Rethinking the Formal Methodology (I): Wave-Vortex Essence of the Substance by George Kirakosyan

To Frank

1) The terminology, that we using, is imperfect actually. What we can do? We are going from known to unknown areas (exactly, which we believe as known to us). Thus, we trying bringing with us our usual old concepts, and to use these somewhat on new subjects, whereas, it is necessary to establish and use new concepts, which are a big technical problem first. Thus, it is natural some disagreements on this matter. For example, there isn not common and strong definition on =elementary particle= even, but we using it, hoping that everybody will understood it in right meaning! (i.e. as we understood it!)

2) You says, =the standing wave is a stationary= I call it =pseudo static=. The essence easy to see just from animation of wave interference (I hope you will find it in I-net. The field oscillated in the same place, without propagation. It is the localized particle or elm particle, which has its components - main and secondary maximums, i.e. mass & charges)

3) You would like to involve me in gravity problem, Thank you; it is very interesting theme for me. Now I can say only that I am sharing your approach about electromagnetic nature of gravity, hoping I can complete mine work on the subject and publish it.

George

As per your request on my blog of 29 Aug, my comments on your essay would be as follows:

1 Your opening sentence is the start point, only the issue is not philosophical, but physical. We are part of a physical reality. The evolution of sensory systems enables us (and other organisms) to detect it. So, within that confine, the physical question is, what constitutes this and why does it alter.

2 Any explanation which attributes any form of sensing (the usual form referred to is observation) with having an impact on physical reality, &/or deems it to have some form of 'indefiniteness', and/or more than one physical form at a time, is flawed, because that is contradictory to how physical reality occurs. Furthermore, only that which constitutes the immediate preceding existent reality (whatever that is-see below), and of that, only that which is spatially immediately adjacent, can be a cause of the next existent state/reality. Physically, there can be no 'jumping' in the sequence, nor can one physical state affect another directly, unless it is spatially adjacent. So you are right to question QM. Another simple question, for example is: what is the physical reality that corresponds to wave? And at which particular point is it reality (see below, re 'spin'), ie physically existent. Because 'wave' is a composite, a sequence, of physically existent states.

3 Any representational device must have a corresponding physical existence. The issue with one particular example you alight on is not 'point like', as such. But what this can mean, given the nature of physical reality. There must be a 'point like' physical state, ie that which physically exists as at any given point in time. Otherwise there is no physical existence. There must be something, ie a definitive and discrete physical state. The issue is, what is it? It cannot be just any given elementary component (of whatever type), as such, because there is alteration. So it must be associated with the state(s) of that, as at any given point in time. For example, any given elementary component of physical reality is not 'still', there is alteration(s). An elementary component 'spins', for example. So what constitutes reality in this case? Half a spin, a whole spin? The answer must be, whatever constitutes a difference from the previous existent state, because there can only be one state at a time.

4 That is all 'easy' to say. The difficult part is to establish what is occurring. That is beyond me, but I feel that whilst you are heading in the right direction, I am not altogether sure you have got to the bottom of it.

Paul

To Paul,

Thanks for response and for support with some of mine approaches.

I am explaining some of your kindly comments due to in the work are not presented most of initial definitions (I think, it may be justified technically).

I have just believed that there should be common view on the basic things, for example, on what we mean under term of ,,physical reality,, , ,,material point,, etc. Unfortunately, the modern physics is far from his mother science = philosophy. It ignores such ,,trifles,, as the ordinary logic, methodological principles as well as the initial definitions. We have that which we have now in result = the formal/abstract actions and political declarations, that offered to us as ,,Leading science,,! I think the situation is very dramatic actually; however, it has also the positive aspect. I mean, the physics have definitly reached to a wall and every serious thinker realizes it. So, the deeper revision just is inevitable!

Thanks for response and for support with some of mine approaches.

I am explaining some of your kindly comments due to in the work are not presented most of initial definitions (I think, it may be justified technically).

I have just believed that there should be common view on the basic things, for example, on what we mean under term of "physical reality", "material point" etc. Unfortunately, the modern physics is far from his mother science - philosophy. It ignores such "trifles" as the ordinary logic, methodological principles as well as the initial definitions. We have that which we have now in result - the formal/abstract actions and political declarations, that offered to us as a "Leading science"! I think the situation is very dramatic actually; however, it has also the positive aspect. I mean, the physics have definitly reached to a wall and every serious thinker realizes it. So, the deeper revision just is inevitable!

George

Indeed so. The basic logic is very easy to discern (especially if one does not have all the 'baggage'). But then it gets more difficult(!), ie just what can constitute a pysically existent state, which is my phrase to denote that which exists as at any given point in time. We know it is a sequence, because 'it' exists and there is alteration, but what constitutes the 'it'. While that can be generically established (probably with more knowledge), I doubt if we would ever be able to detect it in any given circumstance, because of the speed at which alteration occurs, and the complexity involved in any given circumstance. That is, it is probably impossible to differentiate physical reality to the point where we could defined what occurred as at a point in time, ie the point where there no form of alteration occurred. But that inability should not result in the ditching/overriding of the principles which define how physical reality occurs.

Paul

Your judgment is nice! I would like only remembering you about ,,hiding parameters,, (Einstein, Rosen etc.) We must care that there are natural limits for ours measuring/controlling capability (due to any measuring process assumes transformation some of minimal quantity of energy restricted by nature. The same for sizes) Thus, the ,,material point,, and ,,exactly location,, become here the idealized categories. We just must be ready that in the ,,border,, we will lose any possibility to make real experiments. What we can do then? I suggest building the mental descriptions, by using imaginary objects/actions and causal=logical universal laws (on example of process absorption/radiation of photons in mine work). We will believe that ours models are right (somewhat) if ours conclusions will corresponding with reality (for example, I get the right energy values and closely action times). Moreover, if this system becomes universal and it works in other cases as well (on elementary particles description etc), then we can say that we have understood what is going on actually.

Dear George,

Thanks for your essay, I agree fully with the part 1. Here is a reference about spin of electron in the book The physical theories and infinite nesting of matter. Perm, 2009-2012, 858 p. ISBN 978-5-9901951-1-0. I red your article in vixra.org and agree that < interpretation clarifies the physical meaning of de Broglies wave as Doppler Effect arising from movement of Comptons standing wave (elementary particle).> The same is in my book Fizika i filosofiia podobiia ot preonov do metagalaktik. Perm, 1999, 544 pages. ISBN 5-8131-0012-1. You can see also my description of photon model in Cosmic Red Shift, Microwave Background, and New Particles. Galilean Electrodynamics, Spring 2012, Vol. 23, Special Issues No. 1, P. 3 - 13.

Sergey Fedosin

Dear Sergey!

Thank you for Responce.

I have open yours articles in VIXRA and I find these intrseting for me.

I fill that we are on the same way. (There are some peuple thinking on the same direction). I will read your works slowly as per find time.

Ya oceniwayu vash trud. Unfortunatelly we are in minority. I hope we will continue talks after.

Best whishes

Hi George,

I found interesting your Essay. I am going to give you an high score.

Cheers,

Ch.

Hi Dr. Corda. Fundamental inertial and gravitational equivalency and balancing fundamentally demonstrates F=ma as well. What are your thoughts on this please?My essay (in this contest) proves this.

http://www.polit.ru/news/2012/10/01/fundamentalphysicsprize/

Dear Gevork

Ya postavil tebe 10 ballov

Hi George,

Just read and enjoyed your essay. Modelling the properties of fundamental particles leads to much better understanding and insights into how they work. Thank you for your ref, "Modeling the Electron as a Stable Quantum Wave-Vortex", I also enjoyed that.

Regards and I hope you get a chance to look at my animated models at essay #1306, and I would appreciate any comments.

Ed

Dorogoy Yury!

Chto ya delal be bez Vas! Spasibo za informaciu. Izuchayu site.

After studying about 250 essays in this contest, I realize now, how can I assess the level of each submitted work. Accordingly, I rated some essays, including yours.

Cood luck.

Sergey Fedosin

Spasibo!

Jelayu udachi!

George

Thanks for your comment. At the risk of appearing pedantic, and as I tried to convey to Sergey recently, the point is not so much "experiment, logic and quantitative analyze", as such, as this is obvious. It is about what that can be, given our existential circumstance. Reality is manifest, so we are trapped in a loop. But it is manifest independently of the mechanism whereby we know of it, so we can attain objectivity within that loop. And can know of nothing outwith that loop.

The questions then become, given that confine, a) how can reality occur (what must be its essential properties), b) what is the process of detection. Answers, at the generic level, reveal the 'rules of the game'. Reality exists, it has definite form, it is not an abstract concept, and conceptualisations of it need to correspond with it, as manifest, not on the basis of assertion/ belief.

Paul

Yes, dear Paul.

We have defining our = rules of game= i.e. we have building same system of study, and attempting to include into it the known facts/events. The appeasement of our system we defining by its workability, i.e. how many facts and results may be explained in frame of our system (because there is no other criterion of significance). The whole series of results and new opportunities are presented in mine work. Did you read it to end (44 pages)?

Or, did you find any of concretely results (as deduced foundational numbers) in any of work? If yes, kindly let me known.

Regards

If you do not understand why your rating dropped down. As I found ratings in the contest are calculated in the next way. Suppose your rating is [math]R_1 [/math] and [math]N_1 [/math] was the quantity of people which gave you ratings. Then you have [math]S_1=R_1 N_1 [/math] of points. After it anyone give you [math]dS [/math] of points so you have [math]S_2=S_1+ dS [/math] of points and [math]N_2=N_1+1 [/math] is the common quantity of the people which gave you ratings. At the same time you will have [math]S_2=R_2 N_2 [/math] of points. From here, if you want to be R2 > R1 there must be: [math]S_2/ N_2>S_1/ N_1 [/math] or [math] (S_1+ dS) / (N_1+1) >S_1/ N_1 [/math] or [math] dS >S_1/ N_1 =R_1[/math] In other words if you want to increase rating of anyone you must give him more points [math]dS [/math] then the participant`s rating [math]R_1 [/math] was at the moment you rated him. From here it is seen that in the contest are special rules for ratings. And from here there are misunderstanding of some participants what is happened with their ratings. Moreover since community ratings are hided some participants do not sure how increase ratings of others and gives them maximum 10 points. But in the case the scale from 1 to 10 of points do not work, and some essays are overestimated and some essays are drop down. In my opinion it is a bad problem with this Contest rating process. I hope the FQXI community will change the rating process.

Sergey Fedosin