Does Gravitational Collapse Lead to Singularities? by Ernst Fischer

[deleted]

Heaven Breasts and Heaven Calculus

http://vixra.org/abs/1209.0072

Since the birth of mankind, human beings have been looking for the origin of life. The fact that human history is the history of warfare and cannibalism proves that humans have not identified their origin. Humanity is still in the dark phase of lower animals. Humans can see the phenomenon of life only on Earth, and humans' vision does not exceed the one of lower animals. However, it is a fact that human beings have inherited the most advanced gene of life. Humans should be able to answer the following questions: Is the Universe hierarchical? What is Heaven? Is Heaven the origin of life? Is Heaven a higher order of life? For more than a decade, I have done an in-depth study on barred galaxy structure. Today (September 17, 2012) I suddenly discovered that the characteristic structure of barred spiral galaxies resembles the breasts of human female essentially. If the rational structure conjecture presented in the article is proved then Sun must be a mirror of the universe, and mankind is exactly the image on earth of the Heaven.

http://galaxyanatomy.com

Juan Ramón González Álvarez

Dear Ernst Fisher,

You are right about collapse, singularities, and dark energy.

As explained in the section 7 of my essay, general relativity relies on approximating the total stress-energy tensor by the tensor for matter alone, ignoring the interaction T_{int}^{\mu\nu} and gravitational T_{grav}^{\mu\nu} components. Effectively, when one considers those components the black holes and its singularities cannot form. You consider only the potential correction, but it is easy to show that a positive 'pressure' from the gravitational component T_{grav}^{\mu\nu} impedes the collapse of massive stars and other objects. One of the traditional problems of general relativity --that of singularities-- is absent in the improved theory. You are right on that the singular states occurring in GR should be regarded as "a purely mathematical approximation".

You are also right on that adding the potential component is needed to recover conservation of energy. But we need to consider also the gravitational component T_{grav}^{\mu\nu} in the general law of conservation --eq. 26 in the reference [9] in my essay--. Your law of conservation is an approximation valid when there is not interchange between the material system and the graviton field.

In the last part of your essay you speculate that the potential energy of matter would play the role of dark energy in a cosmological context. Again this is right! When we consider the missing terms in general relativity we arrive to the general equation (27) in the reference [9] in my Essay. I already computed the 'dark energy' term T_{DE}^{\mu\nu} in equation (27) and I got that it predicts a cosmological constant \Lambda in excellent agreement with last observations. Of course, the physical interpretation is different, it is not a true constant such as h or c but a parameter of our universe such as density.

Regards.

Ernst Fischer

Dear Juan R. González-Álvarez

You are right that the approximation of the stress-energy tensor by the tensor for matter alone is not correct. But it is the basic concept of general relativity that there is no gravitational field which contains energy or momentum. Instead the effect of gravitation is encoded in the geometry of space-time. So there is no component T_{grav}^{\mu\nu} in the energy tensor. But this does not imply that the interaction part T_{int}^{\mu\nu} is zero, too. While field energy of the gravitational field should depend on the square of the deviation from Minkowskian geometry, the interaction term depends linearly on the matter distribution and on the deviation parameter of the geometry. What I have done is just to include this interaction term into the balance.

It is this interaction term, which is sufficient to avoid the formation of singularities not only in the so called black holes, but also the Big Bang singularity as a starting point of the universe. It can replace the dark energy, but the fact remains that there must be some kind of dark matter, which influences the dynamics of galaxies and clusters. After all I think that general relativity is not so bad. We only have to apply the mathematics of curved space-time in the correct way. In my essay I mentioned that with inclusion of the interaction term (or potential energy term) a stable static solution of the Einstein equation is possible. The attempt to explain all cosmological observations within such a model, you can find in an article which I sent to arXiv some years ago (An equilibrium balance of the universe, arXiv:0708.3577 )

I hope that your datermination of the cosmological term leads to the same result, which I have used as derived from the Hubble constant.

Regards,

Ernst

Juan Ramón González Álvarez

Dear Ernst,

Effectively, general relativity is obtained in the limit when both the gravitational field and the interaction part T_{int}^{\mu\nu} are neglected, leaving a purely geometrical description of gravitation.

You say that the "field energy of the gravitational field should depend on the square of the deviation from Minkowskian geometry". The field depends on the gravitational potential h_{\mu\nu}, which in general diverges from the deviation from Minkoskian geometry. Only in a weak field limit both coincide [9]. Moreover, the interaction term depends linearly on the matter distribution only as a first approximation. This term is much more complex because gravitons also interact with the linear interaction term.

Yes, you reintroduce partially the missing interaction part, providing a modification of general relativity. I agree with that modification. Precisely in [9] I wrote the generalized equation (27), with terms that replace dark matter and dark energy. Computation of those new term is in agreement with observations --including observations which are in conflict with dark matter models--. Neither dark matter nor dark energy are needed anymore.

As stated in [9], a modification of GR that includes only a generalization of the ordinary source T^{\mu\nu} is a bit "tricky". Why? Because you cannot arbitrarily modify the right-hand side of the Hilbert-Einstein equations without modifying the left-hand side as well. Fortunately you can still use Einstein tensor for weak fields, but for strong fields this tensor has to be extended as well.

Regards

[deleted]

Ernst Fischer,

Congratulations, your excellent essay is in the top 35 essays of this contest.

Please answer my final two questions on your essay.

1. As a final conclusion of your essay, which of our 'Basic Physical Assumptions' are wrong in your opinion?

2. As per the main thrust of your essay, you are proposing to include the potential energy term in the EFE of GR. Assuming the existing framework of GR yields the correct (as per current observations) dynamic and kinematic solutions for the motion of earth in our solar system, what changes the inclusion of your 'potential energy' term will introduce in such solutions for the motion of earth in our solar system?

Anonymous

Ernst Fischer

Dear Anonymus,

The basic assumption which is wrong in the current description of garavity by general relativiy is that energy conservation should be valid only locally, but not on global scale. The effects of gravitation on the definition of energy density are ommitted in the energy tensor.

Solutions of GR for the motion of the earth in the solar system are only marginally affected by the inclusion of potential energy, as the ratio of potential energy of the earth to its mass energy Mc^2 in the gravitational field of the sun is of the order 10^-8. That means that for the time span for which observations or fossil records of the system earth-sun exist, no significant effects are expected. Only on the scale of the Hubble time changes are expected, as angular momentum may have been changed by transfer of kinetic energy to potential energy. But such effects result only from the Lorentz invariance of GR together with the inclusion of potential energy. In my essay I have only considered equilibrium situations, though, of course, exact static equilibria are not possible, when there is motion of any form. The description of highly dynamical processes like the actual gravitational collapse of stars or galaxies and the formation of matter jets from these systems may be strongly influenced by the inclusion of potential energy.

Regards,

Ernst Fischer

Sergey Fedosin

Dear Ernst,

I think that < singular states occurring in GRT should be regarded as a purely mathematical approximation> as in your essay. I agree with you that < There is no horizon, from which no escape of matter or radiation is possible and black holes as singular points of infinite density cannot exist.> It seems there is a misprint in the second part of the formula (7) of your essay. May be it will be interesting for you: Covariant theory of gravitation .

Sergey Fedosin

Ernst Fischer

Dear Sergey,

Thank you for the hint to the misprint in eq.(7). There is a factor r^2 missing, as can easily deduced from eq.(6). In the next days I will look to your covariant theory of gravitation more in detail.

Regards,

Ernst

[deleted]

Dear Ernst,

The present top rating of your essay is exactly where I like it to be. Not only your peers have given it high ratings, but as a lay(wo)man I too feel that you have something of great importance to say (eventhough I cannot follow your eqations but briefly). Keep the top ranking is my best wish to you!

Inger

James Dwyer

Dear Ernst,

I must commend you on your excellent responses to so many commentators. As have so many others, I have also found your topic to be stimulating for some time. I must explain though that I'm a simple retired information systems analyst with no education or background in physics and only simple math. I think you can determine much from the descriptive title of my essay, Inappropriate Application of Kepler's Empirical Laws of Planetary Motion to Spiral Galaxies Created the Perceived Galaxy Rotation Problem - Thereby Establishing a Galactic Presence for the Elusive, Inferred Dark Matter. All that said, if you can bear with some improper terminology I'd very much appreciate your brief consideration...

It's obvious that no amount of physical matter could possibly fit within a dimensionless singularity, yet SMBHs have observationally been confirmed to represent at least some exceeding compact enormously massive object.

Considering what form of physical matter might produce such a dense mass, the next densest material object should be evaluated. As I understand, Neutron stars, produced by gravitational collapse, are thought to consist mostly of neutrons, with a core that may contain a hyperdense free quark-gluon plasma. This poses a problem, since these are the densest forms of matter known, yet Neutron stars do not seem to approach the density or compact gravitational characteristics exhibited by SMBHs.

It seems clear then that no form of physical matter could produce the properties required of a black hole singularity, yet the existence of some type of object more dense and compact than a Neutron star has been confirmed.

I suggest that these conditions require the separation of matter's dimensional occupancy requirements from its potential mass-energy capacity for producing gravitational effects (described in GRT as the curvature of spacetime).

Accreted massive objects are decomposed and their constituent atoms seem to be disintegrated by the processing of the extreme conditions of compaction and collision while being accelerated toward the event horizon. If in fact all these material elements are ejected as streams of high energy fundamental particles, x rays and gamma rays, perhaps even the potential mass energy previously configured within the processed materials is separated, analogous to the dispersal of elementary particles and mass produced by high energy particle colliders.

In this case, I suggest that only the potential mass-energy of ejected material is retained within the event horizon, that it collectively distorts spacetime to be exceedingly curved in relation to a single geometric focal point - a singularity. The singularity is simply to focus of retained potential energy while all dimensional matter has been extracted and ejected through the relativistic polar jets.

This scenario is speculative if not even fanciful, of course, but would allow the coexistence of effective singularities without unphysical states of matter and the appearance of relativistic jets.

I'd be very pleased if you can consider these 'wild' ideas briefly and comment freely.

Sincerely, Jim

Ernst Fischer

Dear Jim,

You correctly state that no finite amount of matter can fit into a dimensionless singularity. But the compact centers of galaxies, the SMBHs are not such singular point masses. It is only that the (wrong) balance equations of the conventional GR treatment lead to the assumption that there exists an upper limit for the mass of collapsed objects, which are stabilized by degeneracy pressure of neutrons (or possibly by a quark gluon plasma).

By the way, there is no observational evidence that the SMBHs in the centers of galaxies must have a density much higher than neutron stars. At present by observations even for the milky way spatial resolution is about two orders of magnitude less than necessary to discriminete objects of the size of an alledged event horizon.

As you have written, in this highly condensed state, be it a pure neutron plasma or some more exotic state consisting of quarks, gluons or other high energy elementary particles, ordinary atomic species cannot exist, but will be formed only in the jets, which emanate from the collapsed cores. But there is no event horizon inside which matter can be included without the possibility to be recycled into space.

The existence of event horizons is only a consequence of the inaccurate application of differential geometry to the problem of gravitation. Physics in curved space differs more from Euclidean geometry than assumed in conventional treatment of gravitational interaction. Quantities like density lose their innate meaning, when volume is no longer a conserved quantity but is subject to dynamical changes.

As I think that there exist no event horizons, I cannot agree with your idea of the existence of a singular focal point of potential energy. To my opinion potential energy must be directly coupled to matter. It is the response of matter to being surrounded by other matter or energy fields.

I hope that my comments will stimulate your thoughts to further ideas on gravity. Your comments were helpful in the discussion.

Regards,

Ernst

James Dwyer

Dear Ernst,

Yes, I was merely presuming the common general conception of black holes and applying them to galactic SMBHs. However, as I understand the most massive pulsar observed is thought to be less than 2 Solar masses, while the total mass of the SMBH at center of the Milky Way has been estimated at more than 4 million Solar masses based on the orbital characteristics of nearby stars. It would seem that even unknown exotic forms of degenerate matter would have finite limits in their degeneracy pressure, limiting the total mass of any physical object. I can't reasonably evaluate, though.

The rational for separation of configured mass energy from quantum particles comes directly from the disintegration of massive particles in collider experiments. It seems that in such cases potential mass energy is thought to be dissipated into the environment through the manifestation of short-lived exotic particles. However, within an exceedingly dense gravitational field (I think only indirectly described in GRT through changing dimensional coordinates of spacetime), the potential energy of particle mass might be imparted directly as gravitational effects (curving spacetime). That particles of matter can disintegrate, including their configured potential mass-energy, seems to have been definitively established by collider experiments...

I do very much appreciate you consideration and realize that I'm only skimming the surface of possibilities, without fully establishing any basis for my interpretation within the context of physical laws. That's so much easier...

Sincerely, Jim

Vladimir Tamari

Dear Ernst, I hope this finds you well.

Hello. This is group message to you and the writers of some 80 contest essays that I have already read, rated and probably commented on.

This year I feel proud that the following old and new online friends have accepted my suggestion that they submit their ideas to this contest. Please feel free to read, comment on and rate these essays (including mine) if you have not already done so, thanks:

Why We Still Don't Have Quantum Nucleodynamics by Norman D. Cook a summary of his Springer book on the subject.

A Challenge to Quantized Absorption by Experiment and Theory by Eric Stanley Reiter Very important experiments based on Planck's loading theory, proving that Einstein's idea that the photon is a particle is wrong.

An Artist's Modest Proposal by Kenneth Snelson The world-famous inventor of Tensegrity applies his ideas of structure to de Broglie's atom.

Notes on Relativity by Edward Hoerdt Questioning how the Michelson-Morely experiment is analyzed in the context of Special Relativity

Vladimir Tamari's essay Fix Physics! Is Physics like a badly-designed building? A humorous illustrate take. Plus: Seven foundational questions suggest a new beginning.

Thank you and good luck.

Vladimir

Sergey Fedosin

After studying about 250 essays in this contest, I realize now, how can I assess the level of each submitted work. Accordingly, I rated some essays, including yours.

Cood luck.

Sergey Fedosin

Georgina Woodward

Your essay seems well appreciated by the community- congratulations : ) Georgina

Sergey Fedosin

If you do not understand why your rating dropped down. As I found ratings in the contest are calculated in the next way. Suppose your rating is [math]R_1 [/math] and [math]N_1 [/math] was the quantity of people which gave you ratings. Then you have [math]S_1=R_1 N_1 [/math] of points. After it anyone give you [math]dS [/math] of points so you have [math]S_2=S_1+ dS [/math] of points and [math]N_2=N_1+1 [/math] is the common quantity of the people which gave you ratings. At the same time you will have [math]S_2=R_2 N_2 [/math] of points. From here, if you want to be R2 > R1 there must be: [math]S_2/ N_2>S_1/ N_1 [/math] or [math] (S_1+ dS) / (N_1+1) >S_1/ N_1 [/math] or [math] dS >S_1/ N_1 =R_1[/math] In other words if you want to increase rating of anyone you must give him more points [math]dS [/math] then the participant`s rating [math]R_1 [/math] was at the moment you rated him. From here it is seen that in the contest are special rules for ratings. And from here there are misunderstanding of some participants what is happened with their ratings. Moreover since community ratings are hided some participants do not sure how increase ratings of others and gives them maximum 10 points. But in the case the scale from 1 to 10 of points do not work, and some essays are overestimated and some essays are drop down. In my opinion it is a bad problem with this Contest rating process. I hope the FQXI community will change the rating process.

Sergey Fedosin

[deleted]

Dear Ernst,

You are right about the point that gravitational collapse does not lead to multiple singularities, as there is only one singularity - the universe itself. The universe is in a "Steady Big Bang State". The question you pose is similar to what happens when one dies? Answer is one just trasnforms in to anothoer being.

who am I? I "am" a variant, i is the constant.

Please see Conscience is the cosmological constant.

Absolute truth is zero = i = infinity.

Theory (divine view) of everything is that there is absolutely nothing but "i".

Love,

Sridattadev.

Jayakar Joseph

Dear Ernst Fischer,

Potential energy described in Coherently-cyclic cluster-matter paradigm of universe, is the tensor product on eigen-rotation of a string-segment in that its inertial angular-velocity is causal for that potential energy. Thus the potential energy of an eigen-rotational string-segment is equivalent to the inertial angular kinetic energy of that string-segment. As the angular kinetic energy of an eigen-rotational string-segment is conserved by homeomorphism with other coherent eigen-rotational string-segments, no gravitational collapse of that string-segment and no gravitational singularity are expressional in this paradigm, in that the dark energy is the energy of non-observational eigen-rotational dark matter of strings in the holarchy of universe.

With best wishes

Jayakar

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