Hi Philip,

Last essay contest I had a system that created QM from just pure random numbers" reality is a mathematical structure". This year's essay has much more astonishing results and I have put in the links (at the end of the sections) to the JavaScripts program, which I am sure you have no problem with. Although I know you are a busy man.

Philip, I am relying on you since I don't seem to have too many customers here. It is ironic that often people say "show me the math" and cut the word salad, and now when I show it, they don't want to bother and it seems like they are saying "bring on the word salad"!

Essay

Thanks and good luck.

Dear Philip,

Your statement, 'SUSY is a natural consequence of string theory and would account for fine-tuning of the Higgs mechanism', indicates the imperativeness for the string theory to be modified. Thus we may think of another set of principles with strings, in that, field with matter is ascribed as single unit of eigen-rotational string-segment. Thus the Univacuum and the Multiplicity of the vacuum, that are descriptive with Space time foam and Spin-foams by String Vaccuua, is differently interpreted with an alternative paradigm of Universe; that is used for a comparative analysis in my essay, ' Before the Primordial Geometric origin: The Mysterious connection between Physics and Mathematics'. Hope you may enjoy in reading that.

With best wishes,

Jayakar

Dear Philip,

Thank you for your essay, excellent as always, stimulating reflection. But it is not about praising. Let us start a discussion.

I do not agree with your interpretation of Tegmark's Mathematical Universe Hypothesis... You argue that "such ideas are about concepts beyond our ordinary experience for which we do not have predefined words. To think about them we can only use metaphors with meaning that we understand within our own limits." Really the MUH is about to find the mathematical structure (or structures) isomorphic to the world we observe (the empirical domain) and finding a description (language) expressible in a form that is well-defined also according to non-human sentient entities (say aliens or future supercomputers) that lack the common understanding of concepts that we humans have evolved. In MUH not all mathematical structures exist as physical reality. Only these that we can embrace with our empirical domain.

If we want to know the geometrical structures describing the observed reality we cannot invent them. We can only discover what geometries are possible in 3+1 dimensional spacetime. With helping hand of Perelman, that proved the geometrization conjecture in 2003, we know for sure all geometries that are possible in this case. Starting from the conjecture we do not need more than these (complicated enough) structures to describe all observed reality. So I conclude that dimensions higher than observed 3+1 are INVENTED not DISCOVERED.

I argue that we can find "connections between subjects that had previously seemed unrelated". I mean Thurston geometries in connection with matter and fundamental interactions. So I have coined the related name: Geometrical Universe Hypothesis. Thanks to the correspondence rule, that is a real paradigm shift, the geometrization conjecture becomes the first theorem in physics. Moreover it promises universality. There is naturally a metric associated with each Thurston geometry. Let us remember that Perelman proved the geometrization conjecture using Ricci flow with surgery. The constant curvature geometries (S3, H3, E3) arise as steady states of the Ricci flow, the other five geometries arise naturally where the dynamics of the Ricci flow is more complicated and where topological changes (like neck pinching or surgery) happen. Thurston geometries with Ricci flow and surgery make the spacetime devoid of singularities and we naturally get the symmetries.

Do we need new data or new experiments to find details of GUH? Only to confirm its predictive power concerning that five more exotic geometrical structures that remain to be uncovered in nature.

Maybe GUH is too good to be true? Or maybe it seems too simple to be acceptable (simple if one can comprehend the Perelman's proof!)? In details this is really complicated and at the moment it is only an sketch. The examples of that complexity you can find in Torsten Asselmayer-Maluga's publications e.g. "How to include fermions into General relativity by exotic smoothness" http://arxiv.org/abs/1502.02087

There are also publications on how the Ricci flow can pass through singularities and continue on a new manifold! E.g. The Kahler-Ricci flow through singularities, Jian Song, Gang Tian, http://arxiv.org/abs/0909.4898v1

The final question: Is there any possibility to get an experimental confirmation of the statement that space and time are emergent? You confirmed that no one knows from what and Matrix-theory, the amplituhedron and LQG are purely theoretical works.

If you are interested you can find details of GUH in my essay.

Sorry for my excessive self-confidence. I would really appreciate your criticism. Thank you.

Jacek

    Hello Philip

    I was able to read your essay despite the fact that most of the concepts you deal with either in physics or mathematics were too technical or specialized for me to understand the points you are making. Is it possible to describe what you mean by universality in a simple way or by analogy?

    Nevertheless the essay is lucid and well-written and I read it through. It left me with the hope or rather belief that beyond all the disparate phenomena and complicated theories there is a breathtakingly simple unity.

    That is what I have argued in this year's essay, and this time did not have the aid of the elephant as I too did in a past essay, but of the amazingly 'smart' slime mold that can solve mazes. Amazing world!

    Best wishes

    Vladimir

      Vladimir, these issues are technically difficult for everybody and we can only move forward by pulling together and throwing in good ideas. I am glad to see you back to do that again. I too find the subjects difficult so I pick out the bits I understand and try to see some of the picture take shape from those.

      Thanks for your comments, I will probably be nicking your slime mould idea next time.

      Jacel, thanks for your interesting points. We aeem to take different philosophical views. You prefer geometry and I prefer algebra for one thing. Of course I cannot say that I am right and you are wrong. That remains to be seen, or perhaps the truth will be neither or both. All we can do is each take our ideas to their conclusions and see which result fits nature.

      "Is there any possibility to get an experimental confirmation of the statement that space and time are emergent? "

      That could only be done directly by an experiment so cataclismic that it tears space and time apart. However, indirectly we can find the right TOE and use other more doable experiments to check it. The answer will then come indirectly from that TOE. We will never be totally sure that the TOE is completely correct unless we tests everything it can predict including things like the emergence of space and time, but I hope that once we have the answer it will be something sufficiently convincing.

      Thank you Philip for the response.

      I agree that we will never be totally sure that the theory is completely correct unless we test everything it can predict. However I would not include the emergence of space and time (this just seems to me too speculative). I guess that if we uncovered in nature these five exotic Riemannian manifolds: S2 テ-- R, H2 テ-- R, SL(2, R), Nil and Solv geometry, it would be convincing enough that the geometrization conjecture is the first physical theorem. And the theorem we cannot falsify. But, apparently, at the moment we have to wait. But not so long. As I have mentioned, Torsten Asselmayer-Maluga's works are my hope to show the direction for future experiments. He now works on NIL, SOLV and SL2.

      Best,

      Jacek

      Dear Dr. Gibbs,

      I think my earlier post has gone unnoticed because somebody inadvertently posted a new comment as a reply to my post. So excuse me, I am posting it again, especially because I claim myself to be an independent researcher and find solace in the free-for-all 'VIXRA'. I express my sincere thanks to you for providing an asylum for people like me.

      The first essay I read was yours. Instantly, I identified you as a 'mathematicalist' trying to impose the rule of mathematics in the domain of physics. The way you have written, however, is impressive that any one reluctant will jump into the 'mathematicalist' wagon. That I think is the beauty of the mathematics-oriented thinking coming from somebody who knows the intricacies of both mathematics and physics.

      Your statement "geometry is an angel and algebra is a demon .......... the signs are that the devil rules at the deepest levels of existence" is thought provoking. Can I say that the rules of mathematics are essentially algebraic, and geometry just represents its emergent structures. Then the universality of mathematics is in its rules, not in its structures. Regarding the question, whether mathematics is invented or discovered, I think the rules are discovered, but the structures are invented. For example, in chess the properties of the pieces are invented, but the emergence follows mathematical rules and the overall structure of the game is thus invented. Starting with another set of arbitrary properties, you will obtain a different structure.

      Again I would like to quote another statement "the theory you get by recursively iterating quantisation should be unique" . Without referring to existing Quantum Mechanics, your statement can be construed to be implying that fundamental particles, just because they are quanta, may be obeying a unique law, which is universal. Does it simply mean that starting from qunatised entities, you cannot have an infinite number of emergent structures?

      The 'physicalist' idea that I propose in my essay is this: physics decides the properties, mathematics decides the rules. For the given properties, mathematics decides the emergent structures; for that emergent structures, physics again decides the emergent properties, and so on. Thus, the equations are mathematical, but the variables are physical. Starting from a finite number of variables having finite properties, the number of variables will soon come to the minimum that further emergent structures are impossible. That final structure is the physical world that we observe.

      Somewhere above, you have stated that 'physics emerges from mathematics'. This I think tantamount to saying that 'the physical world emerges from mathematics'. Or, given the basic properties of matter, mathematics decides the final emergent structure. That way, I will have to call you a physicalist. Kindly go through my essay: A physicalist interpretation of the relation between Physics and Mathematics. I would be awaiting for your comments.

        Hi Philip,

        I still wait for your next replies to my previous message, especially about the Many-worlds interpretation.

        Recently I wrote this general overview of how I see things going in this contest, with a list of essays I found best. I also included there a list of essays criticizing the mathematical universe hypothesis which you defend. So I look forward to your comments on these essays.

        I also included some not so rejoicing stuff there. I am sorry for this and I wish I did not have to do that, but when I see a nonsense growing too big I cannot go on very long as if it did not exist. So I am also curious to have your view on that. Thanks for your understanding.

          Ho Jose, I am sorry for not replying earlier. I was busy due to unrelated events and am now back.

          I think your assessment of my position is fair and correct. I see mathematics as the realm of logical possibilities and physics as the realisation of those possibilties. From this point of view it obviously makes sense to start with the possibilities and then move on to the realisation.

          However, this is just one philosophical position of many and I always recognise that other ways of looking at it can be equally valid. The test of meta-physical ideas is how they lead to more physical theories and from there to experiment. I have described in my essay how I related my philosophy to physics via multiple quantisation, algebraic geometry etc. It will be a long time before we know how it all pans out.

          The multiple quantisation idea has been around for a while. I speculatd about the uniqueness of iterated quantisation a few years back at http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/9603165 My view of that has not changed but it has developed. I now think that the structure this gives us has to be seen as a system of meta-laws rather than a specific physical theory inside a particular geometry like our spacetime that we can relate to directly through experiment. Physics as we know it is just one solution of these meta-laws. In act you have to go through a cascade of refined solutions to get to the end. So in one sense the end-result of iterated quantisation is unique but the physical theory is not. Perhaps you can realate this to your way of seeing things.

          I look forward to reading your essay

          Hi Sylvain, it is a nice idea to try and label all the essays with different isms (as on your linked page) so long as you do not take it too seriously.

          I think you may also be trying to take the rating too seriously. In my post at the top I say the rating and prizes don't matter to me. What I have found each time is that I start near the top, then later I drop down. You see there are just as many people who hate viXra as people who love it but they arrive later :-)

          The reason I keep coming back to the contest is that it is good to formulate thoughts and get some feedback. The FQXi essay contests are very good for that.

          I want to respond to some of the unanswered questions here as follows.

          I see mathematics as something that comes before physics but I don't see mathematics as a platonic realm. Mathematics is just the study of logical possibilities and our physical experience is just a stream of those logical possibilities being played out. We don't need to explain existence and reality any more than that. Our intuition may demand a causal and structural explanation for why it all happens but that is just part of our psychological makeup and has no answer. However, we do need to explain why the laws of physics follow certain mathematical rules.

          When people started doing mathematics they were interested in counting and measurement. There was no mystery about why the mathematics was effective in physics, because it was derived from it. But then mathematicians saw interesting logical structures that did not have obvious applications, such as prime numbers. Mathematics took on a life of its own.

          Logical possibilities include stuff that is very interesting to mathematicians and stuff that is less interesting. The interesting stuff is characterised by its universality. It is applicable to a range of problems. Mathematicians are delighted when something they formulated for one problem turns out to be useful for another. They get a sense that those logical structures are discovered while others are merely invented. This is what distinguishes pure mathematics from other intellectual endeavours such as art and literature where we consider things to be created rather than discovered. All these things are logical possibilities but the mathematically interesting structures are more universal. They would probably be discovered by an alien race of mathematicians no matter what point they started from.

          Already there seems to be some mysteriousness about this universality. Why is it there? Some people are not convinced. They see no mystery yet, so let's look further.

          As pure mathematicians continued to study these objects for their own sake without any remaining interest in physics they went beyond the naturally occurring logical structures. They discovered the mathematics of complex numbers, non-Euclidean geometry and higher dimensional spaces. They did not expect these things to be useful to physicists but later they were. Already the unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics seemed mysterious to Wigner, but some people still shrugged their shoulders. They can say that these things were still inspired by physical ideas originally or that the universe is obviously going to be mathematical so of course these things are going to be useful.

          For me the real clincher came when string theory was used to prove the monstrous moonshine conjectures. These were mysterious problems connecting areas of number theory and algebraic geometry that nobody would have expected to be connected to the real world. String theory has not yet been shown to be real physics but it was certainly discovered by physicists generalising the framework of quantum field theory with the goal of forming new physical theories. The distance across mathematics spanned by string theory and monstrous moonshine could not have been greater, and yet they turned out to be deeply connected in an unavoidable way.

          This is no longer just a simple matter of the unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics in physics. It is also about the unreasonable effectiveness of physics in mathematics. The mystery is deep and cannot be shrugged off. It demands an explanation.

          In my opinion, that explanation will come from a better understanding of universality and how it emerges in complex systems. It must be a self-organised structure embedded in the complex system of logical possibilities and their interrelations. It may be characterised by scale-free networks, self-similar fractal structures, path integrals over the grand ensemble of algorithms, iterated quantisation, n-category theory, symmetries etc. Our experience then unfolds according to laws of physics that form as a hierarchy of solutions derived from these universal systems. That is how our universe is put together and it explains the mysterious links that bind mathematics and physics together because this universality is ultimately what both mathematicians and physicists are drawn towards for different reasons.

          Hi Philip,

          I agree with Ken Seto about the need for concentrating more on physical models. I have witnessed their potential in my own research and theory (TOEBI). Also, don't be too judgemental towards people who think that the contemporary physics has gone into woods for a long time ;-) I'm one of those people.

          Anyway, you are a solid performer as usually, thanks for your essay! Check out my essay, it's a good example of a more physical theory.

            Do you think that there is an underlying physical, concrete, entities which are the building blocks of our universe? For example photons, electrons... concrete or not? Lets forget our contemporary theories about them, clean table view and your opinion.

            • [deleted]

            Kimmo, that's an interesting question from the point of view of universality which I did not have space to cover in the essay, so thanks for asking it.

            The idea of universality is that the laws of physics emerge from an ensemble of different complex systems. Because of this they dont tend to have unique best descriptions. Take as an example the concept of universal computing as defined by Turing. He used a Turing machine but he could equally well have used something else like any programming language. You can show that the different possible definitions are equivalent. The concept of universal computing is unique and would be classed as something that mathematicians discovered, yet the Turing machine is invented and not special or unique.

            If the laws of physics emerge from a principle of universality I expect the same thing to happen. I dont think reductionism will lead to a unique end point with a fundamental set of building blocks such as parrticles or strings. Instead there will be multiple ways of ariving at the laws of physics via definitions, none of which will be obviously the best or simplest or right way to go.

            We already see this in some (still speculative) theories of physics such as elecromagnetic duality. In this case you can regard electrically particles particles and fields as fundamental and particles with magnetic charges are derived or composite, but you can also start from a descritpion where the magentic fields are fundamental and the electric fields are derived

            Perhaps you are trying to amke a distinction between theories based on abstract mathematical ideas and theories based on concrete physical ideas? I dont see how there can be such a disinction. How do you define concrete?

            How do you define concrete?

            Good question... for example something having the boundary for an impenetrable volume.

            I dont think any mainstream physicist would be looking at theories of concrete objects in that sense, but thank goodness we have people outside the mainstream to fill the void.

            Hi Philip,

            Sorry for my last post ,it was cryptic and done in a hurry. In this one I will elaborate .

            I was trying to dig up some concrete material on your random graphs and random matrices and how they lead to Necklace algebra and symmetries. That is because as I explained very very briefly that my system which is based on simulation is indeed nothing but a Buffon's needle type, something like two needles which are larger than the gap(the space between the needles).

            As you well know Buffon's needle is a geometric probability problem which is well connected to integral geometry which is the theory of measures on a geometrical space invariant under the symmetry group of that space.

            So my theory and your theory and the theory of particles in standard physics are connected.

            Can you post some links to your materials, and what do you think about my way of thinking of linking all these ideas. I know I am asking for too much effort on your part, but I need some clear help in the direction which I will be taking to put my system in a more formal incarnation. But of course I understand if you cannot oblige.

            Essay

            P.S. Some info about the setup of distance in the program

            Thanks and good luck.Attachment #1: 1_dist.png

              Just a note

              I can't find any mathematical write ups on you material , they are too general, so DO you have more concrete material. Thanks