Dear Ed,

Your Master Equation seems to generate the correct types of fields, but I am concerned that these limited fields (G,C,E,M) in 4 dimensions do not contain enough degrees of freedom to account for all known generations of "fundamental particles" - at least an SO(10) of fermions and an SU(5) of bosons. You begin with continuous fields only, and try to insert quantized "fundamental particles", but you omitted talking about Second Quantization, and this is the most accepted method for obtaining quantized particles from continuous fields. I also didn't discuss Second Quantization in my essay, because I proposed that fields and particles are both necessary complementary inverse scales.

Tajmar's explaination of a mass increase in Niobium Cooper-pairs is interesting. Superconductivity has also been implied to be the bridge between electromagnetism and gravitation by Chiao's and Podkletnov's research teams. You mention a kappa ~ 10^31, but Chiao says that a gravitational wave should have an effect of 42 orders in magnitude. I agree with Chiao because this is of order Dirac's Large Number ~ 10^41, which is one of my scale numbers (please see Equation 15 of my book for the relationship between electromagnetic and gravitational couplings). Now we can explain the Cosmological constant of Lambda ~ 10^(-123) ~ (10^41)^(-3) by the fact that we have three spatial dimensions (you said "If scale invariant is motion invariant, time has no obvious meaning"). I think that your inverse square-roots (~10^61) and inverse fourth-roots (~10^31) of Lambda should be replaced by inverse cube-roots (~10^41 - Dirac's Large Number) or by new modeling.

By the way, this variance in Niobium Cooper-pairs is fairly small. A change in the application of Statistical Mechanics may make-up this difference. Please contrast my Prespacetime Journal volume 1 issue 9 paper with Chapter 4 of my book.

You said that the "curvature of space is limited". I agree. At some energy level, we will promote matter-anti-matter pairs out of the Dirac Sea, and this may have a lattice-like "pinching off of Spacetime" effect. I propose that the core of a static black hole may be surrounded by a Buckyball (a nearly spherical lattice that has lattice bonds to resist it from being deflated by the gravitational near-singularity) consisting of the very fabric of Spacetime. The curvature of the Buckyball initiates Spacetime curvature. There is a smooth homotopy between a pair of nested Buckyballs and a lattice-like torus (donut), and this application may be appropriate for rotating Black Holes. In fact, normal Carbon fullerenes (such as the Buckyball) may have superconductor characteristics. Is the Black Hole core a Superconductor? If so, then a rotating superconducting GEM torus would produce a powerful dynamo. That would tie your ideas, my ideas, and Tajmar's, Chiao's and Podkletnov's ideas together...

I still disagree about 4 fundamental particles, but your field approach is interesting...

Have Fun!

Dr. Cosmic Ray

    Ray,

    Thanks for taking another look at my essay, and for checking out Tajmar.

    I believe that he's backed off in his interpretation of the Cooper pairs as the source of the gravito-magnetic field. Not his measurement data, just his explanation of its source.

    I'm not sure what is meant by 'bridge between electromagnetism and gravity', and I do not believe that gravito-magnetism is related to electro-magnetism other than through the similarity of their respective field equations. It seems to be the case that our universe supports both radial forces and 'deflective' or circulation-type forces, and this applies whether it's mass or charge sourcing the fields.

    As for the energy of the cosmological constant, if the energy is that of the C-field, then we would expect it be proportional to the C-field squared, and thus lead to C~10^61. If 3 dimensions come into play I would expect this to lead to a factor of 3 (such as kT~(3/2)mv^2) rather than a cube root, but maybe I am missing your point.

    I do not attach much significance to the Niobium Cooper pairs (and I think Tajmar has backed off of that explanation). He has detected the C-field dipole for other materials as well.

    You agree that 'the curvature of space is limited'. Did you notice my response to Niklaus above (Feb. 13, 2011 @ 20:13 GMT) expanding upon that sentence.

    You conjecture that Buckminsterfullerenes may have superconducting characteristics. I would not be at all surprised. As for Black Holes cores, I don't have much of an opinion there. But rotating Black Holes should produce one hell of a C-field dipole, which I interpret to be the mechanism behind the light-years-long jets emanating from such holes.

    I'm all in favor of our ideas working together, and I'll address your disagreement about 4 fundamental particles in a later comment.

    Thanks again for looking at my essay. In the last few days we've all got a lot more essays to look at.

    Two that I especially like are Julian Barbour's 'Bit from It' and Patricio Valdes-Marin's "Structure and Force".

    Edwin Eugene Klingman

    Jason,

    I just want to acknowledge and thank you for this comment:

    "I want to applaud you for taking a stand on C-field gravity physics. Making specific predictions exposes a theory to attack; only the correct theory survives. All the rest of us get to experience the anguish of seeing our prized and beloved theory die. Lots of theorists hide their ideas in 10 dimension string theory space because they can't endure the pain."

    That was a very kind thing to say. And it is also admirable of you to state:

    "And if C-field theory survives and photon theory dies, I will cry first, and then quickly adopt C-field theory. I just want to be right going into the next battle.

    Edwin Eugene Klingman

    Jason,

    You ask what I think, so here goes.

    I am not at all convinced that 'gravity waves' exist. I listened to Joseph Weber circa 1970 lecture on his first gravitational wave detector, and it's been a long dry 40 years since, with no waves detected, despite that Russell Hulse and Joe Taylor were awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics.

    You also state: "Photon Theory says that everything in physics can be decomposed into photons and wave-functions."

    I believe that photons are physically real and that wave-functions are a mathematical description and are not physically real, so it's difficult for me to help design a system that contains (from my perspective) real and imaginary parts.

    So without intending to discourage you in any way from sticking with your Shift Photon idea, I won't be much help for positive and negative energy gravity waves traveling away from a source. If the 'negative wave' were strong enough for the ship to 'ride it', it would probably induce destructive tides in the ship.

    But you continue to display the most fertile imagination in sight.

    Edwin Eugene Klingman

    Ray,

    This reply follows the comment below.

    You are concerned that "the limited fields (G,C,E,M) in 4 dimensions do not contain enough degrees of freedom to account for all known generations of "fundamental particles" - at least an SO(10) of fermions and an SU(5) of bosons."

    There are only three known generations (and closure of CKM seems to imply that's all there ever will be) and my model produces these three generations.

    Then you say "You begin with continuous fields only, and try to insert quantized "fundamental particles", but you omitted talking about Second Quantization, and this is the most accepted method for obtaining quantized particles from continuous fields. I also didn't discuss Second Quantization in my essay, because I proposed that fields and particles are both necessary complementary inverse scales."

    Ray, I do not take Second Quantization to be physically real, but only an algebraic approach to "creating" and "annihilating" ideal 'particles' at a 'point'. Nothing real there as far as I'm concerned. I believe I mentioned (on your thread) that my Masters thesis treated the shift in energy levels of an F-center (an imaginary atom formed by an electron trapped in a negative ion vacancy of a crystal). The shifts were due to the interactions of the phonons with the 'atom', and I treated this using Second Quantization for the phonons, but I do not really believe that "quantum fields" exist that create and annihilate phonons, nor do I believe that to be true for fundamental particles.

    That's why I don't mention Second Quantization.

    Edwin Eugene Klingman

    Ray,

    More specifically, with regard to Second Quantization and phonons: As is true for any system near equilibrium, phonons can be viewed as 'oscillations' and Second Quantization is simply an algebraic technique for adding and subtracting oscillations as one wishes. The same technique turns out to be useful for particles. For an excellent treatment see Anthony Zee's text: "Quantum Field Theory in a Nutshell". He remarks (after using a 'mattress' as a model) that "even after 75 years...quantum field theory remains rooted in this harmonic paradigm."

    There's a reason for that.

    Edwin Eugene Klingman

    Dear Edwin,

    I am not a professional physicist. I am only Scientific American reader. So your essay (maybe very good one) is too complicated to understand and evaluate. Too much equations and professional jargon.

    Anyway I wish you good luck!

    Walter John

      Hi Edwin,

      An SO(10) (an abreviation for Spin(10)) represents the 45 degrees of freedom of the fermionic content of the Standard Model. This is the 15 degrees of freedom (e_L,v_L,e_R) (u_L,d_L,u_R,d_R) x 3 colors each per generation times three generations, although the three right-handed neutrinos can be inserted as a singlet group. The Standard Model also includes an SU(3)xSU(2)xU(1) bosonic content. I'm not opposed to your field approach, but I know you have serious problems with QCD (and the triality of generations may be S-dual to color), and I have proposed additional fields such as hyperflavor and WIMP-gravity.

      Second quantization is the method for treating a wave as a particle. Without second quantization, you have an electromagnetic field without photons. I still contest that wave-particle duality requires both wave and particle treatments of "light".

      You quoted "even after 75 years...quantum field theory remains rooted in this harmonic paradigm" that I call wave-particle duality - blaim it on Louis de Broglie.

      The paradox is that particles (discrete CDT-like kissing-spheres) can behave like waves (continuous string theory), and waves can behave like particles, but "scales solve the continuous vs. discrete paradox" @ topic #816. How did you like that advertisement for my essay?

      Have Fun!

      Dr. Cosmic Ray

      Hi Edwin,

      I do appreciate that you read what I write.

      It is strange that gravity waves have not been detected. Photon Theory still maintains that gravity and space-time are made out of wave-functions. The idea of constructive and deconstructive waves, and interference patterns, keeps presenting itself as a solution to describing gravity and space-time. Yet, we don't observe that. Instead, we observe that gravity fields do seem to mirror the energy within them. But the damping effect prevents (or hides) the oscillations.

      It's true that in riding a gravity wave, one does not want to become crushed by it. I'm trying to borrow from particle-anti-particle creation where both particles fly off in opposite directions. According to Photon theory, a gravity wave of this kind has to be made out of a particular kind of wave-function; one that remains stable with a space-ship inside. The spaceship and the gravity wave have to balance each others gravitational potential. Mmm...

      Dear Edwin,

      You've got me on the ropes with your probing questions. But I think I can answer the question: where are the gravity waves?

      Let's contemplate a one dimensional space-time with gravitational potential energy V(x,t) = V_0 cos (kx-wt). Actually, it's a longitudinal wave. Between any two points in space-time, there are an infinite set of these waves (or at least a lot of them). We don't see the waves because there are plenty of terms in the series to cancel out oscillations/deviations in potential energy.

      I can't discern any more detail tonight other than to say that time dilation is built into these waves. In effect, when a large quantity of mass-energy builds up somewhere on the one-dimensional space-time, potential energy is pushed negative.

      Let me think this over.

      Tom,

      I do not know if you got further than the opening quote of my essay. Further on I discuss time. It has always been the problem child. To overcome the grandfather and twins paradox and to have causality and understand the arrow of time at the foundational level(or Object reality) everything that currently exists, (which is not the same as everything that can be seen in space time), must exist -at the same singular time-. That is unitemporal time. Objects are not distributed in time at this foundational level only in space. There is no spread across time, no space-time fabric.

      However there is still passage of time becuse everything is chnaging spatial position, that is energy or change. The change in sequence of Object universal spatial position allows earlier and later to be considered, which means the change is not now just spatial but change in time. It is not the same thing as the time dimension although both are called time. The temporal distribution comes in when transmission of data such as EM has to be incorporated into the received or image reality.So space time is emergent. This relates to Newton's absolute time and space which you referred to here.

      So it is not true that a universe imagined without time dimension is static. It is actually the space-time universe without the uni-temporal foundation that is static and unchanging. To reconcile a quantum probability type model with space time, time has to be understood and put into the model correctly. Passage of time emergent from spatial change in a uni-temporal foundational reality and the time dimension is emergent from transmission delay of data from which the observed and experienced higher level image reality universe is fabricated.

      The whole of space-time itself is a reality interface product, an observer effect if you like. The whole universe is an image of reality not the currently existing Object universe. No reality interface, organic or organic no space-time. This is where decoherence of the mathematical superposition of eigenstates comes in. At detection the unique data that allows formation of the image reality is selected.Only when the image reality is formed is it real.

      Any field observed in space time has thus to be a temporally distorted version of a foundation unobserved field. It is not what is seen that is real because that is merely a representation derived from the data. Really real is the foundational reality and its topology is spatially distributed only and should not directly fit with the distorted space-time.

      Without both the foundational reality and the space-time reality the model is incomplete and that leads to the unanswered questions, mysteriousness and paradox. Only by sorting out the understanding of time, as described, can the two models be united and non realism be overcome. Real donkeys need realism or they would starve due to the mathematicians magic of incomplete information. Also see Julian Barbour's essay in this contest.

      "Men Who stare at goats" film 2009 directed by Grant Heslov."Invisibility? Yeah. That was level 3"--"Like ...actual invisibility" -"Well, yeah that was the goal. Eventually, we adapted it to just finding a way of not being seen. But when you understand the linkage between observation and reality, ...then you dance with invisibility."

      Ray,

      You say that: "The paradox is that particles (discrete CDT-like kissing-spheres) can behave like waves (continuous string theory), and waves can behave like particles."

      If you look again at the figure for the electron and the photon on page 6 in my essay, you will see that the particle is a real particle, and it is always accompanied by a C-field circulation that, in motion, is a circularly polarized wave. No paradox at all.

      Edwin Eugene Klingman

      Dear Edwin,

      At this time I don't know the mathematical description of the gravity waves that are suspected to cause gravity to exist. However, I do stick to my guns that they are quasi-existent wave-functions.

      Consider any and every physical object in the universe; anything from a space-ship to a car, a person, dog, flee, etc... It is a fact that whatever object you can think of, that objects lies within space-time, and it is subject to the gravity at that location. Now, the gravity in and around that object is some gravitational potential energy. How is that gravitational potential energy determined? That gravitational potential energy is a form of information, and information travels at the speed of light from all points in space. Gravity information comes to us from nearby mountains, the earth, the sun, other planets, nearby stars, etc. Nobody can argue that this information cannot arrive at whatever physical object you've considered.

      We would probably agree that gravity does not manifest strings, wires cables or ropes that maintain a continuous physical connection to you, I and every physical object. Yet the gravitational potential energy seems to find you and I very reliably. I would argue that every object is interconnected with gravitational wave-functions which transmit gravitational potential energy from where ever they came from.

      In the case of a shift photon generator, I am suggesting that the simple act of broadcasting gravitational potential energy back into all of the gravitational interconnections, that this will change the intensity of the gravitational potential energy along these wavefunctions.

      In another thread Steve Dufourny said:

      I have thought about your C field, I think it's interesting and relevant, but I ask me if this field is only for biology?

      I ask me also if the evolution and the Newtonian encoding, were there are steps to find it,are the main piece of this field of consciousness???

      In fact , do you see this field as a linearity as light and with different frequencies for the polarity with mass.....or do you think it's possible to insert that in the blue gene or jaguar or the last ibm???

      That implies some simple conclusions about the artificial intelligence and the number of spheres encoded....compared with a biological mass evolved also.....

      At my humble opinion, there is a big big difference dear Edwin No,???

      Now if the biology is inserted in the semi conductors, It's intriguing indeed,

      Steve

      Dear Steve,

      As I understand it, you are asking why the C-field, if interpreted as the 'bearer' of awareness and volition 'properties' (i.e., consciousness) would only apply to biology and not semiconductor technology.

      In principle, there is no reason, but in practice there are reasons. The simplest is the dependence of field interactions with mass: del cross C ~ p where momentum p is mass times velocity. In biology most of the 'moving parts' are either ions in axons, or proteins, or vesicles. These typically weigh from billions to trillions of times the electron mass, and therefore the local field is that much more 'aware' of them. Thus a C-field effect on a charged electron is essentially below any realistic noise level, whereas at the biological structure level the C-field may be at the nano-volt or higher levels of effect, small, but operative over the period of biological evolution to guide processes in a way that sheer statistics would be very unlikely to provide. And the field may also supply the 'will to survive' that otherwise makes no sense for chemicals in a world of 'dead material'. This is very important.

      In addition, these biological particles have extremely complex structures that provide much more than binary logic. And the interconnections of neural networks are in the trillions, whereas the interconnections of semiconductor computers are very regular and sparse and two dimensional. And these neurons behave not only as digital logical but also as an analog computer, vastly increasing the 'compute power'. Also the brain is tightly coupled, through the hypothalamus to the endocrine system, bringing hormones into the picture. Although I have taken two course in immunology, and studied three excellent texts, I find the immune system difficult to comprehend without something like the C-field.

      So you are right Steve, that in principle, the C-field may contribute to Artificial Intelligence (or 'real' intelligence) but in practice it does not seem to me to be feasible for the above and other reasons.

      Thanks for your lucid questions and the kind way that your started off the questions on the other thread.

      Your friend,

      Edwin Eugene Klingman

        Dear Edwin,

        I'd like to say hello and let you know how much I have appreciated reading your comments to other essays. It is always interesting to read your pleasant but insightful encouragement and analysis.

        On the first scan of your essay I didn't recognize what you meant by the C field. Now that I come back to it and read it again I am startled by your initial description of "one primordial field." You describe a tangent vector which would make a lot of sense in order for a single field to propel motion that is observed in physics. One extremely nice feature is it would provide an explanation for the laws of thermodynamics without going beyond what can be measured. Of course there would be some reason behind a C field and you suggest possibilities, but I wonder if this could represent the limit of what physics can measure for now anyway.

        I wanted to ask about the units in your equations. It seems the equations use more of a system of ideas without specific units, which would be fine. If the math does have specific units I would want to ask more specifically about them in order to follow some of the relations.

        Your approach of not taking other theories for granted is admirable and I think you could go even farther. Your analysis of entanglement seems right on. In your comment about not accepting higher dimensions than four, I'm curious if you also could question the concept of space-time by using the C field. Specifically, page 2 describing time is very interesting and I wonder if your description indicates time is something other than a dimension?

        I'd like to ask many more questions and hopefully will have a chance later.

        Kind Regards, Russell Jurgensen

          Dear Russell Jurgensen,

          Thank you for your very kind remarks, and thank you for studying my essay.

          The C-field is the 'circulational' aspect of the gravitational field in an analogous way to the magnetic field being the circulational aspect of the electric field. Maxwell conjectured that by replacing charge by mass and E-field by G-field that all of Maxwell's equations for electro-magnetic fields would have similar equations for the 'gravito-magnetic' fields. Maxwell first pointed out that fields have energy. What he did not understand, being 50 years before Einstein's E=mc^2, is that fields therefore have equivalent mass, and therefore the gravito-magnetic fields (G and C) will interact with themselves, which is what Yang and Mills described in 1954. This self-interaction leads to properties that the electro-magnetic fields (which act on charge, but are themselves uncharged) do not have.

          Today it is known that the C-field exists, but the strength of the field is at question. Everyone, for reasons of symmetry, I think, assumed that the C-field has roughly the same strength as gravity, but Tajmar has measured 31 orders of magnitude stronger. That matches my calculations based on what I considered reasonable assumptions.

          I do drop terms and constants when I am trying to emphasize a point. I mean this to simplify the presentation, but it has confused a few people. The primary equation for the C-field is equation 8 in my essay. The G-field has units L/T^2 (accel) and the C-field has units 1/T (Hz). All constants are shown, c is the speed of light with units (L/T) and kappa is a dimensionless constant that I derive elsewhere. It is where the 10^31 shows up. All terms in this equation end up with units (L/T^3) so the factor mu that scales the momentum p=mv must have the units to force this dimension. Therefore mu must have a mass, and the question is 'what mass'? If mu is based on local mass density, things get very interesting.

          I only recently became aware of Nottale's 'scale invariance = motion invariance' and so, as you point out, on page 2 there is essentially no 'motion' until the perfect radial symmetry breaks. This replaces 'motionless' radial symmetry with local vortex motions that provide the first 'clocks' or clock-function in this universe. The question of what 'time' means before this is rather fuzzy.

          I have also been re-evaluating my ideas about time due to the earlier fqxi 'time' contest and many fqxi discussions. I am currently leaning toward a 'motion'-based understanding of time, but I would hate to have to define it exactly at this moment. It's a work in progress.

          I would be very happy to try to clarify any further questions you might have.

          Thanks again, and good luck in the contest.

          Edwin Eugene Klingman

          Edwin,

          Your essay's goal is intriguing. Perhaps you can help me understand a few things from the first couple pages.

          1. You justify master eq.1 by saying that, if there is only a field, then an operator acting on the field can only be construed as the field acting on itself. It's not clear, though, how the operator comes to exist, or why eq. 1 is the only possibility. Thus, eq. 1 seems to be positing a law or axiom above and beyond the field itself rather than deriving something from the field alone.

          2. You say that math and integers are generated from the field. But it seems that math is implicitly assumed already in the meaning of the field itself, and the master equation in particular. How, for example, would one define a directional derivative of the field without math?

          Regards,

          Tom

            Dear Thomas McFarlane,

            The derivation of an 'operator equation' is based simply on the fact that physics tends to be written in terms of such equations. So, if we start with the goal of defining a 'physics' on a one and only substance, with no 'laws of nature' existing in some Platonic dimension, then the only possible operator equation must be that any 'operation on the substance' must be equivalent to 'the substance interacting with itself', since nothing else exists. But this is formal; both operation and substance are undefined at this point.

            Then, since we cannot do physics without physical facts, I pull in two facts: Maxwell's energy of field proportional to square of field, and Einstein's energy-mass equivalence. These 'suggest' that the phi*phi term on the right is energy, hence mass, and this 'suggests' that the operator del is the directional derivative, so I explore those suggestions.

            Possibly other suggestions could have lead to other areas of exploration. For example, the formal equation, before the terms are defined, may have 'suggested' to me a General Relativistic equation and I may then have explored the consequences of such. It's easier to derive results using the approach I took, but that does not necessarily preclude a 'tensor operator' interpretation.

            The issue of math is trickier. I am saying that, unlike some theories that assume a 'mathematical universe' or 'God making the integers', if we can only get 'particles' out of our field, then these particles can be used to construct 'counters' [as shown in reference 3] and, per Kroneckar, 'man can do the rest'. So, since I show how to get 'particles' out of the field, and have shown elsewhere how to build counters from these particles, and men have done the rest, I feel free to use math. It may sound circular, but what I am aiming for is to have math arise from our field, and not have to assume some Platonic world of math outside of our original primordial field.

            I hope this makes sense to you.

            Those were good questions. Thank you for studying my essay. I would be happy to attempt to answer more questions, if you have them.

            Good luck in the contest.

            Edwin Eugene Klingman