Hi Georgina,

I enjoyed your essay - it was interesting, easy to read and well written.

I think the increasing ineffectiveness of antibiotics, and the recent medical research findings relating to beneficial microbes, vitamin D, sleep and light are very relevant to the health aspects of our possible future. Also, agriculture is an important issue, though there has been dispute about the effectiveness of Allan Savory's methods in certain environments. You rightly emphasize respect for life, not just human life.

My one quibble would be that although your story says "it was decided that geo-engineering projects were too dangerous because of the unknown, undesirable consequences that might occur", I would say that genetic/bioengineering is even more so "too dangerous because of the unknown, undesirable consequences that might occur".

I liked the way you brought the latest research results into the story. I also liked "Once upon a time it was thought that all life was within a space-time continuum, where...everything that would happen was already written into its fabric...The clever men would show the mathematics and win the argument. Then it was found that it was a trick of the light".

As you say "Now it is the mission of... the human species, to build a future. Success will be measured by the contentment, health, altruism, high culture, and creativity of its people".

Cheers,

Lorraine

Thank you Lorraine,

if you look back in the discussion thread I have some links to the Savory institute, and Planet tech associates "Talking points about Savory" where the controversy is addressed.

I agree with you about the problems of genetic engineering.I could list many troubling issues that have already come to light but you are probably already aware of them. In the essay I didn't specifically mention genetic engineering and was not proposing it as a technology still in use, certainly not the current blunt tool approach. This tale is set in the future and though not mentioned perhaps by then genetic modification is conducted via DNA writing. The use of virus vectors that 'randomly' insert code having been superseded by precise, engineer controlled coding. That will instead give the precise products required and with greater stability of the code so gene transfer to other species is less of a concern.

I was actually thinking of engineering in a much broader context. I think I should have said bio and biological engineering as well as bio-mimicry, to be clear.

Quote from MIT, web.mit.edu/" The Department of Biological Engineering was founded in 1998 as a new MIT academic unit, with the mission of defining and establishing a new discipline fusing molecular life sciences with engineering. The goal of this biological engineering discipline is to advance fundamental understanding of how biological systems operate and to develop effective biology-based technologies for applications across a wide spectrum of societal needs including breakthroughs in diagnosis, treatment, and prevention of disease, in design of novel materials, devices, and processes, and in enhancing environmental health. Our departmental epigram is 'Creating Biological Technologies, from Discovery to Design', designating our intertwined emphases on advances in basic bioscience and in applied biotechnology. The innovative educational programs created by BE reflect this emphasis on integrating molecular and cellular biosciences with a quantitative, systems-oriented engineering analysis and synthesis approach."

The Once upon a time ...is referring to my explanatory framework for physics, I will attach one of the explanatory diagrams, just in case you are interested to see it.

I really appreciate the feedback you have given me. Thank you, GeorginaAttachment #1: 2_RICP3D_high_def_essay_version..pdf

Georgina

You list a lot of problems in the operation of society and address how they can be tackled. That is a major issue. However, there is one major issue that you do not address. Technological systems have irreversibly used up limited natural materials resources to temporarily provide society with goods, services and infrastructure. These systems have produced irrevocable wastes, including those that have caused climate change and ocean acidification. The unsustainable processes have also devastated the environment. One of the objectives of ELAM would be to address the challenge of society coping with the inevitable powering down as the infrastructure disintegrates.

Regards

Denis

Thank you Denis for reading and commenting on my essay.

I haven't directly addressed the issue of pollution but I have hinted that society run differently can be less wasteful and aim for, if not achieve, complete sustainability.Remember the affirmation "There is no wealth but life." "He who buys what he does not need steals from himself". Also there is the change in the way success is measured: by "contentment, health, altruism, creativity and high culture" I.e, not by increase in productivity of consumer goods and increasing consumption.

The restriction of living underground or under the sea will exert influence upon the way people express their individuality and success.I imagine that might be through cultivating and nurturing themselves, others and the environment rather than amassing many possessions or imposing status symbols and expecting admiration for having had the ability to do that.

Perhaps like Grace they will assemble digital collections for personal pleasure, which may be their own or others artworks, or anything that is a personal interest or they may 3D print small objects of desire, their own or other's creations, which can be recycled when no longer desired just retained as a file that can be reprinted by anyone at any time.

Dear Georgina Parry

Humanity need to go to the universe, because space on earth will not be enough for all. But, in intermediate period we need to develop sanctuaries on earth on deserts, underwater in Antarctic and so on. It is more rapid process toward universe than immediately go to the Mars or toward the Moon. I think that your advice should be developed to the perfection and then we should to go in the universe.

You gave good advice about sleep and secretion of melatonin. Do you practise this?

My essay

Best regards

Janko Kokosar

    Hi Georgina,

    I found your essay an enjoyable and interesting read. It's fun to imagine what the future might be like. Especially how humanity might live if we pass this stage of adolescence. Science or speculative fiction can also be a good way of presenting ideas to a wider audience.

    I guess a question everyone should consider when thinking of their idea of utopia is "How do we get there?" Do you see a path that humanity should take to get to the destination you present?

    I'm happy to discuss or provide feedback on anything else you would like.

    Cheers,

    Toby

      Hi Toby,

      this is not really my Utopia but a scenario that might come about as a consequence of our actions, severe climate instability or extreme change, devastation of the environment and agricultural production making life above ground highly problematic. Its not that I want to go there but if we had to then we could make the best of it by learning all we can about how to survive come what may. Which also prepares us for other hostile environments on other Worlds.

      The first sanctuaries are built to mitigate mass migrations, resulting from climate devastation, to prevent the destruction of the civilizations that lie in their path. It obviously is a monumental task that requires public support at a time when there may also be other environmental disasters, hardships, food and energy shortages or supply disruption. So there would have to be public information programmes to explain the necessity and gain support for them.

      Following the success of the first sanctuaries more are built as a response to worsening climate conditions and the people adapt to the new ways of life. Populations have to be limited to the numbers that can be supported and social cohesion is important because the sanctuaries can not work as life support infrastructure and biosphere without the dedications of all of the people who make it all work. So there is also social engineering to ensure that there is a shared purpose, history, education and values and new measures of success.

      The story is a vehicle for introducing a number of real problems and giving solutions. Somewhere in this discussion page there is a list of 14 problems that the essay addresses. I don't know if it is a complete list but those are what came to mind...population, child abuse/neglect, resource depletion, cancer, antibiotic resistance, climate change......

      You wrote "Do you see a path that humanity should take to get to the destination you present?" Its a path we should not take but may be taking. Flavio Mercati has written "U-turn or U-die". I have offered an alternative to U-die,in the face of the unknown learn to survive in every way possible and survive. (Become good sailors.)

      Thanks for reading the essay and for your comments and questions,

      Georgina

      Dear Janko thank you. Yes I think thorough preparation prior to space colonization would be important.

      I do feel a lot healthier when I have slept well, and especially if I go to bed early and wake naturally. I often turn out lights gradually as the evening progresses and have my bedroom completely dark with no electronic distractions. I would love lights that dim themselves and change wavelength and come back on in the morning rather than an alarm, so that's what I imagined in the story.

      Georgina,

      Fabulous, humanistic and clever key stones to create a basis for evolution. Delightful in its construction, prepossessing to follow the structured ideas that lead the attention toward the higher levels of human kind: dignity. Your work gives a deep value to science because is directed to create intelligent and innovative designs of blueprints to empower human race as a a group of systems leading cybernetics of cosmos in a rational and humanistic way.

      It was deep to realize that you also consider children like a sanctuary, this is the vision from my family all the time. Where I defer with you is that "social affirmation" is not a belief system shared in "all families", there is people blessed to have a strongly beautiful, deep, cultural, humanistic and kind basis to interact in the sanctuary and out of it.

      "Adapt to survive" something that Darwin pointed as the nature of effective survival also leaded in me a deep disappointment. Fortunately your extended vision of intelligent interaction in different fields of human life (that affects all the other forms of life) ignites a sparkle of a new path: intelligent design based in respect of the dignity of all living forms. Your vision of micro-solution-intelligent design to be incorporated in complexity-survival-systems is an insightful deep grounded solution to keep the cycles of life as continuous flows of energy.

      Fascinating you also perceive the silent flow of organization and life in chaos: non linear system. About your phrase: "Once upon a time it was thought that all llife was within a space-time continuum, where past and future were the same and everything that would happen was already written into its fabric." I share with you Remedios Varo paint called: "Space and time Weaving," I am sure will be of your like: http://caitlynmarie.net/?attachment_id=856

      Wish you good luck for your great essay based in the dignity of living forms, respecting and understanding natural systems for life and the culture of respect.

      Kindly,

      Orenda

        Hi Orenda,

        thank you very much for reading my essay and for your very kind, positive feedback. I am glad that you enjoyed the message and not just the story.

        a month later

        Hello Georgina,

        I posted an article giving some publicity to your piece:

        http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/searle20140705

        All the best!

        Rick Searle

          a month later

          Congratulations on the deserved recognition, Georgina! I guess you've proven your point that we don't gain the prize without some heavy seas here and there. :-)

          Tom

            Thank you for your congratulations Tom. Its very nice to get somewhere at last.

            Though I wish now that I had written a different essay. Less creative and more matter of fact and hard hitting, because I could have. I was concentrating on keeping it optimistic despite the dire world problems addressed and potential for Distopia.

            From the responses I received the story seems to have been too much of a distraction from the many up-coming problems and solutions outlined, and in some cases a deterrent to actually reading it, and seeing between the lines. To those who dislike the social engineered "Utopian" society I'd like to say if this is not the future you want then do something about it before it, or something like it, becomes a necessity for those wishing to survive mass extinction.

            2 years later

            Hi Paul, thanks for reading my essay and for your reflections on it.

            The sanctuaries are self sufficient and sustainable which means they do produce the food for the inhabitants. Food is not a business but life support. I have not explained how it is achieved but have implied that it is a society that is both technological and respectful of the "tree of life". Practices that are detrimental to the health of the food species will not be sustainable as stressed organisms are more prone to disease. Aquaponic systems where fish and vegetables are grown together seems good, there could also be algal fermentation and possibly artificial synthesis of foods that can not be grown, providing the same nutrition. I have mentioned green spaces and wildlife zones, I imagine also community food production areas. Many people find growing plants and being around plants stress relieving enjoyable activities.

            Things such as the sun rise an sun set and bird song are not unnecessary things that are not linked to survival but important for setting the circadian rhythms of the inhabitants, which is linked to health.The night workers will have personal control of the lighting in their personal space. The bird song helps reaffirm the societies connection to nature and all Earth life. It also combats stress which would be detrimental in a closed society. Maintaining physical and mental health of the population is a priority.

            Re. the household appliances of a modern home.The lifestyles will be very different. There will be limited manufacturing capabilities, but occasional exchange and barter with other sanctuaries with different resources and capabilities. Costs are energy use, use of resources, effects on health. There will not be stagnation because there are new inputs of intellectual and artistic creativity which is a part of the culture. Freed from endless consumerism people can enjoy simple pleasures, music, plays, stories, food, good company.

            Child rearing becomes a vocation to which people dedicate their lives.Giving up other opportunities and occupations. People choosing other pursuits can still participate in activities with the children, who are the sanctuaries children not exclusively the parent's children. By 25 people will have decided whether full time parenthood is their chosen life dedication. Sterilization will prevent accidental pregnancy and the tragedy of unwanted children and unwilling parents. I think it is unrealistic to expect the non breeding adults to remain celibate for life. If tragedy strikes as you suggest there would be no problem repopulating from the pool of breeders. It won't require all of the adults breeding. Do take a look at Professor Bartlett's videos on the exponential function.We can't yet leave the solar system and only have a choice of the Moon, Mars and possibly Jupiter's moons as potentially non lethal short term, with life support systems. They are pretty crumby as worlds go. I think it is irresponsible to preach that population growth is desirable because we can expand to other worlds.

            Thanks again for reading and commenting on the essay, it was good to hear your thoughts.

              6 days later

              Dear Georgina,

              I had forgotten that you said that you would put a comment on your paper page, so it took me awhile to remember that. You are welcome. I always like to work with those that I believe are somewhat ahead of the pack in understanding. Your sanctuaries are a good idea because they can separate man from the local environment and thus protect it from manmade pollution. At the same time it will require man to develop ways of producing things in such a way as to not generate that pollution because it would be obvious that it would be very detrimental to the functioning of the sanctuaries. I did notice that you were not completely separating the internal environment from the external environment in your examples because you mention air vents that would need to be protected and maintained. This connection would still allow a path for external contaminants to enter the sanctuaries and also could allow any internally generated contaminants to escape into the external environment. Either could potentially cause problems. I recommend complete separation of all systems otherwise there would be the temptation to just vent internally generated contaminants to the outside instead of doing the work to learn how to process them internally and when many sanctuaries are I place you would then still destroy the external environment. The technology to reprocess air and water systems is already developed and is already in use in the space station. It would be necessary that the society would be technological in order to develop all of the necessary life supporting systems needed in the sanctuary and to maintain them. This would mean that methods to mine, process minerals, fabricate finished materials, and then assemble them into complex structures such as computers, control mechanisms, and machines, etc. would need to be accomplished internally within the sanctuary. In order to continually improve sanctuary systems, it would be necessary to also support internal scientific research by building the necessary scientific apparatus structure to support ongoing experimentation. Once a new thing was developed to make life in the sanctuary better in some way it would be necessary to be able to gather and process the needed materials and make and distribute the device(s) internally. You are right that the crop production system would need to be designed to provide the best environment that is reasonably possible for the crops (whether animal or plant life) to maximize yield and obtain the best quality output. Although artificial synthesis of foods could be done at some time in the future, I would not recommend it until man fully understands the complete genetic structure of the life structure involved because detrimental effects could result by ingesting poorly structured foods. This is not likely to happen for some time to come. Properly oriented plants of certain kinds planted in the sanctuary could help maintain the proper oxygen content in the air and remove carbon dioxide, etc. A certain part of the crop growing structure could be set aside as a community garden area.

              I do understand the concept and there could also be other things, such as a video display in each personal living area that would be made to look like a window that could display an outdoor scene chosen by the resident. It could also include an audible sound track that would provide the sounds associated with the scene. This could be set to display a whole day's worth of the scene to include both daytime and nighttime display, as an example.

              People will still need to have clean clothes to wear and clean dishes to eat off of, etc., so devices to provide such things will still need to be provided to them in some form. Food storage and preparation devices and various types of furniture, etc., would also need to be provided and in addition water outlets and sewer inlets of the proper types would be necessary. The people would also need communication devices. It is true that any given sanctuary would not likely have reasonable access to all of the resources needed to make all things that it needed. Sanctuaries could be connected by underground tunnels so that there could be trade between them, so that all sanctuaries could get all of the materials needed. The most robust system would be to have each sanctuary able of producing all items required by the sanctuary from the raw materials and only need to import any raw materials that were not located near enough to the sanctuary to be locally mined, This way if a sanctuary were to be destroyed all that would be lost would be the source of any raw materials that were only available from the destroyed sanctuary. It would only be necessary to reestablish the mining facility at that location to restore full functionality to all remaining sanctuaries. The rest of the destroyed sanctuary could then be rebuilt as time permitted. In addition to an environment that would promote the cooperative sharing of new concepts, ideas, and theories, etc., it would be necessary to also include adequate facilities and the associated equipment to perform observational experiments to use as the basis to generate such new concepts, ideas, and theories and to check their validity, etc. These facilities would need to be changed as needed to continue to be able to do any new experiments that are required. Musical instruments, sets for plays, and the equipment to record them and the stories and to play them back would need to be produced in the sanctuaries. They should be produced as public events and broadcast for private viewing for those who preferred to enjoy them in their private area and also recorded for future playback as desired. Food should also be available both for public and private dining.

              The idea that those who raise children will be doing so as an occupation is good because it will allow them to devote adequate time to give the children the proper love, care, and education that is needed. If you are talking about a man and a woman joining together in marriage, which would provide the strongest loving family bond, all of the families would need to produce enough children to keep the population the same. If all sanctuary residents participated in having and raising children this would mean that each family would on the average have to produce between two and three children. If only one half of the families worked to produce children each of them would have to produce between four and five children. It might not be desirable to have families larger than that, although if neither of the parents worked outside of the home it could support as many as seven or eight children. This would require about one quarter of the residents to be involved in having and raising children. This is based on the general requirement to have at least one care giver per four children when the children are of ages between zero and six years old. After that you can get by with more children per care giver as the children can do more for themselves. You are right that you cannot expect people to not have sex if they are not of God. The percentage of the people that would be needed to restart the population after a catastrophe would depend on its severity. If only one hundred people survived it would likely take a greater percentage than if ten thousand survived, etc. I have not preached that population growth is desirable at all. I have only said that it is necessary to expand to other places in order to access the materials that are needed to replace those lost here on this planet due to entropy and to also provide the extra materials that will be necessary to advance science to new levels and to produce the new devices that are invented due to that scientific advancement. Those places may be pretty crumby compared to this planet, but they still contain resources that we need and can use here. Once a base that is equivalent to one of your sanctuaries is built on each of them, those living inside them would have an existence that would be comparable to those living in the sanctuaries here because in both cases they would be separated from the external environment. People have just jumped to the conclusion that I am for population increase because I am emphasizing the need for expansion and the scientific advancement that would accompany it because the expansion is needed to allow the continued access to needed material resources and the scientific advancement that would be generated by it would also allow more people to live in a given area. The increased population density would not likely support an uncontrolled population increase due to man's foolishness and inability to control his own body, however. Man's behavior would also need to be changed. The way to do it that would result in the least suffering by all involved would be if they came to God and God came into them and ruled over them, and caused them to act responsibly, but I would not bet on that. Other than that, any control would require actions that would cause great suffering for many people and would also result in many other negative consequences, but there are plenty of people in this world that would be more than willing to do such things, so there is no need for me to get involved in man's foolishness. I just give the best way to do it and let people do it or ignore it. It is not up to me to force people to do what is right, but only to let them know, so they can make the right decision, if they will, or suffer the consequences if they won't. They have to have the freedom to choose. God only wants those who want him.

              I saw your comment on the other page about my comment being too large to you, so I will try to make any new ones to you shorter, but this one is already done, so I will send it and hope you are not too offended by it.

              Sincerely,

              Paul

              Thank you Paul. I now understand that you were not talking about population growth being desirable. The story is a vehicle for raising awareness of a number of problems that need thinking about and hints at how they might be addressed, rather than being a plan as such. I have imagined it being a technological but largely post materialistic scenario. So there will not be the vast array of consumer goods you imagine, because of the limitations in production capability and because the values of the society are different. Human health; mental and physical, Social cohesion through shared values, respect for the tree of life; its diversity and adaptability, bio-mimicry, quality child nurturing, Knowledge, creativity, high levels of computer literacy and creation of virtual 'worlds'and such like are things that the imagined society values.

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