Jim

The quote (ie first paragraph) is a post from Joe on Eckards blog (14/6 14.30). Joe picked up on a point, which was not relevant anyway to the point I was making to Eckard. So in responding to that (14/6 03.47) I asked Joe to continue this particular exchange on his own blog. But he responded with 14/6 14.30. So I then repeated that post on Joe's blog and responded.

You have made a similar point yourself, ie about comments on any given blog being restricted to comments on the essay associated with that blog.

Perhaps we can now move on, and you could comment on that point about St Pauls, or the comments I did post about your essay.

Paul

James,

Is the question and answer "Is the Universe unreal? Yes" real?

James,

Fascinating essay. Quite unique. I had to read it twice and I couldn't find a flaw in the logic I found.

I also find special relativity flawed, also proposing an optical illusion, and also address the Born Rule in my essay (as one leg of an ontological construction). I never supported the consequences of decoherence Everett proposed, which I suppose comes from studying quantum optics and looking closely into detection (again I discuss) but I do agree that dimensions are fundamental (i.e. wavelength, and do love your different and very original derivation and thinking.

However I think I may have found a possible problem. It's kind of at the beginning. Studying the starting assumptions, and considering in terms of the real universe not mathematics;

What if the reflective Law; a = a is false?

What would happen if quantum uncertainty means that number do not commute?

I actually decided to check the truth of the fundamental proposition a = a for nature some time ago. I still haven't managed to verify it. As an astronomer I've looked everywhere in the universe and can't find two things precisely alike. I've checked on Earth too. In forests for trees, cities for people, snowflakes, even grains of sand! Everything observable, above quantum scale, indicates a = a may be false! I again axiomise this in my essay as it allows interesting results.

Of course I agree a = a is perfect for mathematics, as a 'good approximation' of nature, but I suggest it does then seem to draw the line Dirac proposed. But anyway; back to your essay. what would the implications be for reality if a = a were a wrong starting assumption? (I assume the other two laws are also then wrong.) The triumvirate, logic, reality and maths do then all seem to be freed of paradox. In this universe anyway.

But right or wrong has no effect on the quality and value of an essay, so I commend you on yours. Your last line reminded me very much of my last years essay (also perhaps too dense for most like this one) "dimensions are the stage on which particles or bits do their great acts." (Did you ever get to meet 'Eddie and the electrons'?) With that I can 100% agree!

Well done. I hope you can also follow mine, and comment.

Peter

    Hi Paul,

    Ok, the way you explain it makes sense and I am mistaken in assigning the quote to you. Both you and Joe Fisher understood what was happening, I think, but I, one of the audience, didn't understand. I always write for two people when I write to you, one is you and the other is the audience.

    OK, onto your post. You say, "There was no observational light in Einstein, nobody was observing anything, ie questions about light speed are a wild goose chase." I would have to reply that if it is a "wild goose chase", then there are literally billions of people catching that goose and eating it. Our world is based on the correct predictions of Einetein's special relativity. Try having an NMR without it. Try operating your computer without it. Try communicating via satellite without it. But special relativity is designed around and built into the just listed objects. In other words the objects don't work without it. Your statement is sort of like saying "the air doesn't exist". If you shout that from the rooftops, I'm the people will be convinced.

    Let's go onto a different statement of yours, "Dimension is a specific aspect of spatial footprint, relating to the distance along any possible axis of that 'occupation'." I guess you are OK with the x dimension, and the y dimension, and the z dimension. What about the m dimension, or n dimension, o dimension, or p dimension, or q dimension, or r dimension, or s dimension, and of course the t dimension for time. That adds up to eleven dimension, or the number of dimensions that string theory suggests exists. Does your statement apply to the dimensions of m, n, o, p, q, r, s, and t? I don't think string theory has actually given letters for the extra dimensions, I'm only doing it to give you something to look at when I say eleven dimensions. You see in math, you can propose a limitless number of dimensions to work in, the math is already worked out for you. You have done this yourself in a limited way if you took any high school math. Math doesn't tell you where to stop when dealing with extra dimensions. The string theory people have taken this idea of math and decided to apply it to science. Math doesn't really limit you in dimensions, why should science, I think their thinking went. My submission says that in order for you to suggest any extra dimensions in science you also have to suggest extra relativities for each dimenison. Therefore my submission is a sort of dimension limiting conjecture proposal for science. Math, you can get away with unlimited dimensions, science, you can't. I have serious doubts that what I just presented will convince you in any way, but you aren't the only one listening. Remember, the audience. I could probably write Paul's response for him, but that would take out all of the suspense.

    Jim Akerlund

    Hi Peter,

    Thanks for the positive comments.

    As for your discussion concerning the "a=a is false.". If you look at the last proof in my submission, I state that an=am is false, as the stepping stone to a parallel universe numerial system. But asside of my proof, I am sure you will find somewhere in math where someone has discussed the "a=a is false" issue. The mathematicans have been very very busy while we weren't looking, and now they are coming back from their work and saying the world isn't as you think it is. I think sometimes they are right.

    Jim Akerlund

    Jim

    "I would have to reply that if it is a "wild goose chase", then there are literally billions of people catching that goose and eating it. Our world is based on the correct predictions of Einetein's special relativity"

    They are on the 'goose chase' because they do not realise it is not observational light, just light at a theoretical constant speed, ie a constant reference against which to calibrate distance and duration. You find an example of observation in Einstein. There is always light, but nobody sees with it. When Cox & Forshaw explain it, they use a light beam clock.

    They are not 'catching and eating it'. The mistakes Einstein made were counterbalancing. He did not understand how timing works (following Poincare's principle of simultaneity), which meant he invoked an 'extra' layer of time. He conflated reality and the light based representation thereof, which meant he did not identify a timing differential. He alluded to doing so-timings the same if in the "immediate proximity", which is incorrect anyway, but what somebody thinks they are doing, means to do, is irrelevant, it is what they do which matters. These two times are the same. In effect, Einstein shifted the timing differential to the wrong end of the physical process. There is no timing differential in existence, it occurs uniquely at any given time. The difference occurs in the receipt of the light based representation, which is fundamentally a function of spatial position.

    [There are the first 24 paras of a paper on this on my essay blog]

    The other main point to realise in unravelling this mess, is that SR is not 1905. SR, as defined by Einstein involves:

    So, special relativity, as defined by Einstein, involves:

    -only motion that is uniform rectilinear and non-rotary

    -only fixed shape bodies

    -only light which travels in straight lines at a constant speed

    It is special because there is no gravitational force (or more precisely, no differential in the gravitational forces incurred). This is a statement of a hypothetical circumstance which is of no use. But he thought it resolved the "only apparently irreconcilable" problem between the two postulates. Which is does not. And it does not because the second postulate is irrelevant, Einstein does not deploy it as defined (this is the 'wild goose chase'). But, yet again, people have not read what the originals actually say. 1905 involves two different states which cannot co-exist, ie in vacuo & not in vacuo. Light is in vacuo, but 'matter' is not, because it undergoes length alteration, and light is just an entity moving at a theoretical constant speed. SR is a circumstance which is effectively nothing. Then there is GR.

    Relativity is wrong, there is no relativity in physical existence.

    "I guess you are OK with the x dimension..."

    What I say is that given what dimension is, then "the number of possible dimensions is half the number of possible directions that the smallest substance in physical existence could travel from any single spatial point". We conceptualise space via a matrix. I do not know how many this is. Existence is only spatial. t is concerned with the turnover rate of realities, the rate at which the existential sequence progresses, there is only one reality, ie physically existent state, at a time.

    Maths is a representational device of reality, it is not reality. "You see in math, you can propose a limitless number of dimensions to work in..." Yes, but we do not inhabit that existence. I can propose that this existence is a shoot em up game, but there is no experienceable evidence to support that belief either.

    Paul

    Hi Paul,

    The response I was going to write for you wasn't what you wrote. I guess you surprised me in that respect. The response I was going to write for you would have been less coherent then what you wrote, but that doesn't mean your response is the model for coherency. I spent a good six months trying to write this submission. Yes, I started it before the FQXi contest started. It contains what I believe are the best ideas I can write down concerning the subject. but the ideas really aren't mine, they are free to anyone who is interested in them. My submission is one way to view the universe, it is not the only way to view the universe. An ant views the universe from it's perspective, is his view better then mine? No. Is my view better then his? No. Is your view of the universe better then mine? You will provide an answer, I have no power to influence your answer. Do as you see fit. Investigate as you see fit. But, is your view of the universe better then an ants view of the universe? I get up and I fall. I do this several times and finally I wonder, "Is there anybody watching me do this"? I look up and I see Paul Reed looking at me. What is the expression you have on your face? Is it the look of somebody who doesn't fall?

    As for your comments on Einstein's special relativity, well for me the evidence is overwhelming that Einstein got it right.

    Jim Akerlund

    Hi Hoàngcao,

    This contest was about its or bits. Having picky data collection in a contest about information is OK by my standards. Anyway, thanks for the comments.

    Jim Akerlund

    Jim

    The universe, or physical existence, only exists for us in one form, it is not a function of human's perspectives.

    Here are the key quotes which the man himself defined SR by, why doesn't anybody read what he said, rather than just regurgitate interpretations:

    Einstein 1916 section7

    "At this juncture the theory of relativity entered the arena. As a result of an analysis of the physical conceptions of time and space, it became evident that in reality there is not the least incompatibility between the principle of relativity and the law of propagation of light, and that by systematically holding fast to both these laws a logically rigid theory could be arrived at. This theory has been called the special theory of relativity to distinguish it from the extended theory, with which we shall deal later."

    Einstein 1916 section 18

    "provided that they are in a state of uniform rectilinear and non-rotary motion...The validity of the principle of relativity was assumed only for these reference-bodies, but not for others (e.g. those possessing motion of a different kind). In this sense we speak of the special principle of relativity, or special theory of relativity."

    Einstein 1916 section 22

    "A curvature of rays of light can only take place when the velocity of propagation of light varies with position. Now we might think that as a consequence of this, the special theory of relativity and with it the whole theory of relativity would be laid in the dust. But in reality this is not the case. We can only conclude that the special theory of relativity cannot claim an unlimited domain of validity; its results hold only so long as we are able to disregard the influences of gravitational fields on the phenomena (e.g. of light)."

    Einstein 1916 section 28

    "The special theory of relativity has reference to Galileian domains, ie to those in which no gravitational field exists. In this connection a Galileian reference-body serves as body of reference, ie a rigid body...In gravitational fields there are no such things as rigid bodies with Euclidean properties; thus the fictitious rigid body of reference is of no avail in the general theory of relativity."

    So, special relativity, as defined by Einstein, involves:

    -only motion that is uniform rectilinear and non-rotary

    -only fixed shape bodies

    -only light which travels in straight lines at a constant speed

    It is special because there is no gravitational force (or more precisely, no differential in the gravitational forces incurred). It was the state which, he thought, reconciled his two postulates, which he admitted in 1905 were "apparently irreconcilable". It does not, because he never had any light, so the second postulate is irrelevant, as defined. The state defined here could be characterised as stillness, nothing is happening. It is meaningless.

    So addressing SR as per the standard interpretation, and trying to resolve the dichotomy of rate of change and light speed, is a waste of time. The issue is what relativity really means, ie given the mistakes, what is it. Not what Einstein thought it was. The best answer is encapsulated in the following:

    Einstein para 4 section 9 1916

    "Events which are simultaneous with reference to the embankment are not simultaneous with respect to the train, and vice versa (relativity of simultaneity). Every reference-body (co-ordinate system) has its own particular time; unless we are told the reference-body to which the statement of time refers, there is no meaning in a statement of the time of an event. Now before the advent of the theory of relativity it had always tacitly been assumed in physics that the statement of time had an absolute significance, ie that it is independent of the state of motion of the body of reference. But we have just seen that this assumption is incompatible with the most natural definition of simultaneity; if we discard this assumption, then the conflict between the law of the propagation of light in vacuo and the principle of relativity (developed in section 7) disappears".

    In other words, existence occurs relatively. Which is rubbish. Existence occurs. What incurs a timing differential is the time of receipt of a light based representation thereof.

    Paul

    Hi Paul,

    I'm still waiting for you to actually respond to my submission, not Einstein's. The only quote of Eintein's that I have in my submission is his definition of principle of relativity. I then go and change his principle of relativity to a new principle of relativity(parallel universe). Maybe you have the dots connected that shows your above comments are vital to my submission. I don't have the dots connected.

    You know, I have been reading the book "Introduction to the Theory of Relativity" by Peter Gabriel Bergmann. I have read many different books on relativity, this one is my latest acquistion. The book spends lots of time developing the math needed to use the equations of general relativity. As I was reading this, I asked the question, why the importance of coordinate transformations in the math? Then it struck me and the answer was kind of a shock to me. I can demonstrate the answer to you using just a simple two dimensional equation for a line. Here is a simple equation for a line in the cartesian coordinate system, y = mx b. Let us say you set up that equation where the origin is close to the x and y values, in other words x and y have values of less the 100 when the line crosses both the x and y axis. OK, we now perform a coodinate transformation to this equation along the x dimension of 1,000,000. We still have our y = mx b equation, but the x values are in excess of a 1,000,000. So the question is what have we done when we did this coordinate transformation? The answer that I got was that the coordinate transformation shifted the view of the observer in the equation. Put that in your "existence occurs" statement.

    Jim Akerlund

    Jim

    "I'm still waiting for you to actually respond to my submission, not Einstein's"

    ? This is what I did in my first post. But then you wrongly attributed something Joe wrote to me, to which I responded. You then picked up on a point I made in that first post, to which I have been responding. That point, and the comment about Einstein in order to illuminate it, being in respect of your essay as of the bottom of page 3. The issue is not what quotes you happen to have in your essay, but what constitutes, according to the man who wrote it, SR, which you refer to in your essay. Since you did not accept my statement I think backed it up with quotes.

    I am not sure what the purpose of your second paragraph is. I do not comment on GR. And as I have said before maths is a representational device. In respect of your last sentence, this is, generically, very simple. Existence occurs in a sequence of discrete definitive physically existent states of whatever comprises it. As this sequence of states progresses, there is a physical interaction with other physical phenomena which are not inherently part of the sequence. This results in physically existent representations of that sequence (obviously the relationship between these needs to be established), the most obvious one being light. Receipt of this, enables awareness of existence. The timing of the receipt is, fundamentally, a function of relative spatial relationship, which can, obviously, be discerned.

    Paul

    • [deleted]

    Hi Paul,

    I'm not that smart, so when things go beyond what I understand, I will look for other sources to give a basis of my understanding. With that in mind, I will go to a source for help. That source is "What is Dimension" by Karl Menger published in "The American Mathematical Monthly" Vol. 50, No. 1 (Jan., 1943). I quote from that source. "A good definition of a word must include all entities which are always denoted and must exclude all entities which are never denoted by the word." With that statement in mind, we will now apply it to your sentence in the first post. "In establishing what constitutes dimension, distance and space in our reality, we use a reference which conceives of any given physical reality being divided into a grid of spatial positions." Can I think of anything that falls outside of your definition? Let's try differential geometry, any actions of any animal, and parallel universes. Here is another quote of yours, "Dimension is a specific aspect of spatial footprint, relating to the distance along any possible axis of that 'occupation'." So, I guess the concept of the vacuous dimension doesn't exist in your world? The problem I had with your first post is that it doesn't refer to anything I say in my submission. It is sort of like this example, I write about tennis and your reponse is to complain about boxing.

    Now on to the my writing of the mysterious second paragraph. The equation I gave in the second paragraph isn't GR. That equation is y = mx b. Apparently it was to general for you, let's make it very specific to y = x, in this case, from the y = mx b, m = 1 and b = 0. y = x generates a diagonal line on a cartesian coordinate grid that passes through the origin. To solve this equation, give a number for x and the equation will give you a number for y, in the y = x case, x is the same number as y. OK, now in the paragraph I said I wondered why all the concern with coordinate transformations and I came to the conclusion that the coordinate transformations shifted the view of the observer. Let's shift the view of the observer in our y = x equation by 1,000,000. Our new equation is y = x - 1,000,000. We still have our diagonal line but it no longer passes through the origin. Now to put both equations into your "existence occurs" statement. The equations y = x defines the reality of a line, should you choose to draw it, that passes through the origin, ie. the observer. The equation y = x - 1,000,000 defines the reality of a line, should you choose to draw it, that doesn't pass through the origin, ie. the observer. We have shifted the observer in the equation. The observer exists in the equation in the form of the origin. The equations of y = x and y = x - 1,000,000 are mathematical abstractions of potential line drawing reality. One aspect of reality is encapsulated in the equations that isn't encapsulated in your "existence occurs" statement. But I'm guessing the math equations are still to abstract for you. Let's go to the everyday, if you make any plans for your day, did the plans occur before they occurred or did they occur only when "existence occurs"?

    All of this is just more distractions away from my submission.

    Jim Akerlund

    Jim

    I do not understand your point in respect of my sentence: ""In establishing what constitutes dimension, distance and space in our reality, we use a reference which conceives of any given physical reality being divided into a grid of spatial positions."

    This is precisely what we do in order to discern that x is such a shape, is in y position, is z distance from another, or whatever. The reference against which decisions on spatial positions, and alteration thereof (ie movement) is made is on the basis of a matrix which is located with reference to some identifiable entity. I have no idea what this has got to do with 'differential geometry, any actions of any animal, and parallel universes'.

    Similarly with your next comment on my sentence: ""Dimension is a specific aspect of spatial footprint, relating to the distance along any possible axis of that 'occupation'." I have no idea what 'vacuous dimension' (whatever that is) has got to do with it. The concept of dimension, as I said, involves the notion of distance along any axis. At the minimum, we conceive of three, ie up/down, forward/backward, side/side. But physically there are far more, because existence does not occur in this simplistic state. And the number of dimensions is half the number of possible axes.

    "The problem I had with your first post is that it doesn't refer to anything I say in my submission"

    Again, as above re Einstein, I do not understand this comment. You think it does not refer to anything, because I am defining SR, dimension, etc, as is. There is no point on commenting on a comment about something if the presumption about what that something constitutes is wrong.

    "The equation I gave in the second paragraph isn't GR". I never said it was. My comment about GR was in respect of your sentence: "The book spends lots of time developing the math needed to use the equations of general relativity". In respect of the maths, as I said before, but will repeat, maths is a representational device, it is not reality. It is only valid, as a representation, if it corresponds with reality. Also, reality is not what any given observer sees (or senses in any way). What any given observer receives is a specific light based representation of what occurred (ie reality/existence), which is terms of timing of receipt, etc, will vary according to a number of physical influences, the main one being spatial position.

    Paul

    Hi Paul,

    You say, "I do not understand your point in respect of my sentence: ""In establishing what constitutes dimension, distance and space in our reality, we use a reference which conceives of any given physical reality being divided into a grid of spatial positions." This is precisely what we do in order to discern that x is such a shape, is in y position, is z distance from another, or whatever. The reference against which decisions on spatial positions, and alteration thereof (ie movement) is made is on the basis of a matrix which is located with reference to some identifiable entity. I have no idea what this has got to do with 'differential geometry, any actions of any animal, and parallel universes'."

    For differential geometry, you define space with out reference to x, y, z, etc only by the change of some location in the space. This can result in spaces that can't have x, y, and z, for all of spacetime, for example Riemannian geometry.

    For "any actions of any animals", your statement, "This is precisely what we do in order to discern that x is such a shape, is in y position,..." doesn't apply to any animals. If you think animals think this way, you are gravely mistaken.

    As for parallel universes, They are in the realm of speculation right now and to make solid definitions of spacetime for them right now, without actually visiting them, is kind of arrogant. My submission, says that even though we think they can't produce correct mathematical equations, through the relativity(parallel universe) I presented, you can make sense of the math equations. That says nothing of the physical existence of things in the parallel universes. We have a long way to go before we can go to these parallel universes. My submission says, the math is valid there.

    Your next statement, "I have no idea what 'vacuous dimension' (whatever that is) has got to do with it." You state elsewhere that 3 dimensional objects exist. If we subtract 1 from 3 we get 2 dimensional objects, do they exist? If we subtract 1 from 2 we get 1 dimensional objects, do they exist? If we subtract 1 from 1 we get 0 dimensional objects or the vacuous dimension, does the vacuous dimension exist? You see, in your statement, "Dimension is a specific aspect of spatial footprint, relating to the distance along any possible axis of that 'occupation'.", I am having a hard time putting your "spatial footprint", "distance", and "any possible axis of that 'occupation'" in the vacuous dimension or the zero dimension. If you can fit them in, please show me how.

    Next statement, "There is no point on commenting on a comment about something if the presumption about what that something constitutes is wrong." This is one of the more obvious points where we differ. My whole submission is based on special relativity being right, if you think SR is wrong then and then you try to attack SR to attack my submission then you are going about it the wrong way. If you think SR is correct then read my submission, if you think SR is wrong then reading my submission is a waste of your time.

    Before the advent of the microbial theory of disease transmission, people thought that they were catching the diseases by bad air. In England one of the first reasons to suspect the microbial theory, was caused by a scientist who in tracking Cholera, tracked suspected cases and where they lived. He then surveyed where they got their water and found that all of the cases got their water from only one well. In my mind if you are saying SR is wrong, it is of the same type of thinking that disease comes from bad air. We can figure out parallel universes, but going the "bad air" route is not the way to go.

    Jim Akerlund

    Jim

    "For differential geometry, you define space with out reference..."

    In which case, then as a representational device for depicting space it is wrong. Any given reality is a spatial state. To define that in terms of position we effectively divide it into a matrix of spatial positions, and locate it wrt to some existent component of that reality, otherwise it is meaningless. Anything is only 'somewhere' or 'such and such a shape', etc, wrt something. Similarly, if we then compare that with another reality, we can identify movement or alteration in shape, ie alteration in spatial position. Of course, what is important here is to understand what constitutes a reality, because otherwise any attempt to depict it is going to be wrong. And most of the time what is being asserted as a reality is in fact a sequence of realities.

    "doesn't apply to any animals"

    How animals think is irrelevant to the physical circumstance, as it is with us. Thinking, sensing, being conscious of, measuring, etc, etc, has no effect on the physical circumstance. My point is that in order to represent any given reality in terms of its spatial attributes, this is the reference.

    "You state elsewhere that 3 dimensional objects exist"

    No I didn't. I state that objects as we conceive of them do not exist, what exists at any given time is the physically existent state of whatever comprises it (ie ultimately there is something). Leaving aside the fact that I also said 3 dimensions is the minimum conceivable, but not what actually exists (and explained what does). "I am having a hard time putting...", this is because you are trying to do something which cannot be done, not because of what I said.

    "My whole submission is based on special relativity being right..."

    Yes, but the first point is, what is it. And the man himself tells us, though nobody is listening. And as defined, it is correct. But it is not what people , including you, are depicting it as. Also, as defined, whilst being correct, it is useless, because it is, by definition, a physical circumstance where nothing happens. As this is the only state in which a constant speed of observable light reconciles with a constant rate of change. The fact that Einstein had no observable light is another matter.

    Paul

    7 days later

    Hi Paul,

    Your responses are drawing me a picture of how you think and the picture I am getting isn't very pretty. I am going to mention three science researchers from the past and some of the things they did that you, I am guessing, have a problem with, and were are not talking about researchers from the past century. The most recent one presented the research I will talk about in the 1860's. The researchers are Galileo, Newton, and Boole. I will present the research they did and then I will provide the quote of yours that contradicts their research. This little exercise is to show that your problem isn't with just Einstein, but with all of science and not complicated science either.

    We start with Galileo. He was a polyscientist, in that where ever his mind could understand and apply practially, he did on all subjects available to him. One of the things he studied was the inclined plane. He set up intricate timing mechanisms to test objects propelled by these inclined planes. Here is the problem you have with Galileo and his inclined plane. I quote you, "Time is the rate of turnover of realities (ie physically existent states). That is, there is no time within any given realty, because a reality can only be one physically existent state, and can only exist in that state at a specific time.", and "In other words, existence occurs relatively. Which is rubbish. Existence occurs. What incurs a timing differential is the time of receipt of a light based representation thereof.", and "...I state that objects as we conceive of them do not exist,...". Your definition of time is at odds with Galileo's inclined plane, because Galileo had no definition of time when he performed his experiments, if he had he would have wrote about it. And since things don't exist as we conceive them then the inclined plane doesn't exist as we conceive it and all of Galileo's experiments using the inclined plane were deceived.

    Onto Newton. Newton was the co-inventor of the calculus. There are two sides to this calculus, the derivitive side and the integral side. The two sides kind of do opposite operations of each other. History tells me the Liebnitz invented integral calculus notation and Newton invented derivitive calculus notation. Above both integral calculus and derivitive calculus is Differential calculus. Differential calculus applied to geometric surfaces of three or more dimensions, called manifolds, is Differential Geometry. Now for your quote that calls into question all of the calculus. I quote,

    "In which case, then as a representational device for depicting space it is wrong. Any given reality is a spatial state. To define that in terms of position we effectively divide it into a matrix of spatial positions, and locate it wrt to some existent component of that reality, otherwise it is meaningless. Anything is only 'somewhere' or 'such and such a shape', etc, wrt something. Similarly, if we then compare that with another reality, we can identify movement or alteration in shape, ie alteration in spatial position."

    So, your saying that all those crazy mathematicans got it wrong concerning the calculus since Newton.

    Onto Boole. He was an English mathematican who published the book called "The Laws Of Thought" in about 1860. The mathematicans after Boole took his ideas from that book and created Boolean logic among other things. Boolean logic was just a very interesting logic until computers came along, then it bacame a very important logic. You can't learn computer programming without it. One of the main things about the "The Laws Of Thought" that I got out of it is that ideas can be represented as abstract mathematical symbols and then be subject to the rules of math independent of the internal consistency of the ideas themselves. Now for your quote that contradicts this, "How animals think is irrelevant to the physical circumstance, as it is with us. Thinking, sensing, being conscious of, measuring, etc, etc, has no effect on the physical circumstance." So, your telling me that the computers that are operating produce no physical circumstance? I am not saying that computers think, I am saying that computers follow the same rules in order to produce an outcome, due to Boolean logic, as thinking does in man and animals. In other words, the laws of thought.

    Please, in responding to this response, wait more then three hours. You need to do some thinking and that takes time.

    Jim Akerlund

    Jim

    "Your definition of time is at odds with Galileo's inclined plane, because Galileo had no definition of time"

    My definition cannot be "at odds" with something that apparently did not exist, though a proper answer would be, obviously, he did have one, at least in his head.

    I do not understand calculus, so I cannot say whether what I am saying contradicts it. I suspect any contradiction revolves around that first point about the occurrence of realities and hence what time is. Because what I have said in terms of a matrix, etc, is precisely what we do (or should be doing) to calibrate spatial position.

    "that ideas can be represented as abstract mathematical symbols and then be subject to the rules of math independent of the internal consistency of the ideas themselves"

    Only if that corresponds with the reality, otherwise all you have is a metaphysical system. Computers just(!) work something out, in accord with the information/rules applied. I do not understand the purpose of this point. If I remember correctly, my point you are quoting was that consciousness/the subsequent processing of physical input received/whatever you want to call it, has no effect on the physical circumstance.

    I have a feeling that you have not altogether grasped what I am saying re reality. Which is partly my problem because I can only use words that usually have other connotations. So consider this:

    Take any 'object'. Say that bush in the garden. Now we know it alters, we can, if we watch, see the alteration, and if we put it under an electron microscope we can see even more. In other words, when, physically, is the bush the bush? If there is any form of alteration, then it is different. That is, we are deeming reality in terms of 'objects' which do not actually exist, as defined, because they are being defined on the basis of superficial physical characteristics. The bush is the bush because it fulfils certain manifestations. Indeed, we even contradict ourselves by saying 'it changes'. This being a rationalisation to overcome the incorrect conceptualisation of what is it.

    So, where does this all 'stop'? One can 'deconstruct' the bush in terms of its physical existence until one arrives at a state of no alteration. Something we cannot achieve in practical terms because of the vanishingly small degrees of alteration and duration involved, but logically that is where it will lead. Or we can, in more general terms, start with the fact that existence occurs, independently of the mechanisms whereby it is detected, but it also differs. Now, occurrence necessitates definitiveness. Difference necessitates alteration. The only way those can be reconciled is sequence. So, any given reality is a discrete definitive physically existent state of whatever comprises it at that time. Any degree of differential to that is another (the subsequent) reality. One cannot have difference and it be of the same reality. There is no time in any reality.

    Consider timing. This is calibrating rate of change, irrespective of what is involved. If you have a quartz timing device, then crystal oscillations are being compared to some other sequence of alteration. The timing devices are referenced to a standard constant (or as near as possible) rate of change (ie they are synchronised) so that the system works and the measurements are expressed in a common, and understandable, denominator.

    On the subject of spatial position, the way in which reality occurs is important. Because distance is solely determined by physically existent states, since it is the difference between them in respect of spatial attributes, and differences do not exist physically. So distance can only involve physically existent states which exist at the same time. It is not possible to establish a distance, as opposed to some form of conceptual spatial relationship, between something which exists and something else which does not.

    Therefore, any given distance is always unique, since it reflects a definitive physically existent circumstance at a given time. Notions which relate to the quantification of it in terms of space, or duration, and the comparison of one way with the other, are a fallacy, if they involve the presumption that there could be a difference. Whatever quantification methodology, there can only be one result.

    However, distance could be conceived as a single example of change, ie a difference. So it can be expressed, conceptually, in terms of duration incurred. The concept being that instead of expressing distance as the fixed spatial quantity which it is, it can alternatively be quantified as the duration which would have been incurred had any given entity been able to travel along it, either way. But it must be understood that there is no duration as such, this is just an alternative to, and the equivalent of, a spatial measure, ie a singular quantity. Failure to understand the absence of elapsed time in a physical reality results in the flawed application of the equation x = vt. Making this mistake reifies change, and hence duration.

    Paul

    James,

    If given the time and the wits to evaluate over 120 more entries, I have a month to try. My seemingly whimsical title, "It's good to be the king," is serious about our subject.

    Jim

      Hi Paul,

      Let's start with this statement of yours.

      "My definition cannot be "at odds" with something that apparently did not exist, though a proper answer would be, obviously, he did have one, at least in his head."

      No actually Galileo didn't have a conception of time in his head. You see part of the thing that science does is give new ideas for the collective human minds to think about. The concept of time as separate from other dimensions didn't exist at the time of Galileo. The concept of time proceeding at different rates in different locations didn't exist at the time of Galileo. I will try to illustrate this with the concept of vacuum. Before the concept of vacuum, people assumed that the air pressure that exists around us was the same all over the universe. Between the stars, same air pressure. Then people started getting in balloons and rising to various heights, and some of those people died. This was a mystery. A scientist proposed that the air pressure decreased as you got higher in the atmosphere. He tested it. Another scientist wonders if it is possible to have a place where no air pressure exists, or a vacuum. He created it. Here is an example of a concept that we currently do not concern ourselves with, but may very well be very important in the future. And to say that you do have a conception of this in your head right now, is foolish. The example is current research concerning plant communication between plants. In the western U.S. right now is a beetle infestation of certain types of trees. Research has been presented where infessted trees are giving out certain signs (don't remember the signs) where other trees that aren't infested are receiving these signs and altering there "behavior" as a result. So, the question becomes, when you plant the plants in your garden do you consider the types of plant commication that will occur between the specific plants that will inhence the plant growth in your garden? According to you, you do have this well thought out in your head and you can explain it to me. Please do!

      Let's go onto another quote of yours.

      "Take any 'object'. Say that bush in the garden. Now we know it alters, we can, if we watch, see the alteration, and if we put it under an electron microscope we can see even more. In other words, when, physically, is the bush the bush? If there is any form of alteration, then it is different. That is, we are deeming reality in terms of 'objects' which do not actually exist, as defined, because they are being defined on the basis of superficial physical characteristics. The bush is the bush because it fulfils certain manifestations. Indeed, we even contradict ourselves by saying 'it changes'. This being a rationalisation to overcome the incorrect conceptualisation of what is it."

      Your above quote is called a "strawman" argument. I will show you the points that make it that type of argument. By the way, a strawman argument is an argument where a person sets up a fake opponent that doesn't actually exist and then proceeds to destroy that opponent by his points in his argument. The fake opponent in your argument is the change in the definition of the word "bush" whenever any change occurs to any bush. You see, the definition of the word bush doesn't change when the condition of the bush changes. Then you claim victory in this statement, "Indeed, we even contradict ourselves by saying 'it changes'. This being a rationalisation to overcome the incorrect conceptualisation of what is it." Yes, you have indeed attacked and defeated our definition of the word "bush".

      I shall stop right here, because I'm not liking the tone I am setting in this post, and I am afraid it will only get worse.

      Jim Akerlund