Does Gravitational Collapse Lead to Singularities? by Ernst Fischer

Dear Ernst,

You have written a well-argued essay and I am very sympathetic to your point of view. What I would like to know is, surely redefining the Energy-Momentum Tensor in the way you suggest should have observable consequences testable by direct experiment? For instance, would the application of your idea to a Pound-Rebka Experiment (possibly over a much larger distance than the original one) not give a prediction that deviates from that of standard GR? If so, I think it should be tested.

All the best,

Armin

Dear Dr. Fisher,

Thank you for clarifying the point. My original questions was motivated by the fact that already in classical physics potential energy is in a sense a shared property between the test particle and the source mass, but you are correct, the fact that the earth is much more massive does not allow your idea to be tested in this way.

However, what do you think of this possible experiment: Place two objects that are as much as possible equal in mass (and shape) at a Lagrangian point, where the earth and Sun's gravity fields cancel. Then measure their relative acceleration towards each other. It seems to me that under your idea, the relative acceleration should be very slightly higher than under standard GR. Of course, the idea needs to be quantitatively fleshed out to see whether the effect is even realistically measurable, but for now, let us just consider this in principle. Is my statement of the prediction of your idea correct?

Armin

Ernst, what is not actual, true/real, and natural may be held to be potential; as we cannot experience outer space. The sensiblity and comprehensibility of outer space is, and will remain, lacking. Telescopic observations GENERALLY make matters even less sensible. Outer space is, in an important sense, less real. Truth and reality go together -- WITH NATURAL EXPERIENCE TOO.

Dear Fischer,

Your introduction states that GRT is the best description of gravitational interaction. But the Newtonian concept is more simple. The perihelion shift is the only thing that cannot be explained by that classical concept.

The problem of singularity appears in Newtonian gravity also.The reason is we take the mathematical equation as a 'physical law'. If we put a physical limit to gravity, and include that in the equation, the equation can be made finite, and the singularity can thus be avoided.For example,in the case of two moving bodies, their motion physically opposes the attraction which tries to bring them together in a resultant direction.So the force components that oppose this can be represented in terms of one of the masses as (-mv^2)/d.

So in the case of a body orbiting another, gravitational energy used becomes equal to kinetic energy.That is, gravity need be balanced by kinetic energy and there need not be any static orbit. This removes the perihelion anomaly also.

1/2mv² =mgh=.........they turn so they are :)and the finite number is ....

Ernst,

While my math skills are poor, I fully agree with your explanation of curvature on physical terms and that current theory is a simplistic abstraction of part of the process. I am concerned that in the last few lines you seems to assume a finite universe. ? As I see it, Big Bang theory is based on the same conceptual simplifications being reconstituted in physically illogical and impossible fashion, as that which assumes singularities.

The point I concentrate on in my entry is that we focus on the effect of time(sequence and the measure thereof) and not its cause; action. It's not the present moving from past to future, but the changing configuration of what physically exists, turning future potential into actual present and then residual past. Not the earth traveling a narrative dimension from yesterday to tomorrow, but tomorrow becoming yesterday because the earth rotates. Since this makes time an effect of action and not its cause, spacetime is simply correlation of distance and duration, not some underlaying foundation. This leave space as an aphysical infinite inertia. Consider that centrifugal force is the relationship of spin to inertia, not some outside reference.

Since I've had little luck in getting others to think through the consequences of this on current explanations of cosmology, I've been forced to devise my own crude model. In doing so, I've come to see it as a form of convective cycle of expanding energy and contracting mass. This is in accordance with your far more educated description, in that as mass/structure contracts, it sheds radiant energy. Eventually what remains is ejected out the poles in those jets.

I think a major part of expansion and contraction is due to the basic interaction of such processes with the inert geometry of space. I suspect that light doesn't travel as a point particle, but expands to fill available space and the received quanta are a sample of this, not a singular particle. Thus redshift is largely due to the dispersion of increasing volume with increased distance. As for gravity, when energy is released from mass, it creates pressure. Think shock wave of a nuclear explosion. So wouldn't energy fusing into mass logically have the opposite effect of creating a vacuum, since it occupies less space? If we follow this process from cosmic rays potentially condensing into interstellar gases in the near zero temperatures of the outer reaches of galaxies, all the way down to the fusion within stars and the pressurization in the cores of large planets, not to mention all the radiant energy being directly absorbed, it would create a seemingly empty force of even consistency, closely related to mass, but as a dynamic effect of the creation and condensing of mass, than just a property of it.

One other problem I have with the expanding space theory is as to what is the basis of C, if space truly expands? How can we say the space expands and then use lightyears as a measure of that expansion? What is the vacuum that light is crossing at a constant speed, if it's not space?

Also, Einstein argued gravity contracts space and devised the CC to balance it. Now it's argued the expansion is a CC, but galaxies are treated as inert point of reference!!! According to relativity, they are contracting space, therefore absorbing the expanding intergalactic space.Now the light from those most distant galaxies can only reach us by traveling the most empty routes and thus be most affected by crossing this inergalactic space, so the redshift is compounded.

I will append this note with a few additional observations on the subject of time, that have either occurred or been clarified in discussions subsequent to my writing that essay:

"Like temperature, time emerges from basic thermodynamic activity. Clock rates vary, as levels of activity vary. More activity, faster clock rate. If time were a dimension from past to future, one would think a faster clock rate would travel into the future more quickly, but the opposite is true. As it ages/burns quicker, it moves into the past faster. The twin in the faster frame is dead when her twin in the slower frame returns.

Duration is not some dimension that transcends the present, but is the state of the present between detection events.

Since the lightcone of any event is incomplete prior to the event, the future is probabilistic, even if the laws deciding its outcome are deterministic.

It is the collapse of probabilities which yields actualities, so the cat is not both dead and alive, because there is no external timeline moving the present from past to future, but the actual occurrence of events turning future into past.

Cause and effect is not sequence, but energy exchange. Yesterday didn't cause today, any more than one rung on a ladder causes the next. It is the sun radiating on this rotating planet that creates this sequencing called days. Time is an effect, not a cause.

Knowledge is created inductively, as future becomes past, but is used deductively, as the past is used to predict the future."

Now I may be completely out to lunch on a lot of this, but at least it doesn't have multiworlds, blocktime, wormholes, inflation, dark matter, dark energy, multiverses, etc, but is just my own little stab at tying up some loose ends.

Heaven Breasts and Heaven Calculus

http://vixra.org/abs/1209.0072

Since the birth of mankind, human beings have been looking for the origin of life. The fact that human history is the history of warfare and cannibalism proves that humans have not identified their origin. Humanity is still in the dark phase of lower animals. Humans can see the phenomenon of life only on Earth, and humans' vision does not exceed the one of lower animals. However, it is a fact that human beings have inherited the most advanced gene of life. Humans should be able to answer the following questions: Is the Universe hierarchical? What is Heaven? Is Heaven the origin of life? Is Heaven a higher order of life? For more than a decade, I have done an in-depth study on barred galaxy structure. Today (September 17, 2012) I suddenly discovered that the characteristic structure of barred spiral galaxies resembles the breasts of human female essentially. If the rational structure conjecture presented in the article is proved then Sun must be a mirror of the universe, and mankind is exactly the image on earth of the Heaven.

http://galaxyanatomy.com

Dear Ernst Fisher,

You are right about collapse, singularities, and dark energy.

As explained in the section 7 of my essay, general relativity relies on approximating the total stress-energy tensor by the tensor for matter alone, ignoring the interaction T_{int}^{\mu\nu} and gravitational T_{grav}^{\mu\nu} components. Effectively, when one considers those components the black holes and its singularities cannot form. You consider only the potential correction, but it is easy to show that a positive 'pressure' from the gravitational component T_{grav}^{\mu\nu} impedes the collapse of massive stars and other objects. One of the traditional problems of general relativity --that of singularities-- is absent in the improved theory. You are right on that the singular states occurring in GR should be regarded as "a purely mathematical approximation".

You are also right on that adding the potential component is needed to recover conservation of energy. But we need to consider also the gravitational component T_{grav}^{\mu\nu} in the general law of conservation --eq. 26 in the reference [9] in my essay--. Your law of conservation is an approximation valid when there is not interchange between the material system and the graviton field.

In the last part of your essay you speculate that the potential energy of matter would play the role of dark energy in a cosmological context. Again this is right! When we consider the missing terms in general relativity we arrive to the general equation (27) in the reference [9] in my Essay. I already computed the 'dark energy' term T_{DE}^{\mu\nu} in equation (27) and I got that it predicts a cosmological constant \Lambda in excellent agreement with last observations. Of course, the physical interpretation is different, it is not a true constant such as h or c but a parameter of our universe such as density.

Regards.

Dear Ernst,

Effectively, general relativity is obtained in the limit when both the gravitational field and the interaction part T_{int}^{\mu\nu} are neglected, leaving a purely geometrical description of gravitation.

You say that the "field energy of the gravitational field should depend on the square of the deviation from Minkowskian geometry". The field depends on the gravitational potential h_{\mu\nu}, which in general diverges from the deviation from Minkoskian geometry. Only in a weak field limit both coincide [9]. Moreover, the interaction term depends linearly on the matter distribution only as a first approximation. This term is much more complex because gravitons also interact with the linear interaction term.

Yes, you reintroduce partially the missing interaction part, providing a modification of general relativity. I agree with that modification. Precisely in [9] I wrote the generalized equation (27), with terms that replace dark matter and dark energy. Computation of those new term is in agreement with observations --including observations which are in conflict with dark matter models--. Neither dark matter nor dark energy are needed anymore.

As stated in [9], a modification of GR that includes only a generalization of the ordinary source T^{\mu\nu} is a bit "tricky". Why? Because you cannot arbitrarily modify the right-hand side of the Hilbert-Einstein equations without modifying the left-hand side as well. Fortunately you can still use Einstein tensor for weak fields, but for strong fields this tensor has to be extended as well.

Regards

Ernst Fischer,

Congratulations, your excellent essay is in the top 35 essays of this contest.

Please answer my final two questions on your essay.

1. As a final conclusion of your essay, which of our 'Basic Physical Assumptions' are wrong in your opinion?

2. As per the main thrust of your essay, you are proposing to include the potential energy term in the EFE of GR. Assuming the existing framework of GR yields the correct (as per current observations) dynamic and kinematic solutions for the motion of earth in our solar system, what changes the inclusion of your 'potential energy' term will introduce in such solutions for the motion of earth in our solar system?

Anonymous

Dear Ernst,

I think that < singular states occurring in GRT should be regarded as a purely mathematical approximation> as in your essay. I agree with you that < There is no horizon, from which no escape of matter or radiation is possible and black holes as singular points of infinite density cannot exist.> It seems there is a misprint in the second part of the formula (7) of your essay. May be it will be interesting for you: Covariant theory of gravitation .

Sergey Fedosin

Dear Ernst,

The present top rating of your essay is exactly where I like it to be. Not only your peers have given it high ratings, but as a lay(wo)man I too feel that you have something of great importance to say (eventhough I cannot follow your eqations but briefly). Keep the top ranking is my best wish to you!

Inger

Dear Ernst,

I must commend you on your excellent responses to so many commentators. As have so many others, I have also found your topic to be stimulating for some time. I must explain though that I'm a simple retired information systems analyst with no education or background in physics and only simple math. I think you can determine much from the descriptive title of my essay, Inappropriate Application of Kepler's Empirical Laws of Planetary Motion to Spiral Galaxies Created the Perceived Galaxy Rotation Problem - Thereby Establishing a Galactic Presence for the Elusive, Inferred Dark Matter. All that said, if you can bear with some improper terminology I'd very much appreciate your brief consideration...

It's obvious that no amount of physical matter could possibly fit within a dimensionless singularity, yet SMBHs have observationally been confirmed to represent at least some exceeding compact enormously massive object.

Considering what form of physical matter might produce such a dense mass, the next densest material object should be evaluated. As I understand, Neutron stars, produced by gravitational collapse, are thought to consist mostly of neutrons, with a core that may contain a hyperdense free quark-gluon plasma. This poses a problem, since these are the densest forms of matter known, yet Neutron stars do not seem to approach the density or compact gravitational characteristics exhibited by SMBHs.

It seems clear then that no form of physical matter could produce the properties required of a black hole singularity, yet the existence of some type of object more dense and compact than a Neutron star has been confirmed.

I suggest that these conditions require the separation of matter's dimensional occupancy requirements from its potential mass-energy capacity for producing gravitational effects (described in GRT as the curvature of spacetime).

Accreted massive objects are decomposed and their constituent atoms seem to be disintegrated by the processing of the extreme conditions of compaction and collision while being accelerated toward the event horizon. If in fact all these material elements are ejected as streams of high energy fundamental particles, x rays and gamma rays, perhaps even the potential mass energy previously configured within the processed materials is separated, analogous to the dispersal of elementary particles and mass produced by high energy particle colliders.

In this case, I suggest that only the potential mass-energy of ejected material is retained within the event horizon, that it collectively distorts spacetime to be exceedingly curved in relation to a single geometric focal point - a singularity. The singularity is simply to focus of retained potential energy while all dimensional matter has been extracted and ejected through the relativistic polar jets.

This scenario is speculative if not even fanciful, of course, but would allow the coexistence of effective singularities without unphysical states of matter and the appearance of relativistic jets.

I'd be very pleased if you can consider these 'wild' ideas briefly and comment freely.

Sincerely, Jim