It From Bit or Bit From It? by Kimmo Rouvari

Hi Kimmo,

I like the use of the word curtain and the fact you talk about observation. You may (or may not be) interested in my essay which also looks at observation at and beyond event horizons. We may have some common ground?

I think you have paid good attention to the essay guidelines in your different sections - making it very relevant.

Best wishes,

Antony

Kimmo,

If information and particles are the same, what is the role of consciousness. That would mean that humans are information and atoms.

Jim

Dear Kimmo

Your image of a ripped curtain behind which the truth of a new physics is revealed is wonderful (even Hitchcock used it in his movie "Torn Curtain" also involving pohysics!). In my fqxi essay I used the image of a Cloud to show how we make mistakes in observing reality and making theories about it.

Your essay is based on your interesting ToEbi which I also looked at in vixra. Your theory has some interesting similarities to my own 2005 Beautiful Universe Theory also found here where the basis is the exchange of angular momentum in an ether lattice. There are differences too, because there is no 'collision' in my model. In either case I know how difficult it is to convince mainline physicists to start thinking along new lines. I wish you the best of luck

Vladimir

Kimmo,

If given the time and the wits to evaluate over 120 more entries, I have a month to try. My seemingly whimsical title, "It's good to be the king," is serious about our subject.

Jim

Dear Kimmo. Hello Apologies if this does not apply to you. I have read and rated your essay and about 50 others. If you have not read, or did not rate my essay The Cloud of Unknowing please consider doing so. With best wishes.

Vladimir

Dear Kimmo Rouvari ,

Thanks for your nice essay, well done

I enjoy reading it and rate it accordingly

In order to really know the answer we have to take a look at behind the curtain. What curtain? And what should we see? The curtain is current understanding and knowledge in particle physics and behind the curtain lays bare naked truth of the nature. We are ready to rip off the curtain.

what is the main idea to rip off the curtain? to understand information?

and from a different point view, my essay may interest you

Bit: from Breaking symmetry of it

Hope you enjoy it

Regards,

Xiong

Kimmo,

I truly enjoyed your insight and analogies. I most certainly agree, it is time to rip off the curtains and dig deeper. Although you have a different approach than I do, I found your essay inspiring and most worthy of merit.

I wish you the best of luck.

Regards,

Manuel

Dear Kimmo,

I have down loaded your essay and soon post my comments on it. Meanwhile, please, go through my essay and post your comments.

Regards and good luck in the contest,

Sreenath BN.

http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/1827

Dear Kimmo Rouvari,

In your brief article you have clearly stated what you want to say regarding the current topic of the essay, that is, It from Bit or Bit from It. You have, through your rigorous logical argument established the relationship between It and Bit by saying ultimately that "It is Bit and Bit is It". This is also the conclusion reached by me by different arguments when I say "Bit comes from It but mind can know of It only through Bit". This is also what is told by you when you say "increase in information correspondingly increases the complexity of reality.

Thanks for your elegantly argued article and hence I would like to rate it with maximum score. Please also go through my essay (http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/1827) and express your comments on it in my thread.

Best wishes,

Sreenath

Dear Kimmo,

Thanks for your essay and I think that we are almost rush towards the same directions. I can quote from your last lines: "From now on, it's meaningless to ask: It From Bit or Bit From It? It is Bit and Bit is It". That is "It" and "Bit" are fundamentally inseparable.

I invite you to my essay (http://www.fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/1855)and incidentally I conclude there: "Therefore, 'it from bit' and 'bit from it' is just a depiction of the same digital nature on a mirror".

With regards

Dipak

Hi dear Kimmo,

Your essay is interesting in many aspects. Particularly I felt that you clearly dividing the abstract information from real source of information. And the real object is indivisible from its real properties/attributes, which we representing abstractly in different ways (particularly as encoded form of ,,bits,, as well) So, for every healthy man must be clear that concept of ,,information,, is a human creation only. Thus, the intention to build something real from ,,bits,, it will be an incredible absurd. I think you can be agreeing with me because this conclusion is follow from your position as well. If you have no objection then I think we are the adherents and just we must support each to other. I am inclined to rate your essay high, if you find that we really have common points. Hope soon get your response. Essay text

Sincerely,

George

Dear Kimmo,

We are at the end of this essay contest.

In conclusion, at the question to know if Information is more fundamental than Matter, there is a good reason to answer that Matter is made of an amazing mixture of eInfo and eEnergy, at the same time.

Matter is thus eInfo made with eEnergy rather than answer it is made with eEnergy and eInfo ; because eInfo is eEnergy, and the one does not go without the other one.

eEnergy and eInfo are the two basic Principles of the eUniverse. Nothing can exist if it is not eEnergy, and any object is eInfo, and therefore eEnergy.

And consequently our eReality is eInfo made with eEnergy. And the final verdict is : eReality is virtual, and virtuality is our fundamental eReality.

Good luck to the winners,

And see you soon, with good news on this topic, and the Theory of Everything.

Amazigh H.

I rated your essay.

Please visit My essay.

Hello Kimmo from Margriet O'Regan !

As I personally enjoy ideas that challenge the mainstream your essay was a great read for me.

My own investigations have led me to conclude that 'information' is NOT digits - no kind nor amount of them (including any that can be extracted from quantum phenomena!), nor how algorithmically-well they may be massaged & shunted through any device that uses them.

Unequivocally they - digits - make for wonderful COUNTING & CALCULATING assistants, witness our own now many & various, most excellent, counting, calculating devices BUT according to my investigations real thinking is an entirely different phenomenon from mere counting, calculating & computing.

For which phenomenon - real thinking - real information is required.

My own investigations led me to discover what I have come to believe real information is & as it so transpires it turns out to be an especially innocuous - not to omit almost entirely overlooked & massively understudied - phenomenon, none other than the sum total of geometrical objects otherwise quite really & quite properly present here in our universe. Not digits.

One grade (the secondary one) of geometrical-cum-informational objects lavishly present here in our cosmos, is comprised of all the countless trillions & trillions of left-over bump-marks still remaining on all previously impacted solid objects here in our universe - that is to say, all of the left-over dents, scratches, scars, vibrations & residues (just the shapes of residues - not their content!) (really) existing here in the universe.

Examples of some real geometrical objects of this secondary class in their native state are all of the craters on the Moon. Note that these craters are - in & of themselves - just shapes - just geometrical objects. And the reason they are, also one & at the same time, informational objects too, can be seen by the fact that each 'tells a story' - each advertises (literally) some items of information on its back - each relates a tale of not only what created it but when, where & how fast & from what angle the impacting object descended onto the Moon's surface. Again, each literally carries some information on its back. (Note : Not a digit in sight !!)

How we actually think - rather than just count, calculate & compute - with these strictly non-digital entities, specifically these geometrical-cum-informational objects, in precisely the way we do, please see my essay.

I did not make the distinction between computing with digits & real thinking with real information, sufficiently strongly in my essay.

This contest is such a wonderful 'sharing' - Wow - & open to amateurs like myself - Wow. How great is that !!! Thank you Foundational Questions Institute !!! What a great pleasure it has been to participate. What a joy to read, share & discuss with other entrants !!!

Frankly, I think your own analysis of reality would accommodate 'geometrical-objects-as-units-of-information' particularly well !!!!!

Very best regards,

Margriet O'Regan

Kimmo

yours was a fun essay to read. I especially enjoyed your tone. You wrote it in a good mood and with a smile on your face ..and it shows :) And yeah, the content was very agreeable to me too (xcept the antimatter in the end, but what do I know)

Thanks,

-Marina