Dear Than Tin,

Thank you for your perspicacious reading of my essay. I will look at your paper and comment in due course, but there is one point I would like to make now: not only do the dualities you mention exist, but the /relation/ between them evolves, in my jargon, according to the Principle of Dilaectical Opposition, that is, as one element is ppotentialized, the other is actualized, alternately and reciprocally the probability of emergence of a new entity at the point of maximum opposition. This is what is missing in most discussions of extension of the "mother of all dualities" to the macrocopic domain.

Best regards,

Joseph

Dear Joseph,

I have down loaded your essay and soon post my comments on it. Meanwhile, please, go through my essay and post your comments.

Regards and good luck in the contest,

Sreenath BN.

http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/1827

    Hello, Sreenath,

    I think you wrote a very good review essay. I liked one phrase in particular: "the logic of unseen relations". That is what my logic is all about.

    I look forward to you comments and rating on my Essay.

    Best regards,

    Joseph

    Brenner,

    This essay flowed with a logical clarity that marks it as the most beautiful in the (rather limited) batch that I have had privilege to read.

    What is the difference between matter and energy? I hear them used different in view of fields and simply don't know whether they are different, the same, or have a connotative meaning based on who says them, in which case that doesn't seem a solid basis.

    Best of luck,

    Amos.

      Hello, Amos, and thank you for the nice words. The simplest answer to your question (and I am not a physics teacher but a recycled organic chemist) is that the term matter is commonly used to refer to more or less stable macroscopic objects and energy to gradients where something is moving, water, heat, etc. But macroscopic objects are composed of atoms in turn composed of particles, electrons and protons which are energy in different forms. But there are also flows here, as of of electrons in a current. The easiest thing is to speak of matter-energy which, literally, covers everything.

      Best wishes,

      Brenner

      Dear Brenner,

      Thanks for your response to my posting in your thread. I will shortly post my comments on your essay in your thread and rate it accordingly.

      Best regards,

      Sreenath

      Dear Joseph,

      Your essay is highly original and it is based on modern computational models. Your views can be concluded in your own words "matter-energy and information emerge together from some more fundamental underlying but at this time unknown substrate - the ground of being". This something unknown substrate is the reality underlying the facts of the world. This situation reminds me of Kant when he says 'noumenon' is the reality underlying the 'phenomenon'.

      This is also the sort of conclusion I have come to in my essay. Considering these points I have rated your very impressive essay highly.

      Best wishes,

      Sreenath

      Joseph,

      A very comprehensive coverage of the topic. I am very much in agreement with your conclusion that reality is a dichotomy of energy and information. I think though that this relationship can be mined more deeply. Energy manifests information, while information defines energy. Since energy is conserved, in order to create new information, old information has to be erased. This produces what we commonly refer to as the "arrow of time."

      The problem is that as we view reality from an essentially point perspective, our understanding of it is then filtered though the limitations of this frame. The result is that since we experience this effect of time as a sequence of events, we treat it as a vector from past to future and physics, in all its reductionistic focus, enforces this by treating it as a measure of duration.

      The actual physical dynamic is that the changing configuration of this "energy" creates the "flow" of events, but it is not this physical "presence" that moves from past to future, rather those events coalesce and disperse, thus go from future potential to past circumstance.

      To wit, the earth is not traveling some fourth dimension from yesterday to tomorrow. Rather tomorrow becomes yesterday because the earth rotates.

      Clocks run at different rates for the very practical reason that they are separate processes. The cat's fate doesn't branch out into multiple possibilities, but rather it is the actual occurrence of events which determine the cat's fate, ie. future potential becomes past circumstance.

      Duration doesn't transcend the present, but is the dynamic processes occurring between the occurrence of events, so it is not a "blocktime" vector.

      The problem this poses for relativity is that time is reduced to an effect of action, similar to temperature. One could say time is to temperature what frequency is to amplitude.

      This means "spacetime" is not some underlaying metaphysical fabric, but correlations of measures of distance and duration, using the speed of light as mediation. One could do something similar with ideal gas laws and create "temperaturevolume," but temperature is only the basis of our organic processes, not our narrative and logical ones, as sequence is, so we have a more objective perspective of temperature.

      This leaves space as background. Physics dismisses it largely as an artifact of measurement, but three dimensions originated as the coordinate system and are how one models space from the point perspective of the individual. Three dimensions are no more foundational to the nature of space than longitude, latitude, and altitude are foundational to the surface of the planet. Yet distance, area and volume are measures of space, while time is a measure of change. Without the time vector, space has no structural properties which can limit, bound, warp it, etc. Not only does this make it infinite, but absolute as well, since it is inert. This can be measured as centrifugal force of a spinning object. Necessarily the effect of centrifugal force is due to the relation between the spin of the object and the inertia of space(call it an infinite frame, if your model requires), not the relation of the object to external references. So filling space is this "energy" cycling between contracting mass and expanding radiation, which express those parameters of infinity and inertia. Radiation expanding out to infinity and mass collapsing into inertia. In this description, background radiation is not residue from some primordial singularity, but the solution to Olber's paradox; the light of ever more distant sources, shifted completely off the visible spectrum. Could go on with all the issues with cosmology, but will stop here.

      Regards,

      John Merryman

      Hi Joseph,

      I was worried, your bio indicated a professional philosopher, I was prepared for the worst.

      What a pleasant surprise! Your essay is very readable, wide ranging, and incisive. It gets a very high rating (yes some bits that are really energy someplace).

      Do come over to my blog. I favor a continuous space-time in conjunction with a digital concept of change (that has been masquerading as a continuous velocity). Sounds like a deep subject, but I manage to keep it humorous. It follows some of your intuitions and I think you will enjoy it.

      Thanks,

      Don L.

        Joseph,

        Your essay is a clear-cut and well-defined discussion of the contest problem. It is deliberate, yet conversational, logical, and complete.

        I agree that energy is more fundamental than information and I do tend to debunk the role of consciousness in measuring or observing matter and the ambiguities of describing examples in the micro and macro world.

        If in the BB the quantum vacuum (you mention it embodies energy) was the source of a cascading sea of virtual particles, did they contain energy and no information? Did gravity result from their formation? We can assume so but I have no idea how, but my essay proposes that the foundation of our perfect universe couldn't possible be observed by consciousness until 1 billion years after the BB, since we had no mixture of atoms to form into our bodies.

        I would be interested in your view of my essay.

        Jim

          Hello, Don, and thank you for the kind words. Re my bio, the key words are "Ph.D. in organic chemistry and career in the chemical industry". I started my second career only about ten years ago. Thank you for the invitation to join your blog. I will look at it, but have difficulty keeping up with even my one current newsgroup (Foundations of Information Science) But your description is certainly interesting. A good laugh about logic is what we all need!

          Best,

          Joseph

          Hello, Jim and thank you for your comments on my Essay. I found much that I agree with in yours. I also cannot stand the Hameroff nonsense. Penrose, however, has somewhat redeemed himself in my eyes in his 2011 or 2012 book, /Conformal Cyclic Cosmology/. In Steinnhardt's story, I see an unsolved problem of a first cycle, because his cycling does lose energy. How would you approach this aspect - draw on an infinite energy source "far beyond" the 2nd Law?

          Best regards,

          Joseph

          Joseph,

          I guess the earlier cyclic models failed because of heat death. The more recent, Steinhardt's too, evades energy loss with a expansion each cycle, preventing entropy from building up. None of us have the knowledge to understand colliding branes, I would think including string theorists, and will the big crunch Steinhardt speaks of change the particle interaction strength. Maybe we need to run into more advanced aliens to find out.

          May your score soar.

          Jim

          Hi Joseph,

          Thank you for a masterful tour through the possibilities of It from Bit and Bit from It. You wrote:

          > "These five It-from-Bit positions are contradicted by general relativity; which requires an inertial frame of reference; relational quantum mechanics (see below); and current cosmology which supports a configurational view of the universe in which there is neither a containing space nor a standard background time."

          It is important to note that there are many unresolved problems with current cosmology, among them Dark Matter, Dark Energy, CMB anisotropy, quasar energies, source of inertia etc. In my essay Software Cosmos I attempt to show by construction a software architecture that addresses such cosmological issues within the simulation paradigm.

          While my conclusion, that a computational view is tenable, differs from yours, I think it may be because we have a different concept of computation, not because we have a different concept of reality. In my view, the material world, and the physics we divine from it, are only the *top* layer of a simulation. Lower layers could have different computational rules. It is essential to note that upper layers of a software architecture can know very little about the lower layers they are based on. To an agent or algorithm within a layer, the fundamental operations defined by the layer architecture "just happen". It is only the lower (implementing) layer that knows *how* they happen. We might say it is the responsibility of lower layers to "animate" the upper layer, as it is too abstract to do so by itself.

          I read your wonderful paper "The philosophical logic of Stéphane Lupasco (1900-1988)" last night. His insights confirm for me the idea that there is an architectural layer lower than the material. The conventional view is that Life emerges from Matter and Mind from Life. But my simulation model suggests another possibility: that Life animates Matter, and Mind animates Life. I hope you get a chance to read my essay as I would appreciate your insight.

          Hugh

            Dear Joseph,

            One single principle leads the Universe.

            Every thing, every object, every phenomenon

            is under the influence of this principle.

            Nothing can exist if it is not born in the form of opposites.

            I simply invite you to discover this in a few words,

            but the main part is coming soon.

            Thank you, and good luck!

            I rated your essay accordingly to my appreciation.

            Please visit My essay.

              Dear Joseph,

              After reading your essay :

              « Finally,

              a picture of the universe as fundamentally either continuous or discontinuous

              may be usefully replaced by one in which

              both continuity and discontinuity are jointly and dynamically instantiated. », by JOSEPH E. BRENNER

              You'll be surprised one day to discover how your views are right.

              Good Luck!

              Amazigh,

              Thank you for your positive comments. We share the intuition about opposites, and what I have tried to do is to attach that intuition to a rigorous concept of emergence of new entities.

              Best wishes,

              Joseph

              Hello, Hugh and thank you for the good words. Your essay is, in turn, a masterful tour through the latest insights from physics and computer science. I stumble, however, on the phrase "If the universe is a simulation". It is this position, of which another expression is in your comment to the effect that the "lower layers are a simulation" whose necessity I cannot comprehend. Now the good news is that my logic "predicts" the existence of our two opposing positions! They, themselves are a reflection of the energetic duality I obviously prefer, but where I still give priority, not to physics, but to the stuff I am made of. As Rescher said, quoting Peirce, the fact that we are made of the same stuff as the universe is an indication, not a guarantee, that our intuitions about it are not toally false. I include your intuitions, but give them no higher ontological purport than mine.

              Cheers,

              Joseph

              Dear Joseph,

              I enjoyed reading your engaging and thought-provoking essay.

              You quoted McMullin as saying that it is the potentiality, not actuality, "that reality should be attributed at its most fundamental level". If the dialectic interaction between cause and effect is framed in terms of Lagrangian mechanics, then that potentiality is quantum potential.

              You also wrote that "information may be an artifact of human thought". From the perspective of quantum information theory, the observer's knowledge of bits arises from the erasure of entanglement information which encodes quantum potential. (See my essay "A Complex Conjugate Bit and It".)

              Best wishes,

              Richard

                Joseph,

                I'm quite convinced I posted here earlier based on my notes of your excellent essay and analysis. I propose quantum uncertainty dictates at least one of the ~10,000 posts here will be lost to cyberspace. Mine must have been it!

                You propose; "QM's error is in not allowing structure", which I agree and take to a physical proof, also then consistent with; "causality but of a 'different kind".

                I can't help also agree that; "One should, therefore, construct a basis for the emergence of information and meaning from the 'underlying invisible world of quantum fields and particles'." as I do so in this and my previous essays.

                Do you not however agree the real problem as the 'acceptance' of any such theory, however successful, by the guardians of doctrine? How can that problem be addressed?

                Congratulations on an excellent job with your essay. I hope you can get to mine before the deadline and look forward to your views as to whether it may meet the specification you describe.

                Very best wishes

                Peter