knowing the basics of relativity or quantum mechanics, and if that person was a physicist, generally they would know the schodenger equation and the lorentz transformation, or at least e=mc^2. so what are the basic lqg equations?

please, lc, do not take this honest question as an insult.

if anything, i am insulting myself as i am saying i am ignorant of lqg's fundamental equations, as well as the equations which predict gravitons.

please do share.

please do no inovke conspiracy theories nor call me nor other posters names nor engage in insulting ad hominem attacks. we're all physicists here, so please just share the physics. thanks! :)

  • [deleted]

Hi all,

I beleive the same, strings,lqg,extradimensions, reversibilities of time,mathematical decoherences,...and all these stupidities are just a joke to imply confusions because sometimes the truth is not liked by all.

These systems posses teams, jobs, ....thus you can understand why it exists strategies of these stupidities.

All that is an ocean of consfusions without real objective physicality and its intrinsic laws.

Our Universe doesn't play at dices ,please respect the uniqueness...some people shall understand better the foundamentals and our limits simply.

Regards

Steve

  • [deleted]

thanks steve,

yes it speaks volumes is that all i asked for were the equations for lqg or string theory, and i was called negative, a troll, and i was accused of being a part of a conspiracy theory.

sheeesh!

all i really want to see are the equations of lqg or string theory which predict something.

please do not call me names, nor say i am negative, nor accuse me of trolling, nor partaking in conspiracies. i am not insulting anyone, but merely asking questions. please just share the equations... thanks!!

  • [deleted]

To Kelly et al, or et unum

The constraints of ADM relativity give the Wheeler DeWitt equations NHΨ[g] = 0, N^iH_iΨ[g] = 0, which in the Ashtekar-Sen variables or connections is the basis for LQG. As for some string stuff I wrote the post

http://www.fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/651

on modular functions and string.

I am not jumping through your hoops. The similarity in language use makes me suspect you are also Patrick and . . . .

LC

  • [deleted]

LC,

i can assure you i am not patrick! yes--we both write in english. :)

please do not blame your failure to provide equations from string theory or lqg which predict gravitons, or anything else, on some strange conspiracy theory.

everyone can see that after being unable to provide any equations for lqg or string theory which predict gravitons or anything else, you descended into ad hominem attacks, conspiracy theories, namecalling, and labeling honset curiosity as being "negative."

perhaps you need more time to find the equations for lqg or sting theory which you claim predict gravitons?

how long might you need?

i am happy to wait patiently.

and please know that the wheeler-dewitt equation Wheeler DeWitt equations NHΨ[g] = 0, N^iH_iΨ[g] = 0 is completely 100% indpendent and precedent to string theory and lqg. :) you might as well claim maxwell's equations and F=ma as being equations of string theory and lqg.

perhaps you need more time to find the equations for lqg or sting theory which you claim predict gravitons?

how long might you need?

i am happy to wait patiently.

  • [deleted]

The WD equation in Ashtekar variables and Sen connection is the starting point for LQG. As for deriving gravitons, well I am not going to write huge posts here. Just take the string in the target spacetime

X = x pt sum_n a_n exp(in(x - t)) HC

expand this in a perturbation of the string length, take to second order and you can get gravity. A similar weak field expansion can be done with WD eqn or LQG, where you can expand the Sen connection out to get a pp-wave. These are 2-4 page deriviations. Do them yourself or look them up. I am not going to pound a keyboard for the next 3 hours.

As for language, I mean language use --- similar phraseology, tendecy to list with quotes, similar redudant word usage and so forth.

Cheers LC

  • [deleted]

LC: "As for deriving gravitons, well I am not going to write huge posts here."

HAHA!

Translation: "LQG and String Theory have no physical equations which predict anything, and I am just going to keep wasting your time, ducking, dodging and weaving, ejaculating random equations, and saying "you do the math i promise it is all there please take my word for it" while I get cash to torment honorable physicists and critics of my master's cash-cows and blame my inability to answer basic questions on conspiracy theories."

Ridiculous & hilarious!! And quite telling! Thanks for the good laugh! Shining a bright light on the black hole of deception and the debauchery of big-money "playstation" fantasy physics!

JH

  • [deleted]

Please, could anyone please help out our good friend JC with ST's & LQG's equations? Would be fun to see!

Sincerley,

JH

  • [deleted]

To Jefkelpatgrejerry,

Again, I am not spending hours writing a long post for you entertainment. In fact I am trying to get you to waste more time than I by writing more than I do. So far it seems to work.

Cheers LC

  • [deleted]

Hello LC,

This is hilarious.

Why would you have to write a long post when all that was requested is the simple equations of LQG and String Theory? Are you suggesting that they do not yet exist, and that you would have to drive them?

Why do you try and circumvent your basic lack of honor and knowledge by implying everyone in the world who questions the snarky, content-free, groupthink handwaving of ST and LQG are one person?

Why are you trying to play games instead of answering basic questions? Why do you write, "In fact I am trying to get you to waste more time than I by writing more than I do."

That seems to be a dishonorable pursuit, and for what purpose?

Why not just share the fundamental equations of ST and LQG?

I sincerely hope that you join us on the higher plain of discourse, rather than staying in the cave of your childish, mean-spirited games and juvenile banter.

Please now, enlighten all by sharing the equations or even just a link to the page containing them.

The world awaits your scholarship.

Best Regards,

JH

  • [deleted]

You wrote 189 words to my previous 43. It is working.

What equations? Physics is not about writing down equations. For what anyway? I am not going to write a whole treatise here. I do have other things to do. All of this over a minor defense on my part of the research presented here? WTF!?

Cheers LC

  • [deleted]

This, sir, is hilarious.

No wonder we all quote you as we can't make this stuff up!

Lawrence B. Crowell: "Physics is not about writing down equations."

Lawrence B. Crowell: "Physics is not about writing down equations. For what anyway?"

Mr. Crowell has no time to write down equations as he is too busy playing childish games, counting words, sneering, and snarking, while coming up with fabulous new definitions of physics: "Physics is not about writing down equations. For what anyway?"

Newsflash for Mr. Crowell: Physics is defined by equations!!

No equation = no physics = ST & LQG. :)

Sincerely, JH