Essay Abstract

Reality is always simultaneously analog and digital. This is best understood by using an established branch of mathematics, adelic mathematics, which requires any object or phenomenon to always be understood using both real mathematics (analog) and a specific form of discrete mathematics (digital mathematics) called p-adic mathematics. The author has reviewed theories of physics that use adelic mathematics and focuses on one, topological geometrodynamics, that creates a rich theory of particle physics, cosmology, biophysics, and cognition. This paper explains why a purely mathematical argument leads to the use of adelic mathematics, discusses this in the context of epistemology and cognitive science, then shows how topological geometrodynamics applies adelic mathematic to a reconfigured model of space and time.

Author Bio

Robert Paster is an independent science researcher who recently completed an extensive study, summarized in the book New Physics and the Mind, of theories of physics that reject mainstream approaches, including string theory. This book proposes criteria for selecting the best of these theories, which is one centered on adelic mathematics. Mr. Paster is currently developing this theory's application to the mind, which will be published as a follow-up book, Digital Mind Math. Mr. Paster's academic background includes degrees in mathematics from M.I.T. and education from Harvard.

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  • [deleted]

Hello dear Robert Paster,

One of my favorites.

I like the rationalism like all rationalists of course.

The sorting seems on the road .

Program ....observation/experimentation.... observer experimentator....object...implying MODELS.

Method of reasoning and experimentation.........observation and description.

Comparative developments....determinism qualitatif/quantitatif.

Now the numbers are relevant for the regulations of some ssytems inserted.......ALL THAT IMPLIES A REGULATION OF OUR PERCEPTIONS AND ENCODINGS.

IMAGINATION AND SUBJECTIVITY.......SORTING AND EVOLUTIVE SPHERIZATION WHERE THE OBJECTIVITY AND THE MEMMORIZATION SHOW THE ROAD OF UNIVERSALITY.

The p adics numbers are relevant.congratulations for your reasoning.Like what all is a question of limits and informations.Where the selective algorythms thus become essential for a harmonious serie of encoding.The volumes of course.

PS the variable complexity is function of the number of connections.

Now if the real limits are inserted , and the volumes of spheres more a proportionality for the rotations and mass....the sorting of evolution seems on the road.All mass can be computed of course if we respect the evolution.Now it's of course digital.On the other side, the analogic is universal in its pures intrinsic codes of evolution inside gravity.

Now I find relevant the idea of Basudeba about the numbers and their foundamental evolution topologically distributed.

The works of Felix M Lev about the algorythms and galois field can interest you I think.

Regards and good luck

Steve

  • [deleted]

What is the conclusion in your essay? There is no clear statement of problem from which you progress. There is only an assertion you place before the reader.

So, now what?

Its not clear to me why you were granted any degree of recognition as a 'winner' in this essay contest, aside from your rather scant references to technical proofs for you claim.

Aside from that, I am tempted to buy your book. I am also leery of having been duped again by a marketing pitch disguised as a rational seeming essay.

    Thank you for taking the time to read my essay and write down your response.

    In terms of the conclusion in my essay, perhaps the very nature of the contest question results in a specific conclusion being a bit difficult to discern. I am claiming, in response to the contest question, that reality is both analog and digital, rather than just one or the other.

    I hope you have the opportunity to read about adelic physics, either in my research summary New Physics and the Mind, or by reading Dr. Pitkanen's work directly (topological geometrodynamics).

    My own personal interest lies in creating a Digital Mind Math that can be deployed for artifical intelligence and computer mathematics applications. This turns out to be quite a challenge, due in part to the complexity of the literature on p-adic mathematics. My current efforts involve original writing to create an accessible understanding of p-adic math at an elementary, intuitive level, which to my surprise has never been done.

    15 days later
    • [deleted]

    Hey

    Could the p-adic shift be compared to a 'quantum jump' in your mind. That is something like an excitation and needs energy? Could this p-adicity be like the descreateness and on-shell characterof reactions and matter?

    I have read Pitkänens works very much. They are the main inspirational texts for me, as I look mostly on biology. Bodily memory, emotions, magnetic body etc. are all characters of LIVING matter, directed by p-adicity?

    In what way is ordinary matter and living matter different, according to your essay? I have an essay on living matter.

    Ulla.

    I'm always glad to hear from others who are studying Dr. Pitkanen's brilliant work on TGD topological geometrodynamics. Pitkanen writes quite a bit about "common rationals," meaning the rational numbers that are the common basis of the real representation and the p-adic representation. My own current applications of TGD are specifically about cognition, the mind, consciousness, and I'm currently working with a specific framework that may be a bit different than Pitkanen's much broader framework which applies not only to cognition but also to biophysics, particle physics, and cosmology.

    Specifically, my current thinking is: Thinking is digital. Thoughts are analog.

    By this I mean that the process of thinking takes place by a p-adic analysis, starting from the previous thought, of every possible next thought. Then, guided by the negentropy maximization principle, the selected next thought is momentarily experienced in a real (analog) way.

    The amazing thing about p-adic mathematics is the extraordinarily large mathematical space in which it operates. This is because real nathematics achieves a mathematical space that is both complete and closed in such an easier way than p-adic mathematics does. In particular, Ostrowski says there are two ways (real and p-adic) to complete the rationals. Real numbers then form a closed number system quite quickly: with only a quadratic equation stated in real terms, we get the set of complex numbers, which is both complete and closed. On the other hand, it's an infinite-degree p-adic equation needed to create the closed set QbarP, which unfortunately is no longer complete. It is only the much larger set of numbers called omega that both completes and closes the p-adic numbers. It is p-adic numbers' operating within this extraordinarily large set of numbers that gives p-adic numbers the power to efficiently model the mind. (The other needed step is TGD's reconfiguration of spacetime to permit efficient p-adic modeling.)

    I terms of ordinary matter vs. living matter, my own thinking is based on what seems to me to be a pretty convergent set of ideas: (1) TGD's negentropy maximization principle, (2) Piaget's equilibration, (3) the Chilean biologists' autopoiesis, (4) the concept of self-organizing systems. All these concepts have in common that what defines life is the tendency to fight thermodynamics' relentless increase in entropy.

    • [deleted]

    But living matter is also good at creating entropy. Otherwise life would be like a diamond. Entropy is needed for the actions and reactions, perceptions etc. I think life strives to an intermediate balance between the two. Negentropy is not allowed to be too strong either.

    I like Piaget's thinking, as some base. But also the savant phenomena tells much. savants use also primes. They are focused on details. But life needs more than details,it need globality too.

    http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pbio.0060042

    (1) Your point about details (which the savant tends toward, excessively) vs. globality tracks perfectly with Piaget as well as p-adic math. P-adically, the savant environment is a high-p environment (many details for each concept level), rather than a high-n environment (many concept levels). In Piaget's terms, the savant tends to assimilate to excess, rather than accommodate his/her conceptual framewaork to the observed environmetal facts. When I present my Digital Mind Math research, this is one of my illustrations, except I use an absent-minded professor instead of a savant.

    (2) I'm hoping you can expand a bit more on your comment "Otherwise life would be like a diamond." I'm thinking that the second law of thermodynamics gives us all of the entropy we need. Life presents the negentropy.

    5 days later
    • [deleted]

    Dear Robert,

    I wanted to let you know that I have read your essay. As someone without a mathematical background I found a lot of the content to be discussing a subject of which I am largely ignorant.So bear that in mind when reading my comments. They are merely a reflection of my personal reaction and opinions.

    It is a very different approach to the essay question from many others I have read. So you get some credit for originality. I do think that considering the mathematical processing of information by the mind is a worthwhile endeavor. I suspect that it is more complex and less precise than many mathematicians and physicists with mathematical viewpoint might care to admit.... The human organism is not a mere computer and does not merely process information input faithfully but also creates novel information and discards and amplifies information. As a computer or calculator would never do. There is filtering and thresholds of information flow that determine whether a particular input ever reaches the point of being processed into conscious awareness. I also said something similar to Julian Barbour.I do not know how much this is reflected in the mathematical models you are discussing.

    I found there was insufficient information to assist the mathematically ignorant before casting them adrift in an alien world. The conclusion was similarly abrupt. Like suddenly and without warning hitting a rock in the ocean. You also appear to be considering reality to be only that which is experienced by the mind.Which does not take into account external reality. This may be due to a denial of external realism but you do not say as much.This means that your consideration of whether reality is analogue or digital is only a partial consideration of the subject.

    I appreciate that an essay such as this is not written for the likes of me. I hope that you manage to find lots of like minded readers, who will appreciate what you are saying and the style of presentation, and can discuss the body of the work and its merit as I am unable to do. Good luck, Georgina.

      Thank you, Georgina, for your careful reading of my essay and for your thoughtful comments.

      The psychological theories that I am studying suggest p-adic mathematics as our first mathematics and our earliest technique for learning about the world. For this reason, I was surprised that I have not been able to find a satisfactory simplified, intuitive explanation of p-adic mathematics. Therefore, I am attempting to create this elementary explanation, which makes it both informative and disappointing that the essay I submitted did not accomplish this for you. What it tells me is that I need to present the concepts of p-adic mathematics even more slowly and simply, so thanks again for that feedback.

      The view expressed in the essay is definitely that reality is both analog and digital, not just that this is how the mind analyzes reality. This is because all reality is adelic. All mathematics is adelic. Rational numbers are incomplete, and there are two and only two ways to complete the rational numbers (real mathematics and p-adic mathematics). No one can claim that reality's existence is only in the realm of rational numbers. This would be unsatisfactory and incomplete. Reality needs a complete realm, and there are two and only two complete realms, analog and digital, real and p-adic. This is a point about external reality, not just about how the mind understands reality.

      I'm a bit surprised by some of the skills you say a computer or calculator would never do, such as discarding, amplifying, filtering based on threshholds of information flow. These skills are all routinely performed by any of today's mechanisms of artificial intelligence, and my thesis is that p-adic mathematics (applied to TGD's reconfigured spacetime) does this better than today's real-mathematics-based A.I. does this. Did you watch Watson compete against humans in Jeopardy? For every answer, the screen displayed the results of Watson's filtering and discarding, showing a probabilistic threshhold analysis that told Watson whether to ring in or not. Watson's top three answers were displayed, with a defined threshhold against which each answer was probabilisticaly measured.

      • [deleted]

      Robert, I think it is too simplistic to say 'life is negentropic',that was the diamond-analogy. Look at it,and it is most negentropic, but it is not life. You need something else too.

      Life is reactive. It changes and accommodates. Negentropy does not that. Life learns and has memory. It is not negentropy alone.

      Life is a struggle for a maximation of negentropy, but it also needs a counterforce that creates entropy, so living matter keeps its position in the middle, as intermediate matter. Also at very small scale the second law doesn't hold. You need another kind of thermodynamic law. The Shannon entropy needs an observer, otherwise it is difficult to get 100% information with +/- ?

      Ulla.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=aj4FozCSg8g

      A video with l-adic primes and partionic number tree.

      Thank you for your continuing commentary. Here are my thoughts:

      (1) I'm still unclear about your point regarding diamonds:

      (a) You say that diamonds are most negentropic but are not life. This really isn't relevant to my hypothesis, which is that life is always negentropic, always struggling to fight the relentless thermodynamic increase in entropy. Just because you can point to something inanimate (diamond) and note that it is highly negentropic does not say anything at all about the negentropic nature of what is animate.

      (b) Of course, any point about diamonds needs to be examined quite intricately, since diamonds, being carbon-based, have a history as highly compressed life (fossils).

      (2) Hensel's Lemma is a quite appealing principle in support of the p-adic basis of cognition, because it states that any increase in information content is always in the right direction. There are no false steps in p-adic cognition: as long as a thought increases information content, it is guaranteed to direct cognitive understanding towards maximization. Of course, some thoughts are better than others (move more rapidly toward information maximization), but, understood p-adicaly, every thought that locally increases negentropy also globally (long-term big-picture) inreases negentropy. This is why it's so tempting to see life so intertwined with increase in negentropy.

      From a purely mathematical point of view, all mathematicians accept that rational numbers do not form a satisfactory number system because they (1) are not complete, and (2) are not closed.

      There are two and only two ways to complete the rational numbers: real numbers and p-adic numbers.

      This is what motivates adelic mathematics, the mathematics that insists we always look at physical phenomena, at reality, as both analog (real) and digital (p-adic). This is why purely mathematical reasoning leads to the conclusion that reality is always simultaneously analog and digital. This is a point about reality (not a point only about cognition or the mind).

      Once you close both sets of numbers, you see how appealing it is for the mind to be p-adic-based. Closing the real numbers (as complex numbers) is very straightforward. But closing p-adic numbers (as omega) creates a great numerical space in which each p-adic number in omega represents an enormous amount of information. This is why the mind has adapted to use p-adic mathematics as the mathematics of cognition, best understood by applying p-adic mathematics to topological geometrodynamics' reconfiguration of spacetime.

      But the underlying reality is adelic, that is, always simultaneously analog and digital.

      8 days later
      • [deleted]

      Dear Sir,

      We do not understand why mathematics should be made incomprehensible in stead of being scientific and rational.

      Numbers are a property of all substances by which we distinguish between similars. Distinguishing between similars is a matter of perception at "here-now". When there is the perception of an object without similars, it is one. Depending upon the repetition of the experience of such perception, we assign a different number to each set of such perceptions, which we call the number sequence. (We are not elaborating the exact mechanism but leaving it for a different occasion). We can differentiate between similars only if the object has a fixed structure. Thus, we do not assign numbers to fluids, though we assign numbers to the comparison of the volume with a fixed or unit volume.

      Number is not directly associated with the object, but is associated with whether there are similars or not. Thus, particles, that are a composite of sub-particles, exhibit these numbers differently, because similarities in the two cases are different. The number associated with a particle can repeat itself in the case of a sub-particle also depending upon whether there are similars or not. The rational numbers are only distinctions between perceptions of two sets of numbers. For example, if a particle consists of x number of similar sub-particles and if we take away y number of such sub-particles by differentiating them from other sub-particles, both operations are fully perceptible. Thus, we call the number a rational number. But where such distinction is blurred, we call it an irrational number.

      Since all perceptions are quantized, the increase or decrease in number sequence take the shape of 1,2,3,4,5,....n and n,....5,4,3,2,1 respectively. When the increase or decrease is linear, we call the operations as addition or subtraction. When it is non-linear, we call the operations as multiplication and division. By non-linear we mean only partially similar. When an object does not exist at "here-now", we call the number associated with it as zero. This only implies the absence of the object or perception at "here-now" but not its perception from our time invariant memory. Since the object is not perceived at "here-now", no number can be associated with it. Hence all linear operations involving zero leaves the number associated with the object unchanged (the use of zero as a decimal function has a different explanation. We are leaving it for a different occasion).

      In the case of multiplication, since it represents an operation involving another object and since one part of the combined operation does not exist at "here-now", the result of the entire operation cannot be perceived. Thus, the result of multiplication by zero is zero. In the case of non-linear reduction (division) by zero, the non-linear part that is not perceived at "here-now" is not perceived. Since it represents an operation involving another object at here-now and since the operative part does not exist at "here-now", the perception of the entire operation remains unchanged. Thus, the result of division by zero leaves the number associated with the object unchanged. However, in modern mathematics, it is wrongly associated with infinity.

      Infinity is like one - there is the perception of an object without similars. But unlike one, the dimensions of the object are not fully perceived (we have discussed it elaborately in our essay). There cannot be an infinite set of numbers - it is only a very big number. Since perception of numbers is related to "here-now", and since perception of objects with infinite dimension are not possible at "here-now", all operations involving infinity is void.

      The perception of: "numbers such as the square root of 2 which cannot be written as the ratio of integers", stand in a different footing. Squaring is a non-linear operation. Square root is a non-linear operation involving a field in two Dimensions, which has a second order number. You cannot take the square root of 2 bikes. But you can take the square root of a field measuring 2 square meters. While the dimensions of the two non-linear components of "square root of 2" are perceptible (such as 2m x 1m), their individual components after a specific operation involving non-linear reduction, may not be perceptible. However, since the field, both prior to and after the operation, exist at here-now, it has a number associated with it. Thus, we restrict our description of this number to the nearest perceptible fraction (components).

      All operations are conducted by an agent who has the ability to indulge in such operation. In other words, it symbolizes a kind of "ownership" over the object of operation. This ownership is indicated by the sign preceding the number explicitly or implicitly. When such "ownership" does not exist, yet the object exists, the numbers associated with such objects are called negative numbers. This absence of ownership is indicated by the - sign preceding the number explicitly. When we talk about "integers (..., -3, -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, 3, ..., negative and positive, including zero)", we indicate this change of "ownership" pattern. Since it indicates a sequence, it is time variant. Operations involving numbers are carried out at "here-now". But no such operation is possible with the so-called integers. This distinguishes numbers from the so-called integers. The concept of "aleph-zero counting numbers and aleph-zero integers" is wholly erroneous.

      Since rational numbers are only distinctions between perceptions of two sets of numbers, to say that: "The set of rational numbers is incomplete" is not a proper description of facts. In fact, it can be highly misleading. So is Ostrowski's theorem. There is no scientific basis for accepting his views. We need theories to explain reality by showing the correspondence between theoretical description and actual observation in a logically consistent manner. When the existing theories are sufficient to explain reality in a logically consistent manner, bringing in additional factors has only the effect of shifting away from reality. We need not assume that what we perceive is wrong and what we cannot perceive is right. This concept, couched in the language of incomprehensibility has been used by scientists to fool the gullible public for hundreds of years to lead a cozy life at public expenses. We can explain everything using ordinary mathematics derived from fundamental principles. A mature person cannot be a child, because the only difference in perception between them is that while the mature person has more "experience" (hence a bigger memory bank), the child lacks it or has it in a small measure. To invoke the inner child means to assume that one's memory is all wrong, which means one has gone mad.

      The description of Piaget's method of assimilation and accommodation itself by Mr. Paster is wrong. Hence it is no wonder that the conclusions arrived at are misleading. For example: Mr. Paster has written: "Assimilation means that we take an observation or experience and add it to our existing conceptual structure, enhancing the structure that was already in place, but not transforming that structure into a new conceptual structure". This simply means that we "learn" through experience by replacing our earlier ideas with new ideas - making structural adjustments. This "learning" is nothing but our "new concept", because, with the same input different persons will add differently to their existing concepts making it a "new concept" every time. There is no other meaning for "add it to our existing conceptual structure".

      He further writes: "Accommodation, on the other hand, means that the observation or experience has been so novel or discordant that we cannot absorb it into our existing conceptual structure. Instead, we must modify our conceptual structure, accommodating our world view to incorporate the latest novel, discordant event." This simply means the same thing as assimilation, except that the magnitude of the latest structural adjustment to our memory has been comparatively much bigger than usual. Admittedly, "Piaget considered himself an epistemologist first, drawing conclusions about the nature of knowledge from his observations of human cognitive development." The above description fits his views.

      Mr. Paster has used P-adic mathematics to model Piaget's processes of assimilation and accommodation. He writes: "Assimilation means one of the digits of the prior p-adic number has gotten larger, but we still have the same number of digits". This is something beyond us. Firstly, we do not see the necessity of any other ad hoc mathematics beyond simple natural mathematics. Secondly, digit is nothing but the name assigned for a certain number of perception of similar objects. For example, if we had perception of 1, then another 1 similar objects, we assign this type of perception a name, which may be two. For every such repetition, we assign different names and call these digits. Since number is only one of the perceived properties of objects and not the object proper and since larger number implies addition of similar objects, we do not see how "the prior p-adic number" can get larger, but "still have the same number of digits".

      He further writes: "Accommodation in its simplest form means that we have one more digit, one more level of hierarchy. Accomodation can also take other forms: A segment of the prior p-adic number can be preserved but encapsulated within a different enclosure. Or levels of enclosure can collapse into a larger single enclosure". This is an entirely wrong description of facts. If "we have one more digit", we do not get "one more level of hierarchy." Hierarchy implies "difference in class". But if "we have one more digit", we have one more object of the "same class". If a "segment of the prior p-adic number can be preserved but encapsulated within a different enclosure," then the "addition of one more digit" is not possible, unless it interacts with the enclosure. If it interacts, then the concept of enclosure is meaningless. The concept of "levels of enclosure can collapse into a larger single enclosure" means nothing but making structural adjustments, which is again nothing but assimilation as explained earlier.

      We agree with Piaget's concept of equilibration as the driving force, but we interpret it differently and much more universally. We leave it for the time being. Regarding minimum length, we had discussed elaborately in our essay. Regarding "most mainstream physicists reject out of hand a role for physics in explaining the mind" all we can say is "sour grapes". Since they have not understood the concept, they say so. As we have described repeatedly, we explain mental functions mechanically. We accept thought as the inertia of mind. Regarding dimension, we have written in various threads in this competition to show the nature of dimension, what the ten spatial dimensions are, and why time cannot be a dimension.

      Finally, most of the "scientific" terms are nothing but mere words to show off one's "knowledge" through the cult of incomprehensibility. This is unfortunate, but true.

      Regards,

      basudeba

        I think this is mainly a question of the formation of gates and borders that creates forms that creates structures.

        I am pleased to see labeled as "sour grapes" the frequent rejection by academic physicists of any role for the mind in physics. Unfortunately, I find that physics and the mind is seen by many physicists as a rogue inquiry. I have, however, uncovered a couple hundred physicists' theories of the mind and summarized them in my book New Physics and the Mind.

        My primary interest is "digital mind math," a mathematical model of how we think, using a specific form of discrete mathematics, not binary, but p-adic. Ulla Marianne Mattfolk's comment regarding "the formation of gates and borders that create structures" is a nice description of how p-adic mathematics works. It is ultrametric (non-Archimedean) mathematics, and many statements about p-adic mathematics would be absurd if they were made about real mathematics. For example, the meaning of the digits in a p-adic number is quite different than the meaning of the digits in a real number. Also, the size of a p-adic number does not depend on what the specific digits are, but instead is determined by the count of the number of digits to the right of the decimal point for a particular value of p.

        And don't forget the purely mathematical argument: there are two and only two ways to complete the rational numbers, real and p-adic. This gives great intuitive weight to the concept that we should be looking to p-adic mathematics as a critical analytic technique.

        A good starting point is to consider how much artificial intelligence has achievbed using binary mathematics. Arbitrary assignments of binary labels to objects and relationships allows computers to interact with us in very complex ways. The theory of "digital mind math" is that, if we advance the computer mathematics from binary to p-adic, we will achieve the full level of human thinking.