Dear James

I have skimmed your paper, quickly realizing that to understand it and make intelligent comments requires many readings and lots of time learning not only what is standanrd thermodynamic theory, but also your version of it if that is what you are proposing.

So for now just a few questions - who is Gibbs? Is the paradox related to Maxwell's demon ? And also about your Appendix B can you explain in a bit more detail about Boltzman's number and the concept of mass in your theory - is it based on some physical image or model that you have? Relating mass to acceleration is an extension to Einstein's basic concept about gravity in GR, but how does it 'work'?

Thanks and best wishes

Vladimir

11 days later

James,

Interesting reading, and good thinking. It's on a subject I'm certainly no expert on, so it was enlightening, and I liked your approach. I found some correlation with my own in terms of Gibbs assumption that "The gases were either distinguishable or they weren't." This then ignores and excludes the 'middle' between 0 and 1, which I also identify as a mistake when dealing with nature. I also like your use of fundamental units, which I identify as relevant to wavelength, not the derived abstract 'frequency' that then confounds logic leading to paradox.

I then also like your 'quantized' time increment (3). your other postulates appeared very radical (rich coming from me I suspect!!) and I couldn't rationalise them at first read. I hope I'll get a chance to read again with them in mind, but if you can help here (I know length is always an issue) please do.

I wish you luck.

Peter

12 days later

Dear James

Sympathy for me first, but I do not understand you are "accounting" for what is that ?

http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/1802

To all who have contributed messages to this forum:

Thank you for your messages. I have been sick for over three weeks. Very little stamina. I did participate in some discussions with Tom and Lev but those were easy. The hardest part was typing accurately. Now I want to put my time into addressing the concerns of others about my essay. Here is a first part to be followed by others:

The were two purposes for my essay. One was to point out, as I have done so many times to no avail, physicists do not know what thermodynamic entropy is. They give evasive answers such as: Thermodynamic entropy is a measure of energy unavailable to do work; or it is a measure of the degree of disorder. Each time an answer is given for any property in the form of: It is a measure of this or that, then, the writer is making known that they do not know what the property really is.

One knows what a property is when one describes it by its uniqueness. In other words, thermodynamic entropy does not have the units of Joules nor does it lack units such as 'disorder' does. It has units of joules per degree kelvin. The problem for physicists is made clear by the presence of the degrees kelvin. Those are the units of temperature. They are unique units. They are what I refer to as arbitarily indefinable units.

There are only two naturally indefinable units. Those are the units of empirical evidence. The units of empirical evidence are meters and seconds. There are no units existing before meters and seconds by which to define either one of them. Units are indefinable if they cannot be defined in terms of pre-existing units. Degrees were introduced because it was not known what temperature was. Temperature is an indefinable property. It is the fourth indefinable property. The third is mass.

Both mass and temperature are arbitrarily made into indefinable properties and are assigned indefinable units because it was not known how to define either of those properties in terms of pre-existing properties or their units. The dilemma for this kind of arbitary action is that neither degrees nor kilograms are units of empirical evidence. They are made up as human inventions. That act of invention is removed in my essay. All units, and therby their associated properties, are defined in terms of the units of empirical evidence.

The reason for going to this trouble is that: Thermodynamic entropy, and its type of analysis such as 'it increases for a closed system', is the beginning of the path that was historically followed leading to statistical analysis such as is done with the idea of 'bits'. Yet, this path is not realy there. What I mean is that physicists do now know what thermodynamic entropy is. I show what it is. But, because thermodynamic entropy is an unknown property, the pathway to statistical analysis must be reconstructed based upon knowing the properties involved.

So, before I could address the issue of analysis of 'bits', I needed to show how to establish the corrected pathway between the macroscopic world of thermodynamics, the 'it' world, and the microscopic world of 'bit's.

Next I will explain the method I used to remove the need for inventing arbitarily and artificially indefinable properties and indefinable units. Then I will explain what is thermodynamic entropy. I will use that explanation to make clear what Boltzmann's entropy is. Then, the subject of this essay, I explain what is mixing entropy. The importance of explaining mixing entropy has to do with the fact that Gibbs' work on mixing entropy laid part of the foundation for the mathematics of quantum physics and for information entropy. Both of these anaalyses involve statistical treatments of 'bits'.

James Putnam

    There should be no need for theoretical inventions in the fundamentals of physics. Those inventions fill voids left due to lack of fundamental knowledge. In other words, when a property is not understood, the theorist fills in the gap in knowledge with their guess about what they think might be the missing knowledge. The difference between knowledge and theoretical substitutions for it is made apparent by the role that empirical evidence plays. If the knowledge is real, then it will be directly supported by empirical evidence. The theoretical substitutions will instead include inventions that are not dictated by empirical evidence.

    For example, the equation f=ma results from mathematically modeling patterns of changes of velocity of objects. Empirical evidence directly supports this formula because patterns in changes of velocities are what empirical evidence consists of. The acceleration term is that which is empirical evidence. change in velocity with respect to time is acceleration. The other two properties, force and resistance to force (mass), are inferred from variations in the patterns. That inferrence is directly supported by the empirical evidence of acceleration.

    The equations f=ma presents the first encounter with lack of knowledge by physicists. The knowledge that is lacking is: What are force and mass? The answers should be fully supported by the empirical evidence. That is the way the knowledge should be obtained, but it is not obtained in that way. Physicists do not rely upon empirical evidence to learn how to proceed. They resort to theorizing about the natures of force and mass.

    Here is how that problem occurs: Both force and mass should be defined in the same terms as is the empirical evidence from which their existence is inferred. Everything we know about both force and mass is made known to us by the empirical evidence. It should not be necessary to invent a solution for either force or mass. Yet, physicists failed to define both force and mass from the properties of their empirical evidence. It was believed that neither force nor mass could be defined using only the properties of distance and time. It is those two properties alone from which all empirical evidence is obtained.

    It was decided, due to lack of knowledge, that either force or mass needed to be made an invented property. By invention, I mean that one or the other was to be declared to be a third naturally indefinable property joining with the empirically natural indefinable properties of distance and time. The decision to make mass a fundamentally indefinable property was a theoretical invention introduced for the purpose of filling in a void in knowledge. This practice of filling voids in knowledge with guesses is the stuff from which theory is made. It should never be allowed to occur if there exist other possibilities of interpretation that are dictated by the empirical evidence.

    It is the case that the empirical evidence of patterns in changes of velocities of objects does give information about how both force and mass can be defined in the same terms as is the empirical evidence from which their existence is inferred. The possible solutions are limited by that which is learned from (f/m)=a. This form of the equations shows that if one is to define both force and mass in the same terms, and their units, as is the empirical evidence from which their existence is inferred; then, those units of force divided by the units of mass must reduce to the units of acceleration. The units of acceleration are meters divided by (seconds ^2).

    James Putnam

    From the three properties of mass, distance and time, all other properties of mechanics can be defined. All other units of mechanics besides kilograms, meters and seconds are definable in terms of kilograms, meters and seconds. There remains a property of thermodynamics that is not definable in terms of mass, distance and time; nor are its units definable in terms of kilograms, meters and seconds. That property is temperature.

    The purpose of removing the theoretical guess to make mass a fundamentally indefinable property is to, make all properties, including temperature definable in the terms of empirical evidence. There should be no need for units other than meters and seonds. That is the cirucmstance that should result from rooting all physics equations firmly in their empirical evidence.

    The equation (f/m)=a allows for a few choices of possible units for force and mass. One of those choices is to give the units of inverse acceleration to mass. Force would then be unit free. That is the choice that I used. It is the choice that worked and continued making good sense as higher level theory was developed. Not only was mass made a definable property, but, so was temperature.

    Both properties are defined using only that which is learned from empirical evidence and without injecting invented properties or definitions in the form of theoretical guesses. The nature of mass is not guessed into existence nor is the nature of temperature guessed into existence. The benefit of defining temperature instead of making it indefinable is that thermodynamic entropy is made known.

    I use my essay to introduce the empirically dictated definition of thermodynamic entropy. From that point on, my essay deals with explaining Boltzmann's entropy, statistical entropy, and Gibb's mixing entropy. In this manner, the pathway from the macroscopic world to the microscopic world is made no longer theoretical, but is rather firmly established depending directly upon the dictates of empirical evidence.

    There is, due to fixing the definition of mass, an automatic transition from the macroscopic world of 'it' into the microscopic world of 'bit', and, that transistions occurs due to temperature. When temperature is correctly defined, as it is in my essay, it connects thermodynamics to the mechanics of the microscopic world.

    James Putnam

    If the foundation is flawed, as in the case of using thermodynamic entropy as if it were disorder, then the value of predictions will be adversely affected. In the case of the Gibb's paradox, the paradox appears to exist because thermodynamic entropy was not understood in its true nature. The faulty prediction was that there shoud be a significant predictable change in temperature due to the mixing of two disimilar ideal gases.

    The gases were both at the same temperature before mixing. There was no change in temperature due to the mixing process. Knowing what is thermodynamic entropy, as made known in this essay, contradicts the prediction of change in temperature. The corrected prediction is that there will be no change in any thermodynamic property, including temperature, due to mixing two dissimilar ideal gases.

    The unknown nature of thermodynamic entropy was made known in this essay because I corrected the interpretation of temperature first. Temperature is no longer an indefinable property requiring indefinable units. I define temperature in terms of energy and time. the units of temperature become those of energy per time. The initial act of making mass and force both definable properties with definable units is what leads to defining energy in units of meters. That conclusion will not be understood by reading this message. It is explained in this essay.

    With the clarification of what is thermodynamic entropy, Boltzmann's entropy, and mixing entropy, the pathway between the macroscopic 'it' world and the microscopic 'bit' world is made firm. The mathematics and the properties, with their units, included in those equations are corrected in definitions and in form.

    James Putnam

    Why change the definition of mass? This is a property that is used throughout physics equations. Changing the interpretation and units of mass will affect the interpretations and units of almost everything else. It is a property that is so integral to theoretical physics that no change will receive serious consideration without giving a very strong reason for the change. Even then, resistance will remain due to the prevailing opinion: Why change what has worked so well?

    Theoretical physics is very successful at making predictions. Any erroneous change in mass and its units could be expected to immediately and persistently foul up theory yielding results that make no sense and are incapable of reproducing those successful predictions. Should the change to mass not harm physics equations. Should it reproduce the successful predictions and even improve on them, then that makes a very strong case for seriously evaluating its potential correctness.

    That correctness would be immensely bolstered when comparing it to current theory, if it also produced clear, always present fundamental unity. That is what occurs as a result of redefining mass using only empirical evidence for direction. Any other direction allows theorists to mix their imaginings into physics equations. It is that infiltration of theoretical inventions into physics equations that can immediately and permanently cause the loss of fundamental unity. The new work that I have presented on several occasions shows that fundamental unity does exist and is incompatable with retaining theoretical inventions.

    The change in the definition of mass, as indicated by empirical evidence, is that mass is the inverse of acceleration. That acceleration is the evidence for a fundamental property that remains a major part of physics theory. It reveals itself as the unifying cause for all effects. That is why my many examples of results given here in essays for all five contests are successful in producing unifying connections between all effects. I included for a second time a result that would seem to be unrelated to thermodynamic entropy. That result is the demonstration of how the two expressions for the fine structure constant are unified. They become unified for the same reasons that thermodynamic entropy becomes a known property.

    James Putnam

    Dear James Putnam,

    I have down loaded your essay and soon post my comments on it. Mean while, please, go through my essay and post your comments.

    Regards and good luck in the contest.

    Sreenath BN.

    http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/1827

    Dear James,

    I thought you might be interested in chengxi guo's essay, specifically in his discussion of force:

    "Force is not an entitative concept. It is designed as an intermediary virtual parameter in processing physical problems. The force is said to be intermediary, because when we use the concept of force, it always appears in the interaction manner. The virtual property of force is that it does not have objective substantiality, can not exist alone in breaking away from entities.

    In Newton's law of motion, the two concepts of force and mass are defined in one equation. The mass here is usually considered as inertial mass, confusion also arising from the relationship between inertial and gravitational mass. Aside from the confusion, from a logical point of view, force and mass in the second law played a role of mutual definition logically out of place, this can not be satisfied."

    You can read his paper for his specific treatment. I mentioned your approach in a comment on his page.

    Hope you are recovering well.

    Best,

    Edwin Eugene Klingman

      Hi Edwin,

      I feel fine. My strength is back. Thank you for mentioning my work at another's forum. I don't think that I will be following through on it. I have written and discussed enough here to have an accurate assessment of the value others here placed on my work. I don't say this because of the asinine effort by Tom to discredit my work. The combination of that display along with looking at my placement in the current contest are symptoms that I am wasting my time.

      I never have done well in these contests and allowed for the expected resistance to my ideas. However, looking at some of the essays that I have been placed below clarifies the situation more than enough for me to understand that it is definitely not only Tom's attitude that so violently rejects my ideas.

      I have turned my attention to trying to complete a paper I submitted to that conference I have mentioned. I submitted a draft yesterday. It was a day late. Yet it was accepted and I was invited to present an improved finalized version personally for the conference in a few weeks. My immediate problem is not this contest. It is that fixing and rewriting my draft is not going well at all. It needs to be done today and it looks like I have no chance of completing it.

      Even if I managed to squeeze a comprehensible version into the required ten pages, it is not anywhere near being in their required form. I thought I would be reformatting the paper today. Instead upon re-reading it this morning, it reflects the disjointed piecing together that I did to complete it quickly. Even the newly written sections were rough. I am impressed that the representative of the conference could recognize the intended purposes of the paper.

      It is not a one or two day fix. Then it would still remain to put it into its proper form. So perhaps I should relax this year, follow more peaceful interests of mine, and enjoy being retired. I do have other interests. :)

      Good luck to you in the contest. I did re-read your essay and gave you a 10 a while back. I would like to see your work given serious consideration by other physicists. I can't see for myself that that has yet happened. Maybe it will this time. I don't think that I will be reading or rating any more essays. Well back to work so that I at least know that I really tried to finish.

      James

      James,

      I'm sorry to hear about the deadline. I know how hard it is and how much time it takes to whip our ideas into presentable shape.

      There are many aspects at play in the FQXi scoring, and quality of thinking is far from the top. I believe that those who believe in magic are not happy to read arguments that expose this, and score accordingly. Also, by posting the scores, FQXi almost guarantees last minute jockeying to knock the lowest scores out of the winners category so that others may move in to replace them. And there are even grudges that have built over the last few years. So I would not put too much emphasis on the scores. I know that I could have written a different essay that would score more highly than my current one. But I am writing, like Phil Gibbs and others, to get my ideas recorded in as permanent a medium as I can. I believe that's what you are doing also. It *is* worthwhile.

      I did want to alert you to the fact that Lee Smolin (as noted in earlier comment) and now chengxi guo share your unhappiness with the way force and mass are defined. And I am still examining effects in various equations of replacing mass with inverse acceleration. I've been too busy lately to do much, but I have yet to encounter problems when I perform this replacement. At some point in the future I'll try to provide you details of what I'm doing.

      When it reaches the point of depressing you, it's time to back off and get perspective. You are retired and live in a beautiful part of the country. Enjoy your life; it's the best revenge!

      Your friend,

      Edwin Eugene Klingman

      James,

      I normally use the 'submission date' ordering, to try to keep track of what's new. But I just ordered the essays by community ranking, and was amazed. You note that several poor essays are ahead of you. I agree. There are also at least three exceptional essays far below you!

      The scoring is so screwed up in this contest I don't think you should even pay attention to it. I don't.

      Edwin,

      Well, I kept at it and improved the paper immensely. It was re-submitted late today but on time for the deadline. I don't know yet it its form is fully acceptable, but, the conference representative seemed appreciative of having received it. I was assigned to make a remote presentation at 9:30 AM Eastern time. Unfortunately, I will be in a small village on the ocean in Oregon. It will be 6:30 AM for me. There is no cell phone service, but, there is wi-fi. I think I will set myself up outside on the beach with the ocean behind me. There are huge picturesque rock formations out in the water. I will have to find out first how far the wi-fi reaches from the old cabin that I will be staying in. It is almost on the beach itself. I think it sounds like it could be a fun experience.

      I did a remote presentation last year and could see myself as I did it. I come across looking even older than I am; and, with my mannerisms, I appear to be something of a character. A lot of smiling and head moving. Also, I learned that my progressive lenses cause me to raise my head up to see the computer screen. So, a camera located on the computer picks me up with my nose and chin sticking somewhat upward. It added to the character look. It was humorous to see myself doing the presentation. There was nothing I could do but just go along with it and keep smiling. :)

      James

      James,

      Cameras are for young guys. But as long as you can keep smiling, you're OK.

      " ... the asinine effort by Tom to discredit my work."

      James, your attitude makes me wary of saying anything at all to you. If you don't subject your work to criticism, and instead advise your critics to read everything you've ever written and ignore the contradictions, the work ends up being of use to no one but yourself. Which is fine, if that is all you want.

      In any case, if your conclusions are true, nothing that I or anyone else does or says can discredit them. However, when you make statements like "Mass is the inverse of acceleration ..." and then go one to say that therefore relativity must be wrong, you betray a profound innocence of relativity -- Einstein already accounted for that possibility when he derived special relativity in the first place. Einstein's equation for rest energy, E_0 = mc^2, follows from E^2 = m^2c^4 (pc)^2, where p represents momentum. A massive particle of zero momentum must therefore have negative mass. No problem there -- physicists, particularly cosmologists, have plenty of uses for the idea of negative mass.

      If as you claim, though, mass is undefined (it isn't) -- then defining mass as the inverse of acceleration only compounds the problem because it defines mass as existing only in negative form. Of course, we know this isn't true.

      Edwin quoted Smolin's latest book (which I am also reading), "In general relativity mass can only be defined globally. ...as measured from far, far away (from infinity actually). In the case of local mass [...] there is no clear definition yet. [And] mass density is a similarly ill-defined concept in general relativity." These facts have long been known -- which is what led to the conclusion of my last essay that the source of all information is a point at infinity. (This is no "pi in the sky" claim, either; the mathematics, if not the physics, is rigorous and mostly understood.)

      Now, how would you react if I accused you of making an asinine effort to discredit Einstein? (I don't think I've ever said such a thing to you -- though I might have said something similar to Pentcho Valev, and if not, I should have.)

      Let's meet facts with facts, and forget the bluster.

      I'm sorry to hear you were ill, and glad to hear that you are feeling better.

      Tom

        Tom,

        I acknowledge receipt of the last word. Thank you.

        James Putnam

        Edwin,

        I have been rewriting this essay for future use. You were correct about my not defining terms when needed. I find that by my squeezing it too much that there are rough parts that others could not be expected to go along with. One example is when I speak of what temperature is. My derivation for my statement is missing. Later my substitution for electric charge is also unsupported.

        While it is the case that I gave references where the supporting work can be found, I understand that readers aren't going to accept such radical changes just on the face of them. I should have held onto my essay longer, let time pass, and re-read it before submitting it. Maybe I would have found a better way to proceed. While I don't think that even a well written version would have been well received, readers deserve a better effort.

        I am considering all of this while preparing for my other presentation elsewhere. My other paper couldn't contain everything I wanted to say either, but, I will be prepared to produce additional slides with quick explanations for parts that deserve to be questioned. All of this has to be done efficiently within a limited scheduled time. This is something I need to experience more.

        James Putnam