Dear George,

I greatly enjoyed your essay. I am curious whether or not you think something like the philosopher John Leslie's "Goodness" or Robert Nozick's "fecundity" would fill the hole?

http://utopiaordystopia.com/2014/05/04/why-does-the-world-exist-and-other-dangerous-questions-for-insomniacs/

Please take the time to check out and vote on my essay for this contest.

http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/2391

All the best!

Rick Searle

    Dear George you say "much obliged"

    I can truly say "for nothing" !

    Best,

    Vladimir

    Marc - Thanks for your very detailed review and comments!

    Actually, the "Voice" is required for both stage 1 and for stage 2 which, as discussed with T.Bolognesi above has dual features - the physical Cosmos and Intentionality. The Voice and the Void are self-existent, "uncreated" - not dissimilar from AI (Absolute Infinity). They are also self-reflective.

    I'm not sure I follow the "informational" part of your thesis. In my view, the Voice and the AI, like the set of all sets, is going to contain all information, including all information about itself. Of course, that is quite a trick to contemplate with our very finite minds --- so it falls into the category of mythology.

    Regards - George

    Rick - Thanks for the references, I will have to look them up. I've also left a comment on your essay (which I thought was marvelous, but the way).

    Regards - George Gantz

    Hi George,

    I was wondering if you thought that Zeno's paradox could be cleared up if the universe were proven to be finite (and discrete) in both time and space? I actually don't think this finite view of the universe is too far off what is accepted by modern physics due to ideas such as the Planck Scale and Quantization. From this perspective, (continuous) movement may still be considered to be an illusion, much like the images in a movie never "move", they only discretely change positions (states) in each subsequent frame of the movie. This relates to my Digital Physics movie essay if you'd like to take a look at that.

    Thanks,

    Jon

      Jon - Thanks for the comment! Zeno's paradox was resolved by Aristotle, whose solution works whether space is discrete or continuous. A fully discrete and finite universe solves many issues (within the physical universe the difficulties with infinities disappear) and is a hypothesis I am comfortable with. However, it does not answer a number of questions. For example, if time is finite, there is a beginning point, and an ending point. - What is before and after, and what caused things to start? And, even if the universe is finite, math is not, nor are the implications of recursion or self-reflection and consciousness.

      I conclude the Hole at the Center remains even in a finite universe!

      Regards - George

      George, very creative essay and a nice sentiment about the whole. I liked the history of scientific philosophy and overall found your ideas interesting - I gave you a high rating, and thank you again for your kind comments. Your questions that you posted on my thread inspired me and you can see my answers there.

      Thanks again, Steve

        Some thoughts George..

        The film that first brought public attention to Arnold Schwarzenegger was called 'Stay Hungry' and the movie's theme pertains to the topic of your essay, as per my comments above. The title refers not only to the reduction of body fat, so you can better show off your muscles, as it also spoke to the ideal of remaining competitive, always striving to improve yourself, and so on. This is somewhat the Apollonian ideal or archetype, as well.

        But perhaps the same applies in the evolution of consciousness, where one must cultivate a hunger and thirst for knowledge - and stay hungry, maintaining an appetite for learning and knowing - in order to learn and grow in understanding. This would again make a hole at the center of creation an essential feature of reality, serving to bring transcendental qualities like those seen in creatures with self-awareness into being - which would otherwise lay dormant.

        More later,

        Jonathasn

          Thanks, Steven! Great exchanges on your essay which I will continue to follow.

          -George

          Jonathan -

          Exactly, thank you! Without "intentionality" (desire --- willing --- thirst for knowledge) there would be no consciousness. Without growth, there is no life. Without direction/purpose, there is no universe. Without self-reflection (and therefore consciousness), there are no distinctions --- and no existence.

          The Hole is indeed an essential feature of reality - as is the infinite Voice which is its reflection.

          Cheers - George

          Dear George,

          I like the idea to create your own creation myth without ignoring our knowledge about nature. I would lke to share a myth, that I like sometime to tell to my kids, that are still very young and got a new brother only recently.

          "At the beginning they have been in paradise. And they where naked and not ashamed. But then they ate from the tree of knowledge and could distinguish between true and false. Between good and bad."

          The myth seems to tell the difference between the simple cognition and the reflective cognition, which creates the separation of subject and object, of perception and acting. It creates the distance needed to comprehend the word objectively. With the loss of the ability to participate with world, with life.

          It is beautiful and sad to see my kids slowly leaving paradise.

          Best regards and thanks for your nice comment in my forum

          Luca

            Luca - Thanks for your comment! I have found stories to be the most powerful way of communicating with my own children and grandchildren.

            Relative to my creation myth, I'm not sure I would tell the story of the "human fall" in that way, but I agree with your basic points. In my view, the fall is the inevitable result of the duality in human perception that arises from self-consciousness. This duality is obvious in most children by the age of two! When we understand that we are each autonomous from the community of others into which we were born, we become able to act as intentional agents to benefit ourselves or to benefit others. Naturally we tend to elevate our own interests above others and lose touch with "the greater good" - the love of others.

            Love your children with all your heart and all your mind and guide them on the path of love and compassion. It is just as inherent in children as self-love, but needs to be nurtured. In time, perhaps, they, and all of us, will find that the greatest joy arises from service to others (not to ourselves).

            Regards - George

            7 days later

            Hi George--

            Your essay was a joy to read. I loved your lyrical touch. I now see why you took the time to read and comment on my essay. We approached infinity in complementary fashion. You chose to use infinity in a metaphysical way, which is perfectly excellent. My approach was simply to kick physical infinity off the physics island. I'd like to think that we are both right. I also loved your use of both "hole" and "whole" at the center of creation. Nicely done!

            In the small world category, we are both Stanford grads (me, '77) with Honors in Humanities. Only later did I go on to get degrees in physics (at other institutions).

            Best regards,

            Bill.

              Thanks, Bill--

              I share your skepticism about physical infinities. That may keep the physics from getting unglued, but hardly addresses the metaphysical question of how the physical got here (metaphorically speaking). Of course, infinity is big enough to be unruffled by any of our speculations.

              I enjoyed the HH program at Stanford (far more than my math major) and nearly headed into philosophy as a result - but the job prospects were slim. After graduation ('73) I did play in a rock band called "Trust" - ever hear us? - we played on campus quite a bit - but music did not offer much in the way of job prospects either.....

              Cheers - George

              5 days later

              Dear George,

              I think Newton was wrong about abstract gravity; Einstein was wrong about abstract space/time, and Hawking was wrong about the explosive capability of NOTHING.

              All I ask is that you give my essay WHY THE REAL UNIVERSE IS NOT MATHEMATICAL a fair reading and that you allow me to answer any objections you may leave in my comment box about it.

              Joe Fisher

                Hi Joe - I did read your essay but did not find it to offer a credible hypothesis. Given the number of very credible and interesting essays in the competition, I did not feel it appropriate to leave a comment, and I did not rate it.

                With sincere regards - George

                6 days later

                Hi George,

                very enjoyable and creative essay. I think your desire to provide optimism rather than despair is admirable.

                I wonder if, while digging ever down, looking for truth, and reaching a void, the meaning within all of the absolute relations of the elements of reality are discarded- and that is perhaps the dwelling of absolute truth and agape love. Not a voice in the void but omnipotent and omnipresent relation. Just food for thought.

                Good luck and kind regards, Georgina

                  George,

                  Time grows short, so I am revisiting essays I've read to assure I've rated them. I find that I rated yours on 3/8, rating it as one I could immediately relate to. I hope you get a chance to look at mine: http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/2345.

                  Jim

                  Thanks, Georgina -

                  Yes, of course, the whole is more than the sum of the parts. We discard all that is important when we reduce life, being, consciousness (and relations) to their physical manifestation - my essay is an attempt to bring that to the attention of those who are committed to the material and thereby left in the void.

                  And yes, I am an optimist, and a theist (albeit a skeptical one...) who believes the source of all creation is the love (intending for good) of omnipotent, omnipresent and infinite God which comes to us in forms (truths) of Divine Wisdom. Love clothed in truths manifest in each and all of our relations.

                  Regards - George