Re: Your reply that light speed = wavelength X frequency

and not distance traversed per unit time.

From my physics book...

What is wavelength?

Wavelength is distance between two successive waveforms.

What is frequency?

Frequency is number of waveforms generated per second.

Therefore Wavelength X Frequency = the distance the waveform moves in one second.

That is light speed is BOTH wavelength X frequency AND distance covered by waveform in one second.

I admit you may already have invested in or betted heavily on SR and it may now be difficult or too late in the day to beat a retreat.

All the best,

Akinbo

Thank you for reading my essay: mine is not courage, it is absolute disinterest in the voting mechanism, that permit me to completely freeing the imagination, and narrative.

It is interesting your essay, but I am not convinced that there is not inconsistence in some physical results.

It should create a physical system that reflect on itself, a system with a feedback to measure itself, to create contradiction: each measure of a system, that it is denied by the apparatus, and that it is used to measure the state; I am thinking two Schrodinger's cats, where the measure of the quantum death of the cat destroy the hydrocyanic poison of the other cat, and the life of the cat activate the hydrocyanic poison of the other cat, I think that there is contradiction in the quantum description (some simpler system could be created).

The modal logic, if I understand the concepts, seem to extend the Peano arithmetic to the real number, where the Godel's incompletess theorem is not valid.

Dear Akinbo,

"Hence your logical poser how then can photon exist?"

Well, this is a key point that my dimensional theory addresses and I don't think I could adequately summarize it in this small space.

" Since you say it is not a problem, what explanation have you heard from SR relativists?"

I have heard none. Most relativists deny that there is a problem because they say that since no spacetime observer can transform to a photon frame, the question makes no sense. Once I had the opportunity to personally ask Jakob Bekenstein, one of the foremost living relativists in the world, what he thought of this, and he immediately brushed it off by saying "That's just philosophy".

Of course, all these maneuvers are (probably subconscious) moves to cover up the fact that they don't have a good (or, really, any) answer: You *can* make sense out of statements about photon frames simply by referring to them as frames to which no spacetime observer can transform and, since the photon existence paradox involves quantities of space and time it is *not* just philosophy.

I do have an answer, but it does not fit the current worldview, but I have dedicated my efforts (and really, at this point, my life) to changing this.

Your question about the change of lightspeed in media has to take into account that this slowing is only an averaging while the photon is absorbed and the re-emitted many times between the atoms of the medium. As such, it has no bearing on the fundamental issues involved because in between the absorption and emission events, it still travels at c.

Best,

Armin

"That is light speed is BOTH wavelength X frequency AND distance covered by waveform in one second."

Well, like I said, in most cases the distinction does not matter, and you cannot expect an introductory physics text to seriously attempt to teach nuances like this at the frontiers of our knowledge.

But you are welcome to hold whatever opinion you wish, I simply told you how I think about the issue.

Best,

Armin

Dear Domenico,

Thank you for reading my essay and for your comments. Yes, disinterest is one of the greatest guarantors of freedom (and power, I might add).

If I am understanding your comment about my essay correctly, you have some skepticism about the consistency of standard quantum mechanics. If this is really the case, then I am very surprised by your nonchalance in giving a possible counter example. Proving quantum mechanics inconsistent would seem to be a an extraordinarily huge deal! Is that some more of that disinterest at work?

Although it might be possible, I am not aware of any mechanism by which modal logic permits one to extend the natural numbers to the reals. I use the modality to capture a distinction that cannot be expressed in the language of ordirnary classical logic.

Thanks again for your comments, and if you have any more thoughts about my essay, feel free to express them to me.

Best wishes,

Armin

Hi Armin,

I responded to your "kind and heartwarming" comments regarding my Digital Physics movie essay in the discussion forum on my page. I also had some thoughts on your Copenhagen Interpretation youtube video which I included in my response.

Thanks for reading my essay and your interest in the movie! Your FQXi essay, as opposed to more of your youtube videos, will be the next thing I will be taking a look at and commenting on.

Thanks again,

Jon

    Dear Armin,

    Thanks for starting at this point, especially as some "local realists" tend avoid it.

    I trust we agree that all Nature's extant objects have actual and potential properties?

    We then note: Bohr says, "the result of a 'measurement' (with scare quotes) does not in general reveal some pre-existing property." Thus, if I send you a randomly polarised particle, its interaction (without scare quotes) with your polarising apparatus will produce (P>0) a new orientation of polarisation; which is NOT the same as revealing a pre-existing one. Rather

    ACTUAL POTENTIAL -> INTERACTION -> NEW ACTUAL NEW POTENTIAL.

    This is my reason for linking Bohr's view here (not elsewhere) to your own.

    BUT now we must clean up these intuitive ideas MATHEMATICALLY.

    So, taking care with Nature, we hold a consequence of realism to be: 'At all times, the set of actual properties possessed by a system (here, particle plus apparatus)* fully determines all relevant probabilities of potential properties of the system.' See paragraph #2.1, etc., in my essay.

    * Including my sister's cat in the system if it might be relevant!

    Armin, in closing, and subject to some refinements, I trust we are close to agreement here? More questions, please, if we are not.

    With best regards; Gordon Watson: Essay Forum. Essay Only.

    Dear Armin,

    Thanks for the exchange. It gives me a kind of pleasure when my "opponents", wriggle and wreathe trying to explain a question in a convoluted kind of way because of a belief that they must not let go a dogma they are holding on to. When I say opponent, I mean it in a friendly way.

    An example of this wriggling is that: "the relation, distance travelled/ time taken does not apply to light speed"! Roemer, Galileo, Newton, Maxwell would probably convulse in their graves :)

    Then, in addition "light IS NOT something that is traveling in space", "photons do not have definite trajectories", "you cannot apply the notion of distance per time to the speed associated with their "travel".

    This new doctrine is thus meant to replace what we know about the rectilinear propagation of light, how light is focused by a lens at a focal point without any probability that the focal point will change, etc.

    So as not to cause a distraction from your essay, may I just ask one more question and we can continue this outside your essay forum.

    Given a light source, e.g. a pulsar say 10^3 light seconds away, and sending out pulses once every 60 seconds, such that the moment a pulse is detected, another is already emitted and on on its way and would be detected also after 60 seconds. So we have detections every 60 seconds. Now if, on detecting a pulse, the observer moves towards the next incoming pulse, can he reduce the detection time to 59 seconds? Again, if on detection, the observer moves away from the already incoming and in-flight photon, can he delay the detection time to 61 seconds?

    Why I frame the question this way is that the fundamental issues under contention between Galilean relativity and SR are easily mixed up or swept under the carpet, the same way Bekenstein has swept your photon existence paradox under the carpet.

    Your answer to these framed question will indicate whether you appreciate what SR doctrine really means to physics and what is under contention. At your free time crosscheck that the Einstein quote I send is correct (about the validity of SR depending on earth motion not influencing optical phenomena).

    All the best,

    Akinbo

    *If you don't mind can you find any fault in the math used by Gordon Watson. You are better than me at math. I note you have made some non-mathematical comments.

    Dear Armin,

    I also belief, that the distinction between actuality and possibility is needed to give a consistent interpretation of quantum mechanics. In my essay - following Carl Friedrich von Weizsäcker - the time structure is essential. The past being factual (something has happened or not), the future being possible. Mathematics is then the imagination of possible acts in the future, which would lead to a constructivistic justification of mathematics. What role plays time in your theory?

    I'd would be happy you could read my essay and comment on it.

    Many thanks

    Luca

      Hi Akinbo,

      Before I respond to your comments, I have a question:

      Above you gave a an elementary textbook definition of wavelength as the distance between two successive waveforms. Am I correct in believing that you hold this definition to be exact? If not why not?

      Armin

      Hi Armin,

      I must admit, learning a new form of logic is difficult, but I still want to ask you some questions even though I did not grasp all of your essay.

      Do you think in your model where you consider a quantum 2-D object which has the potential to become a 3-D object (instead of a 3-D object with one dimension consisting of every possible value) you could still account for interference patterns as seen in the double slit experiment?

      Your talk about our freedom to choose consistent axiom systems made me think about how certain propositions may not be provable in certain axiom systems, but may be provable in others. Have you seen Stephen Wolfram's work where he talks about enumerating different axiom systems and showing what theorems are provable under each? There's a lot of overlap in what theorems are provable in each consistent axiom system, but there are still some differences. How do you think this relates to your view that the "freedom to choose one's axioms coupled with the requirement of consistency should naturally lead us to expect mathematics to be unreasonably effective in modeling reality, but that this unreasonable effectiveness only exists, as it were, as an actualizability until human imagination transforms (parts of) mathematics into an actually effective model of reality."?

      You talk of ZFC (and your ZFCD)... Do you think the axiom of choice is reasonable axiom in a system that contains real numbers which are uncomputable? How could one actually choose one of these uncomputable reals, if they cannot be specified in a finite way. Unlike computable real numbers like pi and e, most real numbers cannot be referred to in an algorithmic way because they have uncompressible information, so therefore there is no finite way to refer to them. Maybe this is where your thoughts on "imagination" comes in?

      Also, is ZFCD trying to be a meta-mathematical theory that tries to explore the ramifications of an incomplete system being consistently extended, from a general perspective?

      Is what you describe as "pro-actually" a form of determinism, where what you define as "actualizably" a more probabilistic view of the future? How would you view the question of whether a 10,000 digit number was prime or not from this perspective?

      You said:

      "Thus, the context can be interpreted as a sample space and the measure associated with the "collapse" of actualizabilities (i.e emergence of an actual outcome) in the absence of an e-spec is just what we call probability. This measure is different from non-probabilistic measures because it is over a set in the outer domain, and thereby captures the concept of probability."

      Is this related to the idea that something may be considered probabilistic until a proper fully-predictive theory is found? Is it related to the mathematical fact that we don't know if we are up against a true and unprovable statement or if we just haven't done enough searching to find a proof? Is something that is undecidable, probabilistic from this point of view? Are you familiar with Gregory Chaitin's omega constant?

      I think you might have some interest in some of the questions I posed at the end of my essay. Somehow many of them seem very relevant to your work. Please consider taking a crack at answering one of them.

      Thanks,

      Jon

        Dear Jon.

        Thank you for your kind remarks, I see that you asked me below many excellent questions. I will respond to them, but because my response will be a long one, I ask for a little time.

        Best,

        Armin

        Dear Luca,

        Thank you for your comments, I will leave some remarks on your site as well.

        In answer to your questions, time plays multiple roles in my framework. this manifests itself among other things in the following:

        1. There is a semantic duality between actualizability in the present world and actuality in a possible future worlds. For that reason my logical operators could also be regarded as temporal modal operators.

        2. The frame work explains quantum phenomena in terms of the absence of a characterization in terms of a (spacetime) coordinate time.

        3. The axiom takes us from the absence of this association to a superposition of two time directionalities, thereby connecting it both with the Born Rule and the fact that the differential equation that gives the time-evolution of quantum states (i.e. the Schroedinger equation) is time symmetric.

        There are other roles for time which I cannot get into actually talking about the physics that this mathematical framework is meant to support, but in short, the concept of time is essential.

        Thank you and best wishes,

        Armin

        Dear Armin,

        You commented upon my paper so early in the process that I've been under the impression that I had read your essay and commented on it. I see that is not the case. As you've recently returned to offer valuable suggestions, I thank you for those and offer my views on your essay.

        You begin by extolling the freedom to choose one's starting assumptions as a great virtue of mathematics, limited only by consistency. You then note that the ZFC is generally regarded today as the foundation of mathematics, yet it is not known with absolute certainty that it is itself consistent.

        Your own contribution, which you label tentative, is based in "free logic" which, as I understand it, deals with the context of potentiality 'surrounding' the inner logic of things that 'exist', with the key operators being: 'Possibly', 'Actually', and 'Necessarily'. Based on these you formulate the Axis of Default Specification intended to extend the ZFC to handle "incompleteness".

        Your first example is designed to illustrate the use of these terms leading to an "emergence specification" which

        "Collapses" the superposition of actualizability to permit the emergence of the actual element,"

        which of course is the relation to the "quantum mechanics" in the title of your essay, and you say

        "The measure associated with the "collapse" of actualizability ... is ... probability."

        You then discuss contextuality in the context of the Peres-Mermin Magic Square which [as I understand it] is a special case of Peres table 6-1 [page 167] of 'Actual and hypothetical outcomes of N quantum tests", in which he claims that none of the possible 'filled in tables' obey the cosine correlation. He then [page 197] proves the Kochen-Specker theorem using 33 vectors in R^3.

        You note "the quantum mechanical situation invoking commuting spin operators" involves e-specs. As I develop these operators in my endnotes [and in more detail in my reference [2]] it is clear that this idealization of spin as a 'qubit' or two-state system leads to non-intuitive results and much of the mysticism of QM is traceable to this idealization.

        As QM is based on analysis of outputs, and a "good" experiment is generally one with discrete output states, the apparent fact that all measurements based on constant magnetic field tend to satisfy this "two-state" requirement is, in some respects, a "self-licking ice cream cone".

        My essay, of course, asks what happens when this overly simple characterization of spin is loosened. You recall that "the quantum state is a superposition state" which is also fascinating, given Matt Leifer's contention (also quoted in my endnotes) that, in 2015, we don't know what a quantum state is, whether it is ontological or epistemological. Yet, in our math formulas, we are free to superimpose whatever they are! And then to talk about the "collapse" of the superposition.

        You state the current consensus, that "the quantum correlations between the particles go beyond what is possible in any classical arrangement, and this was proven in a theorem by Bell."

        Of course my essay claims that Bell's "proof" is a mathematio-logical proof based on over-simplified physics. Even his basic model, before getting into the proof, is contradictory, as he assumes a constant field which yields zero, while he requires ±1 results. But you know this.

        In short, given the false conclusions (in my opinion) of the Bell theorem, you have performed an admirable analysis of the logic necessary to support or explain these false conclusions.

        You comment on my thread that to seriously consider my argument, one must be willing to question the 90 year interpretation of Stern-Gerlach. Yes indeed. The current state of confusion in quantum mechanics is such that, if after almost a century the early ideas have not yet led to clarity [I don't consider Kochen-Specker's 33-ray proof in any way 'clear', with respect to physical reality] it may well be time to revisit both the experiments, with century newer technology, and the early ideas and concepts of spin -- essentially unchanged since Goudsmit and Uhlenbeck.

        Finally, as you end your essay with a discussion of the Feynman path integral, the basis of which is the progression from state n-1 to state n [see your theorem, post equation 6 on page 8] I would call your attention to the second diagram on page 10 in my essay which links the generalized automata-representation I develop in The Automatic Theory of Physics to a Feynman quantum field theory kernel, and show the equivalence of the "next-state-address" in the automata to "potential" in standard physics. This is a novel identification that you may or may not find interesting.

        My very best regards,

        Edwin Eugene Klingman

        Hello Armin,

        I smell a 'dialectic' bait meant to entrap me and I am in a dilemma whether to swallow the bait or not :)

        I was therefore forced to Google "wavelength" and came up with these:

        *Wavelength is the distance between identical points in the adjacent cycles of a waveform signal propagated in space or along a wire.

        *In physics, the wavelength of a sinusoidal wave is the spatial period of the wave-- the distance over which the wave's shape repeats,[1] and the inverse of the spatial frequency.

        Asking whether I hold this definition to be exact or not will certainly take us into debate whether light is wave or particle or both. It would also take us into whether a medium of propagation is present or not. While not shying away from debating those contentious territories, it would becloud the fundamental basis for the validity of SR where we started this discussion from. To repeat;

        Einstein himself says, "But ALL experiments (without exception) have shown that... optical phenomena, relatively to the earth as the body of reference, ARE NOT influenced by the translational velocity of the earth...". Do you agree?

        Now, if your only condition to answer the question is my response, then I confirm that to almost all intents and purposes I hold the definition to be exact!

        Regards,

        Akinbo

        *In addition to the links on this thread, I thought I linked Herbert Dingle's book but I obviously must have done so elsewhere. SCIENCE At the Crossroads. Read these links critically and you will understand my excitement about photon existence paradox and the lack of interest by the establishment in your paradox.

        Hi Akinbo,

        Thanks for your reply, the other definitions of wavelength you gave above will do just as well. Now, just one more question: do you accept the non-commutation relations of quantum mechanics (or, equivalently, the Heisenberg uncertainty principle)? Note that if you don't, then that means that you reject QM.

        Best,

        Armin

        Armin,

        You are a veritable and formidable opponent. Perhaps, you should have been invited to Copenhagen when Bohr and Einstein were debating...

        I cannot swallow what non-commutation relations of QM, to the extent that QM is valid ONLY IF special relativity is valid. So yes, I reject the version of QM that is founded on SR. The experimental successes of QM must therefore have alternative explanations. There can be more than one explanation for an experimental result with one of them being the eventually correct answer.

        Read, Pentcho's latest post on Faster than Light concerning what the postulate of SR we are finding contentious means.

        Regards,

        Akinbo

        Dear Akinbo,

        Thank you for your response. If I understand you correctly, you say that you reject any parts of quantum mechanics that are founded on special relativity, but you left it open whether you accept those parts that are not founded on SR. I can assure you that on the currently accepted view the non-commutation relations (or equivalently, the Heisenberg uncertainty principle) have absolutely nothing to do with SR. So, do you accept them or not? (I remind you that these lie at the heart of QM, so if you reject them, you are not just rejecting parts of QM, but all of it.)

        Best,

        Armin

        Dear Gordon,

        Thank you for your explanation. I think you have misinterpreted Bohr's statement. At any rate, that doesn't matter, because what is relevant is whether your view and mine agree, and unfortunately, it seems that there are some major differences. It already begins with your statement: "if I send you a randomly polarised particle..."

        I thought from my essay it would have been obvious that I am pursuing the interpretation according to which there is no particle before the measurement event. And if there is no particle, there is no particle property (which I believe is what Bohr's statement amounts to). There is nothing that is polarised, whether randomly or not.

        From my point of view, the particle "comes into existence" as an actual spacetime object upon the interaction with the apparatus we call a "measurement", and the state of the actual spacetime system during the measurement (particle plus apparatus) is determined by the relative contribution of all the actualizabilities associated with the underlying object described by the incomplete spacetime vector, and these contributions map the actualizabilities to the concept of a probability amplitude.

        So, to see whether our views agree, you need to just answer this question: In these correlation experiments, are there according to your theory particles between measurements or not? My impression is that there are, and this would be consistent with the fact that you call your theory "realist". However, it would be inconsistent with what I am working on.

        Best wishes,

        Armin