Doctor Schlafly,

I found your essay to be superbly constructed, exquisitely written with all of its major points meticulously analyzed and dealt with perfect thoroughness and clarity.

Please bear with me; I am a creaky old self-taut (thinking makes me tense) realist. I am uneasy about the assertion that just because the physicists can break some purified matter down into particles that occupy skads of empty space at one time and that means that me and the chair I sit on have to be made of the same sort of particles. The chair and I obviously occupy a different part of the Universe than your particles do. Where does the reality lay sir? Is it in my head and my seated bottom, or is reality located in your spaced out particles? It cannot be in both places can it? How can I know about the space of your particles and not know of the supposedly only empty space surrounding the particles you are suggesting are contained compactly in my brain?

The "free willers who are convinced that only determinism or randomness could exist are completely wrong. As I have pointed out in my splendid essay BITTERS, Only unique exists, once. Unique cannot be determined. Unique cannot be random. Unique cannot be probable. Unique can only ever be inevitable.

    • [deleted]

    I agree with you that the determinism or randomness dichotomy is incorrect.

    It is very refreshing to read a well written skeptical essay and I share much of your skepticism. However, in my view, there are a few misconceptions in your essay.

    - The so called "free will theorem" does not establish that particles have free will or exhibit genuine stochasticity, whatever those terms may mean. It is just another proof of Bell's theorem, pure and simple. Of course, Kochen and Conway do not conclude this, stating instead that measurement outcomes must be undetermined prior to measurement. However, they fail to note that this is incompatible with the other assumptions they have made. In particular, TWIN implies that measurement outcomes on the two wings have to be perfectly correlated and the only way this can happen in a hidden variable theory is if it is deterministic. Therefore, undetermined measurement outcomes is not an option unless you give up at least one of their other assumptions, with locality and realism being the obvious choices.

    - In quantum cryptography, or more accurately quantum key distribution, the goal is for Alice and Bob to end up sharing correlated secret bits that are uncorrelated with and eavesdropper. It is not to share some kind of ill defined quantum information. The laws of QM show that they can do this, or more accurately that they can expand an existing secret key into an arbitrarily long one if we are relying on a classical protocol for authentication. This is not something you can do with classical systems, so I do not understand what your criticism of this is about.

    - There are secure quantum authentication protocols. Of course, one would need a quantum computer to implement them, and you may be skeptical of that.

    - Speaking of which, I don't understand your skepticism of quantum computing. Surely the free will theorem has nothing to do with it. If the mathematics of QM says that we can efficiently factor integers then we can do so, assuming we can get over the engineering difficulties. What precisely is the problem with Shor's algorithm.

    Thanks for your comments. The free will theorem may be overstated. I do not dispute that. My only point is that it is an additional reason to believe that whatever info is communicated by an electron beam, it is not classical info like ordinary bits.

    Expanding a short shared secret to a long shared secret is easily done with classical cryptography. Just iterate a secure hash function, for example. It is vulnerable to someone with infinite computing resources, as is all practical cryptography. Quantum cryptography substitutes some other vulnerabilities. I just don't see any practical utility to it.

    My skepticism about quantum computing has nothing to do with the free will theorem, and I do not dispute the mathematics of Shor's algorithm. Mainly I just think that a quantum computer executing Shor's algorithm would be surprising in a way that goes way beyond the standard experiments confirming quantum mechanics. But that is outside the scope of this essay.

      Dear Sir,

      Mathematics explains only "how much" one quantity accumulates or reduces in an interaction involving similar or partly similar quantities and not "what", "why", "when", "where", or "with whom" about the objects involved in such interactions. These are the subject matters of physics. The validity of a physical statement is judged from its correspondence to reality. The validity of a mathematical statement is judged from its logical consistency. Your essay is logically consistent.

      Because of the over-dependence on mathematical modeling, the cult of incomprehensibility, search for easier and faster ways like reductionism, and superstitious belief in the established theories, progress of science has been hampered. Hence there is a need to look afresh at the prevailing theories in a logically consistent manner based on the data now available and make necessary changes wherever necessary. One such area is the division by zero. Because of your mathematical background, we are putting these before you.

      Division of two numbers a and b is the reduction of dividend a by the divisor b or taking the ratio a/b to get the result (quotient). Cutting or separating an object into two or more parts is also called division. It is the inverse operation of multiplication. If: a x b = c, then a can be recovered as a = c/b as long as b ≠ 0. Division by zero is the operation of taking the quotient of any number c and 0, i.e., c/0. The uniqueness of division breaks down when dividing by b = 0, since the product a x 0 = 0 is the same for any value of a. Hence a cannot be recovered by inverting the process of multiplication (a = c/b). Zero is the only number with this property and, as a result, division by zero is undefined for real numbers and can produce a fatal condition called a "division by zero error" in computer programs. Even in fields other than the real numbers, division by zero is never allowed.

      Now let us evaluate (1+1/n)n for any number n. As n increases, 1/n reduces. For very large values of n, 1/n becomes almost negligible. Thus, for all practical purposes, (1+1/n) = 1. Since any power of 1 is also 1, the result is unchanged for any value of n. This position holds when n is very small and is negligible. Because in that case we can treat it as zero and any number raised to the power of zero is unity. There is a fatal flaw in this argument, because n may approach ∞ or 0, but it never "becomes" ∞ or 0.

      On the other hand, whatever be the value of 1/n, it will always be more than zero, even for large values of n. Hence, (1+1/n) will always be greater than 1. When a number greater than zero is raised to increasing powers, the result becomes larger and larger. Since (1+1/n) will always be greater than 1, for very large values of n, the result of (1+1/n)n will also be ever bigger. But what happens when n is very small and comparable to zero? This leads to the problem of "division by zero". The contradicting result shown above was sought to be resolved by the concept of limit, which is at the heart of calculus. The generally accepted concept of limit led to the result: as n approaches 0, 1/n approaches ∞. Since that created all problems, let us examine this aspect closely.

      Now, let us take a different example: an = (2n2 +1) / (3n + 4). Here n2 represents a two dimensional object, which represents area or a graph. Areas or graphs are nothing but a set of continuous points in two dimensions. Thus, it is a field that vary smoothly without breaks or jumps and cannot propagate in true vacuum. Unlike a particle, it is not discrete, but continuous. For n = 1,2,3,...., the value of an diverges as 3/7, 9/10, 19/13, ...... For every value of n, the value for n+1 grows bigger than the earlier rate of divergence. This is because the term n2 in the numerator grows at a faster rate than the denominator. This is not done in physical accumulation or reduction. In division, the quotient always increases or decreases at a fixed rate in proportion to the changes in either the dividend or the divisor or both.

      For example, 40/5 = 8 and 40/4 = 10. The ratio of change of the quotient from 8 to 10 is the same as the inverse of the ratio of change of the divisor from 5 to 4. But in the case of our example: an = (2n2 +1) / (3n + 4), the ratio of change from n = 2 to n = 3 is from 9/10 to 19/13, which is different from 2/3 or 3/2. Thus, the statement:

      limn→∞ an = {(2n2 +1) / (3n + 4)} → ∞,

      is neither mathematically correct (as the values for n+1 is always greater than that of n and never a fixed ratio n/n+1) nor can it be applied to discrete particles (since it is indeterminate). According to relativity, wherever speed comparable to light is involved, like that of a free electron or photon, the Lorentz factors invariably comes in to limit the output. There is always length, mass or time correction. But there is no such correcting or limiting factor in the above example. Thus, the present concept of limit violates the principle of relativistic invariance for high velocities and cannot be used in physics.

      If we divide 20 by 5, then what we actually do is take out bunches of 5 from the lot of 20. When the lot becomes empty or the remainder is below 5 (divisor), so that it cannot be considered a bunch and taken away further, the number of bunches of 5 are counted. That gives the result of division as 4. In case of division by zero, we take out bunches of zero. At no stage the lot becomes zero or less than zero. Thus, the operation is not complete and result of division cannot be known, just like while dividing 20 by 5, we cannot start counting the result after taking away three bunches. Conclusion: division by zero is mathematically void, hence it leaves the number unchanged.

      Mathematics is also related to the measurement of time evolution of the state of something. These time evolutions depict rate of change. When such change is related to motion; like velocity, acceleration, etc, it implies total displacement from the position occupied by the body and moving to the adjacent position. This process is repeated due to inertia till it is modified by the introduction of other forces. Thus, these are discrete steps that can be related to three dimensional structures only. Mathematics measures only the numbers of these steps, the distances involved including amplitude, wave length, etc and the quanta of energy applied etc. Mathematics is related also to the measurement of area or curves on a graph - the so-called mathematical structures, which are two dimensional structures. Thus, the basic assumptions of all topologies, including symplectic topology, linear and vector algebra and the tensor calculus, all representations of vector spaces, whether they are abstract or physical, real or complex, composed of whatever combination of scalars, vectors, quaternions, or tensors, and the current definition of the point, line, and derivative are necessarily at least one dimension less from physical space.

      The graph may represent space, but it is not space itself. The drawings of a circle, a square, a vector or any other physical representation, are similar abstractions. The circle represents only a two dimensional cross section of a three dimensional sphere. The square represents a surface of a cube. Without the cube or similar structure (including the paper), it has no physical existence. An ellipse may represent an orbit, but it is not the dynamical orbit itself. The vector is a fixed representation of velocity; it is not the dynamical velocity itself, and so on. The so-called simplification or scaling up or down of the drawing does not make it abstract. The basic abstraction is due to the fact that the mathematics that is applied to solve physical problems actually applies to the two dimensional diagram, and not to the three dimensional space. The numbers are assigned to points on the piece of paper or in the Cartesian graph, and not to points in space. If one assigns a number to a point in space, what one really means is that it is at a certain distance from an arbitrarily chosen origin. Thus, by assigning a number to a point in space, what one really does is assign an origin, which is another point in space leading to a contradiction. The point in space can exist by itself as the equilibrium position of various forces. But a point on a paper exists only with reference to the arbitrarily assigned origin. If additional force is applied, the locus of the point in space resolves into two equal but oppositely directed field lines. But the locus of a point on a graph is always unidirectional and depicts distance - linear or non-linear, but not force. Thus, a physical structure is different from its mathematical representation.

      You can visit our essay:

      "INFORMATION HIDES IN THE GLARE OF REALITY by basudeba mishra

      http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/1776".

      Regards,

      basudeba

      I just stumbled across this quote: "Free will is to mind what chance is to matter." -- Charles Darwin, Notebook M (begun July 1838). In Charles Darwin, Paul H. Barrett and Peter J. Gautrey, Charles Darwin's Notebooks, 1836-1844 (1987, 2009), 536. Free Will Quotes

      Dear Roger Schlafly,

      Since you already called Einstein overestimated, it is not a surprise to me that you called a spade a spade and ridiculed Wheeler-related ideas: "as if the universe were a giant ghostly digital computer without the hardware".

      Your essay was enlightening and enjoying to me but certainly not to everybody. Let me just add one more aspect. You mentioned: "Einstein ... later became dissatisfied with a theory of observables, and wanted a more "complete" view of reality." I am the one who argues that future data are not observable in advance and this restriction provides a more complete view of reality. Please try and jump over Singer's shadow.

      Best,

      Eckard

      Roger,

      If find your opening statement, "I consider different ways in which physics might be reduced to bits of information, but argue that none of these is more fundamental than quantum mechanics." true to the content of your well presented and logical essay. Although I agree with you position the QM is about 'predictable' measurable variables, I did not find an answer from you to 'how' these variables come to existence in the first place? Herein lies the chasm created by QM when it assumes measurements (effects) without its cause.

      I appreciated your coin analogy comment, "The coin itself may be deterministic. Likewise a quantum mixture of two eigenstates could be a deterministic object that only seems like a coin toss because of the way that it is measured. Whatever uncertainty there is may be entirely due to our lack of knowledge about the state, and the discreteness imposed by the measuring process."

      This lack of knowledge you speak of has indeed been identified in my essay using the coin-in-cup analogy which I invite you to rate: [link:fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/1809] http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/1809 [\link]

      There you will find how this 'knowledge' can be used to unify gravity with the strong, weak, and electromagnetic forces as one super-deterministc force. Good luck with your entry of which I have rated highly.

      Regards,

      Manuel

      Dr. Schafly:

      I like what you write, and cannot argue 0's or 1's. But, tell me, do electrons flowing in a wire move by jumping from atom to atom, and are these jumps quanta of negative charge with a charge of -1? And, do these transitions generate electromagnetic waves? And, would not such waves, if they exist, be at an ultrahigh frequency, but occur randomly adding up to a single wavefront which we call a magnetic field, whether AC or DC?

      And upon what do these waves ride, if not the Dark Mass, a mass which is gravitationally responsive and is therefore real, and to which, in my essay, I assign the permeability and permittivity of space. This Dark Mass fills the interstices of the atom as well as of all of space, so gives us a handle with which we can do wonders.

      Jim Wright

        Electricity has both wave and particle properties, according to quantum mechanics.

        Your Dark Mass seems to be different from dark matter, dark energy, and the aether, so I don't know what it is.

        Dear Dr. Roger Schlafly,

        I have down loaded your essay and soon post my comments on it. Mean while, please, go through my essay and post your comments.

        Regards and good luck in the contest.

        Sreenath BN.

        http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/1827

        Dr. Schlafly:

        In my paper I make an attempt to ID the Dark Mass using evidence supplied to us by our Astronomers, and by using new interpretations.

        Jim Wright

        A computer with no visible hardware is a consequence of my conjecture, which is specifically how and what things are visible.

        Imagine a computer model of fundamental particles, arranged into atoms, molecules, and finally a clock.

        As the program runs, the simulated clock runs too.

        A faster computer would run the simulated clock faster compares to a slower computer, but an observer inside made of the same types of simulated particles as the simulated clock would not observed any difernce.

        In fact, you could pause the whole simulation for a month, the CPUs clock will progress, but the simulated model clock will stop.

        If you restart after a month long pause the simulated observer would not realize any time passed.

        Likewise the only material that would exist to the simulated observer is stuff like the simulated clock, the hardware of he computer providing the simulated world with simulated particles of matter and light wouldn't be measurable itself

        Dear Roger,

        Thank you for presenting your nice essay. I saw the abstract and will post my comments soon. I totally accept your view point.

        I am requesting you to go through my essay also. And I take this opportunity to say, to come to reality and base your arguments on experimental results.

        I failed mainly because I worked against the main stream. The main stream community people want magic from science instead of realty especially in the subject of cosmology. We all know well that cosmology is a subject where speculations rule.

        Hope to get your comments even directly to my mail ID also. . . .

        Best

        =snp

        snp.gupta@gmail.com

        http://vaksdynamicuniversemodel.blogspot.com/

        Pdf download:

        http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/essay-download/1607/__details/Gupta_Vak_FQXi_TABLE_REF_Fi.pdf

        Part of abstract:

        - -Material objects are more fundamental- - is being proposed in this paper; It is well known that there is no mental experiment, which produced material. . . Similarly creation of matter from empty space as required in Steady State theory or in Bigbang is another such problem in the Cosmological counterpart. . . . In this paper we will see about CMB, how it is generated from stars and Galaxies around us. And here we show that NO Microwave background radiation was detected till now after excluding radiation from Stars and Galaxies. . . .

        Some complements from FQXi community. . . . .

        A

        Anton Lorenz Vrba wrote on May. 4, 2013 @ 13:43 GMT

        ....... I do love your last two sentences - that is why I am coming back.

        Author Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta replied on May. 6, 2013 @ 09:24 GMT

        . . . . We should use our minds to down to earth realistic thinking. There is no point in wasting our brains in total imagination which are never realities. It is something like showing, mixing of cartoon characters with normal people in movies or people entering into Game-space in virtual reality games or Firing antimatter into a black hole!!!. It is sheer a madness of such concepts going on in many fields like science, mathematics, computer IT etc. . . .

        B.

        Francis V wrote on May. 11, 2013 @ 02:05 GMT

        Well-presented argument about the absence of any explosion for a relic frequency to occur and the detail on collection of temperature data......

        C

        Robert Bennett wrote on May. 14, 2013 @ 18:26 GMT

        "Material objects are more fundamental"..... in other words "IT from Bit" is true.

        Author Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta replied on May. 14, 2013 @ 22:53 GMT

        1. It is well known that there is no mental experiment, which produced material.

        2. John Wheeler did not produce material from information.

        3. Information describes material properties. But a mere description of material properties does not produce material.

        4. There are Gods, Wizards, and Magicians, allegedly produced material from nowhere. But will that be a scientific experiment?

        D

        Hoang cao Hai wrote on Jun. 16, 2013 @ 16:22 GMT

        It from bit - where are bit come from?

        Author Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta replied on Jun. 17, 2013 @ 06:10 GMT

        ....And your question is like asking, -- which is first? Egg or Hen?-- in other words Matter is first or Information is first? Is that so? In reality there is no way that Matter comes from information.

        Matter is another form of Energy. Matter cannot be created from nothing. Any type of vacuum cannot produce matter. Matter is another form of energy. Energy is having many forms: Mechanical, Electrical, Heat, Magnetic and so on..

        E

        Antony Ryan wrote on Jun. 23, 2013 @ 22:08 GMT

        .....Either way your abstract argument based empirical evidence is strong given that "a mere description of material properties does not produce material". While of course materials do give information.

        I think you deserve a place in the final based on this alone. Concise - simple - but undeniable.

        Roger: interesting essay. I think you are too quick in rejecting the digital computer hypothesis. As I argue in my essay, and my published article "A New Theory of Free Will", quantum uncertainty and other such phenomena are an inevitable emergent result of peer-to-peer networked digital computers. But, I agree with you (and say as much in my essay): not everything can be reduced to digital bits.

        Jacek/Roger,

        I'd agree that geometry offers many answers - perhaps even leading to a Quantum Gravity theory one day.

        Regards,

        Antony

        Roger,

        If given the time and the wits to evaluate over 120 more entries, I have a month to try. My seemingly whimsical title, "It's good to be the king," is serious about our subject.

        Jim

        Dear Roger,

        Interesting essay and good responses to comments above. On your skepticism of quantum computing, I have a motion/question I am trying to formulate appropriately for those enamored of the Qubit idea:

        Given the different examples of binary choices and their physical supports (implicit in the assumption that bits must be carried by Its), e.g. vertical/horizontal polarization = photon; spin up/spin down = electron, etc

        And, if existence/non-existence is a binary choice of messages (as has been admitted in evidence, e.g. by Georgina Parry on 28 June), viz."the binary choice of there being an atom or no atom at a location... is like existence or non existence...seems to me a most basic attribute, like 1 and 0. The way I was thinking about it a material structure of some kind is required to carry the absence so that it is communicated. It is a really interesting point though that the existent Bit has a corresponding It but the non existent one does not but the absence can still be information. Thank you for raising that very interesting question."

        With the concurrence of Antony Ryan, Roger Granet, Edwin Eugene Klingman, etc

        Whereas no material thing can carry non-existence as an information and

        Whereas no superposition can be contemplated between existence/non-existence, unlike some other binary choices,

        The least that can be said is that this particular information is not a Qubit,

        And if this information is what lies at the "very very deep bottom" and "the ontological basement",

        I hereby move that all further discussion of Qubits and Quantum computing, where Bits entangle themselves and are superposed on each other should henceforth be suspended unless further evidence contradicting the above are presented.

        Best regards and all the best,

        'Senator' Akinbo

        *You are free to second or modify above motion before presenting to FQXi parliament :).

        My essay is here.