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  • Post #121

Eckard,

If you want some obvious simplistic 'direct connection' there are of course none, yet each innovations used is the ultimate consequence of the understanding of nature suggested by discrete field dynamics and it's implications. Many are asymmetries, some complex. I'll pick one; rig asymmetric 'twistability', connected to proper understanding of the M&M finding however distantly.

The finding wasn't 'nul' it was small. The DFM's progressive 'extinction' of light's old vector through the atmosphere (consistent with J.D Jackson) clearly predicts that the atmospheric scintillation and birefringence found (aberrations) would increase with altitude. The 2012 'Much ado..' essay explains how this is a 'rotation' of the optical axis away from the wavefront normal. All evidence supports this revolutionary hypothesis!

The implication is that as height increased towards the HST to apparent position of stars changes, moving 'back' wrt Earth's orbital path. That finally derives 'Stellar Aberration' free of conserved 'ballistic' photons! Dayton Miller found the 'anomalous' change at various heights up Mount Wilson, never explained, but exactly as the DFM now predicts. Note the SPEED as well as direction changes due to the increasing effect of medium refractive index 'n' (more interactions).

Now imagine a tower with sensors top and bottom. The angle at the top is different to that at the bottom. There will then be an apparent 'twist' with altitude. Now also add DF Dynamics; If the tower is in a different inertial rest frame (it's moving laterally). There will than be an ADDITIONAL 'twist' of vector due to the relative v of the systems. That effect works both with moving towers and moving media (called 'wind' in the ground rest frame). That gives a complex tortional dynamic with a number of additive variables (i.e. the tower relative v and direction).

Now that complex tortional dynamic is directly applicable to the relationship between the air itself and the tower, with additional elements of non vertical 'wind' components and air density changes with both altitude and temperature. Now substitute a 60ft yacht mast for the tower and solve for any relative vector. Clearly that's complex (though much helped by the sensitive masthead instruments race yachts carry - Google B&G) so I'll skip to the bottom line;

A set of sails has a natural 'twist', equal on each tack (min ~35 degrees each side of the wind direction). For optimum setting and boatspeed this needs to be significantly DIFFERENT on each tack, and vary with six other variables. The basic finding has been confirmed empirically and is well known by top yachtsmen, but is poorly understood, and only allowed for by guesswork, looking at little woollen 'tell tales' on the sail! and changing sheet tensions and other setting on EACH tack ('trimming') which all takes time. Understanding the dynamics allowed the 'standing' rig to be set up in such a way as to do most of the job automatically not only makes the boat faster but allows the trimmer to focus on his job, which is faster still in getting back up to speed after each tack.

That belies current assumptions and is dismissed by the 'establishment', yet it can average a ~1/4 boatlength difference on every tack. With say 100 tacks that 25 lengths is often alone the difference between 1st and off the podium.

Well you did ask! And you still often lack trust so make false assumptions if not spelt out. Just ask if anything needs clarifying. (I did also do a paper on the multiple inertial frames involved if you'd like a link).

Best wishes

Peter

Jason Mark Wolfe replied on Jul. 2, 2014 @ 22:28 GMT

"It really bugs me that I can't find any atheists to defend their beliefs. The arguments I've been making on other websites are like ambushes. It's kind of fun to point out that the best interpretation of wave-functions is that they exist."

Do Ghosts Exist?

Science begins its universe with a set of supernatural axioms just like religion begins its universe and so science and religion do have the common basic need for belief. Science begins with simple beliefs called axioms that describe the universe as the way that it is while religion feels it necessary to further embellish those beliefs with ever more elaborate beliefs in supernatural agents like ghosts.

Science addresses questions without answers by calling them axioms. Why is the universe the way that it it? Why is matter the way that it is? Why is time the way that it is? Why is action the way that it is?

Religion invariably assigns any number of supernatural agents to answer questions that are fundamentally unanswerable. Since there are no unique answers to questions about supernatural agents, supernatural agents are not very useful for science. Axioms, however, are a very necessary starting point for any universe.

People report seeing or otherwise sensing supernatural agents all of the time and people dream about supernatural agents and places as well. The dreams that people have when they are unconscious and near death have been especially told and retold as some kind of evidence of supernatural agents. Fine.

Our senses are subject to a large variety of illusions, delusions, hallucinations, dreams, trances, and so on. We have a variety of ways of checking our reality, but there is a fundamental dualism between what we imagine the world to be in our minds and what the world actually is that contacts our senses. Science helps many of us to discover the world as it is while religion dreams up supernatural agents who are then who determine why the world is as it is.

Personally I do like to personify matter and time as mother nature and father time and so really do not count myself as an atheist. Belief in supernatural axioms is just as important in science as it is for all of our reality.

    Pete,

    Implication; by definition is not a direct correlation. And while citing numerous possible implications of applicability might serve to increase interest in any body of work, it can also confuse the reader's comprehension of the central premise. It is not a matter of trust but rather one of presentation.

    A friend made a gift to me of Peter Galison's "Empires of Time - Einstein's Clocks, Poincare's Maps" 2001 W.W.Norton & Co.,Inc. which is a well researched historical treatment of the developing thinking that lead to the theories of Relativity, and which demonstrates how firmly rooted that philosophical movement was in the very practical industrial age. Far from being a bored patent clerk with his head in the clouds, Einstein was very much in his element at the Patent Office, and his miracle year papers are markedly influenced by the practicalities of patent qualification. In such, reference to implication to other work is a disqualification, and Einstein's success in presenting his theoretical works is arguably due in part to his restricting his arguments to only that which was unique. Keep in mind, everyone with enough knowledge to digest your DFM theory will already have the baggage of their own preferred methodology and reference systematics, they will draw their own implications if your central premise is concisely presented to stand on it's own. I would recommend Galison's history lesson to any aspiring author of scientific papers.

    - 30 - ed

    Peter Jackson wrote on Jun. 18, 2014 @ 10:47 GMT

    "Is it NOT 'odd'!? Even to Bell it's "unprofessionally vague and ambiguous" he continued; "Professional theoretical physicists ought to be able to do better." (beables.. p173) I think he was rightly concerned about the "intrinsic ambiguity in principle" and the "complacency" from familiarity with the ancient myths some now believe is all there can be."

    in reply to

    Steve Agnew wrote on Jun. 18, 2014 @ 03:14 GMT

    "It is very interesting to me when quantum theory is called odd by a quantum theorist.

    •COLIN STUART • Jun 17, 2014• "Quantum theory is one of the most successful frameworks in science. But it is also decidedly odd. Physicists cannot use the theory to calculate the precise outcomes of quantum experiments before they have been performed, for instance; they can only work out the probabilities of getting a certain result."

    That statement naturally means that there is another reality that is not odd and where there are deterministic futures for all objects. In other words, the author has built in an implicit strawman of gravity action as the normal, intuitive reality."

    Gravity action is very odd.

    While we accept gravity action as the common and intuitive basis for our deterministic and macroscopic reality, it is the probabilities of quantum action and its coherence and exchange that allow us to calculate quantum action throughout the universe. Quantum action works quite well everywhere except in the various gravitational oddities.

    That is, quantum action works well until we get to the very odd nature of gravity action. There is so much odd about gravity action that it is hard to know where to begin. First of all, gravity is a continuum force and so results in singularities at the center of every particle of matter. Science normally just ignores gravity action at these places.

    When matter accretions grow large enough, the singularity is called a black hole. The nature of matter in a black hole is beyond knowing. There is no time in a black hole and so there is no quantum action. Even though there is spatial dimension to a black hole, we cannot apply quantum action without time. This is very odd.

    One of the fundamental characteristics of quantum action is in the exchange of identical particles, and exchange force stabilizes particles beyond charge and allows particles to coexist in space and time. Yet gravity action does not seem to have any exchange forces and gravity action does not allow identical particles to coexist in space and time.

    While the beamsplitter is a fundamental quantum device that prepares coherent states of both light and matter, there is no such thing as a gravitational beamsplitter and therefore no way to prepare coherent gravitational matter. All matter shows the properties of amplitude and phase and yet gravity action does not seem to show quantum coherence. And then there are the oddities of all this dark matter and dark energy, the big bang oddities, and so on.

    Thus, gravity action is very odd.

    Physicists like Hawkings can figure out the laws of nature, but they can't create laws of nature, they can't create physics constants or change them. Based on this were supposed to believe that God does not exist? Not a very convincing argument.

    Lawrence,

    "I would be genuinely surprised if these turn out to produce the inequality violations."

    Inequality Violations produced Classicaly.

    Did you read this as well as the article? How's your geometry? The model completes the missing link Bell identifies on p.146, by using the actual experimental data not that modified to match the theoretical expectation.

    Was it a genuine surprise if you did read it? or can you falsify any of it it?

    Thanks Best wishes

    Peter

    It is not an argument, it is a belief. You can believe in a universe that is the way that it is, or you can believe in mother nature and father time like I do, or you can believe in whatever supernatural agents you want to believe in. Belief is just the starting point for any universe including that of science.

    Apologists like Augustine of Hippo can create elaborate doctrines of belief like the trinity, but a trimal of supernatural agents is not a convincing argument for science. However, when science creates a trimal belief composed of two quarks and a gluon, we get true magic. From this belief, the standard model follows.

    Physicists don't know how to change the laws of physics. That is a fact.

    Physicists don't know how to change the physics constants. That is a fact.

    Physicists don't know how to create consciousness. That is a fact.

    Physicists cannot figure which interpretation of quantum mechanics makes the most sense. That is a fact.

    The down side of my interpretation, that Wave-functions exist, is that it suggest that spirits can exist.

    But the upside of a "wave-functions exist" interpretation is that it tells us that the laws of physics and the physics constants are being implemented by something that we can't see.

    Physicists believe in the laws of physics. That is a fact.

    Physicists believe in the physics constants. That is a fact.

    Physicists believe in consciousness. That is a fact.

    Physicists argue about lots of issues including which interpretation of quantum mechanics makes the most sense. That is a fact.

    Some physicists do believe in supernatural agents and call them multiverses and black holes. You evidently believe in supernatural agents as well but call them spirits instead.

    There are many, many things in this universe that we cannot see or sense. Neutrinos, for example, can only be indirectly measured just as quarks and higg's bosons and dark matter and dark energy and black holes...the list of stuff that we cannot see goes way beyond wavefunctions.

    If I were you, I would pick on consciousness more than wavefunctions for a supernatural agent of some sort. Until science figures out consciousness, which they will eventually, consciousness is an open game. A safer bet would be multiverses, though. You can easily define any supernatural agent as an alternate universe of some sort. Then again, black holes are the outlaws of our universe where literally anything goes, so a black hole can easily be a supernatural agent as well.

    You see, you can believe just about anything that you want to believe and still survive as long as you don't walk into traffic or jump off of cliffs, that is.

    Peter,

    Don't you run us a rig? The topic has been: Why quantum? Your answer to all foundational questions is always DFM. If I recall correctly (IIrc) you introduced D for digital, M for modulation, and F for frequency or for field (?). FM in the sense of frequency modulation is familiar to me. It encodes a signal by varying the instantaneous frequency of a carrier wave. DF in the sense of digital field would remind me of finite element methods (FEM). In all, your lack of modesty reminds me of Archimedes Plutonium.

    Eckard

    Anyway, here is a video of a ghost.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ncI4zBG0nc

    Now can you show me a video of another universe?

    I still think that consciousness comes from Infinite Consciousness, also called God. God creates universes and then experiences them through souls. This whole atheistic idea of trying to get rid of God is misguided. Obviously there are souls. Obviously there is an afterlife because consciousness comes from God, not some stupid multi-world interpretation garbage with universes coming out of everyone's back side when they decide to fart. Honestly, I think that scientism and atheism are so incredibly misguided.

    Is this your best shot? Videos of ghosts? How many videos of multiverses do you want to see?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Qt-eGKa34M

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bATyoYzlObY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ds47ozzSrU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39qmbl7mpJQ

    ...

    Look, I can appreciate that you have a big thing about supernatural agents. Many people do and they do just fine in their lives. It just does not have much to do with science or with wavefunctions or neutrinos or quarks or black holes or whatever.

    Atually I believe very strongly in mother earth and father time, and in the matter time universe. Matter time is a very refreshing alternative to existing religion or mainstream science. Matter time seems so much nicer than the elaborate ancient stories about supernatural agents that many people suppose.

    And honestly, I could have done a much better ghost video than the one you pointed to. If you go frame to frame, you will see my point.

    Jason,

    The problem with the premise of God is that it proposes an ideal, in this case, moral, intellectual and judgmental, as an absolute. The absolute would be a universal state, necessarily lacking distinguishing features, while intelligence and its various qualifications and qualities, are very much about distinctions.

    A spiritual absolute would logically be the essence of awareness from which life rises, not an ideal form from which it fell. We like to think there is some father figure out there, but we are the apex of that manifestation of the spirit. Quite literally, the point of the spear. The tightest of the feedback loop.

    Yes, science is nowhere close to explaining consciousness and usually what it does with properties it can't explain, is to declare them an axiom and move on. There are those of a reductionistic and materialistic bent who believe consciousness is emergent from a pre-conscious biology, but they really can't prove all biology doesn't possess some elemental sense of awareness and we are simply a complex feedback loop of that primal state.

    Personally I've had enough weird things happen to me, but if I was to describe my religious inclinations, it would be more pantheistic, than monotheistic. As I described in the above post, Jul. 3, 02:48, I think we, especially in the west, are way too object oriented and a singular God is mostly a consequence of that.

    Steve made a comment about the trinity, but if you consider the process by which it came to be and why the Greeks used it as a replacement for the year king, it really is an analogy for past, present and future. One of the really big problems with monotheism and which Jesus attempted to do, is that it doesn't have a natural reset button. There is no real way for the old God to die and a new one to be born and consequently way too much bad code builds up in the traditions. Just look at the three main branches of monotheism and tell me they don't have problems with not being able to loosen up a little bit.

    Steve,

    I would just like to point out black holes are nonsense as well. It's a vortex. What energy doesn't get radiated away, as it spins ever tighter, gets shot out the poles!! As usual, they are only looking at half the equation, obviously the condensing/reductionistic side. What is at the center is just the eye of the storm. That's why the 'physics breaks down.'

    Hi John,

    I actually think that spirits are behind some of the phenomena behind religions. A poltergeist here, some ghostly knowledge there, and suddenly it looks like God is helping you.

    Hi Steve,

    I'll tell you what. When I leave this world, I will personally haunt the physics community as a poltergeist.

    Jason,

    We live in an animate world, it's just that humanity tries to sterilize it. The most animate part is our own imagination.

    Jason,

    And by this, I don't mean we are all just making up everything which can't be explained in terms of physical objects bouncing off one another, When my wife died, it was a serious rip in the fabric of Karma, as the people involved would admit, but that has to do with the fact we are all part of some larger psyche and the actions of it create and define what we are. Whirlpools and waves and eddies and other such thermodynamic processes function at that level as well.

    John,

    "We live in an animate world, it's just that humanity tries to sterilize it. The most animate part is our own imagination. "

    Amen. I'm sorry to hear about your wife. It does rip a hole in ones heart.

    Jason,

    She was very much the center of her own community.

    She was hit while getting the mail. Then as we are all around her house(we were separated, but shared raising the daughter), two cars collided out front and knocked a pole over and there were wires all over the place. I always called her "Hurricane Frances" and then it happened that Hurricane Sandy came through and delayed the funeral for two days, as well as made the weather quite interesting. My phone decided to die and so I had to use hers for a few days, which created some consternation for those seeing her name on caller id. I had to take over her house and riding business for a few months, to get things straight. There was very much the sense that she was not pleased.

    It was just one of those things.

    Regards,

    John

    Eckard,

    It seems in nature things 'are what they are'. The discrete and helical nature of field dynamics has proved a universal truth. I can't see it's 'immodest' to identify truths or applications. The helical dynamic applies to the case of a yacht rig and recognising that has made the boat detectably faster.

    I have proved that experimentally beyond any doubt, demonstrating that those who dismiss the theory as nonsense are wrong. Now you have joined them. Somehow my surprise at mankind's analytical limitations reduces all the time. The troglodytes insist it's my "genius as a yachtsman" that makes it always win. it's me insisting it is NOT, which is surely the diametric opposite to 'immodesty!!' Are you now joining them? or can you see the validity of the dynamic.

    The 'velocity gradient' of wind is well understood, as due to surface drag. The relative 'apparent wind' vector effect, different on each tack, is also well known, but less well understood. Discrete field dynamics directly rationalises the effect; The wind at each altitude is in a slightly different 'inertial frame' so from a single observer rest frame (the mast) the direction 'measured' is 'rotated' with altitude. Do you suggest that doesn't make sense??

    Have you yet checked out Dayton Millers Mount Wilson findings? (ins 1933 paper) (see also quotes below) Do you challenge them? Or have another explanation?

    Best wishes

    Peter

    "the indicated effect was not zero; the sensitivity of the apparatus was such that the conclusion, published in 1887, stated that the observed relative motion of the earth and aether did not exceed one-fourth of the Earth's orbital velocity. This is quite different from a null effect now so frequently imputed to this experiment by the writers on Relativity.

    Miller showed that there is a systematic effect in the original M-M data indicating a speed of the Earth relative to the Aether of 8.8 km/s for the noon observations and 8.0 km/s for the evening observations. He believed that the aether was entrained ("dragged along") by the earth.' (yet he couldn't explain the altitude deviations).聽

    After years of careful experimentation, Miller indeed found a systematic deviation from the null result predicted by special relativity, which greatly embarrassed Einstein and his followers. Einstein tried to explain it away as an artifact of temperature variation, but Miller had taken great care to avoid precisely that kind of error. Miller told the Cleveland聽Plain Dealer聽on January 27, 1926,

    "The trouble with Professor Einstein is that he knows nothing about my results. ... He ought to give me credit for knowing that temperature differences would affect the results. He wrote to me in November suggesting this. I am not so simple as to make no allowance for temperature."