Scales Solve the Continuous vs. Discrete Paradox by Ray B Munroe

Dear Wilhelmus,

Thank You for your comments!

I imagine that the Multiverse is an infinite (or at least near infinite) Cantor set (or Mandelbrot set or something related to self-similar fractal scales). It would be very interesting if the top scale (Multiverse) and the bottom scale (sub-quantum or Dirac Sea) are related. In my assumptions, the Multiverse is responsible for gravity, and the Dirac Sea is responsible for the origin of mass. Which came first - the chicken or the egg? the gravity or the mass? the Multiverse or the Dirac Sea? They are intimately realted... As such, we are hybrid creatures who have simultaneously risen from the base scale(s), and fallen from the superior scale(s).

I apologise. All of my papers have a certain amount of math. I held back (a little bit) on the amount of math in this paper, but felt that a certain amount of equations and numbers were necessary to explain my theoretical inspiration and mathematical ideas. I also enjoy the papers based on language and logic, such as Julian Barbour's and Tom Ray's, that don't include as much math.

I will try to get to your paper (and the prior request by Jim Hoover) as soon as possible. Some of these essays deserve a couple of read-throughs and contemplation, so I understand your one essay a day limit, but the deadline is quickly approaching!

Good Luck & Have Fun!

Dr. Cosmic Ray

Ray,

I agree about disagreeing. I think this last round started with the Nature article that says SUSY doesn't appear to be there, which was 'new'. You keep trying to fit my theory into your framework, and it simply does not fit. I don't think in terms of symmetry, as I've explained elsewhere. The H4xH4* was your suggestion, and I'm just going along with it. In my view symmetry was the best tool for interpreting scattering data, and is useful in molecular and condensed matter physics, but is emergent, not causal.

Whatever the genesis of SUSY, it doesn't appear to be there or to solve the problem it was believed to solve. That's just an apparent fact. Denial won't make it go away. And I am not a member of the religion of strings, as I've explained several times how these arose as a misinterpretation of C-field-based proton-proton scattering data.

I've answered the questions in your third paragraph elsewhere on these threads several times and it's in my 'Chromodynamics War' book that you have.

I have been thinking about your 'scales', and I'd like to 'walk back' one of my comments. I said above that "I don't believe we have multiple scales,..." but I'm not sure that is true. I don't know enough about your scales (yes, I've read your paper on them) but I have recently seen an aspect of the C-field that may best be described as 'scales'. I'm putting more thought into this, because I don't know how to represent it mathematically, or describe it well verbally, although I can depict it graphically (it's topological in nature). So maybe you're right on the existence of two scales, (although I draw the line at the Multi-verse).

So when you say: "If my multiple scales exist, then SUSY may not be Weak-scale, and may be harder to pin down. The people who oppose SUSY either think that the SM is perfect without it (bad assumption) or have other odd-ball ideas that may or may not work out, and certainly aren't any more beautiful than SUSY. Occam's Razor is a balance between Simplicity (I often equate Simplicity and Beauty) and Necessity (a theory needs to explain as many details as possible - does your theory explain Weak-scale stability or is that another epicycle?)."

I guess you have to put me in the 'other odd-ball ideas' category, since I don't fit in the SM school or the SUSY school. I believe my theory is by far the simplest theory (and the most beautiful) that produces all known particles and no other particles, so that's Occam's razor enough for me. I believe my model does explain 'Weak-scale stability', but that's based on a loose understanding of what exactly is meant by that term.

Looks like we're moving into the final phase. It's been stimulating, and I've enjoyed our back-and-forth.

Edwin Eugene Klingman

Dear Jim,

You and I seem to agree on many controversial points.

I agree with a Multiverse that is so large (possibly infinite?) that we can't observe it all because of our speed of light scale limit, and a finite age for our Observable Universe "locality".

I agree with Supersymmetry - Fermions and Bosons are fundamentally different enough that we need SUSY to combine these concepts into a single TOE (if such exists!).

I like to play with models. If one seems to work, then I keep building on it. If one obviously fails, then I put it aside (for another application later?).

You mentioned that String theory is analog, and this certainly agrees with classical wave theory (a traveling wave on a string), but I think that these strings may also have discrete modes of vibration (like the frequencies of a piano string) that may behave quantum-like (I think that Philip Gibbs and Lawrence Crowell have been having such a discussion on Lawrence's blog site). This ties into a wierd quantum-classical behavior of strings and Philip Gibbs Qubits of Strings. In my models, the end of the string may behave like a site in a discrete lattice.

The BB and BH's seem to be two different sides (bringing forth new life vs. melting down death and decay) of the same coin (singularity). I don't think that a singularity can exist in a finite Universe, therefore the BB must be part of the Multiverse, and BH's must not be "infinite vacuum cleaners". In my blog thread, I have proposed ideas and geometries that may prevent the BH from becoming a true singularity.

You suggested that large BH's may swallow smaller BH's until - ultimately - our observable Universe consists of a single Super BH. I don't know... It is true that gravitational fields effectively stretch out towards an infinite range (falling off as inverse-distance-squared), but it would be difficult (if not impossible once spacetime has collapsed to a point?) for a large BH to move a smaller BH.

Your essay was very readable.

Good Luck and Have Fun!

Dr. Cosmic Ray

Ray,

Thanks for taking the time to read mine.

Jim

Dear Wilhelmus,

I liked your comparison of the quintessence to hyperspace. I have been talking about 5-fold (pentality) symmetries for a couple of years. I think it is the origin of mass, and you correctly emphasize that we only know about the 5% baryonic matter - not dark mass, dark energy, etc.

Our ideas have more similarities than differences, perhaps because the Sun was travelling through the same patterns of stars for our births (your birthday is July 26, mine is July 25, although I'm younger...).

I agree that the Black Hole "singularity" is not a singularity. Your point was that an extra dimension of size 10^-31 cm is sufficient to prevent a true infinity. I like your ideas on Consciousness, although this borders on Philosophy (that's OK - I like Philosophy).

I disagree on the Big Bang and Inflation. I think that the Big Bang was a singularity that must exist in the seemingly infinite Multiverse. In this sense, the Multiverse may seem to have always existed, but a broken TOE symmetry could have produced the phase transition necessary for an event such as Inflation to produce many self-similar scales. Our Universe is a small fractal fragment of dust within an infinite Cantor set.

You made a small error - I think on page 7. You quoted the temperature of the Cosmic Background Radiation with a comma rather a decimal point - To me that implies a number a thousand times larger.

Good Luck in the essay contest & Have Fun!

Dr. Cosmic Ray

Dear Ray,

In a footnote in your essay you say

"If we were able to fully explore the Dirac Sea scale, then we would better understand the origin of mass."

My essay (topic 838) offers some ideas as to the origin of mass (plus some new problems).

Regards, Anton

Hi Ray,

Thanks for reading my essay and your kind answers.

You write :

"Our Universe is a small fractal fragment of dust within an infinite Cantor set"

This is pure poetry ray, you can make a song of it, it indicates very much our position of human beings, its is evidently of the same charge as my vision, only you accept the singularity, that I need not because of my infinity which is not part of our 4-d causal deterministic universe, but as a symbol the singularity is useable, the further we go away from a world, the smaller it becomes from our local point of view, till it disappears and then we look for technical attributs to refind it , can we do so in infinity ?

sorry for the comma that had to be decimal point, in the long row of digital units it will cause a blurr in our Universe, in the quintessence it just another "singularity" , but be attentive any point in the quintessence can become tthe cause of a whole new universe, this one with a cosmic background radiation that is number thousand greater.

We are having fun lets continue all together isn't it ?

Wilhelmus

PS Ray,

I controlled and chequed ,the temperature of the the Cosmic Background Radiation (not actually with Planck) and found the reason why you see a comma as a decimal point an I see it as a comma, it is the difference between USA and Europe, for me after the comma can be an infinity (1,618034....... page 5 of your essay, you write it as 1.618034) pff that is a revelation.

enjoy

Wilhelmus

Dear Ray,

I really appreciate your approach of viewing universe as a crystal. As you know I have the same approach with my hyperdiamond model, except that my crystal lattice has the nature of a trivalent graph, not leaving in any space background of any dimension. Topologically encoded bits define both hyperdiamond geometry, bosonic/fermionic content and the tetrad gravitational field. All spacetime coordinates are on a D4 lattice, sublattice of 4D integer lattice where all coordinates have same parity. At first view there is no golden ratio here. But if we go to semiregular polytopes derived from the 24-cell, we get the snub 24-cell (or 144-cell) and Golden ratio appears in the coordinates !

So our theories may have some common truth behind both of them...

All the best

Ray

Dear Wilhelmus,

I wondered if it was a conversion from European to American conventions.

Have Fun!

Ray

To talk your language for just a sec (ever conscientious objectors can be medics!)you may be interested in my post to Phil below. I've also noticed I haven't rated yours yet. I can see 'where you are', but think you have far more vision and potential than many. Have you scored mine yet? I understand why I never really did get your frank view as I struggled with yours as well. But I really do think the concept needs airing in SA. So try mine in these terms;

To Phil; "Thanks for your note. Glad you read mine. I didn't want to mix the conceptual with this at this stage, but, considering yours, is it possible you could look at mine in terms of a Q-net (as a fibre optic) and quantum registers QUBITS 'lumped' together - "wanderland", or right down to individiual bits ('balls S^3')

I believe SR and LT link to this picture via QC=SR, "2+2=1+3" (Hermitean picture or Klein correspondence).

If you're impressed with that don't credit me, you should read Lucian Ionescue's essay, that's been a bit overlooked and should be way up the list. I only saw it yesterday!

Let me know if that computes. You should spot that it is actually paradigm shifting! Great to see you on a late charge.

Best wishes

Peter

Hi Peter,

I commented more on your essay at your blog site. I think that your idea is a wandering of photons within S^3 that are statistically guided by the Principle of Least Action. My ideas incorporate qubits of strings perfectly well.

Have Fun!

Dr. Cosmic Ray

Ray,

I posted a followup to your post in my forum that you might find interestiing.

Tom

Thanks, Tom!

I posted a response in your forum.

Ray,

Good news on the C-field front!

The 12 Mar 2011 issue of 'Science News' has two articles on the C-field:

The first (p.14) states that the C-field generated by a spinning Black Hole imparts (detectable) angular momentum to light passing through the field, circularly polarizing the light. Martin Bojowald suggests upgrading most telescopes to search for more of this.

The second article (p.20) on quantum vortices has Kerson Huang of MIT speculating that the vortices in the (C-field) 'superfluid' after the big bang may be responsible for the gaps of empty space between galaxies.

From 'Fly-by' mysteries to spinning Black Holes to the Big Bang, the C-field is being recognized as having physical reality responsible for observable effects.

Edwin Eugene Klingman

Hi Ed,

I'm glad that these ideas may reinforce your GEM-like concepts. Please don't misunderstand me - I think that "Gene-man" theory may explain a triality of generations and - when properly scaled (via S-Duality?) - may also explain a triality of color, but I think there is more to a TOE than the E, B, G and C fields and four particles. "Gene-man" theory may still be a good place to start...

I finally put together a paper model of my lattice-like torus with Buckyball symmetries, and this could possibly explain spinning Black Hole phenomena. Regarding the "fly-by" mysteries, Rafael Castel had a simple suggestion that only involves General Relativity.

Short of an unexpected ambush, it looks like our essays should make the top 35.

Good Luck & Have Fun!

Dr. Cosmic Ray

Ray,

I've enjoyed all of our exchanges, and, as I've said, you are a true gentleman and a good man. You may have missed a statement in one of my last comments to the effect that I retract my rejection of multiple scales, as I have identified another aspect of my theory that is probably best conceptualized in terms of scale. I look forward in the future to discussing this with you.

Congratulations on your placement. Now we'll see what the judges make of us.

Your friend,

Edwin Eugene Klingman

Hi Ed,

You said "You may have missed a statement in one of my last comments to the effect that I retract my rejection of multiple scales, as I have identified another aspect of my theory that is probably best conceptualized in terms of scales".

I agree, which is why I said "I think that "Gene-man" theory may explain a triality of generations and - when properly scaled (via S-Duality?) - may also explain a triality of color"

I'm glad to see that you received a lot more exposure in this contest than you did in the last one.

Have Fun!

Dr. Cosmic Ray

Congratulations Ray!

I am pleased that your 'resolution of the continuous/discrete dilemma through scales' made it into 'manifestation' for the panel to 'measure'. Funny! How even in 'real life' (compared to the life of a theoretical physicist) we have "continuous accumulation of energy before discrete (say about 35!) manifestation". We are closer than we think! And that's why the conversation must continue!

Ready for the next round? I do mean for you to measure the true meaning of what I mean. Let's start with Planck's Law is a mathematical identity! Your favorite misunderstanding!

Wish you well with the judgment!

Constantinos