Hi Michael,

You have raised a number of interesting issues. I will number my responses to them for clarity.

(1) You wrote: "...the assertion of S^7 ONLY precludes the possibility in physics that the two spaces have different origins such that the S^3 is not a physical subspace of S^7."

The "S^7 only" assertion is not strictly necessary for my analysis to go through. However, from the point of view of quantum correlations, separation of S^3 from S^7 in the manner you have suggested seems to be unjustified. In my picture quantum correlations are correlations among events occurring within spacetime---or equivalently among the clicks of a network of detectors. As far as EPR type correlations are concerned these events can be viewed as occurring within S^3. But S^3 is definitely not enough to reproduce quantum correlations beyond those exhibited by the 2-level systems. For example, the correlations exhibited by the GHZ state can only be reproduced as events occurring within a parallelized 7-sphere. To be sure, the clicks we observe appear to us as occurring within R^3. So the "extra" dimensions of S^7 are certainly hidden from us in that sense, but these dimensions are not necessarily compactified as in your work. In fact I tend to view the correlations exhibited by states like GHZ as the *evidence* that the rotation group of the physical space is S^7, not S^3, with the latter being only a special case of S^7. Still, this does not seem to necessitate the "S^7 only" assertion.

(2) Like Tom, I very much like your meta-principle: "make no preference. This means no preferred speed, ie. the speed of light is always the same, no preferred location (homogeneity) and no preferred direction (isotropy) - these also say no boundary to the space." Absolutely marvellous!

(3) But the following separation is potentially in conflict with my analysis: "With space being S^3 and the 'particle space' being S^7..."

For the reasons explained above, in my analysis the separation of S^3 as "physical space" from S^7 as "particle space" is not justified. All measurement events are occurring within S^7, but we only see them as occurring within R^3. This, however, does not seem to be in conflict with your earlier statement that "physical S^7 space at every point x in the locally flat R^3 space appears to give the point at which to start considering comparisons with Joy's work."

(2) Much of what you say in your Part 2 below has to do with the 'flattening' you require to get QT fully consistent and complete. The flattening required for my analysis to go through has to do with "absolute parallelism", as in teleparallel gravity. Since both S^3 and S^7 are simply-connected manifolds, absolute parallelism is equivalent to their curvature tensors vanishing identically, with torsions within them remaining non-zero in general. This is automatically the case if we view S^3 and S^7 as sets of unit quaternions and octonions, respectively. The very algebra of quaternions and octonions then provides means to define orthonormal frames at each point of these manifolds. This however induces torsional twists within them, and it is these twists in the manifolds that are responsible for what we observe as strong quantum correlations. The latter have nothing to do with non-locality or entanglement per se, because the distant events within S^3 and S^7 are now causally linked by distant parallelism in a non-mysterious way. In other words, in my picture the correlations between distant events are no more mysterious than the innocent correlation between Dr. Bertlmann's socks discussed by Bell.

Best,

Joy

A few number of persons understand really the uncompleteness of Godel.If now people thinks that they have understood just because they make politeness between them.So indeed there is a probelm.

And the rule of the Institute of Advanced Studies is to be rational and deterministic. This Institute cannot be corrupted. and cannot be irrational.

Furthermore, the responsability of an institute like this one cannot imply confusions.

The axiom of dimensionality is not accepted at my knowledge. So why they insist ??? For the sell of books or what ?

the incompleteness of Godel shows us how we can axiomatize our foundamentals. It is like the hidden variables in fact. We cannot confound the young evolution of our universal sphere, and so our unknowns.With bizare irrational superimposings where our universal laws loose their meaning. I don't understand why people interpret the incompleteness like that. It is sad in fact. We are just young at the universal scale.And so it is logic to have unknowns, but they are rational these hidden variables,not need of extradimensions. The axiom of dimensions is not a reality, only the 3D is rational and this time constant of evolution. The geometrical algebras are not there to imply confusions, but are there to improve our equations with determinism. The beauty of sciences is to discover the truths, not to imply confusions by pseudo parallelizations. The walls separating this infinite light without rotations above our physicality, and the light inside a sphere in evolution. The central spheres are the secret of codes of singularities. The informations can only be transmitted by this infinity inside the main central spheres of systems of uniqueness. Why so the people wants to invent false hidden varibales. It is the road towards our main codes, these central spheres which are important. The "infinite" light creates the "finite" light !!! all is connected by this light indeed , but the real interEst is to understand the physical dynamic in taking it like a project of optimization. Why hidden variables or bizare decoherences ???? The universe is a dterministic spacetime. Godel and Cantor are in a bar, do you think that they think that the glass of beer is an infinite system or a pure number entangled spheres.In the same time, they can add, derivate or integrate, or multiplicate these numbers.....so is it infinite, or is it relativistic in the meaning of this infinity and the infinities and the finite groups ??? all possesse a specific number of spheres, finite and precise !!!! the volumes of this entanglement in the pure serie of uniqueness so imply several interesting road considering my equations and the velocities of rotations and their sense of rot. differenciating the bosons and the fermions. IF THE NUMBER DOES NOT CHANGE FOR THE SERIES OF UNIQUENESS so we can see the quantization more the evolution by polarity between hv and m.

Regards

Michael, I am impressed with your work to the extent that I tried to order your book from Amazon U.K. through you directly (Amazon is out of stock) and the order was rejected with a message that it can't be sent to my U.S. address. What gives? -- are you only allowed to sell your own book in the U.K.? :-) Please send an ordering link to my Email, thomasray1209@comcast.net and I guarantee you a sale, if the shipping cost isn't prohibitive. Otherwise, any chance of Amazon U.S. making it available?

Meantime, on the question of scientific realism, I too have looked at Joy Christian's framework with that question in mind. Rather than applying the Godel incompleteness theorem to the broad set of scientific theories which incorporate physically real terms (which would naively include the theoretical components of Joy's framework, i.e., the prediction of physically real quantum correlations) -- I find that mathematical completeness, as Joy describes, which meets the EPR criterion (every element of the mathematical theory corresponds to every element of the physical measure) also satisfies Godel completeness. I am willing to engage on this issue.

I think it is important to understand that Joy's framework is noncontextual, and not merely an interpretation of observed quantum mechanical phenomena. His logical judgment on the state of quantum correlations is completely closed, exactly as the mathematically complete judgments of relativity in the classical domain. Christian's research, by taking a global (topological) approach to local realism, breaks down the distinction between local and global and prescribes an exact limit to the range of observables, just as relativity does ("all physics is local"), though in an extended universal domain unrestricted by classical mechanics.

As a result, I find that Joy Christian meets Karl Popper's criteria for metaphysical realism (*Realism and the Aim of Science,* Routledge 1983). In turn, I think that your own variety of realism is satisfied, and that Joy Christian's result lies outside the set of constructs that would be subject to Godel incompleteness.

All best,

Tom

    Hi Joy,

    I will frame my point about separate occurrences of S3 and S7 in terms of the classic EPR scenario of correlated spin states between 2 particles, which without special characters I will denote as e^|e_ for electron spin up e^ and electron spin down e_ .

    My point is that this is just quantum mechanics, think quantum field theory. Just as the emission of a photon converts e^ to e_ the emission of a W-boson converts an electron into an neutrino, an up quark into a down quark etc. and there are also inter-family conversion reactions. Such interactions mean that the most general EPR 2 particle scenario in QFT is *not* of the form A^|A_ but A^|B_ where particles A and B can be of any type; A=B is just a special case in QFT.

    The observables to consider in the correlation analysis are both the spin eigenvalues of the rotation group SU(2) - group space S3 - and the particle types which are eigenvalues of some 'particle space'. I use this term in place of particle symmetry group, because grand unified theories assumed that it was going to be a group - a hidden assumption I could have raised in my essay - whereas my work says that it is the quotient group SU(4)/SU(3) isomorphic to S7. So there are 2 sets of observables with quantum correlations {^,_} and {A,B,...} where the values of the first set are the eigenvalues of the rotation group with space S3. In my case the second set contains eigenvalues of SU(4)/SU(3) ~ S7 (after the symmetry has been broken) and the S3 is clearly distinct from this S7.

    Your analysis should also apply to the quantum correlations between the observables in each of the 2 sets {^,_} and {A,B,...} for the most general EPR 2 particle scenario A^|B_ in the Standard Model QFT. Ultimately my question is whether there is a way to use your analysis in reverse to place a constraint on the origin of these observables?

    I.e. some argument of the form

    Parallelised S3 => group space S3 for the observables {^, _}

    Parallelised S7 => 'group space' S7 for the observables {A,B,...}

    A straightforward argument doesn't seem to work, which is why I am asking :-)

    Michael

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    • Post #39

    Hi Michael,

    You have framed your question very clearly. It reminds me of some passionate discussions I had last year on these pages with Ray B. Munroe, who is sadly no longer with us. He was a supporter of my use of 7-sphere, but he also saw things from the particle physics perspective and I had to explain my foundational perspective to him from scratch. Please allow me to do the same here, if not for you, at least for other readers who might to be interested.

    The issue at heart is local causality. This concept has been crystallized by various people over the years, starting with Einstein in his special relativity, and culminating in Bell's analysis of the EPR scenario. Bell used some earlier ideas of von Neumann to frame the concept for any realistic theory, and made it independent of any specific theory of physics, including quantum theory or quantum field theory, and independent even of the specifics of special and general relativities. He thus provided a very general, very reasonable classical, local-realistic framework, which does not depend on the specifics of a given set of observables. It depends only on the yes/no questions the experimentalists may ask and answer. Thus, for example, for the classic EPR-Bohm scenario involving a joint observable AB for observing spin up and spin down at two remote ends of the experiment, he formulated local causality in terms of the following factorizability condition:

    AB(a, b, L) = A(a, L) x B(b, L),

    where A(a, L) is independent of the remote context b as well as the remote result B, and likewise B(b, L) is independent of the remote context a as well as the remote result A. That is it. As you can see, his formulation of local causality only involves the measurement results A = yes/no and B = yes/no, apart from the measurement contexts a and b (such as the directions of the local polarizers), and the common cause L, which is the "hidden" variable or a complete EPR state.

    It should now be clear why the kind of details you have spelt out for more general scenarios involving particle productions etc are irrelevant for the central concerns of local causality. All that matters is how the yes/no answers to relevant questions are correlated, because any experiment in physics can always be reduced to a series of questions that can be answered in a "yes" or "no."

    Nevertheless, let us look at things from your perspective. Let us consider a scenario where an EPR 2-particle state is not of the form P^|P_ (in a variant of your notation) but of the form P^|Q _, where Q =/= P. For you, then, there are two sets of observables with quantum correlations, {^,_} and {P,Q,...}, where the first set contains eigenvalues of the rotation group S3, and the second set contains eigenvalues of SU(4)/SU(3) ~ S7. The question then is: Is Bell's local-realistic analysis applicable to this situation? Yes, absolutely. Is my topological correction to Bell's analysis applicable to this situation? Again, yes, absolutely.

    But here is a difficulty for you: Your set {^, _} is restricted to S3. It is, however, not possible in general to reproduce quantum correlations using my framework within S3 if the corresponding quantum systems have the spectrum of eigenvalues (or measurement results) more general than that of a 2-level system. So, ironically, there is no problem for the exotic set {P,Q,...}, for which the "group space" within your framework is S7, which is the most general available within my framework. It is the set {^, _} that will cause a locality problem for you, because, for a general quantum field, the spectrum of eigenvalues within {^, _} would be highly nontrivial. Within my framework, on the other hand, both {P,Q,...} and {^, _} fall under the same "group space" S7, and so there is no problem.

    So my framework does put the following constraint on the observables: If one restricts to the group space S3, then the only quantum systems for which local causality can be maintained are the 2-level systems. For more general systems S7 is inevitable.

    Best,

    Joy

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    • Post #41

    Dear Michael James Goodband,

    I see a wide gap between you, Joy Christan, Thomas Ray, Lawrence Crowell and others on one hand and likewise qualified experts like Alain Kadin who do not restrict to a mathematical approach on the other hand. Edwin Eugene Klingman seem to be almost the only one who is anchored in both areas.

    May I hope for your readiness to seriously deal with and even eventually accept interdisciplinary arguments and for your efforts to present your most important arguments as easily understandable as possible to those who are laymen in your branch of modern mathematics?

    While I dislike the concept of transfinite cardinality, I agree on that the rational numbers are as countable as are the natural ones. They are said to have the same cardinality aleph_0. So it's amazing to me that the difference between them is as important as you are claiming.

    You wrote: "the particle/anti-particle space being S^0={-1,1} and the space of cyclic waves being S^1". Did you discuss this with Kadin and Klingman?

    I anticipate that you feel hurt by many statements in my essay. May I ask you for on open discussion before prejudice. My position roughly corresponds to that by Detlef D. Spalt who only published in German with one exception (La Continu de l'Analyse Classique dans la Perspective du Résultatisme et du Genésiologisme) and is perhaps unknown to you.

    Regards,

    Eckard

    • [deleted]

    • Post #42

    " ... the particle/anti-particle space being S^0={-1,1} and the space of cyclic waves being S^1". Did you discuss this with Kadin and Klingman?"

    Eckard, that's a very straightforward statement. The 1-dimension S^0 (which Bell-Aspect take as the measure space {-1, 1} or {- oo, oo} ) does not have enough degrees of freedom to accommodate the wave function. Joy recognized the contradiction here, because quantum mechanics cannot survive without a wave function -- and so assigns the function a probabilistic interpretation in the Hilbert space, dragging the notion of nonlocality along. No matter how many ways one slices it, the standard intepretation of quantum mechanics is not coherent without nonlocality.

    By changing to a topological framework, nonlocality is obviated.

    Tom

    Thanks Tom. I'm still having problems with Amazon not displaying the correct stock and shipping settings. Just in case it takes a while, I'm setting up the option of making Agent Physics available from my website http://www.mjgoodband.co.uk at the same shipping rates as Amazon. This may take a day or two (will update). In the meantime there's more about Agent Physics on http://www.agentphysics.org

    I think your comments pointing out that Christian's framework "breaks down the distinction between local and global ... in an extended universal domain unrestricted by classical mechanics" points at the core of the issue. In conceptual terms, I see Joy's analysis in terms of initial and final conditions about observations and what correlations there can be between them. However, one of the consequences of transcending classical mechanics is that there is inevitably no discussion of dynamics, and so there is no discussion of *how* these conditions are met. I note that terms like 'entanglement' are implicitly about dynamics.

    The point about Gödel's incompleteness theorem is strictly in his original context, where the local-global structure issue appears to arise in terms of discrete and continuous valued arithmetic systems. The collection of statements expressed within some system of integer arithmetic could be viewed as a linked network of nodes spread out in a space, where the links are steps of logical deduction. In conceptual terms, Gödel proved that the discrete character of integer arithmetic is such that there can exist closed loops of nodes in this network which are stated in the same terms as the axioms of the mathematical system, but cannot be reached from the axioms. However, Gödel's proof is explicitly dependent upon the discrete character of numbers *and* number-theoretic functions over the integers. Switch from discrete integers to the continuous reals and Gödel's incompleteness proof no longer holds in this context, almost certainly because of the far richer structure of functions over the reals. This could be viewed in terms of the 'global' structure of functions over the reals being richer than the 'local' structure of functions over the integers, such that the 'global' case doesn't suffer the incompleteness of the 'local'. Conceptually this is because it can fill in the gaps between the discrete nodes of the network in the integer case. This switch from discrete terms counting the numbers of objects in classical physics to continuous real-number description of the same objects in a scientific theory in order to escape the 'local' restriction of Gödel's incompleteness is a far more generic point in science that applies beyond particle physics, as is discussed in http://www.mjgoodband.co.uk/papers/Godel-science-theory.pdf (http://vixra.org/abs/1208.0010).

    In general conceptual terms, I see Joy's functional analysis showing that 'global' functional structure can account for observable correlations in a way that 'local' functional structure cannot. But this still leaves the question, where's the physics? By this we generally mean the dynamics, which means locally tracking the causation as we do in classical mechanics. I show that the above switch from discrete terms to continuous terms gives all the features of Quantum Theory. However, a consequence of this switch appears to be that the underlying 'global' functional structure appears as non-local identity in the dynamics of the quantum field terms (wave-function). The descriptive issues of QT appear to arise in resolving the underlying 'global' functional structure back to the 'local' terms of strictly countable discrete particles.

    The philosophical point is that realism in terms of observational predictions is retained, but at the expense of the descriptive realism of the dynamics being compromised.

    Best,

    Michael

    Hi Joy,

    Thanks. I was getting the impression that the functional spaces of your analysis wasn't going to match up with the group spaces and particle symmetry spaces of particle physics. Although such a functional analysis appears non-contextual, the particle physics perspective spots that local causation over observables has the context of special relativity (SR). This brings with it features that look like they should be more than just coincidence, as the spinor representation of the Poincare group of SR is SU(2)*SU(2) where the group space of SU(2) is S3, and the spin eigenvalues form an S0 space. This structure is linked to local causation of fermionic objects in SR, and so forms the particle physics context for the analysis of correlations between observables. From the particle physics side, it is very hard to get past the idea that this isn't of significance - even if it really is irrelevant!

    Best,

    Michael

    • [deleted]

    • Post #45

    Dang it -- I messed up cutting and pasting. I will repost correctly here, and hope I can get the last version deleted. Sorry.

    Michael,

    I am so grateful -- as I expect Joy is as well -- to be able to have meaningful dialogue on the real issues. For so long, and for Joy many years longer than I, we've been forced to respond to straw man arguments. Very debilitating and demoralizing.

    One of those persistent straw men describes Joy's model as algebraic (though one has to be innocent of what "geometric algebra" really means, to think that way), when of course a topological framework can't be other than analytical. The detractor then proceeds to identify a nonexistent "algebraic error" and dismiss the whole argument.

    Anyway:

    I think it fruitful to approach the subject the way you're doing, because the issues do go deep into FOM as well as physics -- and actually, as you imply, have to do so -- in order to reconcile local discrete measures with globally continuous functions.

    Key to the structure is orientability, that only a topological model can supply. I really only became aware of this about a year ago -- when I read a 30 year old unpublished paper by the eminent computer scientist Leslie Lamport titled "Buridan's Principle." His analysis of the Stern-Gerlach apparatus convinced me that the principle ("A discrete decision based upon an input having a continuous range of values cannot be made within a bounded length of time") really does generalize, as a physical law, to all measurement functions continuous from an initial condition. I suggested to him that the paper really needed to be published, and fortunately, the medium I suggested -- Foundations of Physics -- accepted and published it in the April 2012 issue.

    I've filled 3 notebooks with arguments and equations in the last year and half, and I'm itching to get it into publishable form -- back in 2 March I wrote " ... the continuous range of measurement results are recorded -- not on unit S^0 as Bell assumed by the functions A(a,l) = 1 or - 1, but on S^1, a unit 2-sphere. As Joy Christian explains, 'After all, no one has ever observed a 'click' in an experiment other than about some experimental direction a. With this simple change in the function A now takes on values in a topological 2-sphere, not the real line, thereby correctly representing the EPR elements of reality. The values of the spin components are still 1 or - 1, but they now reside on the surface of a unit ball.'" Orientability matters. It matters, though, over the whole range of parallelizable spheres, which are simply connected and therefore accommodate the flatness condition.

    Like you, I have tended to translate Joy's research into my own familiar terms of complex analysis, information theory and number theory. I have tried not to do that, though without complete success. In any case, we bump up against your conclusion: "The philosophical point is that realism in terms of observational predictions is retained, but at the expense of the descriptive realism of the dynamics being compromised." And that is why, as I think you'll see is obvious, that I apply the criterion of Godel completeness rather than the incompleteness theorem. It meets Popper falsifiability, in the context of Tarski correspondence theory of truth, and it satisfies metaphysical realism. In other words, we recover the dynamics in a continuous function model of argument and value -- I characterize Joy's correlation result, E(a,b) = - a.b as the input argument to a continuous range of values, which generalize Buridan's Principle to the topological limit.

    I hope you get a chance to visit my essay site, where some of these same issues are discussed in a different way.

    All best,

    Tom

    (P.S. I trust that you got my email reply with my mailing address. Looking forward to reading your book!)

    • [deleted]

    • Post #46

    Fixing the link (hopefully):

    Leslie Lamport

    http://research.microsoft.com/enus/um/people/lamport/pubs/pubs.html#buridan

    Hi Michael,

    If I understand your comments correctly, here is what I think is your worry:

    What I have dealt with in my work is the issue of no-signalling non-locality of the orthodox quantum theory. I have used Bell's local-realistic framework which carefully separates this type of non-locality out from a possible signalling non-locality that would actually violate special-relativistic causality (as is well known, no-signalling non-locality does not). My analysis deals with both types of non-localities in a clear-cut manner, at least at a formal level. However, since I am using functional spaces like S3 and S7 in the context that is unusual from the particle physics perspective, it is unclear whether this would not lead to some signalling-type causality violations when my framework is eventually turned into a proper theory.

    This is a justified concern. Eventually my framework will have to be properly relativized, or at least made compatible with some representation of the Poincare group. Fortunately there exists a mathematical framework for doing this. It is an extension of the algebra I have used in my work, known as the Spacetime Algebra. At the moment, however, relativizing my framework is not my primary concern. All I can say at the moment is that I think it can be done. We shall see.

    Best,

    Joy

    Hi Michael,

    You have raised a key question: "...where's the physics? By this we generally mean the dynamics, which means locally tracking the causation as we do in classical mechanics."

    You have correctly recognized that my framework is entirely kinematical as it stands. A fully local-realistic theory based on it would inevitably have to postulate dynamics, and this dynamics must match with that of quantum theory (if not quantum gravity). My latest mini-grant from FQXi is precisely for investigating this issue of dynamics. I have some preliminary ideas about this, but I am not yet ready to discuss them in public.

    Best,

    Joy

    Hi Joy and Tom,

    I too am grateful to you for engaging in meaningful discussion. I was previously unaware of Joy's work (and Buridan's principle ) and your comments have advanced my thinking to the point where I am certain that the key issue really is a mathematics description problem in trying "to reconcile local discrete measures with globally continuous functions".

    In the spirit of the essay contest of questioning assumptions, I realised I have been making an assumption about Joy's work. This is partly because the initial point of comparison was the dependence on the 4 spheres S0, S1, S3, S7. In my case, these are physical spaces in a classical metric field theory where the Relativity meta-principle - make no preference - selects them all, and the unification principle gives only one possible unification which yields these spaces (STUFT). The fact that the dimensionally reduced version of this KKT derives the Standard Model Lagrangian with the correct electroweak vacuum (and Weinberg angle) and spectrum of 12 fermionic particle-like objects in classical physics is a nice feature (and the coupling constants, including the Higgs scalar coupling which predicted the classical Higgs boson mass to be 123GeV). Then comes the *real issue*, what is Quantum Theory all about?

    I think this is the real point of comparison of my work (primarily in Agent Physics but also as presented in Science Theories) with Joy's, where the QT context for Bell's analysis has distracted me from Joy's functional analysis of hidden variable theories being more general than *just* QT. Bell's analysis started from the existence of QT and asked whether there exist a hidden variable theory that can account for the same correlations between observables as QT. However, a functional analysis whose only conditions are local causation and correlations between observables can surely be applied to any assumption of a hidden variable theory in science (ie. without the pre-condition that is replacing QT)?

    The reason for considering this possibility is that my physics-based analysis of numerous physical systems identifies a recurring feature of a self-consistent (causally closed) dynamic state residing on the giant connected component of some physical network. Any physically-real theory of these systems can be proven to be incomplete because of the discrete character of the dynamics of the network - this specifically includes the classical physics of particles, as in my essay. It seems to only make sense for the possible undecidable proposition in the physically-real theory to describe a collective property of the dynamic state residing on the giant connected component. This can potentially give a description problem in physically-real terms, because the inputs to the network cause discrete changes to propagate through the giant network component, with its undecidable feature, to the outputs. Encountering a network state with undecidable properties would surely have some effect on the outputs, such as altering the correlations between the outputs observed?

    Joy's functional analysis of correlations between observables in a non-relativistic context would seem to be wholly appropriate to this situation. The combination of my work and Joy's functional analysis leads me to the proposition: the presence of the undecidable property on the core network component causes correlations between the network outputs that cannot be accounted for in a discrete theory in physically-real terms. Assuming that the correlations can be accounted for if only we knew some extra missing terms constitutes an assumption of a hidden variable theory. The follow on from the above proposition is that the richer functional structure of continuous functions can account for the correlations in output, where such terms do not directly correspond to the inherently discrete physical components of the network system and so are non-physically-real terms (like the wave-function of QT).

    Extending the functional analysis to this scenario could potentially provide a mathematical proof (or disproof) of my proposition that the presence of an undecidable feature on a discrete network system is the *cause* of the correlations that cannot be accounted for by a discrete hidden variable theory. I show that the required network conditions can occur in biology, psychology and economics ... with the prediction following on from this proposition that there will exist correlations between observables in these system which cannot be accounted for by a physically-real scientific theory. These disciplines implicitly make the assumption that there will exist a hidden variable theory that will account for all experimental observations. It seems to me that Joy's work provides the basis for the construction of experimental tests of these assumptions throughout science.

    Best

    Michael

    • [deleted]

    • Post #50

    Dear Michael:

    The conclusion of your paper that QM is not a fundamental theory is vindicated in my paper - " From Absurd to Elegant Universe". My paper also provides evidence to what is fundamental universal reality and how to explain the inner workings of quantum mechanics (including wave-particle duality) and resolve its paradoxes.

    I would greatly appreciate your comments on my paper.

    Best of Luck & Regards

    Avtar Singh

    • [deleted]

    • Post #51

    CORRECTION - Reposting the above under my name:

    Dear Michael:

    The conclusion of your paper that QM is not a fundamental theory is vindicated in my paper - " From Absurd to Elegant Universe". My paper also provides evidence to what is fundamental universal reality and how to explain the inner workings of quantum mechanics (including wave-particle duality) and resolve its paradoxes.

    I would greatly appreciate your comments on my paper.

    Best of Luck & Regards

    Avtar Singh

      their heart is not even sincere and pure.

      this world does not turn correctly just due to these persons of bad.In fact we see only with our heart, the essential is invisible for eyes....don't lie about my faith.you do not even imagine my universal faith. I love Jesus Christ ok.

      A real bad band in fact you are .like what , the habit does not make the monk.

      You can lie for several but not for the real universalists understanding the sciences and its determinism, pure and simple.

      you do not imrpove and your mathematical language is weak !

      The team is knew since the begining. ahahah until soon at New york or pay people to kill me.