Vladimir,
Although your analysis of the constancy/inconstancy of the speed of light is insufficient, you have gone far enough towards the truth so you get maximum rating from me.
Note that my essay is no longer in the contest so there is no bargaining in my message.
Pentcho Valev
Dear Vladimir,
In the framework of the Theory of Infinite Nesting of Matter (my essay) I answer your question in such way: 1). The world consist of numerous objects (particles, stars, galaxies and so on). The matter of every objects consist of particles of low levels of matter. The physical state of matter of different objects is different. But it is possible to find coefficients of similarity between similar objects at different levels of matter and with them predict properties of objects. The wave quanta may be represented as changes of density of fluxes of gravitons which consist of neutrino, photons and charged particles similar to cosmic rays (all of it was born at low levels of matter by particles much more less then nucleons). Space is mathematical construction and realized only throw real particle and material reference frame. Flexibility of space is the same as flexibility of all reference frames - it is no more then mathematical trick. 3). How we can understand that speed of light c is constant in all inertial systems? This question is well seen in Extended special theory of relativity . It is shown that constancy of speed of light in all inertial systems may be a consequence of constancy of speed of light in isotropic reference frame where the speed is the same in all direction and may be connected with isotropy of fluxes of gravitons. Another reason is procedure of space-time measurement in special relativity which uses two-way propagation of waves. With such procedure averaging of speed of light take place giving the value of c. But real speed in a direction may be not c. See Metric theory of relativity. Ether consist of fluxes of gravitons. 4). Gravitation change only paths of photons and their energy, not the spacetime itself. Since space-time measurements use electromagnetic waves then the metric of space-time is changed in the field of gravity in relation to the Minkowski metric. So some one thinks that spacetime is warped. 5). The model of photons is in paper Cosmic Red Shift, Microwave Background, and New Particles.. The photons consist of numerous charged tiny particles, rotating around axis of motion. The model of electron is in the book: The physical theories and infinite nesting of matter.. 7). There is the model of quarks and in the model quarks are quasiparticles not real particles.
Vladimir,
Great discussion. I for one think that the vacuum of space can change or be changed to break the constancy of light speed.
For this contest, I decided to go through and comment on essays of interest and see what responses I got to my own essay. There are over 250 entries, so I narrowed down my evaluations. For only those who responded, I decided to reread and provide my evaluations before time expired, not making it a popularity contest but keeping in mind that I entered for an exchange of interesting ideas, whether I agree or not. Some concepts are superior and more persuasively supported.
I think yours comes under that guideline.
Jim
Hi Jim
Thanks for your message - the constancy of the speed of light is applicable only in cases where *measurements* are involved from one inertial frame to another. But because Einstein enshrined it into an absolute postulate in SR the concept played havoc when applied without any necessity to do so to describe gravity . SR need not apply in cases 'out there' with no observer involved, for example in the bending of light in a gravitational field.
Thanks for your kind words about my essay. In general I do not think the peer-evaluation of the contest system is fair or a good way to select the best ones. For example Eric Reiter's fqxi essay is the only one with experimental groundbreaking evidence that can really make a difference. But he chose to write it too technically and it seems to be languishing in the ratings. Please check it out and rate it. I have read and rated som 80 essays (I cannot believe I did that!) including yours. Good luck.
Vladimir
Dear Sergey
Thank you so much for your detailed explanation.I have so much to learn, and am learning everyday from interesting thinkers like you - I read about 80 fqxi essays. The papers you mentioned cover subjects of great importance, but in order to comment on them I have to read them - and I hope to do so in the near future as time (and energy - I am 70 years old!) permits.
In general I do not subscribe to the concept of photon particles, nor to gravitons. In my Beautiful Universe theory I see gravity as the effect of twisting of ether dipole nodes ...almost a topological rather than a particle explanation. I see you have read Eric Reiter's essay - where he experimentally proved that the photon is not a particle. This is an important development that will necessiate the revision of a lot of conceptual ideas.
I wish you the best
Vladimir
The problem with the speed of light is existential, not just scientific, Vladimir. If the speed of light does depend on the speed of the light source, that is, if Einstein's 1905 light postulate is false, an unavoidable conclusion is that not only Einstein's relativity but modern physics as a whole has been long dead. Einstein hinted at this in 1954 but hid the real problem behind a euphemism:
Albert Einstein (1954): "I consider it entirely possible that physics cannot be based upon the field concept, that is on continuous structures. Then nothing will remain of my whole castle in the air, including the theory of gravitation, but also nothing of the rest of contemporary physics."
Joao Magueijo is more explicit:
Joao Magueijo: "In sharp contrast, the constancy of the speed of light has remain sacred, and the term "heresy" is occasionally used in relation to "varying speed of light theories". The reason is clear: the constancy of c, unlike the constancy of G or e, is the pillar of special relativity and thus of modern physics. Varying c theories are expected to cause much more structural damage to physics formalism than other varying constant theories."
Pentcho Valev
Dear Vladimir,
I've read your very interesting paper and taken a peek at your website. I have a great appreciation of the artistic way you have expressed yourself, both verbally and pictorially. Your diagrams really are beautiful. I very much agree that the spirit of investigation and specifics you define in the title of your essay is just what is needed for the advancement of Physics today. I haven't had prior communications with members of FQXi so perhaps I'm a little behind the ball in knowing what each essay stands for besides what is actually presented within it.
I'd like to ask if you find in the contents of this essay a very real and very rigorous realization of the command "Reverse Engineer Relativity"? The mathematics may be a bit heavy in places so I wouldn't expect many to be able to follow every item, except for plasma physicists who routinely deal with the constitutive relations. But there is possibly enough verbal description to understand what is taking place there.
With best wishes,
Steve
Dear Tamari,
Thank you for an interesting essay. You are one of the few in this contest who has discussed a number of different assumptions and this reflect your broad worldwide vision of physics.
We agree in many more forms that I can write here. For instance, you quote Einstein saying that the speed of light has to "vary with position" when light curves in a gravitational field. We obtain the same conclusion from the field theoretic approach to gravity presented in my Essay. The velocity that we obtain (in the weak field limit) is
[math]v = c - \frac{2GM}{cr}[/math]
where M is the mass of the star (e.g. Sun) and r the distance. The above expression gives the observed light bending due to the gravitational field. In my essay and in the cited references I also show how the geometric interpretation of gravity is only valid as approximation, in agreement with comments you made in your Q4.
We also agree on the artificial character of the particle-wave duality. I have presented in my FQXi forum (1356) a new formulation/interpretation of QM that avoids the usual paradoxes and puzzles and demonstrates that Einstein was right in his ensemble interpretation of QM, whereas Bohr was not in their individual/Copenhagen interpretation. I loved your intelligent use of the term "zombie cats" for referring to the Schrödinger cat paradox. In future, I will use your term "zombie cats" when discussing about this paradox.
Regards
So the speed of light decreases as the light leaves the gravitational field of the star. If this light then comes here on earth, is its speed still decreased? Is the gravitational redshift we measure evidence for this decreased speed?
Pentcho Valev
If the speed of light varies with the gravitational potential, as Vladimir and Juan claim, does it vary with the speed of the observer in gravitation-free space? The answer is "yes":
"Doppler Shift. As long as the velocity of the observer, v, is much smaller than the speed of light, c, (for the case of sound waves much smaller than the speed of sound) then the expression that we derived is a very good approximation. Taking into account v may be in the opposite direction: f'=f(1±v/c). At this point you might ask why the shift in direction from the discussion of the equivalence principle. Soon, as we shall see, we can put this together with the equivalence principle to derive the gravitational redshift of light! In 1960 Pound and Rebka and later, 1965, with an improved version Pound and Snider measured the gravitational redshift of light using the Harvard tower, h=22.6m. From the equivalence principle, at the instant the light is emitted from the transmitter, only a freely falling observer will measure the same value of f that was emitted by the transmitter. But the stationary receiver is not free falling. During the time it takes light to travel to the top of the tower, t=h/c, the receiver is traveling at a velocity, v=gt, away from a free falling receiver. Hence the measured frequency is: f'=f(1-v/c)=f(1-gh/c^2)."
The stationary observer measures the speed of light to be c'=c(1-gh/c^2)=c-v. The equivalence principle converts the stationary observer into an observer "traveling at a velocity, v=gt, away from a free falling receiver". This observer also measures the speed of light to be c'=c-v.
Pentcho Valev
Yes, when light comes here on earth its speed is still decreasing per above expression.
No, the gravitational redshift is not given by the decreased speed. Note that during its travel from the source to the detector, the photon's kinetic energy varies so as to ensure conservation of energy. When the photon gets absorbed by the detector it disappears completely, so its total energy gets transferred to the detector rather than the kinetic energy alone. The photon's total energy (and its frequency) remains constant during its travel, so the attraction of photons to massive bodies does not play any role in the gravitational red shift. The true origin of the red shift is the variation of energy levels in the source and/or in the detector if they are placed in the gravitational field.
Moreover, the above result is obtained from the Hamiltonian for a photon in a gravitational field. For a massive body (e.g. atom) in a gravitational field the Hamiltonian is, in a first approximation,
[math]H = H_0 \left( 1 - \frac{GM}{rc^2}\right)[/math]
Which gives the well-tested red-shift formula
[math]\frac{\Delta E}{\Delta E_0 } = 1 - \frac{GM}{rc^2}[/math]
Dear Juan Ramón and Pentcho
Thank you for your stimulating messages. I am glad that Juan , with his sophisticated mathematical background, seems to have found many agreements with my statements, even though they are based on the mostly qualitative Beautiful Universe Theory model and earlier studies refred to therein. I have read Juan's "General relativity as geometrical approximation to a field theory of gravity"(viXra:1203.0042) and see that like a skilled matador he has tackled the General Relativity bull with skill and panache. I wish I understood the mathematical details, but from my own analysis, GR became vastly complicated because it was formulated using the language of Special Relativity SR. The simple and elegant equivalence principle (gravity = acceleration) had to carry the excessive baggage of SR with its unphysical and unrealistic postulate that c is constant. That twisted the whole universe into a complicated and unphysical geometrical pattern. In my theory gravitational potential is due to local energy gradient in the nodes making up the universal medium (the quantized ether).
To answer Pentcho's concerns, I must explain the difference between the presuppositions and hence mathematical language of SR and GR on the one hand, and my BU on the other. In SR and GR time, velocity, distance are all continuous functions, but they obey a strange and abstract rule: c is constant. These starting points lead to the Lorentz transformations and the sort of calculations Pentcho derived above.
In BU the starting points are that there is a discrete absolute background space, like points on the corners of a fixed graph. Absolute also refers to time - there is complete simultanity in this world. The maximum speed momentum can travel between nodes is c, but when the nodes are denser, they momentum travels at a slower rate. From the above starting points I have concluded through much thought-experimentation that all the experimental results of SR (clocks slowing down as length contracts, and GR ( clocks slowing down and light bending near massive objects etc.) can be derived from this BU model.
I know that such a verbal and arguments (plus visual illustrations) is not enough. When I finalized the BU model in 2005 I was hoping, and am still hoping, that some more skilful mathematician will describe this world in a rigorous mathematical description.
Take the matter of velocity addition. In a continuous medium 4+5 =9. But imagine a world where the maximum allowed number is 9 where 7+5= 9 ! What kind of math do I need for this? Perhaps an easier way to understand this 'maximum velocity' rule is to imagine a long line of soccer fans making a 'cheering' wave one person lifts his or her hands when the one before does so. Imagine the healthiest people can transmit the wave at c, but some older, less healthy people take time to transmit the wave at less than c...
And thanks Juan - no more zombie cats (and no more point photons please - read Eric Reiter's essay!) in the brave new world of physics!
Vladimir
Dear Stephen
Thank you very much for your generous comments - it is a pleasure to find that what amounts to my daydreaming and doodling over the years has found confirmation in many quarters.
I enjoyed perusing your essay and got enough out of a first reading to understand and approve of what you have done. Correct me if I am wrong, but you have started out with the Maxwell equations and by proposing a velocity=energy equivalence you have derived or explained the lambda factor of Special Relativity. Bravo! This is exactly in line with the starting assumptions of energy transport in my Beautiful Universe Theory upon which I have based my essay. As momentum is transmitted from the node stepping stones of the universal ether in this theory, it does so at a maximum velocity of (c) but when the nodes themselves rotate at higher energy the velocity is less.
The payoff in this approach is when the description of GR is reduced to a density field with variable index of optical refraction. BTW can slowing down of c in a gravitational field be expressed by a change of the ratio of the permittivity and permeability in Maxwell's equations?? Further clarification of my other ideas is in my response to the discussion below with Juan and Pentcho.
fqxi is mostly a WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) world - there is some private communication as people get to know each other year after year - this is my second contest I entered. On the site itself there are no hidden variables, except the kindness and hard work of the administrators like Brendan Foster, but I think the rating system is not working to lead to the best essays.
I wish you success
Vladimir
Dear Vladimir
You make me realize I should have paid more attention to Young and Eddington. I do so elsewhere http://iopscience.iop.org/0143-0807/30/4/014 but not in relation to Riemann. Thanks for making me think more deeply about the issues.
Your essay was sometime out of league but always fascinating, original and creative. Hope more thinkers adopt your style. Beauty is not a scientific add-on but a necessary requirement.
"The simple and elegant equivalence principle (gravity = acceleration) had to carry the excessive baggage of SR with its unphysical and unrealistic postulate that c is constant. That twisted the whole universe into a complicated and unphysical geometrical pattern."
Correct but this implies that physics has been long dead, Vladimir:
Joao Magueijo: "In sharp contrast, the constancy of the speed of light has remain sacred, and the term "heresy" is occasionally used in relation to "varying speed of light theories". The reason is clear: the constancy of c, unlike the constancy of G or e, is the pillar of special relativity and thus of modern physics. Varying c theories are expected to cause much more structural damage to physics formalism than other varying constant theories."
Albert Einstein (1954): "I consider it entirely possible that physics cannot be based upon the field concept, that is on continuous structures. Then nothing will remain of my whole castle in the air, including the theory of gravitation, but also nothing of the rest of contemporary physics."
Pentcho Valev
Dear Pentcho
Thank you for quoting me, Maguijo (which I will read) and Einstein - but I am not sure what you yourself believe on this matter when you say
"Correct but this implies that physics has been long dead, Vladimir".
I would not say dead, because even with its latter-day 'epicycles', it works. But because our minds are locked with 'constant c' and other unphysical suppositions, physics remains deadlocked.
I know that in 1916 Einstein said that the speed of light in a gravitational field had to vary - it seems that he derived that idea already in 1911...we live and learn!
See Variable Speed of Light in General Relativity
But do not worry, in the area of physics that you seem most concerned with, even in my theory in the absence of gravity or other fields measured lengths contracts and clock time dilates, so in effect c remains constant.
Vladimir
Dear Juan Miguel Marín
I see you have duplicated your reply to me on your fqxi page. I hope many people read your fascinating article for this contest. Thank you for confirming the importance of Young and Eddington's concepts of 'density' of space. I wish I could read your IOP article, but I have no means to do so from here.
Thank you for appreciating my style. And if you mean I am sometimes out of my league I must admit that of course it is true. When you fight windmills you realize your true size :)
Best wishes,
Vladimir
Dear Vladimir,
Thank you for comparing me with a "skilled matador" although I must introduce the next disclaimer: "No theories or cats were harmed in my essay" :-)
GR is based in a geometrisation principle, which states that gravitation can be completely understood in geometrical terms. This is the source of the well-known problems of GR, including the impossibility to quantize it.
The field theory of gravity (FTG) abandons this geometrisation principle and embraces an unification principle where gravity is described as a force (although the gravitational force is more complex than the electromagnetic force of course). Geometrical gravity (GR) is an approximation to physical gravity (FTG), somehow as geometrical optics is an approximation to physical optics. Below I attach images of light bending as spacetime curvature (GR) vs light bending as gravitational force (FTG). Feel free to reuse them in your future works if you like them.
Finally, I must say that I agree about abandoning the point photons. My point of view is similar to that by Feynman. As stated in my essay. I could not write about other topics because of the size-limit for this contest!Attachment #1: flatspacetime.gifAttachment #2: curvedspacetime.gif
Vladimir,
You contradict yourself:
You wrote: "The simple and elegant equivalence principle (gravity = acceleration) had to carry the excessive baggage of SR with its unphysical and unrealistic postulate that c is constant. That twisted the whole universe into a complicated and unphysical geometrical pattern."
But then you wrote: "But do not worry, in the area of physics that you seem most concerned with, even in my theory in the absence of gravity or other fields measured lengths contracts and clock time dilates, so in effect c remains constant."
Perhaps, if Einstein's speed-of-light postulate is "unphysical and unrealistic", then its consequences - length contraction and time dilation - are just theoretical artifacts that correspond to nothing in the real world?
Pentcho Valev
Dear Vladimir F. Tamari,
First I would like to thank you for pointing out some 5 very good essays in this competition. All of them are great and represent a new thought process integrated into contemporary interpretation of nature. They all represent a much higher level of understanding of contemporary physics than that is available with me. My comments are therefore reflective of an enterpretation from Pico-Physics point of view of reality that is subject matter of the discussions at these blogs.
I will try to summarise my comments in a logical fashion, and provide the same in this blog. In this essay, you have brought out the difficulty of contemporary thought processes in physics to present an integrated view of nature.
Pico-Physics starts with the assumption that this is very much on the cards and identifies a power statement (Unary Law) 'Space Contains Matter (Knergy)' as the point of integration. PicoPhysics starts from here, and with minimal additional assumptions is able to explain observations on nature. You will get a glimpse of the same on my comments on the topics of these essays.
Thanks & Best Regards,
Vijay Gupta
Note:
PicoPhysics was the name given to my thought process to make it in-personal. It means a thought process which is independant of dimensions of object and observer. Thus the mother law is valid and true in all dimensions sub particle to dimensions of universe (astronomical).
Unary law - 'Sapce Contains Matter-Knergy', In PicoPhysics is new first principle sought in your essay.
My essay 5-dimensions of universe is an attempt to guage the reaction to basic concepts in PicoPhysics. It is simple, and power statement at variance to general preception and thought process 3-4 dimensions of space without contradicting the same that reflects truth. It was expected that it will attract people's attention.
In Picophysics we prove 'space' in unary law needs to have 3-dimensions and then identify with space of contemporary physics.
I believe still more factual evidence is required for people to get out of the concept of conservation and understand need to ammend the same to Konservation.
I am more or less retired, as a result of stroke I suffered last year. So I spend some time on this blog and document some thoughts that I developed since 1960s. PicoPhysics work gives me a satisfaction of being able to understand the nature and being at piece with it. The short life expectancy is also a motivation to create my blog at picophysics.org
