Dear Alan,

I also think along these lines that all particles have an internal system that works nearly the same as each other. You might be interested in a visual model of how this works, and that is the direction taken in my essay. A satisfactory argument for discreteness would also include a reason for it. For example, when an electron absorbs a photon, how does that happen? There must be something internal that holds it or ejects it.

In scanning other essays I have seen photons modeled with spheres or elements which are very interesting but I think my essay is the only one so far that explores internal forces producing the shape and motion of particles. These ideas nicely refine equations for how particles interact with each other.

Kind regards,

Russell Jurgensen

Dear Emmanuel,

I'm afraid that the Big Bang hypothesis belongs to fiction, not to science. As to photons: though everybody treats the photon as a classical, bullet-like object which accidentally has no mass, it actually is a quantum object, which can be defined as an object the behavior of which cannot be understood causally. This does not mean that we cannot understand quantum mechanics rationally. To understand, we need to reconsider whether what us seems logical corresponds to what to nature itself is logical, and adjust our ideas about what makes sense accordingly. For details see my thread 838.

Regards, Anton

Dear Alan,

I don't know if you know the fantastic experiment called the Young's experiment. With this experiment, we can see the wave/particule duality of photons. Photons behave as particles but also as waves. For the Quantum mechanics, it is mathematically defined as a probability wave.

Good luck for the contest,

Emmanuel

Dear Anton,

It is very difficult to explain our universe without the assumption of the Big-Bang. Neverthess, the scenario is not complete, in particular concerning the Planck epoch and inflation. This is the reason why I think that we need a new physical assumption. I think that this assumption is the fact that photons (also called light when they are considered as waves) are the primordial elements of the physical evolution of our universe.

Good luck for the contest,

Emmanuel

    Yes, I'm familiar with it and I'm perplexed as to why it is still a paradox. Why not use an Archimedes screw as a visualisation of how something can be a particle and a wave at the same time? This helix can also act as a force of attraction when interacting with another particle/wave and if travelled around a wraparound universe then it would emerge on the other side as a force of repulsion i.e. dark energy. Problem solved imo.

    Dear Emmanuel,

    If the universe creates itself without any outside intervention, then particles have to create themselves, each other. The consequence is that fundamental particles then are as much the source as the product of their interactions. Since they obviously need to acquire some kind of backbone to prevent their properties to vary continuously as the circumstances vary, to have properties and a fixed energy, to be stable within a certain energy interval, they must be quantified. If particles are as much the source as the product of their interactions, then so is the force between them, so a force cannot be either attractive or repulsive. This means that though particles, within the conditions they are stable, may act as if they either attract or repulse; as their energy also is the product of their interactions, they have no absolute charge or mass which can give rise to infinite interaction energies at infinitesimal distances, and hence there's no need for string theory. Since the mass of particles similarly is the cause as well as the effect of their interactions, of their energy exchange, we need no Higgs particles either. A universe which finds a way to create itself, can hardly stop creating: it is this continuous creation which gives rise to the observation that masses contract and spacetime between the mass concentrations expands. So the reason why

    ---"it is very difficult to explain our universe without the assumption of the Big-Bang"---

    is that one misconception needs the other to appear to be consistent. Because the Bang tale cannot explain the origin of all energy in the universe, because the tale makes us assume that all particles passively have been created in some mysterious manner in 'the' past, they of course only can be the source of fields and interactions. The result is that we don't even have the faintest notion of what mass is, and hence dream up a Higgs particle to bridge our bottomless ignorance. The Higgs particle, in turn, corroborates the Bang tale, the fiction that since all particles have been created (pluperfect), they only are the source of their interactions, so with this fictitious particle we can close our cosy vicious circle of delusions and everybody can go back to sleep again. For details see my essay.

    Regards, Anton

    Dear Anton,

    I agree that the Big-Bang cannot really explain the origin of all energy in the universe. But I don't think that it is in the scope of Physics. As said the French scientist Antoine Lavoisier "Nothing is created, nothing is destroyed, everything is transformed": this is the conservation of energy. I think that photons are the primordial form of energy and I think that this assumption can help us to solve some physical problems.

    Best regards,

    Emmanuel

      Dear Emmanuel,

      You write

      ---"I think that photons are the primordial form of energy and I think that this assumption can help us to solve some physical problems. "---

      I am to understand that photons have an autonomous existence, that they exist even without any matter present? If they are primordial, then what is the cause of their existence, their origin, and how can you rhyme this with the law of conservation of energy according to which energy cannot be created out of nothing? I think that we cannot even begin to grasp how nature works if we don't understand how particles and energy were created, that is, if we may use the past tense. Only if we find out how a universe may engineer itself out of nothing can we hope to understand why particles have the properties they have, why the world is at it is. Though we may imagine a photon, in its particle-guise, as some kind of bullet which buzzes through a landscape from its source towards some random target, how can we rhyme this with the fact that according to the photons themselves, their emission at the source coincides in time with their absorption elsewhere? Unlike everybody assumes, photons do not interact with (objects in the) environment they are supposed to travel through: all information about that environment is already present at the source and the receiver. If so, then the environment doesn't exist to the photon nor the photon to the environment, so it makes no sense to speak about its velocity. The speed of light then isn't a velocity, but just a property of spacetime, a ratio which tells how many meters correspond to how many seconds. Though there certainly is a spacetime distance between the source and the absorbing particles so we do measure a transmission time equal to their space distance, the photon bridges this distance in no time at all. This means that we cannot ascribe a photon a classical, macroscopic kind of reality: it only exists in the change it effects (or is the cause of) at the source and receiver, and hence cannot be the cause, the origin of anything. For details see my essay.

      Regards, Anton

      Dear Anton,

      Your questions are related to the nature of time. I have written an eprint available at the following address http://cel.archives-ouvertes.fr/cel-00511837 concerning this problem. To solve the problem of the nature of the Planck epoch, you need a definition of the nature of time. Some physicists think that time is totally relative and does not really exist. I think that time is relative to the speed of light and then to photons. More exactly, I think that time comes from the possibility of motion for matter relative to the possibility of motion for light which is the speed of light. With photons only, time falls down. Nevertheless, I don't want to explain the origin of the energy in the universe because I don't think that it is a question that concerns Physics.

      Emmanuel

      • [deleted]

      Dear Emmanuel and Anton,

      Emmanuel wrote: "As said the French scientist Antoine Lavoisier "Nothing is created, nothing is destroyed, everything is transformed": this is the conservation of energy."

      This is an extremely important quote! As I've shown in my essay, the energy from the Big Bang comes from a previous cycle of the universe similar to Roger Penrose's Conformally Cyclical Cosmology and I have given a specific mechanism for how this occurs. Also, Dr. Christian Corda has posted a fine essay re. The Extended Theories of Gravity which assumes that the cosmos has an inherent intrinsic curvature. My cosmology gives an amazingly simple reason why this must be the case!

      Elsewhere, Emmanuel has stated that he believes that the contents rather than the container must be fundamental. I believe they are both fundamental, thats why gravity and the other three forces are so different. I have mainly dealt with the fundamentals of the container in my essay and would appreciate your comments if you would be so kind.

      Thanks,

      Dan

      Dear Marcel-Marie,

      Thank you for your invitation and good luck for the contest.

      Emmanuel

      8 days later
      • [deleted]

      Dear Sir,

      We had gone through your essay. You had based your deductions on some generally accepted principles. But if we analyze the foundations of these policies, we find many inconsistencies. Hence without undermining your attempts and arguments, we are bringing out these facts for a healthy debate can take place to establish the truth.

      You have referred to the expression: δE.δt ≥ ħ/2, involving time and energy. Time is not an observable property of a system in the normal sense. It is a parameter used to mark the interval between an epoch marking the beginning of measurement process and another marking its termination. Some scientists say that there is no such limitation. They can measure the energy and look at their watch. Then they know both energy and time. However, other scientists differ from this view. According to them, the equation places a limit on the accuracy with which one can specify the amount of energy transferred together with the knowledge of the time at which the transfer took place.

      We have discussed the Uncertainty relation in our essay and shown that it is not a fundamental law of Nature, but arises as a consequence of natural laws relating to observation that reveal a kind of granularity at certain levels of existence that is related to causality. We have also shown that the mathematical format of the Uncertainty relation is wrong. Heisenberg postulated this relationship which he thought as corresponding to, as he claimed, the "well-known" relation tE - Et = iħ. However, the status of time variable in his illustrations is not clear. He also formulated the inequality δw . δJ ≥ ħ, where w is the angle and J is the action based on the "well-known" relation wJ - Jw = iħ. However, these "well-known" relations are actually false if energy E and action J are to be positive operators (Jordan 1927). In that case, self-adjoint operators t and w do not exist and inequalities analogous to Δψp Δψq ≥ ħ/2 cannot be derived. Also, these inequalities do not hold for angle and angular momentum (Uffink 1990). These obstacles have led to a quite extensive literature on time-energy and angle-action uncertainty relations (Muga et al. 2002, Hilgevoord 2005).

      Heisenberg summarized his findings in a general conclusion: all concepts used in classical mechanics are also well-defined in the realm of atomic processes. But, as a pure fact of experience ("rein erfahrungsgemäß"), experiments that serve to provide such a definition for one quantity are subject to particular indeterminacies, obeying the relations δp . δq ≥ ħ,

      δt . δE ≥ ħ, and

      δw . δJ ≥ ħ

      which prohibit them from providing a simultaneous definition of two canonically conjugate quantities. It may be noted that in this formulation the emphasis has slightly shifted. He now speaks of a limit on the definition of concepts, i.e. not merely on what we can know, but what we can meaningfully say about a particle.

      In his Como lecture, published in 1928, Bohr gave his own version of a derivation of the uncertainty relations between position and momentum and between time and energy. He started from the relations: E = hν and p = h/λ, which connects the notions of energy E and momentum p from the particle picture with those of frequency ν and wavelength λ from the wave picture. He noticed that a wave packet of limited extension in space and time can only be built up by the superposition of a number of elementary waves with a large range of wave numbers and frequencies. Denoting the spatial and temporal extensions of the wave packet by Δx and Δt, and the extensions in the wave number σ := 1/λ and frequency by Δσ and Δν, it follows from Fourier analysis that in the most favorable case Δx Δσ ≈ Δt Δν ≈ 1, and, using E = hν and p = h/λ, one obtains the relations:

      Δt ΔE ≈ Δx Δp ≈ h.

      It may be noted that Δx, Δσ, etc., are not standard deviations but unspecified measures of the size of a wave packet. These equations determine, according to Bohr: "the highest possible accuracy in the definition of the energy and momentum of the individuals associated with the wave field" (Bohr 1928, p. 571). He noted, "This circumstance may be regarded as a simple symbolic expression of the complementary nature of the space-time description and the claims of causality" (ibid).

      Bohr does not refer to discontinuous changes in the relevant quantities during the measurement process. Rather, he emphasizes the possibility of defining these quantities. This view is markedly different from Heisenberg's. A draft version of the Como lecture is even more explicit on the difference between Bohr and Heisenberg: "These reciprocal uncertainty relations were given in a recent paper of Heisenberg as the expression of the statistical element which, due to the feature of discontinuity implied in the quantum postulate, characterizes any interpretation of observations by means of classical concepts. It must be remembered, however, that the uncertainty in question is not simply a consequence of a discontinuous change of energy and momentum say during an interaction between radiation and material particles employed in measuring the space-time coordinates of the individuals. According to the above considerations the question is rather that of the impossibility of defining rigorously such a change when the space-time coordination of the individuals is also considered" (Bohr, 1985 p. 93).

      Indeed, Bohr not only rejected Heisenberg's argument that these relations are due to discontinuous disturbances implied by the act of measurement, but also emphasized his view that the measurement process creates a definite result: "The unaccustomed features of the situation with which we are confronted in quantum theory necessitate the greatest caution as regard all questions of terminology. Speaking, as it is often done of disturbing a phenomenon by observation, or even of creating physical attributes to objects by measuring processes is liable to be confusing, since all such sentences imply a departure from conventions of basic language which even though it can be practical for the sake of brevity, can never be unambiguous" (Bohr, 1939, p. 24).

      Nor did Bohr approve of an epistemological formulation or one in terms of experimental inaccuracies: "...a sentence like 'we cannot know both the momentum and the position of an atomic object' raises at once questions as to the physical reality of two such attributes of the object, which can be answered only by referring to the mutual exclusive conditions for an unambiguous use of space-time concepts, on the one hand, and dynamical conservation laws on the other hand" (Bohr, 1948, p. 315; also Bohr 1949, p. 211). It would in particular not be out of place in this connection to warn against a misunderstanding likely to arise when one tries to express the content of Heisenberg's well-known indeterminacy relation by such a statement as "the position and momentum of a particle cannot simultaneously be measured with arbitrary accuracy". According to such a formulation it would appear as though we had to do with some arbitrary renunciation of the measurement of either the one or the other of two well-defined attributes of the object, which would not preclude the possibility of a future theory taking both attributes into account on the lines of the classical physics. (Bohr 1937, p. 292)

      Instead, Bohr always stressed that the uncertainty relations are first and foremost an expression of complementarity. This may seem odd since complementarity is a dichotomic relation between two types of description whereas the uncertainty relations allow for intermediate situations between two extremes. They "express" the dichotomy in the sense that if we take the energy and momentum to be perfectly well-defined, symbolically ΔE = Δp = 0, the position and the time variables are completely undefined, Δx = Δt = ∞, and vice versa. But they also allow intermediate situations in which the mentioned uncertainties are all non-zero and finite. It must here be remembered that even in the indeterminacy relation (Δq Δp ≈ h) we are dealing with an implication of the formalism which defies unambiguous expression in words suited to describe classical pictures. Thus a sentence like "we cannot know both the momentum and the position of an atomic object" raises at once questions as to the physical reality of two such attributes of the object, which can be answered only by referring to the conditions for an unambiguous use of space-time concepts, on the one hand, and dynamical conservation laws on the other hand (Bohr, 1949, p. 211).

      The above expression means, if the change in energy is zero, momentum, which involves velocity that requires energy, also becomes zero. This is an idealistic situation, which is "un-physical", as nothing in this universe is ever stationary. Some may argue that even in such a situation, the particle may move due to inertia. But that will lead to interaction with at least the field, which will lead to non-zero energy exchange. In an idealistic situation, there is no movement. Thus, the concept of space and time are not applicable and become indeterminate, as perception is possible only during transition from one state to another and time is the interval between two perceptible events.

      On a more formal level, it may be noted that Bohr's derivation does not rely on the commutation relations qp - pq = iħ and tE - Et = iħ, but on Fourier analysis. As far as the relationship between position and momentum is concerned, these two approaches are equivalent. But since most physical systems do not have a time operator, this is not so for time and energy. Indeed, in his discussion with Einstein (Bohr, 1949), Bohr considered time as a simple classical variable. This even holds for his famous discussion of the "clock-in-the-box" thought-experiment where the time, as defined by the clock in the box, is treated from the point of view of classical general relativity. Thus, in an approach based on commutation relations, the position-momentum and time-energy uncertainty relations are not on equal footing, which is contrary to Bohr's approach in terms of Fourier analysis (Hilgevoord 1996 and 1998).

      There is also another interpretation of the said equation δt.δE ≥ ħ. According to the quantum mechanical dogma, the above equation implies that the so-called empty space is not actually empty, but is full of virtual particles. These virtual particles with opposite charge are postulated to have been created in pairs drawing energy ΔE at a point over a very short period of time Δt, which are then immediately annihilated. The apparently empty space is thus said to be capable of producing particles. This state is described by a quantum state with the lowest possible energy: thus called the zero-point energy state. This implies that there is an underlying "veiled reality" layer present, determining the quantum states of the system even when apparently there are no particles. However, the layer is completely undetectable to our sense organs and measuring instruments (we have to accept the words of the scientists blindly) - all of which are made up of particles. This is said to "prove" the probabilistic nature of the wave-function! It has been suggested that at the Planck scale, i.e., 10^-35 m, quantum fluctuations become powerful enough to twist and turn the geometry of the Universe. Space and time break down to quantum foam. Like the non-existent Higgs boson that has misled the scientific community for close to half a century, this is also another red herring.

      Regarding the time cone and event horizon, we have separately shown that these are also wrong and misleading concepts. The light cone is said to be an imaginary surface associated with a point in space-time comprising the paths of all possible light rays that pass through that point. If this description is right, then there cannot be any "cone". If light moves in straight lines through one point, then it will comprise rays from "all" directions and not select directions to prove the theory right (unless someone claims that Nature does not follow its own law, but follows his laws).

      The other explanation of drawing the world lines is also wrong. The trick is first to take two spatial dimensions and one time dimension and show the evolution of the light pulse as a conic section. Then the third spatial dimension is added to show the picture of the light cone. It is surprising that till date no scientist has challenged this. Light moves in straight lines (unless it is subjected to other effects). Thus, a photon will move in time in a straight line only and a light pulse will evolve in time spherically with the starting point as the origin. In both cases there cannot be any "cone". If two space dimensions are taken, it would be a chain of concentric circles. If the third spatial dimension is added, then it will be a chain of concentric circles. If the concept of light cone and event horizon are wrong, then the entire edifice built upon such wrong foundation is also wrong. It is surprising that till now, this wrong concept has gone unchallenged.

      Regards.

      basudeba

        Dear Israël,

        I don't think the assumption that photons are the primordial elements of the universe is of type A. I have developed several consequences of this assumption that I did not see at first. The new version is in attached file below and also available online at the following address http://cel.archives-ouvertes.fr/cel-00530098

        If photons are the primordial elements then there is no Higgs boson, dilaton and graviton. Definitely, it is not a minor change in the standard model but a new way for explaining the origin of masses, inflation and the beginning of the universe. Why would we accept such an assumption? I think because it is a very simple solution and because it is a natural extension of the Relativity principle. All is relative to photons because they are primordial.

        EmmanuelAttachment #1: Photon_CEL.pdf

        Dear Basudeba,

        Thank you for your post about the foundations of quantum mechanics. However, I do not discuss about this issue in my essay. Good luck for the contest.

        Emmanuel

        • [deleted]

        Dear Sir,

        We had pointed out the discrepancies in the theories based on which you have developed your ideas in the Essay. Thus by refusing to discuss these, you are refusing to examine the foundations of your own essay. This is the escapist attitude of modern scientists, which shows that:

        1) The majority of modern scientists are superstitious. They blindly accept something and refuse to discuss its validity.

        2) They want to perpetuate the cult of incomprehensibility so that they can lead a cozy life at public expenses by fooling them with voodoo ideas couched in bombastic jargon.

        3) This reductionism is hindering the progress of science and ultimately will be detrimental to the progress of science.

        Dear Sir,

        Will you educate us about your reservations against not discussing the foundations of your own essay? After all, this is the Foundational Questions Institute Forum.

        Regards,

        basudeba.

        Dear Basudeba,

        I don't think that you have pointed out a problem concerning the foundations of Quantum mechanics. Moreover, this theory is checked with a very high degree of precision. The same is true for the General Relativity. Nevertheless, there are some problems concerning the origin of masses, the unity of Physics and more generally the beginning of the universe. I think that we need a new physical assumption rather than a modification of these theories checked with a very high degree of precision.

        Concerning the problems of the dark matter and the dark energy, I think that the solution is in the General Relativity.

        Best regards,

        Emmanuel

        5 days later
        • [deleted]

        Dear Sir,

        You have partially admitted that we are right. Now will you kindly reply to the other points raised by us in our earlier post instead of being evasive. We have raised questions about the foundations of your essay. We may be wrong, but that needs to be settled only after a healthy debate. After all its the forum of Foundational Questions Institute. By refusing to answer our points, you only confirm that your essay is not based on sound principles.

        How long scientists continue with this gimmick and fool general public to lead a cozy life at public expenses. It is high time to call the bluffs.

        Regards,

        basudeba.

        7 days later
        • [deleted]

        Dear Emmanuel,

        To interpret the speed of light as a velocity is to treat what essentially is a quantum mechanical phenomenon as something which obeys the rules of classical mechanics. We can only speak about the velocity of an object with respect to something if and when it interacts with that something as it moves. (Interacting includes the energy exchange between particles by means of which they express and preserve their energy). To be able to interact, a particle must have a position to act from. In www.quantumgravity.nl in Chapter 1.2 'Mass, a quantum mechanical definition' I have defined the rest mass of a particle as being greater as its position is less indefinite, as it remains longer within the area corresponding to that indefiniteness, as the probability to find it inside a smaller area is greater. This is why I in my essay I said that the rest energy of a particle depends on its ability to express that energy as gravity, on the definiteness of its position and vice versa. The less indefinite its position is, the greater its mass is, the stronger a source of gravity it is. So if we define the 'speed of light' as that 'velocity' at which its position is completely indefinite, then it cannot express its properties at that speed, which is why it appears to have no mass or any property at all, why it cannot be accelerated, act or be acted upon. (All interactions the photon is supposed to be involved in as travels, all Feynman diagrams of all possible interactions with virtual electrons, positrons, photons, are taken care of by the particles it is transmitted between as they themselves are the product as well as the source of all such interactions.) Only in this way photons can transmit force between particles without that force being involved in intermediary interactions with particles in the environment it is supposed to travel through. This info about the environment is already present at the emitting and absorbing particles as they continuously exchange energy and objects in between affect this exchange, information which is already is accounted for in the photon energy. So if a photon doesn't interact with, exist to the objects along its path, nor the environment to the photon, then it makes no sense to speak about its velocity: there's nothing with respect to which it moves. (This is no to say that we cannot predict where/when we can intercept, detect a photon if we know the position of the source, the direction and time of its emission).

        If particle A emits a photon which is absorbed by B, a transmission changing the state of both A and B, then A sees the state of B change at the time it emits the photon, whereas B sees the state of A change as it absorbs the photon. That is, unless B after absorbing the photon sends back a message to A to confirm the receipt of the photon, a thank-you-note saying that A can from now on start to see B in its new state. A gravitational field is an area of contracted spacetime: the stronger the field, the more space, distance is 'folded' within a smaller area as measured with a rule outside that field. Whereas to a massive particle penetrating the field, this 'condensed' distance unfolds, to a massless particle there exists no field, and hence no distance to its source. So whereas to a massive observer A and B are separated in spacetime so to him the emission doesn't coincide in time with its absorption, as to the photon there's no distance between A and B, its transmission is instantaneous. So though an observer measures a duration, that doesn't mean that the transmission isn't instantaneous, it only isn't instantaneous to him. Whereas to the observer a space distance is a time distance, the photon bridges this distance in no time at all, so to the photon its transmission doesn't take any time at all.

        If A sees B's state change at the time it emits the photon, then a finite velocity would mean that since nothing is allowed to happen which might prevent B from absorbing that photon, time would have to stand still for as long as the photon is traveling. Anyhow, we don't know whether A wants to get rid of some energy, or B incites A to produce the photon: if there's no absolute time, no clock outside the universe, then it doesn't even make sense to ask what causally precedes what, even though we see one event to happen before the other.

        ''Some physicists think that time is totally relative and does not really exist.''

        The ''does not really exist'' seems to refer to an imaginary observation from outside the universe, so I can agree with this as in my essay I argue that the universe as a whole has no physical reality either. A universe which creates itself without any outside intervention creates, keeps producing time itself, containing all time within.

        As a Self-Creating Universe can hardly stop creating itself, it keeps creating energy, so we don't need any dark energy to explain why the universe keeps expanding unhampered by gravity. It is this continuous creation which powers any change we experience as the passing of time. Since I cannot believe in a bigbang tale which implicitly states that the universe and everything inside of it has been created by some outside intervention, to me there's no (''problem of the nature of the'') Planck epoch either. It is because we believe that particles only are the source of their fields and interactions that we need a naïve and unnecessary tale like the bigbang hypothesis.

        As to the origin of the energy in the universe, I cannot think of any more important question in physics. The problem with present physics is that it implicitly assumes that the (rest) energy of particles only is the source of their interactions, as a given, and not, as I propose in my essay (topic 838), as being also the product of their interactions, which it must be if in a SCU particles have to create one another.

        Regards, Anton

        Dear Anton,

        The exchange of a photon is the principle of the electromagnetic interaction. I don't know if you know the fantastic book "QED: The Strange Theory of Light and Matter" of Richard Feynman. It is one of my favorite books. The QED is explained very easily. But time and space are defined by the General Relativity. In the theory of relativity, you have two main ideas:

        - the first one is that the speed of light is a limit for the possibility of motion for the matter (the matter being all charged or massive particles): this is the idea of the special relativity,

        - the second one is that the energy models the geometry of the spacetime: this is the idea of the General Relativity.

        The main problem is that the QED is a discrete theory which is not compatible with the General Relativity which is a continuous theory. It is very difficult to imagine a particle for gravitation (called a graviton) because the General Relativity is nonrenormalizable. But maybe there is no need for them to exist. If you see photons as waves, they are the basis of space and time because sapce and time come from the possibility of motion for the matter relative to the possibility of motion for photons which is the speed of light. So, space and time are defined relative to photons (not as particles but as waves). Finally, I think that all is defined relative the photons due to the wave/particle duality: space and time relative to light (photons as waves) and elementary particles with their masses relative to photons (as particles). Why? Because photons are the primordial element of the physical evolution of the universe. This is my idea.

        Best regards,

        Emmanuel