Black Holes: Paradox Regained

Hi Lawrence, me also I d like hear your point of vue, I am sad that one of 2 mavericks is not with us.

Regards

The informations are conserved , it is sure. The laws of thermodynamics and mecanics are universal at all scales. So it is not a paradox when we consider the complementarity of the BH considering an evolutive point of vue. If they are evaporated, or destroyed, so they became an other proportional reality.And so the informations also are conserved considering the rotations and thje volumes of entangled spheres. The cosmological spheres are in the same relativistic logic. Humbly the rotating spheres answer to all proportions if and only if the continuity is respected for the evolution of states. If we consider this evolution of mass, so these spheres.The ultim code is far. But in theory, if we change the ultim code, so we have a paradox, but we are not Gods at my humble opinion. It is bizare. I beleive that never we could change this ultim code.

I am insiting about the volumes of the serie of uniqueness!These volumes , these rotations, these velocities, these mass, they turn ....so they are...they build ...

Cristi,

The extensions you are making are analytic. In this must then be some aspect of complex variable. What I can't help but think is there is some underlying quantum mechanical aspect to this. The quantization of singularities is necessary in order to determine if there is some dualism between the QFT configuration of the stretched horizon in holography and the field state of the singularity. So I have been playing around with similar ideas in order to generalize the Hawking radiation theory.

I am again posting late and do not have quite the energy to type out a lot of stuff. I will maybe try to write something here that is longer this weekend. The analytic smoothing of physical singularity in a black hole provides a way in which post selected states due to Hawking radiation can demolish states on the stretched horizon which correspond to the pre-selected states. If there is a duality then this should mean the quantum information which enters the BH is encrypted in another form as the post selected states. This follows the weak measurement approach to quantum mechanics by Ahrahonov and Vaidman.

Steve,

It is too bad about Ray Munroe. He was to say the least adventurist about all of this, where I am a bit more cautious. Some of his work on the 5-fold symmetries I did with him, and we published a paper together. He was a few years older than me, but not by too much. I had a friend a few years ago die of a heart attack as well. I had a full check up last year and everything checked out alright. I hope it stays that way.

Cheers LC

Hi Lawrence,

Interesting observations.

Indeed, if the fields can evolve through the singularity, the unitarity is restored. Interesting the explanation with pre-selected and post-selected states.

I discussed a few months ago with a physicist the possibility of counting the states of the singularities to account for the entropy of the black hole, but I did not advance yet in this direction. My hope is that this will follow from some global conditions, because locally they seem not to be present. Speaking of the duality you mention between singularities and horizon, I see it somehow analogous to the duality between a field and its source, which appears to be a singularity of the field. My view on the stretched horizon is somehow different than Susskind's, in that I don't think it is in conformity with the principle of equivalence to have a special stretched horizon, on which special things happen. But the holographic principle I think doesn't need a fixed stretched horizon. I think there is more freedom, like as we choose a closed surface in Gauss's law for the electric field (to continue the analogy with the duality field-singularity).

For the moment, I concentrate in pushing the classical GR to understand better what happens at singularities. My guess is that here there are some hints regarding quantum gravity.

Best regards,

Cristi Stoica

Hi Lawrence, Christi,

Take care Lawrence.

About the singularities and the unitarity, it is intresting to see how the pure mecanical and thermodynamical laws are conserved.

Regards

You do have to read Susskind's book on the holographic principle. He does say at the end there is a bit of a problem with resolving the issue of the singularity and what happens there. I think there is a duality between the data on a stretched horizon and the singularity. I think this might have to do with the conformal symmetry flow of how symmetries on certain scales are buried on other scales. This is an aspect os Zamalodichov's renormaliaztion group flow.

LC

Hi Lawrence,

I did read it, and I think in the closing comments he doesn't mention the issue of singularities, but the issue that the BH entropy is each time calculated by a trick, and we don't have the understanding of the connection between entropy and area. This is in conformity with the point I expressed earlier. Susskind defines the stretched horizon as "a fictitious membrane at Planckian distance from the horizon", which does something strange to information: records and re-radiates it, and in the same time allows it to pass. I have to disagree with this, because it leads to contradictions (even if they are "unobservable contradictions"), and because violates the equivalence principle.

But, like I said, I agree with you that there is a connection between singularities and entropy. I think that this connection is direct, rather than via a "stretched horizon". Unless instead of the stretched horizon we consider an equivalence class, something like a homology class. I hope I will return in a few months with a more precise description of what I said.

Best regards,

Cristi Stoica

The last paragraph Susskind talks about the infalling observer who crosses the horizon as a "big hole." So he is talking about the interior in general, but of course that includes the singularity.

Your insight on a homology I think is right on. I attach a paper I got published a couple of months ago. This involves the counting of states on a black hole horizon. I have been working on how these states are dual to interior states according to elliptic curve cohomology.

Cheers LCAttachment #1: Crowell_EJTP_counting_states_in_ST.pdf

Lawrence, thanks for the attachment. Now I think it is more clear to me what you meant.

Cristi

The literature in black holes is open to many objections.

In section 8 of Non-redundant and natural variables definition of heat valid for open systems bogus claims done in black hole 'thermodynamics' are corrected. It is not true that black holes violate the second law of thermodynamics. The so-named generalized second law is unneeded, apart from confounding the production term (proportional to volume) with a flow term (proportional to area)!

It is not true that "black holes also destroy information as they munch on matter, violating the laws of quantum mechanics". In the first place, as shown recently in General relativity as geometrical approximation to a field theory of gravity the metric formulation associated to general relativity is valid only when one avoids higher order corrections due to gravitons. This is somewhat similar to geometrical optics arising as an approximation to physical optics.

The spacetime singularities associated to general relativity are only apparent and results from applying general relativity beyond its field of validity. General relativity is obtained when (i) one ignores the contribution of gravitons to the source of the gravitational field and approximates it by Tab (the right-hand-side of Einstein equations) and (ii) one approximates the field-theoretic effective metric by the general-relativistic metric.

In the second place, it can be shown that the correct field theory of gravity can be quantized as other ordinary field theory.

But Giddings has identified a key, and debatable, assumption in those locality arguments: "All of that assumes that there is some pre-existing spacetime that defines what it means for things to travel faster than the speed of light or not."

While people are being open minded about reexamining fundamental assumptions, I'd like to suggest that a reexamination of key assumptions about the fundamental nature of time is in order, and in fact long overdue. Some hopefully cogent thoughts on the topic will be found in a recent essay titled 'Toward a Helpful Paradigm for the Nature of Time,' which will be found here.

www.CIGTheory.com

a new interpretation

singularities explained: pure Matter (black hole)

pure Space (100% Dark Chocolate Energy)

One Equation: MTS

Duality resolved. more... see www.CIGTheory.com

Experimentally verifiable.

nothing more to offer - out of my thinking stage / please take it from here

website may have to come down soon .... tired.... confused....

THX - doug

Christi,

I forgot this thread.

Well , about the BH ? I must insist on the fact that it is a sphere with a mass, a volume, rotations, rules, propoerties....if they are black, they are reasons considering the relativity and the light and its 3D perception. Like a person who has studied a lot about the sigularities and this entropy.I suppose that you insert limits in your domains. The duality is rational. Not need of paradoxal extrapolation loosing their foundamentals.

These BH have emissions and absorptions. They sort and synchronize like all spheres.If you say that nothing can escape, you are false.Perhaps the Hawking Radiations can help when we insert relativistic domains. The aim is not to add the ideas but to understand the generality Christi.

If people wants to understand what is the entropy and its distribution by the singularities and its codes. So the roads, deterministic must be inserted !!!

The rest is vain after all.

spherically yours and in 3D !!!

Christi,Lawrence, I become completely crazzy you know.My paranoia and my headackes are numerous. I have meds but I become crazzy.

ps I ask me if the spheres of a galaxy at the cosmological scale are correlated with the quantum spheres of this cosmological system.The singularities and the entropy are correlated also with the planck walls.

Probably that each galaxy possesses each own quantum entanglement. It is relevant considering the volumes and the rotations, if the number of the serie of uniquity is considered with the biggest rationalism. The proprotions can be analyzed.

The volumes and mainly the main central spheres, are at the wall and possesses the entropy by combinations mass/light. If each galaxy possesses its own spherical volumes. So the quantum entanglement in its pure finite serie is correlated inside the specific galaxy and its own entanglement also.

The claculation of the central volumes and the central main universal volume can be made with relevance. The princimple of equivalence.....

Regards

The time is a constant of evolution, a duration implied by the rotating spheres. The time is the time after all. Is it important to see if this time is reversible? No of course because the time is purely irreversible in its pure generality.The time space evolution is linked but we cannot return in the past ! Perhaps that we can decrease the duration, so our internal clocks, so we can go in the future, but the probelm is that we cannot return at home !It is essential considering the spherization of the spacetime. The time is not a real dimension. But a pure duration implied by the motions, here the rotations of spheres, quantical and cosmological. The time is not reversible. It is a constant of evolution.

I beleive that the bosons cannot pass c, the fermions perhaps considering that they turn in the other sense....

Regards

OK - let's have a vote

Raise your hand if you believe in CIG Theory.

OK - hands down

Now, those that don't believe. Higher, I can't see you.

Well, there you have have, Scientific proof!

doug

Good morning Steve,

It is an interesting composition. The statement about black hole, 'The laws we use to describe the rest of space-time no longer apply inside black holes' may not be correct. Some rule of thumb or empirical laws of physics may not be applicable, but universal laws are applicable every where, even inside the black hole or for that mater inside elementary particles. Please advice, if mainstream physicists think otherwise.

May I request your evaluation on my essay on 5-dimensional universe at

http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/1326

I look forward to your comments and evaluation of the essay.

Thanks & Best Regards,

Vijay Gupta

Well generally speaking no "man's" comprehensibility of thermodynamics and physics don't necessarily apply inside the event horizon.

But we do know that the singularity within a black is so great that EVEN LIGHT cannot escape.

But here is my view and beliefs, for every black hole that exist there is a white hole that exist.

Black holes and white holes are two sides of the same coin In "man's comprehension" a black hole you fall into would actually be a white hole you escaped from in the past.

But WE MUST REALIZE that time is a mere concept and nothing more, time is a measurement system that we use to measure the order in which events and occurrences happen in existence, a mere manmade concept.

So, disregarding time, when your looking at an event horizon you are actually looking at a black hole through a white hole the "event horizon" your seeing is actually light escaping from the white hole.

So if you were to go beyond the "event horizon" and look back you'd see a white hole.

Quantum dynamics approaches Classical dynamics as the rate of matter (of traveling particles) approaches stillness (velocity = zero). At zero velocity, the two (quantum & classical theory) are indistinguishable. At velocity = c, matter becomes Space.

www.CIGTheory.com