Topological Solitons of Ellipsoid Field - Particle Menagerie Correspondence by Jarek Duda

Dear Jarek,

Of course mathematics is a good tool for describing of phenomena with the help of formulas. But the problem is with the real models of particles. When the model is wrong mathematics can not help. See substantial model of electron in § 14 of the book: The physical theories and infinite nesting of matter. Perm, 2009-2012, 858 p. ISBN 978-5-9901951-1-0. By the way the problem of electron spin is explained in the book.

Sergey Fedosin

Dear Sergey,

I don't understand your point - if you are implying that my model is wrong, I would be really grateful if you point me some discrepancy with the reality?

Maxwell's equations allow for any charge, while we know that they appear only in integer multiplicities of elementary charge - we need to reformulate/improve Maxwell's equations to have this quantization already deeply written - it was done by prof. Faber: http://iopscience.iop.org/1742-6596/361/1/012022

Now charges can appear only in portions: particles (and have mass) ... but only electron-like.

What I propose is its simple expansion to get all particles as we know - and I'm open to other such expansions.

Jarek

Dear Jarek,

In the Theory of Infinite Hierarchical Nesting of Matter (my Essay) neutron stars at star level of matter are analogue of nucleons at particle level of matter. In a neutron star a lot of protons and electrons. But for the star level of matter there is stellar charge as a maximum charge of a star, see Stellar constants . In the average we can say that charge of star objects composed of neutron star must be integer in units of stellar charge. But in reality the charge of one star is never equal to charge of another star, the coincidence has small probability. The same is for the charge of a proton which consists of charges of numerous particles in substance of the proton. So I want say that elementary charge of electron, proton and other particle is approximation, in reality the particles have somewhat different charges.

Sergey Fedosin

But the particles have charge being integer multiplicity of elementary charge (or 1/3) - this quantization is the most essential fact to understand particles. Quantization itself makes charges need to come in portions - became particles.

Before nesting further particles in electron, start with improving electromagnetism to have quantization written (e.g. like prof. Faber) ...

Hi Jarek,

Just read and loved your essay "... there are three basic families of soltions, simplest charge will topologically need to have spin, ... While dynamics of rotations of the original axis will correspond to electromagnetic interaction ... the additional perpendicular rotation corresponds to quantum phase, enforced by the soliton to constantly rotate as for de Broglie's clock of particle."

I liked your drawings and if you ever consider trying to animate them in real time, please send me a note.

You can see some examples of my animations in the links at my essay #1306.

Regards, Ed

Hi Ed,

Thanks for the comforting comment, especially that I was counting on a real discussion, while I mostly got posts from people seeming not even to look at the essay but only wanting to advertise own ... and mostly interested only at fighting with special relativity ...

What you call the need of animations, I would call the need for numerical simulations - I would like to work on it as soon I will have some time, but it is difficult question how to precisely choose both kinetic and potential term of the Lagrangian.

I have looked at your paper and nice animation. As you are interested at classical atomic models, you should look at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-fall_atomic_model

You want to see particles as vortices - seems similar to what I'm writing, but standard vortices don't enforce quantization e.g. of the charge - for that you need to use topological vortices/solitons, like Abrikosov's.

Regards,

Jarek

Dear Jarek,

This is a fascinating paper; the ideas involved are very pleasing aesthetically. It's very different from my own ideas about fundamental physics, but I wouldn't be at all disappointed if your ideas turned out to be right. A few remarks and questions.

1. Do Hopf fibrations play any role here? Adding an S^1 degree of freedom to S^2 immediately suggests this.

2. Have you looked at the essays by Torsten Asselmeyer-Maluga and Jerzy Krol? They discuss another (also aesthetically pleasing) "pure manifold" idea about fundamental physics: exotic smoothness structures.

3. Given your information theory background, you might find my essay interesting, although as I said, the ideas are much different.

Thanks for the great read! Take care,

Ben Dribus

Dear Ben,

Thank you for your comments. I have looked at your brave essay about rejecting most of assumptions and starting with new ones. Personally I prefer approach of making small steps - basing and comparing to known physics, and really deeply understanding their consequences.

For example we know that electromagnetism is generally right, but it disagrees with nature by allowing for any charges, while the nature allows only for integer multiplicities of elementary charge - correcting/reformulating electromagnetism to have included this fundamental principle was made by prof. Faber in natural way - make that Gaussian law counts topological charge (Hopf number). This improvement itself makes charges appear in portions - became particles. But there is something missing - some expansion is needed, so I've started with experimenting with adding single dof - and using just kind of anisotropic stress tensor seems to fit perfectly to recreate our particle menagerie and their dynamics...

About e.g. Hopf fibrations, prof. Faber uses quaternions in his representation and told me he experimented with octonions. I just assume a simple field and try to understand consequences to topological structures it can create and their dynamics.

I've looked at Torsten Asselmeyer-Maluga and Jerzy Krol essays, but similarly to yours, I see them too abstract - there is a lot of a general talk these days, but what we need to fight with the orthodox physics, is a concrete working microscopic model which can complement the Standard Model.

Thanks,

Jarek

ps. I see causality is one of your rejected assumptions - there is extremely powerful Walborn's version of delayed quantum erasure you might be interested ...

After studying about 250 essays in this contest, I realize now, how can I assess the level of each submitted work. Accordingly, I rated some essays, including yours.

Cood luck.

Sergey Fedosin

Please feel free to ask question if you don't understand something. I would be also greatful for remarks related to my essay (in opposite to your previous one).

Jarek

Dear Ben,

About causality, what I believe in is the Lagrangian mechanics we use from QFT to GRT. It gives very clear time symmetric picture, for example through action optimization formulation: the present is the equilibrium between past and future - both are equally important.

We have natural intuition of time asymmetry, there is no doubt in the 2nd law, but the fundamental equations are time/CPT symmetric. It means the asymmetry is a property of the specific solution we live in: relatively close to Big Bang having everything in one place - low entropy and so creating entropy gradient. It also started reason-result chain leading to our intuition.

Much better controlled situation (than precognition) to search for this symmetry is e.g. quantum erasure, especially in configuration we can later control the earlier outcome I've linked.

And I'm not saying that your approach is wrong, but that you should make it more predictive for comparison with the reality.

Thanks,

Jarek

ps. Here is great thought experiment to het intuition about this time-symmetry: GRT doesn't forbid nonorientable spacetime: with time-reversing loop ...

If you do not understand why your rating dropped down. As I found ratings in the contest are calculated in the next way. Suppose your rating is [math]R_1 [/math] and [math]N_1 [/math] was the quantity of people which gave you ratings. Then you have [math]S_1=R_1 N_1 [/math] of points. After it anyone give you [math]dS [/math] of points so you have [math]S_2=S_1+ dS [/math] of points and [math]N_2=N_1+1 [/math] is the common quantity of the people which gave you ratings. At the same time you will have [math]S_2=R_2 N_2 [/math] of points. From here, if you want to be R2 > R1 there must be: [math]S_2/ N_2>S_1/ N_1 [/math] or [math] (S_1+ dS) / (N_1+1) >S_1/ N_1 [/math] or [math] dS >S_1/ N_1 =R_1[/math] In other words if you want to increase rating of anyone you must give him more points [math]dS [/math] then the participant`s rating [math]R_1 [/math] was at the moment you rated him. From here it is seen that in the contest are special rules for ratings. And from here there are misunderstanding of some participants what is happened with their ratings. Moreover since community ratings are hided some participants do not sure how increase ratings of others and gives them maximum 10 points. But in the case the scale from 1 to 10 of points do not work, and some essays are overestimated and some essays are drop down. In my opinion it is a bad problem with this Contest rating process. I hope the FQXI community will change the rating process.

Sergey Fedosin

Sergey,

I'm not here ... I'm not doing science for 0-10 score, but to find a better understanding. I'm here for discussion - counting e.g. for a single constructing counter-argument to my reflections ...

Dear Jarek,

You're absolutely right... I will certainly have to connect with what's already established for it to ultimately be good for anything. I've been thinking about this in isolation (not self-imposed, you understand!) for only about 3 years, though, so I do ask for a bit of a honeymoon!

Thanks for the link... I personally view these things as indications of possible shortcomings in GR, but I may be oversimplifying. Take care,

Ben

Dear Ben,

I emphasized that this is only a thought experiment to really feel the time symmetry deeply written not only in GRT, but in all Lagranian mechanics we use, like QFT. Personally I'm also far from being convinced to GRT - it's extremely controversial, while its simple approximation: gravitomagnetism is enough to explain all we can measure and naturally unifies with electromagnetism...

So good luck and please let me know if you would like to switch to solitons,

Jarek

Dear Jarek

Congratulations for your essay - I am proud that I alerted you to this fqxi contest. While I only understand it qualitatively, I can see that you have excellent grasp of your ideas and have presented them consistently in the text, and beautifully in the illustrations.

As I mentioned in our previous discussions, I agree with your idea about a particle as a soliton pushing its surrounding wave field ahead of it. Within such particles and around them there is an exquisite order due to rotation of spin axis as you have shown in your Figure 4. While your treatment concentrates on particles and is on a very sophisticated theoretical level, I have described such a way of thinking (classical spinning magnetic-like nodes creating topological fields; a particle passing from one slit while its field goes through both slits; the neutrino as a soliton discontinuity in the field, etc.) in my qualitative 2005 Beautiful Universe Theory upon which I based my fqxi essay Fix Physics! .

I cannot prove it or show it in detail, but I feel that your concepts reflect an even deeper order in Nature, causal and linear at the tiniest levelsand in the vacuum itself. "Random vacuum fluctuations and virtual particles" may one day disappear from the lexicon of physics to be replaced by the sort of simple realistic mechanical and topological effects we both describe in different ways.

By the way your kaon/hyperon twisted loop of Fig. 6 resembles the shape of the electron orbits in Kenneth Snelson's fqxi essay. Perhaps you can kindly comment on his idea - he is a famous sculptor and the inventor of tensegrity (balance through compression/tension in a configuration), and has interesting ideas about atomic structure. He is 85 and has had little encouragement from mainstream quantum theorists.

Finally please allow me to attach a figure showing a test I proposed for the idea that the electron 'pushes' its field in the double slit experiment as in Couder's video. If the double slits are each smaller than the particle in size so that it cannot pass, yet interference of its wave field still occurs because the wave-field can pass through.

I wish you all success.

VladimirAttachment #1: 5_Particledoubleslit_.jpeg

Dear Jarek

Excuse me for throwing in some yeast after the bread is long since baked! I have only recently read your essay. It is thought-provoking and in a peculiar way both visionary and basic. Most interesting. And - yes! - intuitively very attractive.

I like the way you show a seemingly non-violent way to unite the theories of micro- and macro cosmos. I also like the way you go back to basic, not least to de Broigle, whose particle-wave duality was far more direkt than it (too soon?) became in the hands of Schrödinger, Heisenberg and Bohr.

This far I have no clever questions to ask, but for sure I look forward to read your other publications on this subject. Until then, thank you for good reading!

Best regards

Inger Stjernqvist

Dear Inger,

Thank you for the comforting comment. I deeply believe we should try to get below abstract models of QFT - search for internal structure and dynamics of particles: localized constructs of the field (solitons). Just repairing Maxwell's equations such that Gauss law no longer allows for any real charge, but only integer multiplicities of elementary ones as in the nature - e.g. by making that Gauss law counts topological charge like in Faber's approach. These elementary charges already became primitive electron models - now we need to expand the model to get all the particles and ellipsoid field is not only the only such expansion I could find, but surprisingly, while being extremely simple, it seems already qualitatively extremely promising - giving intuitive answers to many fundamental problems of physics ... as the right model should do.

However, while finding by simulations the proper form and constants of both potential and kinetic term of Lagrangian requires huge amount of work, it seems nobody is interested in understanding internal structure and dynamics of particles. And so I have to leave it for now, I'm starting information theory postdoc. But I would always gladly discuss about soliton particle model approaches.

Best regards,

Jarek Duda

http://th.if.uj.edu.pl/~dudaj/